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Author Topic: The Morality of PrEP  (Read 935 times)

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Offline Matty the Damned

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The Morality of PrEP
« on: October 23, 2014, 07:44:14 PM »
'sup douchenozzles!

So there's this programme on Australia's equivalent of NPR called 'Background Briefing'. It's like totally investigative journalism and, frankly, it is mad sick.

In fact Matty the Damned was interviewed for a BB programme about 12 months ago. You can find that landmark of reportage here.

It's high brow stuff. I doubt any of you dumb fucks will get it, but hope springs eternal.

Anyway this week's edition of BB is about PrEP which, I am reliably informed, stands for 'Pre Exposure Prophylaxis'. I'm not sure what I think about this. I wonder what other fivers think.

Australia has a pretty good record when it comes to dealing with the bum flu so I thought it meet and proper to bring this broadcast to your attention.

Listen and you might learn something, sheeple!

You can find a preview here: http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/backgroundbriefing/2014-10-26/5829648

If it's geo-blocked, let me know and I'll get you the audio.

MtD

Online Jeff G

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2014, 08:20:50 PM »
I am 100% pro PrEP ... it's the best thing since sliced bread if sliced bread were condoms .

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2014, 08:24:14 PM »
I'm totes pro-PrEP but I'm not totes sure if in a decade it will be of any use other than a handful of circuit queens between San Francisco and Berlin. I mean, like natch I hope I'm wrong and all but I just get these unsavory images in my head and they make me kind of uncomfy.

Toodles.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2014, 09:08:30 PM »
But doesn't PrEP just encourage immorality?

I mean quaffing Truvada like they're Tic-Tacs just gives fags permission to take it raw all the fucking time. AIDS is one thing but what about syphilis?

Or gonorrhea? There are strains of the Clap which are resistant to all current antibiotics.

THANKS OBAMA!

I have discussed this matter with a local brush turkey:



He was not convinced.

MtD

Offline harleymc

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2014, 10:07:17 PM »
No worrie matt, your local brush turkey can't get Prep on PBS. Truvada is only licensed in Australia for Pozzies all the rest is off license and costs hundreds of dollar dollars per month. So I'm not too sure that neggies are going to be popping Truvada like tictacs.


Offline buginme2

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2014, 10:16:43 PM »
I don't get why people have their panties in a bunch about prep, or why it somehow is immoral. 

Isn't more raw sex a good thing? 


Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2014, 10:38:09 PM »
Raw sex should only happen within the loving embrace of a committed relationship fully sanctioned by The Church. Personally I don't think that's what's going on in most cases. I think it's a bunch of immorality and deviancy.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline WillyWump

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2014, 10:56:14 PM »
Raw sex should only happen within the loving embrace of a committed relationship fully sanctioned by The Church.

Or in the bushes in a park.
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2014, 11:05:46 PM »
Or in the bushes in a park.

You can still catch Ebola though, so I'm not going to take any chances where bodily fluids are concerned.

"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline tednlou2

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2014, 11:43:24 PM »
I don't speak Australian, so I couldn't understand what they were saying.  I know a few phrases like, "Shrimp on the barbie."  I think my dad must have lived there at some point.  He says condom the same way they do.  I have always wondered why he prounounces the con and then the dom. 

Seriously, I am pro-PrEP.  Condoms obviously aren't getting the job done, as MSM infections are increasing.  It shows high effaciacy of preventing infections, even with some missed doses.  I do see it as the "male birth control pill."  It will be very interesting to see how much infections decrease, if at all.  Or, whether they increase. 

The problem will likely be guys thinking they just take it right before sex.  I suppose these would be guys/women getting them from friends.  I would think if you went to the doc for a prescription and where you have to have labs done on some schedule, then you would be educated that you don't just take it right before sex.  I am not sure why it is so controversial.  I know Larry Kramer said it was nuts to take "a toxic med."  There has been slut shaming, as was and is the case with the birth control pill.  I wonder what Rush has to say about it.  He called Ms. Fluke a slut.  There are many infected when they believe they are in monogamous relationships.  Great guys go astray.  I think it would be great for couples, who want to ditch the condoms, while also having some protection in case Mr. Right behaves badly. 


