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Author Topic: common mindset?  (Read 2123 times)

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Offline wolfter

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common mindset?
« on: December 23, 2012, 05:56:55 PM »
I've been enjoying spending time with my nephew while he's home for Christmas vacation.  He chooses to spend more time with me than his mother. ;D  I've always admired him and continue to do so.  He came out in highschool which I tried to convince him not to.  He suffered hell for it but he chooses to live life honestly.

He's graduating from College in May and is moving to LA as he already has a job lined up.  We were having a discussion about everything and I brought up the entire safe sex thing again.  I've been poz longer than he has been alive and he has witnessed my battles. 

As we discussed it all, he indicated that he's known at least 6 school mates who have tested positive.  I allowed him to elaborate on the mindset of this younger generation.  So many believe the fallacy that this virus is no big deal.  A few pills and you'll live a regular life.  Kinda like what herpies was in prior generations.

I am so disappointed to hear this.  But I guess the upside if there is one, that the stigma has lessened to point where disclosure isn't an issue.  I'm just glad my nephew has witnessed the devastation first hand.  He's very similar to me in that he prefers relationships instead of being a sex hound.  He has heeded my cautions about always being responsible for his own sexual health.   

This isn't new news, but to hear it firsthand is disheartening.
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline weasel

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Re: common mindset?
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2012, 09:47:30 PM »


     Wofter  , i hope your  nephew has a great life .

    It sounds like he is on the way    ;)


                                                        Weasel
" Live and let Live "

Offline texaninnyc87

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Re: common mindset?
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2012, 03:01:26 PM »
As a younger person I have a few things to say about this. Firstly, ever since I was diagnosed EVERYONE (doctors, social workers, counselors, people on here) have told me that basically if you start treatment early HIV is something that you can live a completely normal life with, apart from daily pills and frequent doctors visits. I can't imagine what it must have been like in the pre HAART days and I know that all of that isn't something that can be forgotten, but isn't it possible that this "common mindset" is actually a realistic viewpoint? the reality is, that the way people deal with HIV has changed and the younger generation of gay men don't have positive friends that are very sick and likely wont ever with the continuing advances in HIV therapy. i'm definitely not saying that the virus shouldn't be taken seriously or anything. It's sad that because HIV has become so treatable people dont view it as a real threat. What I am saying is that with times changing and advances being made it is impossible to avoid an inevitable cultural shift on the way people view HIV. A friend of mine recently wrote an article that the Huffington Post picked up about what it's like to be young and positive and got a lot of shit from older generation positive people basically saying what you've just said. Again, i cant imagine all the struggles long term survivors have faced but i think there is a different kind of reality that HIV presents to people who are newly diagnosed that may be hard for some people to accept.
Dxd: 9/11/12
Blot confirmed: 11/12
12/12 cd4: 280 (20%) vl: 129,000
1/13 $tribild
2/13 cd4: 350 (26%) vl: 80
4/13 cd4: 510 (29%) vl:: 35
6/13cd4 350 (31%) vl: 21
9/13 cd4 492 (30%) vl: ud
12/13 cd4 846 (36%) vl: 100
1/14 cd4 480 (31%) vl: UD
3/14 cd4 650 (33%) vl: UD
6/14 cd4 410 (35%) vl: UD
9/14 cd4 439 (38%) vl: UD

Offline LoboDog

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Re: common mindset?
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2012, 03:23:46 PM »
Hey Tex...

You are right... HIV is very treatable now a days and very few people are suffering from complications until they are much older. But there are a couple of issues us old fogies would like the younger generation to realize...

1. This disease is obscenely expensive to treat. A person does well who has insurance, but what if you lose your insurance, switch jobs, want to move to a different state and deal with ADAP...

2. The younger generation has a higher propensity to go off the deep end with drugs. A person who is using is not overly concerned with taking meds...

3. The older generation has usually come across some challenge that makes us realize that we are not invincible. HIV, though treatable, is a chink in your armor.

I am disheartened by the blase attitude towards the disease. I get down right furious when I hear of guys that go out and try to get it or when I hear of guys that knowingly infect others even if it is consensual.

