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Author Topic: Magnetic Couple Questions - Boyfriend +, I'm -  (Read 2664 times)

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Offline magneticnegative26

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  • Posts: 8
Magnetic Couple Questions - Boyfriend +, I'm -
« on: January 29, 2013, 09:29:03 PM »
Hi everyone,

My boyfriend tested positive four months after we started dating.  I'm not going to go into the turmoil and soul-searching surrounding that incidence, but I've stood by him throughout and we're pulling through.  We've been together for nine months and he's the love of my life.  I've never been happier in a relationship, and I feel both sexually and emotionally fulfilled.  Life is great - so for all of those posting that have just found themselves in this situation, you can be in a happy magnetic relationship, too.   

I have a couple of questions, though, for other magnetic couples out there.  These forums have really helped me deal with what are non-risks that arise when we live together - a little semen falls on the cut of my arm, I accidentally use his toothbrush - i.e. things that are not worth worrying about.

My b/f is undetectable, and has been taking Atripla for five months.  I wanted to know a couple of things about risks, both for him and for me.  Our doctor told us that all raw meats should be avoided - is this something he has to follow to the letter of the law?  Like, if we're invited from my work to go out for sushi, can he not have an occasional meal?  Or is this something that affects people with more advanced HIV/AIDS or detectable viral loads?  I'd just like some peace of mind for him that it's occasionally fine, but perhaps it's not?

I currently perform unprotected oral sex on him, but he doesn't cum in my mouth.  We also have anal sex with protection, but he pulls out before cumming.  I am thinking about going on Truvada next month, though our disease specialist doctor doesn't think it's really that necessary, since we're so safe and he has an UD viral load.

In terms of sex practices, I'd like to be able to start swallowing his cum.  If I'm on Truvada, is this a risk that other magnetic couples out there take and can share?   I'd also like for him to feel comfortable cumming inside of me while he is wearing protection.  Are there others who do this, even without the negative partner being on Truvada?

I've read about people who take Truvada with their UD partner and have bareback sex because the risk is so low... and while I'm not itching for that, are there people out there that do that? 

Basically, it seems from the Swiss study that bareback sex isn't really a risk for monogamous couples where the poz partner has been UD for at least six months and neither has an STI - so if I were to add Truvada to my regimen, would swallowing cum be a negligible risk?

I really appreciate any advice.  I get what doctors say - there's always a risk, I have to set my own boundaries - but ultimately I feel like I can't get a grasp on the real statistical risk.  I could really use some advice from people who are in the same situation, or know people in the same situation.  Our sex life is important to us, and I would like to be able to swallow his cum and, perhaps eventually, bareback again, but neither of us wants to take any real risks.  Is a UD viral load (he's on Atripla and is perfectly consistent with taking it) w/ Truvada for the negative partner enough?

Thanks so much for your help.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Magnetic Couple Questions - Boyfriend +, I'm -
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2013, 12:05:45 AM »
Honestly, I would write you a longer post, but my fiance put together a banging bevvy of birthday parties these last few days, and I am going to be off my game for a while.

Let me just say this:

Your BF is undetectable. Saliva contains over a DOZEN identified elements that neutralize HIV and render it inert.

Even if your BF was not UD, your risk was minimal if it exists at all. Three separate serodiscordant couples' studies have yet to show a single infection due to oral sex. That is three studies, two continents, ten, five and three years in duration. And a wide array of treatment options and viral loads. It's just never been steadily quantified outside the horrific soft science of patient report.

He is UD, and you are on Truvada. You are fine to have whatever sex you want, and condoms are optional.

I am in a monogamous relationship with my fiance. I am UD. He is negative. We have decided to forego condoms. I am bottom, he is top. He has yet to perform oral on me to completion, but that's mostly timing and opportunity.

While I absolutely don't recommend this choice for people who have multiple sexual partners, two people in an exclusive relationship need to know the facts, and the facts are simple. You are more likely to get it by lightning than to get HIV from having sex with a person with an UD VL. Add Truvada to the mix and hell, you are basically buletproof.

