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Author Topic: Double the deaths at Columbine...  (Read 9729 times)

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Offline Miss Philicia

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Double the deaths at Columbine...
« on: December 14, 2012, 01:25:35 PM »
Incredible, isn't it? The latest reporting on this morning's atrocious shooting at an elementary school in western Connecticut is 27 people dead, including 14 very young children.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2012, 01:28:12 PM »


   Some reports have it up to 18 children dead.    This kind of news hurts badly.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline tednlou2

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26 Dead And Counting At Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2012, 01:29:24 PM »
So, will this finally get Congress to at least discuss gun control?  We don't know the situation with the gunman yet, but it's clear too many people have guns, who shouldn't.  The Brady organization says at least 40% of transactions occur without a background check. 

I saw my therapist Wednesday.  We discussed how I witnessed a murder/suicide, while eating at a restaurant around age 6.  We both said it would take a mass school shooting of very young kids, for people to seriously look at this problem.  Again, this gunman may have obtained his gun legally and passed a background check, but there are more controls on prescription drugs than guns.

http://abcnews.go.com/m/blogEntry?id=17974710

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: 26 Dead And Counting At Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2012, 01:32:29 PM »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline WillyWump

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Re: 26 Dead And Counting At Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2012, 01:34:17 PM »
Jesus Fuckin Christ, can we save the Gun control Banter until tomorrow. You people amaze me sometimes.
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Offline WillyWump

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2012, 01:35:42 PM »
Im distraught and franky have been in tears. My thoughts and prayers go out to the Parents, the children, the responders...My heart hurts.

-W
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Offline britchick

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2012, 01:38:47 PM »
Just watching the news now...so hearbreaking and senseless.
My condolences and prayers for everyone who has been affected by this tragedy

Britchickx

Offline tednlou2

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Re: 26 Dead And Counting At Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2012, 01:50:50 PM »
Jesus Fuckin Christ, can we save the Gun control Banter until tomorrow. You people amaze me sometimes.

I've had to take a couple Xanax, because it brings up so much anxiety, so please keep that in mind when telling people what to do.  You're entitled to your opinion, but we always say lets have this conversation in a week or a few months, but it never happens.  Frankly, I feel today is the day to start it.

Offline emeraldize

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2012, 02:12:04 PM »
This one very sad story and so soon on the heels of Oregon and Aurora and, and

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2012, 02:44:41 PM »
ABC News is reporting the gunman's mother was a teacher there and one of the dead.  He's 24. 

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2012, 02:58:01 PM »
If all of this is causing you enough anxiety that you have to pop two xanax then don't you think you should turn the TV off?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline mitch777

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2012, 03:11:39 PM »
yikes!
i was watching tv when it first came on and thought it was only the gunman and maybe the principal.
took a nap and just tuned in to this.
how awful! :'(
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline Growler

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2012, 03:26:14 PM »
Sorry

G
ďIf loving someone is putting them in a straitjacket and kicking them down a flight of stairs, then yes, I have loved a few people.Ē

Offline Joe K

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2012, 03:35:25 PM »
The greatest horror for any parent, is to bury their child.

My deepest condolences to everyone involved.

Joe

Offline wolfter

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Re: 26 Dead And Counting At Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2012, 03:54:57 PM »
Jesus Fuckin Christ, can we save the Gun control Banter until tomorrow. You people amaze me sometimes.

Thank You!!!!!  My sentiments exactly.
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline mitch777

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2012, 04:21:17 PM »
I didn't think the people of this forum were the type to bury their heads in the sand.
Should Bush have not said "we will hunt down those who are responsible" on 9/11?

The inaction of those in politics and the NRA have held this country hostage for too long.

Get over with being angry at those who want to prevent this from happening all too often.

This will continue on and on until something is done about it!
NOW is the time to discuss the issue. :(

PS- it pains me to disagree with some of my friends on this forum, but...

PPS- i think this is the very first time that i admitted that Bush was right about anything.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 04:27:49 PM by mitch777 »
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Offline mitch777

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2012, 05:32:53 PM »
the parents of the dead are dealing with so many emotions that most of us have a hard time even trying to understand.

the cause of this tragedy stems from mental illness.

another taboo subject.

we humans are such slow learners. (me included.) :(

31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline mecch

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2012, 06:44:18 PM »
What's wrong with the public that is not directly involved in this tragedy wanting to discuss gun control when a massacre by a raving gunman takes place?  Right away.  Even people like Obama.

The people surrounding the families and responders involved will pay proper respects and offer the support and condolences.  The public not personally touched, but shocked by such senseless gun deaths, worried about their own loved ones facing such a horrific scene someday, etc, can just as well call a spade a spade and talk about gun control.  I don't think this is nuclear physics. There isn't much need for highbrow constitutional rights and ethics conversations.  Control the freaking guns.

