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Author Topic: risk of infection from nuru massage  (Read 6697 times)

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Offline paulthomas266

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risk of infection from nuru massage
« on: January 18, 2013, 03:13:10 PM »
Hello to all users. I would particularly like to thank in advance for the knowledgeable forum members on this issue. Thank you so much for taking your time assessing my potential exposure to HIV. At other forums many members have said I had zero risk but I am in paranoia as I have been reading lots of things in google and recently a friend of mine( a cardiologist) told me that I might have had a slim risk. I have been constantly told that “HIV is transmitted by;
Unprotected penetrative anal and/or vaginal sex /Sharing works with other IV drug abusers /Mother to child”. However I am afraid I might be an exception to these situations and a rare case of transmission.

In my case there was no genital, oral contact nor vaginal intercourse. My case involved a body to body massage, called nuru massage. I was laying down naked with my penis on a towel, my back was facing up. She spread an odorless gel(which I suppose that is similar in composition to medical gels as the used for ultrasound examination) all over my back and anus. Then she spread this gel on her breasts and trunk and belly and she started the massage. I have noticed that she always had her underwear on.
The thing is that for most of the massage, which was like 50minutes she was slowly moving back and forth on my back (from my neck to my legs). The first 30 minutes were alright. After a while I started noticing some small itching/ little abrasion every time she was sliding all the way up, specifically in my intergluteal cleft(natal cleft). I don’t know if this could be an anal fissure, or a small sore that opened. But sometimes I feel the same thing on this natal cleft after I defecate hard stools and usually when I press hard with a tissue blood does not come out, but if I press lots of times sometimes it does in a tiny tiny drop(almost unnoticeable to the naked eye) So maybe it s a very very small wound or sore.
I don’t know exactly if she was sliding on that area with her belly or vagina, but I could feel it seemed to be rough and dry(gel seemed to have dried)
I am sure I no external piles nor broken skin outside anus. I am  afraid I had this possible anal fissure/small cut, wound, sore in my intergluteal cleft. In case of an anal fissure I would be in risk of exposure to HIV?
I went to medhelp.org and asked about this situation and about her vaginal secretions possibly being in contact with this small wound. Their experts, such as Teak and Rainlover71 and Joggen replied back and stated that at no time was I at risk of contracting HIV, also stating that “HIV is unable to reproduce outside its living host (unlike many bacteria or fungi, which may do so under suitable conditions), except under laboratory conditions; therefore, it does not spread or maintain infectiousness outside its host.”
I asked for Doctor Edward W. Hook´s advice and he told me that this was a no risk situation and said that HIV is not transmitted through clothing (i.e. underwear) no matter how wet that underwear gets with genital secretions.
As you can see I only asked about vaginal secretions to DR Edward Hook, I forgot to ask him to consider the possibility of the masseuse being having vaginal bleeding from her period.
Anyway, about10 weeks after this “ possible exposure” I had a cold and had some fever for 2 days, with maximum temperature of 37.4 degrees celsius- 99.3 fahrenheit. My cardiologist friend told me ARS can occur up to three months and even later after possible exposures.
FIRST Question: what I had is consistent with ARS?
 This friend was the one who also set my anxiety off again, saying that if she had only vaginal fluids I would never be at risk but if she had some blood mixed on her vaginal fluids and if these fluids came into contact with the anus or an anal fissure or mucous membranes, then I could have been at risk. He also told me that if she was bleeding from her vagina(if she was on menstruation) it could go through her panties and put me at risk. My encounter was at 18pm. I don´t think she could have been bleeding profusely as I never saw blood on my body after the massage.
But can you please please suppose that she  was bleeding a littlefrom her vagina.
SECOND Question: Would I be at risk? Maybe when she was sliding near the intergluteal cleft area, it could have been her belly /abdomen which was dry  30 minutes after  applying the gel on beginning of massage. I did not see her bleeding profusely, but there was like poor lighting there(romantic lighting). What if she had small wounds on her belly?

 THIRD Question: Does the fact that she was wearing panties make things better for me, even if she was in her menstruation and bleeding) and less likely to contract the virus?
Recently I went back to medhelp and reopened the discussion I had started  with the possibility that maybe she was in menstruation or that maybe she was bleeding a bit and one member told me the following:
“You would not have been at risk even if she was actively bleeding and you were covered in blood, and blood got in your anus. HIV is not infectious outside the body as you were already told. When we give you advice it's up to you to be able to use reasoning to apply it rather than let friends that are not educated in HIV set your anxiety off with incorrect information.”
FOURTH Question: If blood got in my anus could not it enter my bloodstream through the cut or even enter my anal mucous membrane just like it enters in people having anal sex in the receptive position??????? How can they say that?????