This is 20 years of HIV and 15 years of research and advocacy talking. Take as you wish with whatever grains of salt suit you.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline oksikoko

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  • Writing the congressman again
Re: Magnetic Couple Questions - Boyfriend +, I'm -
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2013, 09:35:31 AM »
Hey, Magnetic. :)

Before I was positive, I dated and slept with positive guys, pretty much exclusively and avoided negative guys as romantic or whatever partners if I could help it. I'm not (or rather, wasn't) a chaser, but I've felt that HIV was an inevitability for me pretty much since I was 8 years old, and by the time I was approaching 30, the fear of it was worse than the disease itself, and I just decided to stop running, to "stop worrying and love the bomb" so to speak.

I don't regret that at all, even though I'm now positive. From the time I made that decision until the time I was positive I went through, oh, 7-8 years, a couple of positive boyfriends, maybe 1 or 2 (hahahaha) casual partners, and exactly 0 condoms. So, yeah, not every encounter with a positive person leads to infection. I suspect I'm positive via a rather less, um, glamorous route than most here, but only God knows for sure, and that's neither here nor there.

However, since you asked for advice: I personally think you're playing with fire. It's OK to play with fire, but only if you're sure that you're OK with the possibility of getting burned.

Let me back off the metaphor and speak plainly: If you're really OK with the possibility that you may become positive, and if you feel comfortable taking certain risks, that's one thing. But if you're doing it thinking that it's really unlikely that you'll become positive while fearing it in the back of your head, you might want to give it some more thought before jumping in.

I know 1 person who did get infected via oral sex, because I was there at the time, and all he had was oral sex. Even though a lot of people seem to think it's 100% safe, it's not. It's safER. Your post had some phrasings (please forgive me if I'm cutting into the subtext too much) like "isn't really a risk". It sounds like you're hedging there. I want to be really clear on this: it *is* a risk. There's no such thing as "isn't really a risk". There's just more and less risk.

I don't mean to discourage you, and I think it's great that you're giving this the thought it deserves and are not afraid to ask questions in the right places. You sound pretty level-headed, and you're an adult. If you stay negative, great, you'll be alright. If you end up positive, I'm sure there will be people on this board to ask questions of, and you'll be alright. Just be careful, OK? ;)

Code: [Select]
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (?) off treatment ☣ CD4 (?) off treatment
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

If no one complains, nothing will ever change.

Offline magneticnegative26

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  • Posts: 8
Re: Magnetic Couple Questions - Boyfriend +, I'm -
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2013, 03:45:11 PM »
Hey Oksikoko,

Thanks for the response.

I feel like I have two vastly different responses, however, and could really use the input of others.  Would you say I'm playing with fire if I'm on Truvada, he's on Atripla and undetectable, we have protected sex, and I occasionally suck his dick after he's wiped all of his cum off of it?

That's basically where we are now... (well, I'm about to go on Atripla, so I've been sucking his dick after he's wiped off cum, but he is UD) - but if you think that my acquisition of the virus is inevitable, even with these precautions - that seriously worries me.  Or, were you suggesting it if we were having unprotected sex? 

Also, were you on Truvada when you acquired the virus?  I only ask because it is supposed to be pretty effective if taken consistently, and as the previous poster mentioned, if he's also UD, I'd think I were almost totally safe.

Are there other serodiscordant couples who have had long relationships without transmission?  Does the negative partner feel it's inevitable?

I love my boyfriend, and I intend to be with him for a very long time, but I definitely do not intend to become positive if I can help it (not because I think it's an inevitably shorter or more challenging life, but because it comes with its own costs and nuisances).  So I would love to get some clarity on this issue from you, and others.

Thanks again for your thoughtful and personal response.  I do appreciate all insights.

Offline buginme2

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  • Posts: 2,985
Re: Magnetic Couple Questions - Boyfriend +, I'm -
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2013, 04:06:14 PM »
Hey Oksikoko,

Thanks for the response.

I feel like I have two vastly different responses, however, and could really use the input of others.  Would you say I'm playing with fire if I'm on Truvada, he's on Atripla and undetectable, we have protected sex, and I occasionally suck his dick after he's wiped all of his cum off of it?