I also fail to see that it is "mental illness" that "caused" the massacre.  Surely the killer is a maniac but he was able to kill because he was a maniac with guns.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2012, 07:31:46 PM »
What's wrong with the public that is not directly involved in this tragedy wanting to discuss gun control when a massacre by a raving gunman takes place?  Right away.  Even people like Obama.

What is there to debate?  Warped minds should not be able to buy guns..
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: 26 Dead And Counting At Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2012, 07:47:48 PM »
Jesus Fuckin Christ, can we save the Gun control Banter until tomorrow. You people amaze me sometimes.

Thank You!!!!!  My sentiments exactly.


Well, with all due respect your reaction to Ted's comment is pure bullshit.

This has been an awful day.  Cling on to your desire to carry weapons all you want, but this tragedy wouldn't have happened as it did if some mentally unstable 20 year old hadn't had access to as many weapons as he did.  I'm sure that all the families and friends of every victim wouldn't appreciate your comments either.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline mikeyb39

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2012, 07:56:37 PM »
This has just been such an emotional day.  I think i sat at work all day in shock, teared up off an on. Really sad.  I think if i were a parent with kids in school i'd have to think twice about home schooling after all of this.
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Offline mitch777

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2012, 07:58:33 PM »
thank you rev.
i really don't want to start a debate or make anyone feel bad about their initial gut reactions.
i think we can all agree that the issue needs to be discussed and we need to demand more reform from our government.
the problems will only get worse until we face them directly.
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline Joe K

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Re: 26 Dead And Counting At Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2012, 08:09:34 PM »
I suggest that any talk of gun control, should be taken to a separate thread.  I agree the discussion needs to happen and today is as good as any day, just not in this thread.

Joe

Offline mitch777

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2012, 08:20:49 PM »
great idea.
thanks!
31 years hiv+ (oct. 2013) with a curtsy.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2012, 08:32:06 PM »
I just found out about the shooting from reading this forum. I have been making it a point lately to spend less time online. Such a horrible tragedy... I just can't imagine what those families are going through.

Offline Jmarksto

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2012, 08:57:36 PM »
I suggest that any talk of gun control, should be taken to a separate thread.  I agree the discussion needs to happen and today is as good as any day, just not in this thread.

Joe
The greatest horror for any parent, is to bury their child.

My deepest condolences to everyone involved.

Joe

Both of these posts are well said.

What a horrible, horrible, day.... The emotional impact for me and I see others, is so  raw, and widespread.  I can't even imagine the pain of the families directly involved and it has clearly affected this community. 

It is clear that this community has compassion (which comes out in different ways for each of us) and it is times like this that deepen my appreciation for this community.

Thank you all for the community, and a big hug,

JM

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Offline WillyWump

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Re: 26 Dead And Counting At Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2012, 09:28:04 PM »

Well, with all due respect your reaction to Ted's comment is pure bullshit.

 

My reply was a response in Tedderz thread (which apparently was merged into this one), expressing my disdain at him launching head first into a chant about gun control before these precious kids bodies were even cold, in essence while it was still unfolding,  without him even expressing any sympathy or thoughts about the kids.  It hit me wrong, it still does. Then I came into this thread which I thought was a completely separate one to express my grief.

Im not for squashing gun control talk in the least bit, I just think that as a group of people cant we come together for a few hours absent of the division and rancor that is already occuring in this thread and in support of and out of respect for these Children and their families? Knowing full well that we will have plenty of days to let the spirited debate that is gun control unfold? Maybe I'm jsut not strong enough to do it right now.

Joe, the voice or reason as always, has the best idea yet...Start a separate gun control thread. Ill see yall over there in the next couple of days.

But I cant let this stand....


 Cling on to your desire to carry weapons all you want,

  I'm sure that all the families and friends of every victim wouldn't appreciate your comments either.


this sir, is utter Bullshit. you dont know how I feel, ESPECIALLY after this incident. I would gladly give up all my guns if only we could have back these kids. I would do anything to not ahve this ahppen ever again. How dare you insinuate that I would ever say something to offend the poor families and friends of the victims. You sicken me with this.

-W
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 09:35:45 PM by WillyWump »
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2012, 09:30:14 PM »
If all of this is causing you enough anxiety that you have to pop two xanax then don't you think you should turn the TV off?

I did just that, after making that last post.  Didn't watch the evening news.  And, I've avoided Facebook as well.

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: 26 Dead And Counting At Elementary School Shooting
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2012, 09:35:44 PM »

You sicken me with this.



