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Poll

this poll is strickly for those who receive NO assistance from employers or the federal or state government.

I do not have any health insurance.
3 (18.8%)
I pay between $1000. to $3000. per year.
5 (31.3%)
I pay between $3001. to $6000. per year.
3 (18.8%)
I pay between $6001. to $9000. per year.
4 (25%)
I pay between $9001. to $12,000. per year.
0 (0%)
I pay between $12,001. to $15,000. per year.
1 (6.3%)
I pay between $15,000. to $18,000. per year.
0 (0%)
I pay in excess of $18,000. per year.
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Author Topic: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?  (Read 3579 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mitch777

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what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« on: December 20, 2012, 08:09:14 PM »
PLEASE NOTE:
This poll is for individual coverage only.
ALSO, the cost in this poll EXCLUDES any out of pocket expenses other than the cost of insurance.
(no co-pays or deductables included)

This is by no means a scientific poll.
Cost of insurance is based on many factors including age, benefits, etc.

My personal health insurance costs me over $13,000. per year and is expected to jump to in excess of $16,000. next year.
( I am not in any kind of health care insurance "pool")

Hope to hear from as many of you as possible.

Thanks!
Mitch777

comments are welcome!
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 08:17:00 PM by mitch777 »
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline mitch777

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2012, 08:26:10 PM »
PS-
my out of pocket costs this year above and beyond the cost of insurance are in excess of an additional $2000.00 this year.

31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline mitch777

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2013, 04:51:31 PM »
First of all, I would like to thank those of you who are taking my poll.
It really is just out of curiosity and thought it might come as a shocker to those who don't have to pay for their own insurance.
The rates will vary greatly depending on so many issue... especially age.

I came home today to discover that I will be paying $14,800. per year this year!
Ugh! >:(
(I am 53 years old)

With BCBS rate card that came along with the bad news, NOT including future rate increases, this is what it would cost for my plan in the following age brackets for a male:

30-39 $6500.00 per year
40-44 $9000.00
45-49 $12,000.00
50-54 $14,800.00
55-59 $18,600.00
60-64 $24,900.00

Of course, you will have to expect THESE horrible rates will likely increase 10-20% PER YEAR as these are their current rates.

I would very much appreciate commentary here from anyone, even if you only pay a portion or nothing at all toward your insurance.

It is amazing how this country seems to stay so quiet on this topic!
Please speak out.

PS- any solutions to reduce costs would be helpful. I have looked into a less expensive plan, but the deductables and co-pays would simply increase to the point where it still is not feasible.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 05:06:03 PM by mitch777 »
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline mitch777

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2013, 06:51:46 PM »
OK,
Just thought of another angle to try to get those of you who think you are "non-affected" with this more involved...

Think of all of the mom and pop dry cleaners, restaurant owners, small retail owners, self employed small guys/gals in any business venture that have to pay for their own insurance.

A couple in their 50's, or 60's is faced with paying $30,000-50,000+++ per year for health insurance.

If you expect them to survive, the costs of the goods and/or services are going to go through the roof.

I hope everyone prepares for the results.
ie: shopping at walmart and dining at nationally owned chain restaurants that hire employees at minimum wage and offer few if any benefits AND do not contribute in a substantial way to the community.

sorry for my rant, but healthcare has gotten out of control.

(i am a left wing national health care advocate)
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline Jmarksto

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2013, 01:13:56 PM »
(i am a left wing national health care advocate)

Me too....

It just baffles me that the average american doesn't see that they would be better off with a nationalized system.  The currently "entrenched health care system" has pulled the wool over the public's eyes (that they have the best health care in the world, that they have choice, its "free market", .... all of which are fallacies).

We'll see how Obama care evolves, I hope it starts us down the path of a more humane system -- until then all we can do is rant.

JM
03/15/12 Negative
06/15/12 Positive
07/11/12 CD4 790          VL 4,000
08/06/12 CD4 816/38%   VL 49,300
08/20/12 Started Complera
11/06/12 CD4   819/41% VL 38
02/11/13 CD4   935/41% VL UD
06/06/13 CD4   816/41% VL UD
10/28/13 CD4 1131/45%  VL 25
02/25/14 CD4   792/37%  VL UD
07/09/14 CD4 1004/39%   VL UD

Offline _dave_

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2013, 12:03:40 AM »
I would very much appreciate commentary here from anyone, even if you only pay a portion or nothing at all toward your insurance.