That's basically where we are now... (well, I'm about to go on Atripla, so I've been sucking his dick after he's wiped off cum, but he is UD) - but if you think that my acquisition of the virus is inevitable, even with these precautions - that seriously worries me.  Or, were you suggesting it if we were having unprotected sex? 

Also, were you on Truvada when you acquired the virus?  I only ask because it is supposed to be pretty effective if taken consistently, and as the previous poster mentioned, if he's also UD, I'd think I were almost totally safe.

Are there other serodiscordant couples who have had long relationships without transmission?  Does the negative partner feel it's inevitable?

I love my boyfriend, and I intend to be with him for a very long time, but I definitely do not intend to become positive if I can help it (not because I think it's an inevitably shorter or more challenging life, but because it comes with its own costs and nuisances).  So I would love to get some clarity on this issue from you, and others.

Thanks again for your thoughtful and personal response.  I do appreciate all insights.

I'm positive and my partner is negative.  We have been togther for over 5 years.

If your partner is undetectable on medication for over 6 months AND neither of you have any other STD's (its important that both of you are screened for STD's on a regular basis, especially if y'all have an open relationship) then the risk of transmission is low/approaching zero. If you are also taking Truvada a PrEP, then the risk is even lower. 

You seem to have a bit of anxiety regarding transmission.  I can tell you just from my own experience that I worry about it 1000 times more than my partner does.  One thing that helped him (and I), was that when I was initially diagnosed he came with me to my HIV doc appointments.  That way he could learn just as I did. 

Also, the medical center I go to set him up to see an Internal Medicine doctor that also specializes in treating HIV patients.  That way, his doctor is aware that his partner is positive and they can discuss things in private about HIV.  That helped alleviate those begining worries. 

There are a lot of people who are in relationships with someone of the oppositive status.  It doesnt take all that much effort to prevent transmission. 
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 04:14:31 PM by buginme2 »

Offline oksikoko

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  • Posts: 680
  • Writing the congressman again
Re: Magnetic Couple Questions - Boyfriend +, I'm -
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2013, 04:42:23 PM »
Would you say I'm playing with fire if I'm on Truvada, he's on Atripla and undetectable, we have protected sex, and I occasionally suck his dick after he's wiped all of his cum off of it?

Yeah, but that's a pretty low flame there. ;) My "playing with fire" comment was directed more at your desire to ramp it up, specifically with the oral sex and exchange of body fluids.

but if you think that my acquisition of the virus is inevitable, even with these precautions - that seriously worries me.  Or, were you suggesting it if we were having unprotected sex? 

I don't think it's inevitable for you. I felt it was inevitable for me. I have my own history with this thing, and it wouldn't really be fair to apply to you. ;)  I think having unprotected sex with an HIV+ person is risky. I'm aware of recent studies about Truvada and serodiscordancy, the one from China in particular. It was a study of heterosexual couples, though we can probably assume similar results for MSM. The risk was shown to be reduced. Not 0. It was reduced a lot in fact, but it's still not 0. Whether or not you're OK with the risk that remains is up to you and your boyfriend. Here's a reputable article with the numbers. Impressive.
http://www.aidsmap.com/Real-world-evidence-shows-that-antiretroviral-therapy-reduces-risk-of-HIV-transmission-in-heterosexual-couples/page/2557243/

Also, were you on Truvada when you acquired the virus?  I only ask because it is supposed to be pretty effective if taken consistently, and as the previous poster mentioned, if he's also UD, I'd think I were almost totally safe.

Nope. It became available the same month I became aware I was positive. I wouldn't have taken it anyway. If I had been really concerned about seroconverting, I would have reduced my risk factors (drastically) before taking such a strong drug for prophylactic reasons. Truvada (its constituent components anyway) are part of my current ART. I'm not complaining, per se, but yeah, I'd rather not have to take it if I didn't have to.

And again you said something that struck me: "I'd think I were almost totally safe." Yeah, you would probably be almost totally safe. Are you OK with probably being almost totally safe? ;) I was OK with far riskier things, so please don't think I'm pushing an agenda beyond hoping you make as informed a decision as possible.

Are there other serodiscordant couples who have had long relationships without transmission?  Does the negative partner feel it's inevitable?