Well, you made me quite angry with the way that you worded your reaction.  So if I misread what you wanted to say I apologize.  I simply had a problem with the tone and words that you chose. 

We'll move along.  This very saddening event is bigger than any animosity we may feel for one another. 

"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline thunter34

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2012, 10:01:01 PM »
I'm sorry, Willy, but I was also just now taken aback with the way you responded to teddy (and lots of the rest of us who feel somewhat the same).  The statement he made in reference to gun control IS a direct relfection of feeling for these kids.  Acting as if it is somehow inappropriate to pose the question strikes me as similar to getting indignant toward the suggestion of tougher DUI laws after we've all just heard of some wrong way driver plowing through a family on the freeway.  Why the fuck NOT talk about it now?  How in the hell is it not relevent??  I'm truly baffled.

And besides...waiting for the corpses to get cold sure hasn't stopped the likes of Mike Huckabee from insisting the real reason these children are dead is that we've taken Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezus out of our schools.

If we're going to launch right into speculations of causality, I'd at least like it to be with one tippy toe grounded in reality.

But in any case...I do want to state that I don't think anyone here - myself included - questions your heart where these kids are concerned.  But I absolutely do put myself on the side of tighter gun control.   
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2012, 10:06:38 PM »

And besides...waiting for the corpses to get cold sure hasn't stopped the likes of Mike Huckabee from insisting the real reason these children are dead is that we've taken Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezus out of our schools.

And how does Gov. Huck explain his 17 year old son hanging a dog from a tree?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline thunter34

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2012, 10:43:35 PM »
And how does Gov. Huck explain his 17 year old son hanging a dog from a tree?

Holy crap.  I had forgotten about that.  Excellent point.


I'm sorry if I came off as overly testy in the post above.  I am just very frayed by this incident (like all of us, I'm sure).  I didn't even get the details of it all til I got home this evening, so it's still very fresh for me.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline bocker3

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2012, 10:46:00 PM »
This horrific act just tears me up.  I can't even try to wrap my head around this act -- how does one do this to anyone, let alone a group of children?  If hell exists, I hope there is a special place for this S.O.B.
All day long, I've had an overwhelming desire to hug my grandkids.  I almost drove the 7 hrs to their house after work -- I wish they were closer.

 :'(

Mike
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Offline friskyguy

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2012, 11:22:54 PM »
just woke up to read this.......TRAGIC

don't have the balls to turn on the news channels.

this sickness will repeat it itself time and time again until the people are ready to say enough is enough......and stand together in the streets to pressure those who represent them to ACT!

It's so sad I don't see this happening there!!!!.......a few tears, lots of editorials and political posturing and guess what?.......yep quickly back to business..........

sadly innocents and their families will continue to suffer.......prepare yourself for the next one!!!!!
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Offline friskyguy

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2012, 11:34:43 PM »
Oh yeah and furthermore.......

it puts all the shit that we complain about into perspective doesn't it!!!!!!!
Sero converted Sept '10 / Confirmed + Dec '10
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Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2012, 01:07:22 AM »
Awful, awful shootings.
Terribly tragic and emotionally gut-wrenching.

Here is a good article, and one which I agree with:

"Newtown shootings: if not now, when is the time to talk about gun control?

With 28, including 20 children, shot dead in Connecticut, it's not 'politics' but basic decency to insist America have this debate

Gary Younge

guardian.co.uk, Friday 14 December 2012 19.04 GMT

Friday's mass shooting at Sandy Hook school in Newtown, Connecticut is shocking and horrifying Ė the time and the place of these massacres inevitably catch us unawares. But the fact that another mass shooting has occurred is not shocking, any more than the last one was, or the next one will be.

Just as with the mass killings earlier this year at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin and the Aurora movie theater, near Denver, Colorado, the chorus of empathetic responses that will follow these tragic shootings in Newtown, Connecticut marks a stubborn refrain in a perennial American elegy. Different singers mouthing different words, but basically singing the same song.

Psychological profiles of the shooter emerge, along with portraits of the victims, while the political class closes ranks so that the nation can heal. Incanted tones to sooth a permanent scar.

All rituals serve a purpose. And this one is no different.

This Friday, 28 people are currently reported shot dead, including 20 children. Their families must be given space to mourn, and that space should be respected.

But it does not honour the dead to insist that there must be no room in that space for rational thought and critical appraisal. Indeed, such situations demand both. For one can only account for so many "isolated" incidents before it becomes necessary to start dealing with a pattern.

It is simply not plausible to understand events in Connecticut this Friday without having a conversation about guns in a country where more than 84 people a day are killed with guns, and more than twice that number are injured with them.

