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Author Topic: S.E.X.  (Read 8393 times)

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Online Jeff G

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2013, 10:28:11 PM »
I do understand that . But still, I believe this is something personal and everyone has the right to its own privacy.

Besides, let's say that an HIV positive person has sex with someone who is negative, and the negative person gets infected. How will the Law determine that it was you who infected the other person and it wasnt anyone else ? There's no way to find  that out.

Like I said before, if they are adults enough to face a sexual relationship, they should be adults enough to face whatever comes after that as well (not only HIV infection, but also  pregnancy and any other STD) . The same way that us, HIV positive people did at some point of our lives.

Dave . You are casual about throwing you insensitive , callous , shallow and totally self serving views around almost as if you assume everyone naturally feels the same as you do . I want you to know many people do not feel the way you do . You do a disservice to all people that have made sacrifices to fight stigma and discrimination . Shame on you .

Are you simply here to stir some shit up ?

Offline _dave_

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2013, 10:47:48 PM »
Dave . You are casual about throwing you insensitive , callous , shallow and totally self serving views around almost as if you assume everyone naturally feels the same as you do . I want you to know many people do not feel the way you do . You do a disservice to all people that have made sacrifices to fight stigma and discrimination . Shame on you .

Are you simply here to stir some shit up ?

Hey, it's only my point of view and I never said that everyone naturally feels the same way I do. Never said that.

So, according to you I do a "disservice to all people that have made sacrifices to fight stigma and discrimination"? That's funny because what you are proposing (Disclosing your hiv status) is self-stigmatization and auto-discrimination and what I am saying is that there is no need to disclose everywhere to everyone  that you are HIV Positive because either way - positive or negative- YOU HAVE TO protect yourself and the other person (and I am talking about RANDOM sexual relationships).

Why should I disclose my HIV status to a person that I just met in a club and who probably I wont see again in my entire life? What makes you think this person will not tell others that I am HIV positive if that person does not even feel anything for me because I just met him/her and does not  give a shit about me?

I am HIV positive and I feel exactly the same as an HIV negative person.  When HIV Negative people have sex, do they say to each other " Oh before we have sex, I want to tell you that I am HIV negative"? NO, THEY DONT (Not to mention that discussing about an illness before having sex is the most non-erotic subject you can ever talk about)

HIV Negative and/or HIV Positive people protect themselves the same way and use the same methods so there is no point on disclosing your HIV status to a random person you just met and who probably you wont see again in your life!!

Different is the situation where you meet a person, you date that person for a while, you feel something for her/him and you want the scenario to be clear for both of you. That is a different picture.


Offline leatherman

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2013, 11:13:44 PM »
but also  pregnancy and any other STD
while I agree that protecting yourself against all these things is similar and that both partners have an equal responsibility to protect themselves, none of those issues you listed are exactly similar to knowing that you carry an infectious terminal* disease and have the moral responsibility of not transmitting that kind of a disease

*untested and especially untreated HIV is still a terminal disease

Quote
I do ADMIT that I met guys who wanted to have unprotected sex with me, and I did it a few couple times
.......
what I am saying is that there is no need to disclose everywhere to everyone  that you are HIV Positive because either way - positive or negative- YOU HAVE TO protect yourself and the other person
your own story clearly points out that others do not always protect themselves. . .
and, for all your high-mided words and opinions, you did not protect them either.  :-X
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline _dave_

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2013, 11:46:00 PM »
your own story clearly points out that others do not always protect themselves. . .
and, for all your high-mided words and opinions, you did not protect them either.  :-X

1) No. They DECIDED not to protect themselves and I was okay with that. I can't force anybody to use a condom if they dont want to . Its  their decission, not mine. And I assume that by choosing not to use a condom the other person fully understands the possible consequences that this action may result in.

2) I am an adult person who has sex with other adults and never forced anyone to have sex with me without using condoms. Like I said, we are adults enough to determine what decisions we make and pay for the consequences of our own decisions and that is called "FREE WILL".



« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 11:52:13 PM by _dave_ »

Offline _dave_

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2013, 11:49:19 PM »
while I agree that protecting yourself against all these things is similar and that both partners have an equal responsibility to protect themselves, none of those issues you listed are exactly similar to knowing that you carry an infectious terminal* disease and have the moral responsibility of not transmitting that kind of a disease


So, according to you I have the "MORAL RESPONSABILITY OF NOT TRANSMITTING THAT KIND OF DISEASE"?
 
Well, lets put it this way: the other person has the responsability of protecting his own body so that he/sho does not ACQUIRE this disease from anyone as well.

Thats why its called AIDS (acquired immunodeficiency syndrome)

I never say that someone "passed" to me this disease. I DECIDED to have it the very same moment that I decided not to protect myself.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 11:54:11 PM by _dave_ »

Offline wolfter

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2013, 12:01:45 AM »
Sigh ... daves post makes me want to slink back into the LTS forum and never fucking crawl back out .

AGREED!!!  I decided not to respond to his posts out of fear I'll get a time-out.  When so much time, money and energy have been devoted to stopping (or reducing) the number of infections, to read some such ignorance is madening.

Wolfie
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2013, 12:05:31 AM »
Dave, you said this in the Just Tested Poz forum, " I dont know YOU, but I've been always afraid of getting HIV from random people that I had sex with. I was always thinking and thinking things over and over again. But now, since I already have HIV its like I dont have to think about all that again."

If someone you had sex with knew they were poz, do you not wish they would have told you, or at least insisted on condoms, regardless of whether you asked or wanted to bareback?  You say you don't have to think about all that now.  That sounds like, "Well, I have it and can't get it again, so why should I concern myself with whether others become infected?  It's totally their responsibility now." 

It does come off very selfish, and forgetting about your own worry.

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2013, 12:12:03 AM »
Disclosing your hiv status is self-stigmatization and auto-discrimination

That is the most ridiculous thing I have read in a quite a while.  As someone who is very open about his status, and who has done a little bit to educate others and reduce stigma, I take offense to this statement (and your attitude as a whole --not just in this thread, but others where you have chosen to reply).  How fucking dare you?

Sure, let us all simply hide under a rock and act like HIV is some sort of scarlet letter that must be hidden at all costs.  Many activists and AIDS victims must be turning in their graves each time you post any of your selfish and senseless babble.

Your implicit shame and the decision to stay silent exemplify the fear and rejection that many people living with HIV have to endure.  Never mind the fact that your being silent and secretive about your status to any sexual partners could be easily viewed by many as some form of "typhoid Mary" behavior.  That is just lovely.

Just because you feel strongly about it, and because you think that it is right for you, it does not make it gospel.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 12:13:45 AM by Rev. Moon »
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline _dave_

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #58 on: January 07, 2013, 12:15:44 AM »
Dave, you said this in the Just Tested Poz forum, " I dont know YOU, but I've been always afraid of getting HIV from random people that I had sex with. I was always thinking and thinking things over and over again. But now, since I already have HIV its like I dont have to think about all that again."

If someone you had sex with knew they were poz, do you not wish they would have told you, or at least insisted on condoms, regardless of whether you asked or wanted to bareback?  You say you don't have to think about all that now.  That sounds like, "Well, I have it and can't get it again, so why should I concern myself with whether others become infected?  It's totally their responsibility now." 

It does come off very selfish, and forgetting about your own worry.

Let me reply to your questions:

- If someone you had sex with knew they were poz, do you not wish they would have told you, or at least insisted on condoms, regardless of whether you asked or wanted to bareback?

If I was to have sex with a random person, why would I expect him/her to protect me? Its ME the one who has to care about not acquiring a disease from a random sex night with someone that I just met and its ME the one who should've insisted on using condoms .

Why do we always have to EXPECT "politically correct" attitudes from others ? WE have to protect ourselves and not to expect that others protect us. If we dont protect ourselves, then who is?

That is probably why people get infected, because they expect others to protect them when actually it does not work that way.


That sounds like, "Well, I have it and can't get it again, so why should I concern myself with whether others become infected?  It's totally their responsibility now." 

No, it does not sound like that. Because even if you already have HIV and  you have unprotected sex AGAIN you can re-infect yourself again making the HIV virus more resistant to your medication.