It is amazing how this country seems to stay so quiet on this topic!
Please speak out.


One question I am curious about since I dont live in the US:  Do you have to pay for the entire price of your HIV Medication or even a portion of it? How much does the treatment cost?

Offline mitch777

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2013, 01:50:50 PM »
One question I am curious about since I dont live in the US:  Do you have to pay for the entire price of your HIV Medication or even a portion of it? How much does the treatment cost?
This is a rather complicated couple of questions but I will try to give you the simplified answers.
Most people have either private health insurance (which can cost a bundle if your employer doesn't pay for it), or use "ADAP" (Aids Drug Assistance Program) (some states have waiting lists and each state has different requirements to become eligible), or are old enough to be on Medicare and pay extra for drug coverage.
The out of pocket costs to cover HIV drugs can be quite different for many reasons.
If you qualify for ADAP, the cost is covered entirely (at least here in Connecticut).
If you have insurance, you will most likely be paying a deductable which can vary depending on the insurance policy.
If you have ADAP and insurance, the insurance company picks up most of the tab and ADAP will pay the deductable. (at least here in Connecticut)
My guess is that most HIV drug treatments cost between $15,000-20,000 per year for "the basics".
(additional medications for HIV related health issues would be in addition)
So, the bottom line is, I doubt many people pay for the majority of the costs of their meds.

As you can see, if you have to pay for your own health insurance, the cost is not cheap!
(and the insurance rates rise with your age)

America is a great place to live if you are healthy, wealthy, or have a great health care insurance plan from an employer. :)
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline Iggy

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2013, 02:38:39 PM »
As I have insurance through work I didn't take part in the poll.  Since you asked for commentary from those who only pay a portion of their insurance I thought I outline what I pay a year.

Before I begin please know that I spent a long time without health insurance and ended up in the emergency room with shingles that covered most of my body one year because at the time I didn't have insurance or even the money to go to a CVS minute clinic.

My work place Health Insurance Plan (PPO 80/20) is damn good with me paying only about 280 a year and my company paying about 11,500. 

My Vision, Dental and Flex Spending account are an additional 2800 (give or take) a year for me (my expense) which brings my yearly total to just over 3,000 which is really nothing to complain about.  Also that is all taken out of my pay pre-tax so that reduces my tax amount as well.

The Flex spending pays for most of my meds and doctor appointments as well so outside of an unexpected hospitalization that 3k is pretty close to my over all health care costs taken out of my pocket. 

I guess if you add it with the company portion it is almost 15K which is why I am most grateful for my job even though it pays very little!

You are absolutely right about healthcare in the U.S.  It's ridiculous and far from the best in the world. 
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 02:40:25 PM by Iggy »

Offline MitchMiller

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2013, 01:38:43 AM »
I did participate in your poll even though my employer offers insurance.  I opt out because I doubt I'd be employed for long if I opted in.  So I "go naked" so to speak and pay for my own meds (generics).  My total health care costs run about $2500/year.

I'm thinking you may be able to save some money once Obama-care is in full swing.  The insurance exchanges are supposed to be up and running by Oct 2013, with policies active starting 1/2014.  I'm hoping to retire soon (I'm 56) and will probably look to purchase private insurance through the exchange of my state of residence.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 01:47:41 AM by MitchMiller »

Offline bocker3

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2013, 07:42:34 AM »
The currently "entrenched health care system" has pulled the wool over the public's eyes (that they have the best health care in the world, that they have choice, its "free market", .... all of which are fallacies).

Well, I think we DO have some of the best health care in the world.  Top notch research and care facilities available all across the country (not in every community, I know -- but in very large areas all across the country).  What we do NOT have is the best ACCESS to all this great care.  For those with great insurance or deep pockets, you can partake in this great care -- if you don't, well.........  get really sick then they will be forced to care for you.

Anyway -- my point is that we often say that the US does not have great healthcare and that just isn't true -- it is the access piece that is lacking -- sorely lacking for many.

And the "reason" most people don't want national healthcare is that "they" (currently) have access to all this great care and don't want to "mess it up". It is short sighted view, as we all know someone who lost insurance and suddenly that "great health care" was no longer available.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline Iggy

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2013, 10:11:35 AM »
Well, I think we DO have some of the best health care in the world.  Top notch research and care facilities available all across the country (not in every community, I know -- but in very large areas all across the country).  What we do NOT have is the best ACCESS to all this great care. 