Amid all the column inches and airtime now being devoted to these horrific slayings, though, that elephant in the room will remain affectionately patted, discreetly fed and politely indulged. To claim that "this is not the time" ignores the reality that America has found itself incapable of finding any appropriate time to have this urgent conversation. The victims in Newtown, Connecticut deserve at least that. And these tragedies take place everyday, albeit on a smaller scale.

America's president, Barack Obama, understands this. The number of homicide victims in his home town of Chicago this year has outnumbered the fatalities among US troops serving in Kabul.

In response to the Aurora shootings in July, President Obama was right to suspend the routine campaign rhetoric and play the statesman. Nobody wanted to hear about Mitt Romney's tax records and stimulating the economy on that day. There were other days for electioneering, true, but he was wrong to insist on this:


"There are going to be other days for politics. This is a day for prayer and reflection."

Yet that "other day" for debating gun laws never came Ė not at any point in the three months that remained before the election. Even now, right on cue, the president's spokesman, Jay Carney, has intoned the familiar strain that "now is not the time" to talk about gun control.

For what are we to reflect on if not how this, and so many other similar calamities, came about. Those who insist that we should not "play politics" with the victim's grief conveniently ignore that politics is what caused that grief. Not party politics. But a blend of opportunism on the right that flagrantly mischaracterises the issue, and spinelessness on the left that refuses to address it.

Americans are no more prone to mental illness or violence than any other people in the world. What they do have is more guns: roughly, 90 for every 100 people. And regions and states with higher rates of gun ownership have significantly higher rates of homicide than states with lower rates of gun ownership.

The trite insistence that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" simply avoids the reality that people can kill people much more easily with guns than anything else that's accessible. Americans understand this. That's why a plurality supports greater gun control, and a majority thinks the sale of firearms should be more tightly regulated.

The trouble is that people feel powerless to do anything about it. The gun lobby has proved sufficiently potent in rallying opposition to virtually all gun control measures that Democrats have all but given up on arguing for it. In the meantime, the country is literally and metaphorically dying for it.

Gun control is possible. There are both a constituency for it and an argument for it. But it can't happen without a political coalition prepared to fight for it.

If America can twice elect a black president, it can do this."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/14/newtown-school-shootings-gun-control
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Offline WillyWump

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2012, 01:41:18 AM »
desire to hug my grandkids.  I almost drove the 7 hrs to their house after work -- I wish they were closer.

 :'(

Mike

I have this same feeling, I wish my kids and grandaughter were closer...I just want to hug them. I called my 13yo right fter school and told him i loved him and he was all "Ok dad, Ok" :) I talked to my older son and his wife and they are sleeping with my 1 yo Gdaughter tonight and holding her close. I told them to give her a big hug from Grandpa.

I coudlnt sleep, My heart really hurts over this.



Well, you made me quite angry with the way that you worded your reaction.  So if I misread what you wanted to say I apologize.  I simply had a problem with the tone and words that you chose. 

We'll move along.  This very saddening event is bigger than any animosity we may feel for one another. 


We all hurt over this, and while we may have different opinions about how to express it I feel I owe you an apology as well. You dont sicken me, your the last person in this place that sickens me. It's the loss that sickens me and  I lashed out at you for it, im sorry. Lets not tear each other down anymore. Lets come together.

 Hugz?

-W


« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 02:05:30 AM by WillyWump »
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Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2012, 03:49:24 PM »
This is tragic but I wonder what drugs he was taking.  Obviously he was not of sound mind, and it was reported that he had mental issues, which means that he was taking medication that might of drove him to kill these people.
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2012, 04:44:27 PM »
There's now a report (NBC) that Lanza was at this school on Thursday and had an altercation with four staff members -- all targets of his rampage on Friday, and three of which are now dead. The lone surviving staff member of this altercation is being interviewed and may provide a basis for motive.
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Offline Dachshund

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2012, 05:15:44 PM »
This is tragic but I wonder what drugs he was taking.  Obviously he was not of sound mind, and it was reported that he had mental issues, which means that he was taking medication that might of drove him to kill these people.

Even if he had mental issues, it doesn't mean he was taking medication.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2012, 05:48:03 PM »
A man was just on CNN remembering his beautiful daughter Emily ... my heart breaks when I see the photos of the children . He began by remembering the family of the shooter and paying tribute to the pain they must also feel .

To look outside of your self in a time of pain is the mark of something special .

Offline mikeyb39

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2012, 05:55:15 PM »
A dad of one of the small little victims just gave some words on CNN about his beautiful baby girl 6 year old Emilie.  I don't know how he did it to be honest.  I was crying like a little girl myself..