Offline _dave_

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #59 on: January 07, 2013, 12:18:40 AM »
That is the most ridiculous thing I have read in a quite a while.  As someone who is very open about his status, and who has done a little bit to educate others and reduce stigma, I take offense to this statement (and your attitude as a whole --not just in this thread, but others where you have chosen to reply).  How fucking dare you?

Sure, let us all simply hide under a rock and act like HIV is some sort of scarlet letter that must be hidden at all costs.  Many activists and AIDS victims must be turning in their graves each time you post any of your selfish and senseless babble.

Your implicit shame and the decision to stay silent exemplify the fear and rejection that many people living with HIV have to endure.  Never mind the fact that your being silent and secretive about your status to any sexual partners could be easily viewed by many as some form of "typhoid Mary" behavior.  That is just lovely.

Just because you feel strongly about it, and because you think that it is right for you, it does not make it gospel.

I think you are misunderstanding everything I posted. Read again and probably you will understand.

I said that it makes no sense to disclose your HIV status to random people you met and have sex for one night in your life.

I am not saying that is not okay to disclose your HIV status and disclose it to those who you love and care about you.

Offline leatherman

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #60 on: January 07, 2013, 12:20:02 AM »
They DECIDED not to protect themselves and I was okay with that. I can't force anybody to use a condom if they dont want to .
you didn't have to have that unprotected sex - that was your choice. You could (and really SHOULD) have not risked transmitting a disease like HIV to someone else. Much less having sex with someone who obviously was uneducated and didn't know the risks they were taking.

like many others here, I counsel lots of people who don't understand the risks they take.
I counsel a lot of them too when they end up dealing with the consequences of those risks.
it's sad and your actions only make it harder for the rest of us, poz and neg, in our efforts to quell the rising rates of HIV infection.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline leatherman

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #61 on: January 07, 2013, 12:23:31 AM »
Because even if you already have HIV and  you have unprotected sex AGAIN you can re-infect yourself again making the HIV virus more resistant to your medication.
untrue. For people that are properly medicated, not only does the treatment reduce the amount of HIV that might be transmitted, lowering the chances of infection or reinfection; but proper treatment will work as both PrEP and PEP preventing any reinfection. Case studies of "reinfection" have only shown this happening when someone was not on or not on adequate therapy
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline _dave_

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #62 on: January 07, 2013, 12:28:26 AM »
you didn't have to have that unprotected sex - that was your choice. 


That was not MY choice. Sex is not made by just one person, right? You need at least TWO people to have sex. AT LEAST. Then it was OUR decision. Not mine :)

You could (and really SHOULD) have not risked transmitting a disease like HIV to someone else.


Again, I didnt put anyone in risk. That person put him/herself in risk. Not me.

Much less having sex with someone who obviously was uneducated and didn't know the risks they were taking.


Since I have sex with adults, I assume that they understand the consequences of having sex (protected or unprotected sex). If they are not mature to understand the consequences of their actions, then they shouldnt have sex. Or you expect me to  give them a class before having sex?


Offline _dave_

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #63 on: January 07, 2013, 12:29:54 AM »
untrue. For people that are properly medicated, not only does the treatment reduce the amount of HIV that might be transmitted, lowering the chances of infection or reinfection; but proper treatment will work as both PrEP and PEP preventing any reinfection. Case studies of "reinfection" have only shown this happening when someone was not on or not on adequate therapy

Cool. Thanks for the info. I am safe then . And the others I had sex with in an unprotected way, might be safe too :)

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #64 on: January 07, 2013, 12:31:48 AM »
untrue. For people that are properly medicated, not only does the treatment reduce the amount of HIV that might be transmitted, lowering the chances of infection or reinfection; but proper treatment will work as both PrEP and PEP preventing any reinfection. Case studies of "reinfection" have only shown this happening when someone was not on or not on adequate therapy

Chile please.  Seems to me that somebody fell asleep during HIV 101 class.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline _dave_

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #65 on: January 07, 2013, 12:35:11 AM »
Chile please.  Seems to me that somebody fell asleep during HIV 101 class.