I honestly do not understand this rationale.  When discussing/evaluating a nation's healthcare system I don't understand how to separate facilities from access. 

I can agree with the idea (and probably it's a fact) that the U.S. has some/most of the greatest medical facilities and professionals in the world but that is not the same as saying it has some of the greatest healthcare. 

The very word/term healthcare in my mind means you can't look at facilities and access in vacuums - certainly not separate ones at least.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 10:14:02 AM by Iggy »

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2013, 10:17:34 AM »
I honestly do not understand this rationale.  When discussing/evaluating a nation's healthcare system I don't understand how to separate facilities from access. 

I can agree with the idea (and probably it's a fact) that the U.S. has some/most of the greatest medical facilities and professionals in the world but that is not the same as saying it has some of the greatest healthcare. 

The very word/term healthcare in my mind means you can't look at facilities and access in vacuums - certainly not separate ones at least.

Agreed, what's the point of all this healthcare if no one can afford to use it?

Offline mecch

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2013, 04:17:38 PM »
I agree with Bocker and with Iggy. 
The problem is that the right and also simpleton rah-rah America is No. 1 types can't keep two ideas in their brains at the same time. Fantastic care. But tens of millions with no access.

The same goes for higher education.  Fantastic!  But also - 1 trillion in student loan debt? And piles and piles of shit-assed rip-off schools. And millions never get the chance for any post-secondary.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline buginme2

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2013, 04:33:17 PM »
I know this isnt what you asked, but I'm wondering how Obamacare will impact the cost of care. 

Currently I am covered on my employer plan.  I pay $1300 per year in payroll deduction to cover myself and my partner for medical insurance.  Our plan is a 90/10 plan.  So the insurance company covers 90% and I pay 10%. 

If I lost my job I'm not really sure what I would do.  Once the Insurance exchanges are set up will the costs be affordable?  If I try and buy medical insurance on the exchange and its 20 grand a year, then really whats the point? 

Offline leatherman

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2013, 05:01:47 PM »
If I lost my job I'm not really sure what I would do.  Once the Insurance exchanges are set up will the costs be affordable?  If I try and buy medical insurance on the exchange and its 20 grand a year, then really whats the point?
the exchanges are mainly just clearinghouses of what insurance and plans are available in your state/area with the Essential Health Benefits determined by your state. While there maybe a $20K-a-yr plan there, Blue Cross, Humana, etc will be there also with all of their regular plans, along with state and federal plans.

There will also be subsidies to help purchase insurance if you meet the financial eligibility requirements

http://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/h/health-insurance-marketplace.html
http://www.healthcare.gov/law/features/choices/exchanges/index.html
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline bocker3

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2013, 10:01:50 PM »
I honestly do not understand this rationale.  When discussing/evaluating a nation's healthcare system I don't understand how to separate facilities from access. 

You separate it because you can have one without the other -- in either direction and if you are lacking in one, you solve it differently than if you are lacking the other. 
I don't think you "don't understand", it's that you don't agree.  For example, many people say they want a single payer system (I'm one of them) -- however, there are things that will be given up for that.  There won't be so many facilities available in that scenario (to name one) -- so people will wait for some things.  But, say you, everyone has access then -- that is still "separating" the access from the actual available care.  I mean, what good is having the access if you can't find the actual care.

And to be clear -- I think we should have universal access, but let's be honest -- the VAST MAJORITY of Americans do, in fact, have some form of insurance (private or public) and therefore have the access - access to a GREAT healthcare system.  That is why we are where we are -- the majority do not want to change their healthcare system, because it works fine for them -- of course, only until they lose their insurance (then they would be looking at a great system that doesn't serve them well at all), but that isn't how the majority think.

One more thing -- it is not just "the right" that wants the status quo -- "the left" also has many who wish things to remain the way they are today.  If you think that is not so, then explain why Obamacare is what we got, when "the left" had all the power.  They may believe a single payer is perferable, but they are too fearful of losing their power to push for it - because the majority of Americans do not want it.

So -- we desire the same goal, but I can separate access and care because they are separate, even if I don't like it.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline MitchMiller

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2013, 12:55:01 AM »
I know this isnt what you asked, but I'm wondering how Obamacare will impact the cost of care. 

If I lost my job I'm not really sure what I would do.  Once the Insurance exchanges are set up will the costs be affordable?  If I try and buy medical insurance on the exchange and its 20 grand a year, then really whats the point?