Offline tednlou2

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2014, 12:25:08 AM »
Matty,

So you're Matt Mar***?  Didn't know if you wanted your name linked here for google reasons.  I suspect you don't give a shit, but wasn't sure.  She said your name like 20 times.  I assume that was you.  Was this also filmed?  For your first interview, you didn't seem to have any nervousness. 

I'm impressed.  You were very insightful and you didn't call anyone a cunt.  So, there are conservatives and right-wing parties there?  What's that like?  It seems our Conservative party has become totally right-wing.  I suspect your conservatives are much like our conservative democrats??  I got a lesson (albeit brief) on politics there.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2014, 06:29:27 AM »
Matty,

So you're Matt Mar***?  Didn't know if you wanted your name linked here for google reasons.  I suspect you don't give a shit, but wasn't sure.  She said your name like 20 times.  I assume that was you.  Was this also filmed?  For your first interview, you didn't seem to have any nervousness. 

I'm impressed.  You were very insightful and you didn't call anyone a cunt.  So, there are conservatives and right-wing parties there?  What's that like?  It seems our Conservative party has become totally right-wing.  I suspect your conservatives are much like our conservative democrats??  I got a lesson (albeit brief) on politics there.

Yeah Teddles, that's me. I didn't realise my accent was so "Cor fuck me dead you drongo!" broad until I heard that.

Whilst I didn't call anyone a cunt in the RN interview, I did tonight tell the Mayor of Boolaboolabongbong to fuck off.

There's hope for all of us.  8)

Another thing, we don't have "shrimp" down here. We call the fuckers "prawns". I guess Hoges was just trying to speak seppo.

No worrie matt, your local brush turkey can't get Prep on PBS. Truvada is only licensed in Australia for Pozzies all the rest is off license and costs hundreds of dollar dollars per month. So I'm not too sure that neggies are going to be popping Truvada like tictacs.

So if I fuck that turkey pink-on-pink he might qualify?

MtD

Offline bocker3

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2014, 07:53:16 AM »
I didn't call anyone a cunt in the RN interview,
MtD

WHAT??  Who are you and what have you done with our beloved Damned One????

Brother Mike

P.S. Always good to see you on here posting -- your viewpoint is always missed!!! 
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2014, 08:08:33 AM »
WHAT??  Who are you and what have you done with our beloved Damned One????

Brother Mike

P.S. Always good to see you on here posting -- your viewpoint is always missed!!!

Daddy!  :-*

Have a link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhtFdnPLVu4

(Srsly Goderators, would it kill you to install the Aeva Mod?)

MtD

Offline bocker3

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2014, 03:43:12 PM »
Daddy!  :-*

Have a link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhtFdnPLVu4

(Srsly Goderators, would it kill you to install the Aeva Mod?)

MtD

That link is why I miss you when you disappear - you are one of a kind.   :-* :-*

M
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline elf

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2014, 07:27:11 PM »
You can still catch Ebola though

Ebola rhymes with Enola,
and she is so gay  :o

Online Buckmark

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2014, 10:28:39 PM »
When I hear someone say "PrEP" promotes immorality / promiscuity, I have to giggle because it makes me think that gay men are somehow holding back on having sex because they don't have PrEP.  What, the gays are all staying home, becoming teetotalers and learning how to play bridge, simply because they don't have PrEP?  Maybe they are adding saltpeter to their coffee cake?   ::)

Guys (and girls) are going to have sex -- it is how we are wired.  And because it is wired into us as human animals, people won't always think logically, before committing the act, to have the condoms and lube set out on a doily-lined silver tray next to the bed (or the kitchen table, or wherever you are going to have sex).  And honestly, even if you could approach sex logically, how boring would that be?  I think that folks who are slut-shakers are secretly slut-wannabes.

So I am in favor of PrEP.  Cost will be an issue, just as it is for people who need Truvada to control their HIV.  However, Gilead's patents will not last forever.

I love the guy who says he would be quite content to take PrEP for the rest of his life.  I wonder how old he is?  ???