Offline leatherman

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Re: common mindset?
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2012, 03:39:48 PM »
but i think there is a different kind of reality that HIV presents to people who are newly diagnosed that may be hard for some people to accept.
the thing that bothers me about this newer view of the epidemic is that it's all contingent on HAVING the meds. Living in a state that had a waiting list for several years - and had people DIE, both in 2006 and 2011, while waiting on this list - I just think this new view doesn't take into account the reality of acquiring and maintaining access to meds. HIV is still the same terminal disease it's always been. Without meds, it still kills the same way in did in the 80s and 90s. It's only the meds that have made things change. Without the meds, people still die.

but isn't it possible that this "common mindset" is actually a realistic viewpoint?.
My state currently has a 54% death rate from HIV (from 2006 - 2011) - and that's with meds. Because people often go untested for so long, go untreated too long, and have barriers to access meds, while HIV no longer has a death rate of 95+%, the realistic viewpoint is that nearly half of the people diagnosed with HIV/AIDS are still dying in SC.

the reality is, that the way people deal with HIV has changed and the younger generation of gay men don't have positive friends that are very sick and likely wont ever with the continuing advances in HIV therapy.
that's the other part of the "reality" that isn't the reality in SC. here it isn't a disease of only gay men. 47% of all new cases are STRAIGHT, and mostly African-American, with the vast majority of those people being women.

The unrealistic viewpoint of seeing HIV as a disease of gay men who infrequently die because there are plenty of meds available to control it is exactly why the reality in many Southern states is that HIV is a disease killing off over half of the HIV-infected Black, straight women.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline texaninnyc87

  • Member
  • Posts: 247
Re: common mindset?
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2012, 03:46:07 PM »
I suppose I am coming from a very New York perspective about all of this.  8)
Dxd: 9/11/12
Blot confirmed: 11/12
12/12 cd4: 280 (20%) vl: 129,000
1/13 $tribild
2/13 cd4: 350 (26%) vl: 80
4/13 cd4: 510 (29%) vl:: 35
6/13cd4 350 (31%) vl: 21
9/13 cd4 492 (30%) vl: ud
12/13 cd4 846 (36%) vl: 100
1/14 cd4 480 (31%) vl: UD
3/14 cd4 650 (33%) vl: UD
6/14 cd4 410 (35%) vl: UD
9/14 cd4 439 (38%) vl: UD

Offline Denver Toad

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  • Posts: 164
Re: common mindset?
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2012, 06:13:12 PM »
THIS ---->>>> 
Quote
1. This disease is obscenely expensive to treat. A person does well who has insurance, but what if you lose your insurance, switch jobs, want to move to a different state and deal with ADAP...

Add to that list preexisting condition denials and waiting periods. We moved to another state, changed jobs, and I was denied coverage for preexisting condition. Fought BCBS for four months and finally was deemed "eligible" for coverage. In the meantime developed neuropathy in feet. After standing all day at work it hurts to walk. And I can't walk right, my feet hurt more than I ever thought possible. How long will this last? Likely the rest of my life.

So yeah, as long as you have meds life seems pretty good. What happens when you lose those meds? One day it will come down to a choice, the life I want or the pills I need.
Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly,
Kiss slowly, Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: common mindset?
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2012, 06:15:52 PM »
I suppose I am coming from a very New York perspective about all of this.  8)

This point of view is understandable. I live in the Atlanta area and have had a somewhat skewed experience with HIV myself. However, it's important for me to realize that my experiences as a white gay male with an adequate understanding of science and the US social service system is not necessarily reflective, even in my own community, of those without the advantages I have been fortunate to have.

IMHO it's imperative that those of us who, for reasons that have as much to do with luck, geography, and the socioeconomic roulette wheel as any achievement to take up the reigns and become leaders in and for the HIV community. The old guard (and I am seriously close to that designation myself) are dying off, and there are not enough vibrant, young, energetic people to replace them.

What seems to be happening is a corporatization - if that's even a word- of HIV services and treatment. People with little or no understanding of the disease are taking the reigns of ASOs, making funding decisions, and even determining treatment.  The fiscal bottom line, which has always skewed to the detriment of the poor, the disabled, and the mentally disadvantaged, remains our enemy in the developed and developing worlds alike. And if we - meaning those of us living with the virus or who have intimate knowledge of its challenges, don't take up the mantle, it will be taken for us and from us..
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline LoboDog

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Re: common mindset?
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2012, 04:50:10 PM »
I suppose I am coming from a very New York perspective about all of this.  8)

Even from a New York perspective, this disease is devestating. It costs more to treat a person with HIV than most people spend on housing per year. Maybe the younger generation just doesn't see this since they don't think they will have to pay it out of their own pocket...