All of this puts life in perspective.  I listened to a teacher that advised she locked the kids in a room while the shooting was happening and she told each of the little kids that she loved them all.  She didn't want the last thing these kids heard were gun shots.   She really is a special person.
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Offline WillyWump

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2012, 08:54:41 PM »
A man was just on CNN remembering his beautiful daughter Emily ... my heart breaks when I see the photos of the children . He began by remembering the family of the shooter and paying tribute to the pain they must also feel .

To look outside of your self in a time of pain is the mark of something special .

That was to get through, very tough.

and yes, what a remarkable man.

I've had to turn off the TV, I feel drained by it all. I'm lucky I'm able to "turn it off", these poor parents will never be able to turn it off.

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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2012, 12:35:25 AM »
We all know these were elementary school children killed, but until they released the names and ages an hour or so ago we didn't know that they all six years old, and a handful of 7. First graders.
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2012, 03:57:04 PM »
Seems as if the mother of Lanza was a doomsday prepper. I don't think we should only consider the mental health of the son. Maybe we should blame Glenn Beck.
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Offline mitch777

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2012, 05:59:28 PM »
have'nt heard a word from anyone yet about the opening of SNL last night.
 :'( :'( :'(
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Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2012, 06:13:39 PM »
It is heart wrenching to look at the photos of all the victims. It is hard to even imagine how someone could look into the eyes of all those young children and shoot them multiple times.

Offline OneTampa

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2012, 06:37:41 PM »
have'nt heard a word from anyone yet about the opening of SNL last night.
 :'( :'( :'(

Opening of SNL with children singing Silent Night: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGx1MP84xlM
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2012, 07:00:46 PM »
Opening of SNL with children singing Silent Night: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGx1MP84xlM

Last night was the first time that I ever cried during SNL.  It was a powerfully, perfect way to start the show.
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2012, 01:16:04 AM »
The SNL open was great.  I am glad they did that, instead of going with a regular cold open.  I am still wondering what Samuel L Jackson's motivation was for dropping the f-bomb and then saying bullshit.  We were wondering if he was making some point that we worry more about curse words on TV, rather than worry about more serious issues.  But, that's a discussion for another day. 

Offline bocker3

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2012, 07:36:40 AM »
The SNL open was great.  I am glad they did that, instead of going with a regular cold open.  I am still wondering what Samuel L Jackson's motivation was for dropping the f-bomb and then saying bullshit.  We were wondering if he was making some point that we worry more about curse words on TV, rather than worry about more serious issues.  But, that's a discussion for another day.

Say what???  Are you getting enough sleep Ted -- you are starting to babble.................?
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Offline WillyWump

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2012, 12:36:16 PM »
I had the TV off for most of the weekend, I jsut couldnt take it anymore. But ahve it on in the background as I work....and once again am in tears with the pictures of the children. I've actually turned it off again.

But I saw a piece about Jack Pinto, who idolized Victor Cruz of the NY Giants. Cruz heard of this and called the parents, and then during the game sunday had jacks name on his gloves, and then wrote Jack Pinto this is for you RIP on his game shoes.  :-\

Bless their little souls.

« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 12:37:55 PM by WillyWump »
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Offline WillyWump

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2012, 12:42:33 PM »
RIP Jack Pinto

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Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2012, 12:53:10 PM »
Heartbreaking.
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2012, 02:17:54 PM »
Say what???  Are you getting enough sleep Ted -- you are starting to babble.................?

You must have just watched the opening of SNL and not the whole show.  Samuel L Jackson was in a skit and said fuck and then said bullshit.  The show obviously has no delay.  I was saying we were puzzled why he did that--whether he was making some statement how people get bent out of shape over curse words, when we should focus on more important things.  Or, whether he just had a case of Tourette's that night. 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqd-MjeNTzc

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #55 on: December 17, 2012, 07:35:02 PM »
Adam Lanza was a vegan... he didn't want to hurt animals.
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Offline Jody

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #56 on: December 17, 2012, 08:29:44 PM »
Maybe because this one was so close to home it has truly left me heartbroken, this horror has been on my mind since it happened.  One little boy, only 6 for crying out loud, was buried today.  Noah Pozner was his name, and his mommy used to say, "Noah, I love you" and he would always, always reply, "Not as much as I love you mommy".  I heard that and I started to cry and I realized it had been a while since I have cried like that.  Sad, but even more than sad because no one word cannot really describe this. :'(
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #57 on: December 17, 2012, 08:34:35 PM »
While obviously I find this incident very distressing, I do wish people paid attention to when several years ago 22 children were killed in Philadelphia. Sure, that was over the course of the entire year but still...
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Offline mitch777

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #58 on: December 17, 2012, 08:45:43 PM »
Maybe because this one was so close to home it has truly left me heartbroken, this horror has been on my mind since it happened.  One little boy, only 6 for crying out loud, was buried today.  Noah Pozner was his name, and his mommy used to say, "Noah, I love you" and he would always, always reply, "Not as much as I love you mommy".  I heard that and I started to cry and I realized it had been a while since I have cried like that.  Sad, but even more than sad because no one word cannot really describe this. :'(

thanks Jody.
i feel the same way.
 :'(
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Offline buginme2

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #59 on: December 17, 2012, 08:54:50 PM »
There really have not been words invented to describe how I feel about this.  The picturues of the two boys whose funerals were today (jake and noah) just make me feel sick.