I'm wondering if states will still be able to regulate premiums after 1/2014?  Another issue is that there is no definition of affordable, other than the requirement that 80% of premiums be spent on health care.  My guess is that premiums may actually rise for the healthy individual, while decreasing for those with severe preexisting conditions.  I don't see how it can be any other way round. 

If you lost your job, you would definitely qualify for the subsidy.  However, I wonder if there is a wealth test as well... at least it would seem like there should be.

When I retire, I expect my income to be about 30K/year.  I should be able to control income levels since it will all be from capital gains.  Do I still get a subsidy even though I have a lot of savings and unrealized capital gains in individual stocks?

Hopefully I can stay lucky and hang in there one more year walking around naked.

Offline Iggy

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2013, 06:36:56 AM »
You separate it because you can have one without the other -- in either direction and if you are lacking in one, you solve it differently than if you are lacking the other. 
I don't think you "don't understand", it's that you don't agree.

Hey Mike -

Thanks for the response.  You are correct that I don't agree, but you are wrong to say that is separate from my point of not understanding how you can see access as being separate from healthcare overall as it makes no sense in any argument but a political one.

Again, we do agree that the U.S. has some of the best facilities, treatments and professionals in the world.  We just disagree that this represents some of the best healthcare in the world. 

Very on topic BTW to our point and this thread -  The Wall Street Journal  just reported yesterday that citizens of the U.S. rank near the bottom of 17 wealthy nations when it comes to life expectancy.  The causes: high rates of obesity and diabetes, heart disease, chronic lung disease and arthritis, as well as infant mortality, injuries, homicides, teen pregnancy, drug deaths and sexually transmitted diseases.

While obviously homicides are higher in the U.S.  than anywhere else and skews the results - the other areas are clearly related to our overall healthcare and can not be dismissed so easily.   

Interestingly the study noted that this higher mortality rate affects the wealthy as well so even those who have access to our healthcare are dying in higher numbers than their peers in other countries which undermines the idea that our healthcare is the best in the world no matter how you slice it.

My guess is that is because our healthcare system fails not only in the access issue for most but in its focus which is to be the best in the treatment of health issues.  Unfortunately healthcare is much more than that.   What we seem to be lacking in is keeping people healthy so that they don't need the treatment in the first place in the form of preventive med programs. 

The focus on the biggest and best treatment facilities btw is probably why our Healthcare costs are so high as well compared to our peers. 

WSJ: Americans Die Younger Than Peers

« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 06:44:12 AM by Iggy »

Offline bocker3

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2013, 07:51:15 AM »

Very on topic BTW to our point and this thread -  The Wall Street Journal  just reported yesterday that citizens of the U.S. rank near the bottom of 17 wealthy nations when it comes to life expectancy.  The causes: high rates of obesity and diabetes, heart disease, chronic lung disease and arthritis, as well as infant mortality, injuries, homicides, teen pregnancy, drug deaths and sexually transmitted diseases.

While obviously homicides are higher in the U.S.  than anywhere else and skews the results - the other areas are clearly related to our overall healthcare and can not be dismissed so easily.   

Interestingly the study noted that this higher mortality rate affects the wealthy as well so even those who have access to our healthcare are dying in higher numbers than their peers in other countries which undermines the idea that our healthcare is the best in the world no matter how you slice it.


Again -- I have to disagree.  The majority of the causes listed can be linked to personal choices -- not in all cases, but in many.  Obesity, smoking, injuries, homicides, STDs, teen pregnancy -- are very preventable for many.  Given the number of obese folks in this country (which has included me at times), it is due to the excellent healthcare that the life expectancy is not LOWER. 
There is lots of education happening on the dangers of obesity -- it's having some effect, but not enough.  To put the blame for all these choices on the healthcare system is, in my POV, a political position.  My doctors nagged me for years to quit smoking and lose weight, as well as have safe sex -- I didn't quit until I decided it was time -- my weight has gone up and done over the years (never going back to the high it was at after each bounce, thankfully) and well, by presence here shows how effective the "safe sex" talks were on me.
One more example on the need, IMO, to separate our healthcare system from access to it -- having access does not mean one will use it.  My partner has great insurance, thus great access -- I have to drag him kicking and screaming to see the doctor when he's sick.  I know many people who act the same way -- so, just having access doesn't always guarantee use.  Of course, everyone SHOULD have access.
At any rate -- we are closer to agreement on the largest issue, but we are going to have to be OK with disagreeing on what our healthcare system really is.