Offline Jeff G

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  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: common mindset?
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2012, 05:08:26 PM »
I share the optimism the new generation feels about living with HIV , we do have many things to be and look forward too as treatments have improved .

Its also good to not take these things for granted and people have brought up some very good sobering thoughts to keep in mind . Its also worth remembering that not everyone responds well to these new treatments and for some HIV can be just as deadly as it was 30 years ago for these people . Looking at the bright side I guess treatment failure is the exception to the rule and not nearly as common as it used to be , so that's something to be thankful for . 

Offline wolfter

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Re: common mindset?
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2012, 10:01:52 PM »
Perhaps I'm still stuck in the 80's mindset of witnessing so much pain and suffering.  Perhaps I need a paradigm shift? 

Everyone can can talk about us living normal life spans, but we don't know what we will face as elderly LTS.   
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline Iggy

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Re: common mindset?
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2012, 09:48:03 AM »
The topic being discussed puts me the smack in the middle of the grey zone.

Here's another NY perspective:  I do remember the beginning of the AIDS epidemic.  I was too young to know most people who died in the very beginning and was fortunate to escape losing many people myself yet I was a sexually active teen-early 20's during the late 80's and early 90's.   It was before HAART; I saw people with KS and gaunt faces; I knew HIV killed, and still I had bareback sex and became infected. 

So the subject of youth (or any age) who still become infected due to unsafe sex or needle usage is not something I feel I can judge on a moral basis.

But I would be lying if I said it doesn't bother me.  And this may seem really strange (and I have no good reason for this) but I'm almost bothered more by the rationale that the meds will take care of it.  I do gander that it's not HIV specific so much as a prevalent American mindset about health in general (there's a pill for that).


Offline jkinatl2

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Re: common mindset?
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2012, 07:07:28 PM »
The pills are so much better now, and we also have Prep, PEP, the notion of Treatment as Prevention. All these things are wonderful alternatives to the simple notion of shoving condoms at people.
However, my problem with the mindset here is that in the US at least, science often meets the multiple roadblocks of public policy and economics.

How many insurance companies cover Prep? Any? It's a serious question if anyone can answer that.

How can we expect the millions of underinsured/uninsured gay men (and straight men/women)  under the age of 30 to consistently access the medications? Patient Assistance and ADAP will only stretch so far, as we have ghoulishly discovered.

BTW the article I found that addressed this most recently, also addressed it rather vaguely:

http://gaycitynews.com/prep-approved-insurance-coverage-unclear/

And of course, let's not forget that blood work every three to six months is important to stave off potentially horrible organ damage, treatment failure, and other considerations. I know many 30 year olds who don't se a doctor for five years at a time, except for the Urgent Care Clinics. Cost, presumption of health, and all that.

Thing is, times ARE changing. And people's mindsets ARE changing. But the old white men who make, and remake/change the system, change at a far more glacier pace. What concerns me is that people are going to start using a sidewalk whose substantial cracks haven't been filled yet.

In a world when medication/monitoring is available to all - for treatment, prevention, and treatment AS prevention, then this mindset is not only inevitable, it is for the profound advancement of the greater good, and miles in the direction towards the end of AIDS.

People like myself, who applaud the advancements but urge caution when implementing them, are going to have a hard time adjusting, I am sure. I suspect I will have my ass handed to me more than once over my points of view - from both sides of the spectrum.

I just hope that when the dust settles, I'm a crocodile and not a Gracilisuchus.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline leatherman

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Re: common mindset?
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2012, 07:28:23 PM »
I know many 30 year olds who don't se a doctor for five years at a time, except for the Urgent Care Clinics. Cost, presumption of health, and all that.

Thing is, times ARE changing.
hopefully, the Essential Health Benefits component of the ACA (which will vary from state to state somewhat) will change consumer usage as everyone with insurance will be assured some access to preventative care - allowing them to access health care in their early years (20-40) to prevent problems in later yrs (40-70). Eventually we should see younger people accessing health care earlier and more regularly rather than waiting until an issue arises (which is often what happens now because of costs to the consumer)

http://www.kff.org/healthreform/quicktake_essential_health_benefits.cfm
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

 


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