I can't stop thinking how we failed them.  Our society/country is soo much better than this. 

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #60 on: December 17, 2012, 09:05:11 PM »
Maybe because this one was so close to home it has truly left me heartbroken, this horror has been on my mind since it happened.  One little boy, only 6 for crying out loud, was buried today.  Noah Pozner was his name, and his mommy used to say, "Noah, I love you" and he would always, always reply, "Not as much as I love you mommy".  I heard that and I started to cry and I realized it had been a while since I have cried like that.  Sad, but even more than sad because no one word cannot really describe this. :'(

thanks Jody.
i feel the same way.
 :'(

I've feel the same. I have not cried this much since mom died, and it's rare that I cry at all.  I thought maybe it was just because I have been feeling flu'ish... but I've realized it's the magnitude of it all.

I saw a lady when I was at dinner tonight crying at the scenes from the funeral. It's true what Obama said, Our hearts are broken.

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Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #61 on: December 17, 2012, 10:06:09 PM »
I have had to limit how much I watch of these interviews and memorials. It is just so sad. I am sure it resonates deeply for people who have young children.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 10:07:56 PM by GSOgymrat »

Offline Jody

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #62 on: December 17, 2012, 10:06:28 PM »
The gun access and availability issues aside, all the fine folks on here who have been so knowledgeable and passionate about mental health issues have been right on.  Andy Velez, Tim Horn, killfoile, Ann, Jonathan and others have all been well versed on this issue.  We think nothing of going to the doctor for a physical ailment but we as a society have too long scorned those that need help with mental issues.  We have either chided them or denigrated them or made them feel inferior in ways that are most unfair.  We all need a boost or someone to talk to and feel better in this most important and vital matter of our well being.

These children were gunned down in cold blood, it is sick beyond comprehension.  Little Noah, for one, was shot ELEVEN times!
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Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #63 on: December 17, 2012, 11:23:01 PM »
While obviously I find this incident very distressing, I do wish people paid attention to when several years ago 22 children were killed in Philadelphia. Sure, that was over the course of the entire year but still...

When was that?  I tried to find something on the subject without success.  Some articles about the Atlanta children murders from 79-81 came up (an event that, sadly, has been largely forgotten), but nothing about Philadelphia.
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #64 on: December 17, 2012, 11:30:08 PM »
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Offline weasel

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #65 on: December 18, 2012, 10:17:41 AM »
Maybe because this one was so close to home it has truly left me heartbroken, this horror has been on my mind since it happened.  One little boy, only 6 for crying out loud, was buried today.  Noah Pozner was his name, and his mommy used to say, "Noah, I love you" and he would always, always reply, "Not as much as I love you mommy".  I heard that and I started to cry and I realized it had been a while since I have cried like that.  Sad, but even more than sad because no one word cannot really describe this. :'(

  I'm with Jody on this .

    Yesterday  I drove past the Church in Fairfield , Connecticut where the first funeral was taking place . It  hit me like a ton of bricks . I had to pull over a mile down the road  then cried my eyeballs out  :'(
  The hundreds of people with white balloons put me over the edge .
 OMG ! Everyone is so upset , Newtown / Sandy Hook is only 20 minutes away and some of these families have Fairfield  roots .
   Last night they had a candle light vigil at the town green across from the church .
 It is a very sad event . 
                                                                                           Carl   

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Offline J.R.E.

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #66 on: December 18, 2012, 12:39:37 PM »
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #67 on: December 18, 2012, 07:43:22 PM »
I posted a youtube clip in the What to do about guns thread.  It was an ABC News experiment after Virginia Tech, where they armed students with fake guns to see what would happen if a gunman came into the room.  My friend from Harvard messaged me to say the video is gone. 

I can't find it by Google.  Not sure if abc pulled it or can't access on mobile.  Y'all help?  He goes to Harvard, he should be able to find.  He is using it for some project.  It was on 2020 and called If I only had my gun or a gun.  Aired in 2009?

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #68 on: December 18, 2012, 08:52:18 PM »
Fear of being committed may have caused Lanza to snap.