Yep. I fell asleep during HIV 101 class the very same day you fell asleep during Language class, since you could not even understand and/or interpret my posts :)

Offline wolfter

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #66 on: January 07, 2013, 12:43:27 AM »
Yep. I fell asleep during HIV 101 class the very same day you fell asleep during Language class, since you could not even understand and/or interpret my posts :)

Did you fall asleep during reading comprehension class as that post was NOT directed at you?  You've so endeared yourself to this entire forum and I expect you'll receive great support in the future.   :o  You're quite low in my relevancy scale.

Wolfie
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #67 on: January 07, 2013, 12:44:09 AM »
Yep. I fell asleep during HIV 101 class the very same day you fell asleep during Language class, since you could not even understand and/or interpret my posts :)

Oh, boo.  Don't even try me.  You may want to re-frame your posts in whichever fashion your little heart desires.  Your "absolute" claims (i.e. telling someone "NO NO NO!!!!" regarding their choice to disclose their HIV status) don't require a lot of interpretation. 

Be blessed, honey chile.

Did you fall asleep during reading comprehension class as that post was NOT directed at you?  You've so endeared yourself to this entire forum and I expect you'll receive great support in the future.   :o  You're quite low in my relevancy scale.

Wolfie


Amen, sista Wolftah.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 12:46:01 AM by Rev. Moon »
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #68 on: January 07, 2013, 01:34:46 AM »
I have this image of Moffie in my head, pounding on a keyboard like a maniac.

Dave.... Dave ...

I had a whole eloquent caveat written, something to show that I believe in personal responsibility and disclosure when putting another at risk, and being brave and reducing stigma...

But I deleted it. Because you wouldnt read it and you wouldnt understand the real intent of my message.

Your attitude is why we remain stigmatized. Your moral center hurts all of us.

 Your choices actually DO help to change the world, it's perceptions. It is frustrating to see you choose such unwise journeys, at the expense of the very people you may/will need when your choices inevitably betray you.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Rockin

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #69 on: January 07, 2013, 05:57:26 AM »
To be honest many many guys behave exactly like Dave and every time someone like him makes this sort of statement we all throw rocks. Isn't it better to try to understand his reasoning? If you get angry at these kinds of posts then just don't say anything.

I understand the fear of rejection very well because I'm simply scared shitless of it...ever since my Dx I've had sex with guys and I never told any of them but we used condoms every time, none of them broke and I also refrained from ejaculating anywhere near their mouths, even though I know that the risk in oral sex is pretty much non-existent. I already made up my mind about it and I will only tell if I see the potential of something serious with someone.

After all, people have sex without asking questions right? Don't ask don't tell? At the end of the day, if it's a casual hookup, no one wants to know what happens, bottom line. Sad but true.

However Dave, when those situations happened and you allowed someone to have BB sex with you, didn't you feel a slight bit of guilt in your conscience? You may be dealing well with your status but some people get depressed and even suicidal. I do agree with the others that you are being irresponsible, regardless if the other guy is willing to have bareback sex with you without asking questions. You have knowledge of the situation, they don't.

Offline 0608

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #70 on: January 07, 2013, 06:13:54 AM »
Just thought I'd brighten up the mood a bit (btw there's right, and there's wrong, and Dave, you're in the latter).  At midnight on New Year's Day, I was being made love to by an awesome guy who also happens to be positive.  It was my first time since my diagnosis in June, and it was amazing.  Sex isn't as great as I remembered; it's BETTER!!!

Okay, carry on~. ;)

Offline Iggy

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #71 on: January 07, 2013, 06:39:35 AM »
I started to read the recent posts on this thread and like Jonathan was getting ready to post a long thought out response to Dave until I read his response to Mikie's point that Dave made a choice to have unprotected sex with people without disclosing his status:

That was not MY choice. Sex is not made by just one person, right? You need at least TWO people to have sex. AT LEAST. Then it was OUR decision. Not mine :)

That's when I realized that you can't reason with such a mindset.   I do post here anyway though not for Dave's response, but to make a statement for others who may read the thread. 

I agree that there is always two (or more depending on the scene  :D)  people responsible in consenting sex and neither are responsible for making the other partner(s) choices, but that does not allow nor even intimate that either can abdicate their own responsibility.  Owning and disclosing your status during sexual encounters - particularly bareback sex - is one of them.