Oh -- and my "argument" on separating the two is not a political one -- it is based on how I learned about our system while in grad school for a Master in Public Health degree -- also while working in healthcare for more than a dozen years.  I suspect you and I would be pretty similar in the majority of our political stands -- I could be wrong, but that is my sense. 

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline Ann

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2013, 08:38:07 AM »

While obviously homicides are higher in the U.S.  than anywhere else and skews the results - the other areas are clearly related to our overall healthcare and can not be dismissed so easily.   


Infant mortality rates have long been one of the standards by which a country's overall health is determined.

According to the Kaiser Family website (Infant Mortality Rate (Total Deaths per 1,000 Live Births) 2012), the US is at #168 on a highest-to-lowest rate list.

Afghanistan is at #1 with the highest infant mortality rate and the lowest rate is Monaco at #268. Anyway, have a click on the link and have a look for yourself how many other countries have a lower rate. Just as a matter of interest. 


The majority of the causes listed can be linked to personal choices -- not in all cases, but in many.



What we seem to be lacking in is keeping people healthy so that they don't need the treatment in the first place in the form of preventive med programs. 


Just to take the example of the "personal choice" of becoming a teenaged mother, the Netherlands has one of the lower rates of infant mortality (as well as one of the lower rates of teenage pregnancy and STIs).

They start sex ed as soon as the child enters the school system. They don't start talking about condoms to kindergarteners, they start out with lessons about day-to-day relationships and each year build on those basic building blocks. Kids don't start learning about the sex act itself until they have a thorough understanding of how relationships work (all relationships, not only sexual ones), usually around age 13-14.

And it works.

Of course you'd never be able to accomplish this level of sex ed in the US, or in the UK for that matter. And we both have higher rates of infant mortality (and teen pregnancy and STIs) as a result.

At least here in the UK STIs are treated free-of-charge and the vast majority of teen mums access free pre-natal health care - because they can.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mitch777

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2013, 12:02:49 PM »
It looks like there really is little disagreement here. Symantics.
The point is that American's lifespan is no where near the top in high-income countries.
According to a recent report by the National Research Council and Institute of Medicine, America ranks below the following high-income countries in lifespan:
(in order for men)

Switzerland
Australia
Japan
Sweden
Italy
Canada
Norway
Netherlands
Spain
U.K.
France
Austria
Germany
Denmark
Portugal
Finland
U.S.

The report also went on to say that the U.S. health disadvantage has multiple causes and involves some combination of inadequate health care, unhealthy behaviors, adverse economic and social conditions, environmental factors, as well as public policies.
Other rich nations generally receive medical care through national health care systems.
America spends more per person on health care than any other nation.

So,
It only makes sense to me that a single payer national healthcare system seems not only more efficient, but more effective.
It boggles my mind how many BILLIONS of dollars are "wasted" by having insurance companies profit by simply being the middle man bill payer.
Insurance companies DO NOT PROVIDE health care. They are basically bill payers that design policies to "insure" a profit.

Other huge profit companies include pharmaceutical and medical equipment companies, but at LEAST they do provide a product. (not that I am happy with their methods and greed)

The cost of healthcare in this country is going to bankrupt our entire system.

Health care should be a human right and not a privilege.
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline mecch

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2013, 12:28:33 PM »
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/09/business/health-care-and-pursuit-of-profit-make-a-poor-mix.html?pagewanted=all

Our reliance on private enterprise to provide the most essential services stems, in part, from a more narrow understanding of our collective responsibility to provide social goods. Private American health care has stood out for decades among industrial nations, where public universal coverage has long been considered a right of citizenship. But our faith in private solutions also draws on an ingrained belief that big government serves too many disparate objectives and must cater to too many conflicting interests to deliver services fairly and effectively.

Our trust appears undeserved, however. Our track record suggests that handing over responsibility for social goals to private enterprise is providing us with social goods of lower quality, distributed more inequitably and at a higher cost than if government delivered or paid for them directly.

By many objective measures, the mostly private American system delivers worse value for money than every other in the developed world. We spend nearly 18 percent of the nation’s economic output on health care and still manage to leave tens of millions of Americans without adequate access to care.

Britain gets universal coverage for 10 percent of gross domestic product. Germany and France for 12 percent. What’s more, our free market for health services produces no better health than the public health care systems in other advanced nations. On some measures — infant mortality, for instance — it does much worse.


_________


But that's the liberal lamestream media.