How can this and other expert members on the issue have such a level of certainty on their assessment of my possible exposure?
FIFTH Question: Do you guys share their opinion  Should not I be worried that possibly an actual amount of blood could have been passed to an anal fissure, small cut, wound, open sore, whatever, for more than 20 minutes?????????

All they keep telling me is that: “HIV is transmitted by;
Unprotected penetrative anal and/or vaginal sex
Sharing works with other IV drug abusers
Mother to child

What part of "HIV is not transmitted outside the body don't you understand?"
They are not considering that this a body to body massage where participants try to get the widest possible physical contact. SO if blood was dropping almost directly(either from her panties or from her belly) in my cut in anus for more than 20minutes I could have been exposed through the cut and through the anal mucous membrane, could not I???????
Dr. Robert James Frascino( from thebody.com) and he mentioned that in a body to body massage the only chance of getting HIV is if both people are bleeding profusely and have deep wounds.
SIXTH Question: Do you know of any case where HIV was transmitted through this body to body(nuru) massage????  Any views on this? Has anyone contracted the disease in the way I described?

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: risk of infection from nuru massage
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2013, 03:30:58 PM »
I am very sorry you are so worried.

HIV is a very fragile virus. It simply cannot be transmitted in the manner you are afraid it can.

We are confident in our risk assessments because we follow the science of HIV transmission very closely and very carefully.  I am sorry if your replies on other forums have seemed brusque, but you HAVE been told by what is apparently a small army of people that there is no risk in the activity you describe. None at all.

I fear that my reply will simply be added onto the pile. What can any of us possibly say that so many people have not, to assuage your fear?

If you have a detailed understanding of biology and virology we can certainly jump right into the deep end of the science, of course. But if you read our LESSONS on transmission, you will develop an understanding of the mechanics of the virus as well as it's transmission vectors. That understanding alone can confirm what everyone else has been telling you on other forums.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline paulthomas266

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Re: risk of infection from nuru massage
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2013, 01:19:30 PM »
Dear Jkinatl2,
Thank you so much for your reply. So, you would also give me the same answer I have been given before? You think that what I described was totally a no risk activity?
Can you please let me know if you have ever heard of a possible transmission of HIV  in the manner I have described??? I am asking because I have read on google that some people have been reported to have contracted the disease from a small drop of blood that went into their eyeballs!!! Haven´t I been more(or as) exposed to a possible transmission of the disease as a small drop of blood in the eyeball?

I am going to read very carefully your lessons on transmission.

So you think this was a no risk activity??

Thank you so much for your reassuring reply. I see what you mean, The answers from other forums seemed brusque because of my lack of undertanding of the way the disease is transmitted. Right?

Many thanks for clarifying me on this issue.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: risk of infection from nuru massage
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2013, 04:12:38 PM »
Dear Jkinatl2,
Thank you so much for your reply. So, you would also give me the same answer I have been given before? You think that what I described was totally a no risk activity?
Can you please let me know if you have ever heard of a possible transmission of HIV  in the manner I have described??? I am asking because I have read on google that some people have been reported to have contracted the disease from a small drop of blood that went into their eyeballs!!! Haven´t I been more(or as) exposed to a possible transmission of the disease as a small drop of blood in the eyeball?

I am going to read very carefully your lessons on transmission.

So you think this was a no risk activity??

Thank you so much for your reassuring reply. I see what you mean, The answers from other forums seemed brusque because of my lack of undertanding of the way the disease is transmitted. Right?

Many thanks for clarifying me on this issue.

I agree with all the others who said you had no risk. If at any time you wish to elevate your level of understanding insofar as how HIV works, there are multiple LESSONS on the top of this page that will guide you through an understanding of the virus itself, it's properties, it's modes of transmission and it's many vulnerabilities.

But you had no risk at all.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline paulthomas266

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Re: risk of infection from nuru massage
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2013, 08:54:15 AM »
Dear Jkinatl2,

Thank you so much again for taking your time assessing the huge post which I have written. I am going to read the lessons on transmission on this truly truly useful website.


 


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