All this saidÖ with all the gays rushing to get married these days, shouldn't the need for PrEP eventually dwindle to the circuit party queens, as Miss P says?   Once you get married, part of the ceremony could be canceling the happy couple's prescription for PrEPÖ    :P

"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline AusShep

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2014, 11:47:35 PM »
...
All this saidÖ with all the gays rushing to get married these days, shouldn't the need for PrEP eventually dwindle to the circuit party queens, as Miss P says?   Once you get married, part of the ceremony could be canceling the happy couple's prescription for PrEPÖ    :P

And what about those of us in sero discordant relationships...? 

somewhat less of a stigma than in the past, people understanding HIV better, and PrEP are all making easier for more people to be comfortable dating and marrying a poz partner than ever before.

Online Jeff G

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  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2014, 09:01:44 AM »
If a person is in a high risk group takes PrEP they will be seen regularly by a doctor and there will be opportunity's for sexual health counseling and regular std screenings. There are many good reasons for PrEP and I cant personally think of one single thing that makes it a bad idea. There is reason to believe that PrEP can reduce HIV infections as well as std's. I do not buy the idea that PrEP will increase or give people an incentive to have unprotected sex, people are doing that anyway PrEP or not . Every sexually active person on PrEP will be seen by a doctor far many more times than those who do not take the drug. 
 

Offline AusShep

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2014, 09:56:17 AM »
... Every sexually active person on PrEP will be seen by a doctor far many more times than those who do not take the drug. 

That's a great point.  I think the regular Dr visits and managing other issues that come up, and lack of regular checkups in the public at large, is one if the reasons those with managed HIV live almost as long and longer in some demographics than their non positive counterparts.

I have a hard time getting my partner to go to the doctor, other than for colonoscopies every couple of years due to a poor family history.  Considering going on PrEP is what got him to the Dr yesterday for a full health screen.

Online Buckmark

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2014, 08:46:42 PM »
And what about those of us in sero discordant relationships...? 

Good point -- I had not thought of magnetic relationships.  Certainly PrEP would provide protection and ease-of-mind for these couples.  If I wasn't clear, I'm totally in favor of PrEP.  Think of couples in open relationships (or those in which just one of the partners think they are in an open relationship ;) ).

"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline ChavinKnight

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Re: The Morality of PrEP
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2014, 11:13:18 PM »
The issue, if it can be called that, is ridiculous.  There is nothing to discuss.  I know that I and many of my positive friends would not be positive if we'd had PrEP back in the day.  I was an unashamed (still am) wanton slut (not anymore since settling down).  Condoms are not failure proof--just look at the failure rate for pregnancy.  In my lifetime, I had them come off inside several times after the guy had shot.  Many "oh shit" moments (on both sides)....with all of that said, how can anyone in good conscience argue against PrEP?  You don't get to deny a preventative benefit to people based on your feelings about the morality (or lack thereof) of their sexual behavior.  It is not your business.  Besides, PrEP is bound to be cheaper over the long haul versus lifetime treatment of HIV.  Don't forget that one person successfully maintaining negative status on it has the potential for preventing transmission to a lot of other people, depending on the contact rate.  People screw.  They screw frequently.  They screw raw more often than they admit.  (Risk of other STDs will not change it.  Look at the rampant clap and syphillis in Roman times.)  Get over it.  Condoms have been a dismal failure because people don't use them regularly, and even when they do, they sometimes break or come off  while doing the deed.  Better than nothing to be sure, but not nearly as effective as PrEP.  If I were still negative, I'd be more comfortable bottoming bare with a positive top on treatment and me being on PrEP than I would using a condom with a "negative" top.  If anything, I think a case could be made that it is "immoral" to be discussing whether PrEP should be allowed because a group of people don't care for the kind of behavior that "high-risk" people engage in on a regular basis.  Just my two cents.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 11:15:37 PM by ChavinKnight »
No pharmaceutical treatment for ~ 9 years; VL never above 450, half the time undetectable, cd4 >= 622
November 2013--Began treatment with Stribild; VL 120, cd4 585
December 2013--VL undetectable, cd4 = 722 (32.8%)
March 2014--VL undetectable, cd4 = 695 (30.2%)
June 2014--VL undetectable, cd4 = 602 (33.7%)

 


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