After interviews with friends of the family they believe the mother was petitioning the court for conservatorship to commit her son involuntarily.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/18/fear-being-committed-may-have-caused-connecticut-madman-to-snap/
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Offline WillyWump

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #69 on: December 18, 2012, 09:01:14 PM »
I saw this on Nightly News, Anne Curry has a great Idea...

26 Acts of Kindness to honor those lost.

Doesnt matter how small, even if it's just giving up your seat on the bus to someone else.

In this way we can honor, Noah, Jack and the 24 others lost  ;)

I might take some old jackets of mine and give to the homeless tomorrow.


http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/17/15972814-inspired-to-act-26acts-of-kindness-to-honor-those-lost-in-newtown-conn?lite

Who's in???
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 09:06:30 PM by WillyWump »
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #70 on: December 18, 2012, 09:08:38 PM »
Fear of being committed may have caused Lanza to snap.

I could see that happening to you.
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Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #71 on: December 18, 2012, 09:11:01 PM »
Fear of being committed may have caused Lanza to snap.

After interviews with friends of the family they believe the mother was petitioning the court for conservatorship to commit her son involuntarily.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/18/fear-being-committed-may-have-caused-connecticut-madman-to-snap/

It has been nothing but speculation when it comes to this man and the story behind him. I saw a "news" story yesterday claiming that his mother owned all those weapons because she believed the world was coming to an end.  It's as if some of these media outlets just want to get readers/viewers by stirring up sensationalism. 

For all we know we may never really learn the "why" of this tragedy.
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Offline WillyWump

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #72 on: December 18, 2012, 09:21:29 PM »
It has been nothing but speculation when it comes to this man and the story behind him. I saw a "news" story yesterday claiming that his mother owned all those weapons because she believed the world was coming to an end.  It's as if some of these media outlets just want to get readers/viewers by stirring up sensationalism. 

For all we know we may never really learn the "why" of this tragedy.

While it's true this may not be the reason, I believe we will have a good idea  of the motive as the State Police Lt.  who does all the briefings keeps saying they have "very good evidence" about motive. I dont think the State Police would speak in those terms on national TV if it were not the case.

« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 09:23:53 PM by WillyWump »
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Offline Iggy

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #73 on: December 18, 2012, 09:25:38 PM »
I read (anonymously) the gun violence thread.   I just posted this as a comment on another person's thread on G+.  For what it's worth -I thought I share this rambling idea of where we are as far as a society in this time.

Many years ago, when I was of an attractive appearance and age I saw a movie called Grand Canyon (Kevin Kline was in it). The movie itself is a disappointing and a throw-away, but it intimated something great.  There was a scene, a montage of sorts,  when all these people who survived bad things happening to them, or at least events causing them pause and just seemed to stop for a moment and be lost in thought - and you, the viewer were given this sense of elation of feeling that the movie was going to go there - to dwell upon that which is wrong in society (whatever the wrong is) and show that we have to do something different.

Instead the movie, which was just a movie after all  had a cliche ending and immediately backed away from groundbreaking to banal.

The point of my little expositional comment?

There is no easy "cause" to what's going on.  Please understand that I hate guns and feel that the 2nd amendment as invoked today is a tragedy and, frankly, I would be in favor of revoking it - but I, in my gut, feel it's more than guns.

Yes - they are the most easily fingered, painfully destructive mechanism/device/cause of our pain - but there is so much more going on and bubbling beneath the surface.

We are no longer happy.

We don't strive for better ideals and goals that are attainable for ourselves.  We strive for crassness and mockery of the best of us that can be summed up in 30 second ads.

We hate.  Outwardly.  In actions.

If I have one wish.  It would be that the Mayans were right.  Let our world end on December 21st.  Not THE world, but ours.  Our world of global crassness and global impatience.  Global distrust and global isolationism - and when I say global it is that it happens worldwide  but the practice is most often in the most intimate and localized of situations. 

In other words - this is not about a mechanical instrument that enables humans to kill each other with ease, but a pyschological devastation of our sense of self as humans that has aided us in destroying one another 1 on 1 to mass murder - and I hope/dream/wish in a Mayan prophecy where our "world" ends - and a new begins - one with us loving each other and the circumstances we all coexist within together a little more broadly and equitably as brothers and sisters.  but

Offline Cliff

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #74 on: December 19, 2012, 02:58:59 PM »
What?

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #75 on: December 19, 2012, 08:03:20 PM »
In Newtown, Nancy Lanza a subject of sympathy for some, anger for others

So how do you fine folks think about this news article?
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Offline mecch

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #76 on: December 19, 2012, 08:11:42 PM »
Lots of mysteries for the moment.
Was she a prepper?
Why have guns with an angry, screwed up, and socially isolated son around?
Why teach that son to shoot?
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Offline wolfter

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #77 on: December 19, 2012, 08:13:36 PM »
In Newtown, Nancy Lanza a subject of sympathy for some, anger for others

So how do you fine folks think about this news article?