I won't pretend I always disclosed in my past so I'm hope my post doesn't come across as higher than thou.   There were online hook-ups, sex parties, and bath houses I went to in New York the first few years after diagnosis that I, like Dave, figured if the person didn't ask I wasn't going to volunteer it.  I made excuses in my head and said that if they were trolling for bareback sex they must be poz themselves.  In hindsight if that was the case than a quick, two-second "You poz too?" question shouldn't have been an issue - but I didn't in those circumstances and admit I was wrong.

I personally am glad that my status is now publicly known.  When I have a profile on a hook-up site it spells out that I'm poz.  A quick search of my name on the internet shows that I have publicly come out as poz in both a video for this site and an interview I did with a local paper in Charlotte.   

I went through too much crap, grief, and panic about my status when it was not public and very guarded, but I have had no panic, no grief, no crap about it since being public. 

Speaking for myself, I think with maturity of both myself and my sense of being poz I can find less to worry about in life in regards to my status and sex - and not dreading someone asking me; not worrying that they will find out; or knowing that I am not doing something wrong in a sexual encounter is one of the greatest benefits of being open about my status.

Edited for clarity (I wrote the original response with me first cup of joe this morning.)
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 08:53:38 AM by Iggy »

Offline mecch

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #72 on: January 07, 2013, 11:14:08 AM »
I do understand that . But still, I believe this is something personal and everyone has the right to its own privacy.

Besides, let's say that an HIV positive person has sex with someone who is negative, and the negative person gets infected. How will the Law determine that it was you who infected the other person and it wasnt anyone else ? There's no way to find  that out.

Like I said before, if they are adults enough to face a sexual relationship, they should be adults enough to face whatever comes after that as well (not only HIV infection, but also  pregnancy and any other STD) . The same way that us, HIV positive people did at some point of our lives.

You can believe whatever you wish. You can act however you want to.

Just be sure you are informed about the laws that are in place. Most people consider these laws completely unhelpful and counterproductive.  But nevertheless they exist. And courts right or wrongly find grounds to imprison people for non-disclosure - so your personal feelings about lack of proof are not protection.

Just be careful and informed, especially since you said you are travelling to the USA. Many states have these laws.

http://criminalhivtransmission.blogspot.ch

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline wolfter

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #73 on: January 07, 2013, 12:16:40 PM »
To be honest many many guys behave exactly like Dave and every time someone like him makes this sort of statement we all throw rocks. Isn't it better to try to understand his reasoning? If you get angry at these kinds of posts then just don't say anything.


So we should just shut up and eat our feelings instead of pointing out errors in the poster's reasoning? 

I hope you study HIV history and become grateful that we became angry about society's attitude towards infection.  Your logic states we should have just sat back and not screamed for advancements?  If I recall, there were lots of rocks thrown around to get our points across.

Don't we have an obligation to protect others even when it's their responsibility to do so?  If someone is driving down a highway and a pedestrian is jaywalking, don't we swerve or slow down in order to avoid harming that person?  Or do we simply plow them over since it was their responsibility to be safe?

Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline Denver Toad

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #74 on: January 07, 2013, 02:21:34 PM »
When I was first diagnosed the first slogan that spoke made sense was "HIV it stops with me".  I related as I didn't want anyone whatsoever to learn they were positive because of my actions. Or lack of actions.

In the years since I, like many if we're honest with ourselves, have wanted to throw responsibility aside and indulge my wants. I can say I never have indulged those desires. And I admit that at times it's hurt me. I've lost lovers, conquests, and I've been rejected. There's been rumors spread, innuendo cast, and gossip over how I was infected. But I can say with pride; I have never infected another since my diagnosis.

http://www.hivstopswithme.org/

Frankly Dave, I have no idea how you live with yourself. How you can glibly say it's not my sole responsibility. If you were infected with syphilis or gonorrhea and the infection would be quickly known and perhaps traced back to you would you be so quick to dismiss your responsibility? If you knew that within a week I could come back and confront you, using whatever means I believed necessary, over the infection you had given me would you still do the same?

I'm parsing words which I do poorly...