The only thing clear is that the "majority" of Americans don't have a cosmopolitan view of health care.  Its simple patriotism (and what's wrong with patriotism?) to believe the American system must be great, must be top.  People are "content" because they either can't imagine or haven't considered more successful systems.  Or, because they are on the right, and TRULY see universal coverage as a bunch of handouts to freeloaders and another way to bankrupt and ruin the country's future. That's social and economic philosophy.

How Americans can play down the US's revolting access problem, when confronted with the more successful systems, is beyond me. 

To say the uninsured Americans nevertheless have access to American healthcare brilliance is ridiculous.  Its not far from Romney's - "the poor have emergency rooms".

But I'm on the left. And, it didn't even sink into my lefty American bones, how a foreign system could be better (say UK's, or France, or Germany, etc.), until I lived under one for years. 


« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 12:32:24 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mitch777

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2013, 12:33:52 PM »
^agree 100%.
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline mecch

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2013, 12:50:01 PM »
Oh, and I'm realist enough to not think the US can or should wipe out a mixed health care system - private and government.
Nor do I forget that the US probably must, even today, foot the bill for its military strength, a strength that maybe, maybe, the other industrialised countries still rely upon, even in 2013, and obviously don't pay for. (But does the US have to spend this much? This much? On stupid wars?)
Nor do I think the solutions of medium sized countries can easily apply to the huge US.  And, you got to respect the culture of a country. 

Switzerland has private health care, but universal coverage, and government subsidies, but it just manages to work based on the economy and size and culture of this country. Full-time service workers can afford the monthly premium (for the most part), cause they get a living wage.

Overall I'd say Affordable Care was a great step in the right direction and probably the route to universal coverage is some private/government mix. Just insisting on the universal coverage, and not letting insurance companies game it up, nor corporations play the system to return ALL benefits to shareholders.  If I were a bottom line effective CEO or CFO of a huge retail or service corp, I'd be so tempted to do what they do.  No benefits, lowest wages possible, and shunt the workers onto government funded health care access. Its a no brainer.

Whats the trick to get more service and retail companies to offer fulltime work and a genuine basic health coverage?  Or, to get them to pay a living wage so workers could buy coverage in pools?








« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 01:01:53 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline buginme2

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2013, 01:10:26 PM »
It looks like there really is little disagreement here. Symantics.
The point is that American's lifespan is no where near the top in high-income countries.
According to a recent report by the National Research Council and Institute of Medicine, America ranks below the following high-income countries in lifespan:
(in order for men)

Switzerland
Australia
Japan
Sweden
Italy
Canada
Norway
Netherlands
Spain
U.K.
France
Austria
Germany
Denmark
Portugal
Finland
U.S.

The report also went on to say that the U.S. health disadvantage has multiple causes and involves some combination of inadequate health care, unhealthy behaviors, adverse economic and social conditions, environmental factors, as well as public policies.
Other rich nations generally receive medical care through national health care systems.
America spends more per person on health care than any other nation.


Health care should be a human right and not a privilege.

These lists, I wonder how much of it is influenced by factors not related to the country's healthcare industry.  Diet, amount of physical activity, genetics,etc would probably play a bigger role than the country's healthcare system.  Lets face it, most of those countries have a better diet and a lot less fat people.  Just sayin.

On that note, I'm off to the gym.

Health care should be a human right and not a privilege. << Agreed

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2013, 01:47:00 PM »
I wonder how our healthcare system would compare with those countries if we took out numbers from red states. ::) I'm guessing it wouldn't be that shoddy.

Better yet, if the EU was fully integrated in terms of transfer payments vis-a-vis welfare programs would Germans and the Dutch support propping up the healthcare systems of Greece and Spain? I think we know the answer to this question.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 01:55:19 PM by Miss Philicia »
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline buginme2

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2013, 05:37:58 PM »
I wonder how our healthcare system would compare with those countries if we took out numbers from red states. ::) I'm guessing it wouldn't be that shoddy.



Great article.   

Offline davidcs

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Re: what do you pay for health insurance in the USA?
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2013, 10:58:59 PM »
fyi-I work in Brazil and HIV meds are free there.

PS:I filled out an insurance form on the internet for insurance with a preexisting  condition and got calls by the hundreds. Talked to one broker and under Obama care insurance companies must insure a percentage of clients with preexisting conditions.  The fees were in the 150-700 dollar range but it's still too early to get any as the program does not start till 2014

 


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