Don't get too hung up on my feelings about inevitability. Like I said, that was about me personally, and I felt it years before I even decided to have sex. It goes way back to the days when we thought mosquitoes could pass it from person to person. I'm not a paragon of mental clarity, even on my best days, if you know what I mean. ;)

Good luck!
Code: [Select]
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (?) off treatment ☣ CD4 (?) off treatment
2013-10-03:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1105
2013-05-23:                ☣ VL (=) undetectable ☣ CD4 (-) 945
2013-02-25:                ☣ VL (-) undetectable ☣ CD4 (+) 1123
2012-12-16: Enter Stribild
2012-11-20: HIV+           ☣ VL (→) 132,683      ☣ CD4 (→) 920
2012-04-01: HIV-
Dates in this signature file conform to ISO 8601. ;-)

If no one complains, nothing will ever change.

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,766
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Magnetic Couple Questions - Boyfriend +, I'm -
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2013, 05:03:37 PM »
magneticnegative26
I believe you are throwing too many variables into your considerations.

1) There are the practices, and risks, and non risks of your sex life going forward with him undetectable, and you NOT on truvada.

2) Then there are the practices, and risks, and non risks, of your sex life with you ON truvada.

I don't see the benefit of going on Truvada if you are going to continue having intercourse with a condom.  Truvada is a drug, and besides that, its expensive... What's the point?   

I can't imagine a doctor prescribing you Truvada so that you can continue having sex with condoms, but maybe want some oral play with cum or precum.

Also, you seem overly fearful of him shooting in the condom.... Have you had some history with condom breaks???  If there ever was one going forward, and you got some jiz in you, you should have already decided on the game plan.  I would say it would be a crap shoot if a doctor would give you post-exposure Pep if your bf is undetectable, in any event. Though I guess it would be your choice...  Why not discuss this with your bf's doc.  You could, for example, already have the supply, just in case....  But yeah, once you decided to take the PEP, you'd have to finish the course.

________

On the other hand, if you decide to take the Truvada, why wouldn't you just then do whatever you want, no holds barred....

_______

Taking Truvada as prevention just in case of a very unlikely condom break, during protected sex with an undetectable person, or for oral play with undetectable person, seems.....  a bit much.... 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline jkinatl2

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  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: Magnetic Couple Questions - Boyfriend +, I'm -
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2013, 06:55:00 PM »
Hey Oksikoko,

Thanks for the response.

I feel like I have two vastly different responses, however, and could really use the input of others.  Would you say I'm playing with fire if I'm on Truvada, he's on Atripla and undetectable, we have protected sex, and I occasionally suck his dick after he's wiped all of his cum off of it?

Just wanted to be clear. I have beena moderator in the AM I INFECTED forum for ten years (finally got the official Hat this month) and have answered thousands of risk assessments.

I also ran a non profit HIV awareness and safer sex Organization from 1994-2001. Been doing counseling in between, of course, and had a hand in redesigning the LESSONS of this site as regards HIV transmission.

I base my opinions on verified science, which I will be happy to cite.

Here are the facts about serodiscordant sex:

A) Nothing in the universe is 100% safe, except maybe sex with your hand. That is why ALL these practices are canned "safer sex."

There is absolutely no reason for a person with a low/UD viral load to worry that his semen will infect via oral sex. Notwithstanding the three serodiscordant couples' studies in which couples used condoms for penetrative anal and caginal sex, but no barrier at all for oral sex of any variety, and no couples were infected. This is through threestudies involving hundreds of couples and ranging from three. five, to ten years' strong.

Oral sex (giving fellatio) is NOT a real risk for HIV. And with an undetectable viral load that risk is essentially zero. IN addition to the dozen identified elements in saliva which neutralize HIV, a partner on meds is NOT going to have significant, viable viral particles in his semen

If you are using Truvada on top of that, there is no real reason for you to use condoms at all for sex, oral or anal. That's the technique straight couples use in order to conceive, yet somehow gay men are still asked to fear the same recommendations.

Please do not believe the hype, the fear, the stigma, and the use of anecdote as data. If real information matters to you, follow the science, not the rhetoric.

Treatment as prevention works. It works easily as well as condom use.







I think that further study is necessary before
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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