If you knew I could and would come back in a week and fuck you up because I knew without a doubt you'd given me the clap; would you give me the clap?
If your actions had direct and immediate consequences would you continue? Or are you hiding behind the anonymity of time and distance? All the while abdicating your responsibility?

HIV, it stops with me. All it takes is one...




Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly,
Kiss slowly, Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile.

Offline Rockin

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Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #75 on: January 07, 2013, 08:18:52 PM »
So we should just shut up and eat our feelings instead of pointing out errors in the poster's reasoning? 

I hope you study HIV history and become grateful that we became angry about society's attitude towards infection.  Your logic states we should have just sat back and not screamed for advancements?  If I recall, there were lots of rocks thrown around to get our points across.

Don't we have an obligation to protect others even when it's their responsibility to do so?  If someone is driving down a highway and a pedestrian is jaywalking, don't we swerve or slow down in order to avoid harming that person?  Or do we simply plow them over since it was their responsibility to be safe?

All I was saying is that getting angry will not get anyone anywhere, not you, nor Dave. I did say I think he is being irresponsible though.

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #76 on: January 07, 2013, 09:36:19 PM »
Don't we have an obligation to protect others even when it's their responsibility to do so?  If someone is driving down a highway and a pedestrian is jaywalking, don't we swerve or slow down in order to avoid harming that person?  Or do we simply plow them over since it was their responsibility to be safe?

Of course most of us would slow down or swerve. The vast majority? I think.

But we are dealing with both an individual and perhaps cultural differences too, with Dave, for example.

I was really surpised by some cultural differences in Switzerland to the US and one directly the same as your analogy about safe driving.  Cause in Switzerland, I do get the impression quite a few drivers would hit a jaywalker and not feel much shame or regret, as the jaywalker "was not following rules". 

I was shocked one time my first or second year teaching, one student got a broken foot jaywalking, cause a car hit him. AND he got a fat fine from the police.  His fault. 

Just interesting to try to take into account different reasons Dave might be saying things that so outrage so many.  There might be provocation going on.  Also, some people arguing on rather different topics without realising it.

 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #77 on: January 07, 2013, 09:49:01 PM »
Dave, we used to hear round about 2000 or so of a young generation of men who had a similar rationale as you do. About the inevitability of HIV, and how they didn't think it was such a big deal, might as well get the infection over with and get on "getting the sex you want" etc etc-

Here in Europe, we said too many of the "boys" in Berlin and Paris thought this way.  Have fun, have the sex you want, if you get HIV, pop the pill, continue on, don't blink, don't over-dramatize. Etc etc.

A year or two ago we had a big discussion in this forum that finally got to the sticky point of - what about the role of being undetectable, or not, in these acts of unprotected sex with willing "strangers in the night". 

I am pretty much guessing that you are on HAART and undetectable, so these acts of unprotected sex with non disclosure are somewhat mitigated in your moral consciousness by the belief that you don't think you are passing HIV because you probably can't.

Meaning, you aren't really the Typhoid Mary that some are saying you are, here.  (Also maybe you are provocatively playing this role, here, in this thread.)

There are nuances to this reasoning of "unprotected and non-disclosure is OK -- because I'm undetectable and both are willing to play this game". 

I used to think more or less like you, for "strangers in the night purposes". 

But now I've come round to the idea that its a bit more generous and respectful to others to say, if bareback is on the offer, just a brief "I'm HIV+ and you?"

But basically this is because I don't give a rats ass if some stranger I might want to bareback with knows I am HIV+. Whereas, you seem to still care if that information gets out there.   In part, you say, because in your culture, being HIV+ is pretty much a TABOO topic.  Or at least, you believe it is Taboo, personally, and your culture affords this.

What a mess.

But at the very least, you had better be aware that other people don't permit this and in some places its against the law (however stupidly) and you could put yourself at great risk criminally, all to protect your "privacy".   And thats not even a discussion of the possibility of transmission or your responsibility to others. 

So at least peruse the websites about criminal transmission before you travel around and screw around outside your protected bubble.

« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 01:27:16 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Hellraiser

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  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: S.E.X.
« Reply #78 on: January 09, 2013, 11:33:42 AM »
The best advice I can give in this thread is to ignore everything that Dave posted.  I've never seen anyone so deluded in all my life.

 


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