Oh no I won't, I'm heeding mother Ann's words of warning. ;) 
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline mitch777

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #78 on: December 19, 2012, 08:17:10 PM »
Oh no I won't, I'm heeding mother Ann's words of warning. ;)

LOL! We better be good....... :D
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #79 on: December 19, 2012, 08:44:05 PM »
Oh no I won't, I'm heeding mother Ann's words of warning. ;) 

It's not a "gun debate" -- it's simply about how we should consider the death of the mother. She may have been negligent (though we still don't know the details) but she was still a person.

Ann would have locked this thread too if she hadn't wanted any further discussion of the entire topic, her aim was just about gun control pro/con, etc.
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Offline WillyWump

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #80 on: December 19, 2012, 08:54:04 PM »
In Newtown, Nancy Lanza a subject of sympathy for some, anger for others

So how do you fine folks think about this news article?

I am swinging more towards being angry at her, there is some sympathy but my anger outweighs it.
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #81 on: December 19, 2012, 09:09:40 PM »
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #82 on: December 19, 2012, 10:41:54 PM »
I am swinging more towards being angry at her, there is some sympathy but my anger outweighs it.

'Tis easy to be angry at her with the help of 20/20 hindsight. 

I have no idea how her son was, day to day prior to that awful day.  I have no idea what their relationship was like.  So, yeah I have lots of questions, but I will assume that she did the best she could, until I find out differently.

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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #83 on: December 19, 2012, 11:04:28 PM »
'Tis easy to be angry at her with the help of 20/20 hindsight. 

I have no idea how her son was, day to day prior to that awful day.  I have no idea what their relationship was like.  So, yeah I have lots of questions, but I will assume that she did the best she could, until I find out differently.

M

It's a bad situation -- single mother and all of that. And, of course, it's possible she had all of her firearms totally locked up.
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #84 on: December 19, 2012, 11:39:09 PM »
In Newtown, Nancy Lanza a subject of sympathy for some, anger for others

So how do you fine folks think about this news article?

I am waiting for more info.  Having said that, I do wonder why she would have these weapons with a kid who by all accounts was very troubled.  It is being reported she took him target shooting to teach him responsibility.  And, if she had them locked up, I hope we find out how he got access.  It has been reported she was shot in bed.  If this is true, I don't see how he could have held a knife to her throat until she gave him the key.  I suppose there will be no way to know what really happened.  How could we ever really know?  And, we are finding out many of the reports are not true. 

Even if she was grossly negligent, she doesn't deserve to be in the same category as her son.  I have a hard time looking at him as someone to be hated.  I don't see how anyone in their right mind could do something like this.  To hate someone for doing something awful would require the person to have all their faculties and still be just evil, for me.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #85 on: December 20, 2012, 12:24:59 AM »
How could we ever really know?  And, we are finding out many of the reports are not true. 


The reporting sucks, because it's "in the moment" and was dependent on social media (as in the erroneous fingering of Ryan, not Adam, Lanza initially). News media rushes to judgement which is why I try and source my information from a variety of sources, and NOT CNN/NBC/ABC/FOX. Assuredly the forensic scientists will make the final more accurate report, which may not show up for weeks. I wouldn't be surprised if the father divorced her because she went totally over the edge with this Doomsday Prepper stuff. He's a VP of a big financial firm in Stamford, not a wacko. Same with the older son.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 12:28:54 AM by Miss Philicia »
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Offline mecch

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #86 on: December 20, 2012, 06:25:28 AM »
  I have a hard time looking at him as someone to be hated.  I don't see how anyone in their right mind could do something like this.  To hate someone for doing something awful would require the person to have all their faculties and still be just evil, for me.

That's the perennial question. 

Personally I find this reference to "evil" unsettling and unsatisfactory.  People use it at times like this to help make sense of a criminal act or a criminal mind, and of horrors that defy sense, logic - defy our "normal" peoples' understanding of what's possible in this world.

If evil means "profound immorality" or shockingly bad or harmful acts, then yeah evil describes these sociopaths and their actions. 

When I hear the word evil in such situations I often quickly get images and references and stories that are based on religion, literature, and so much popular culture flooding my brain.  And then it gets murky. 

Its not that I won't let myself believe in meanings based on the supernatural.  But I don't want of rely on timeless and spaceless forces (good, evil, etc) (beyond our control...), to explain, at the expense of rational explanations and rational responses and rational prevention of such "evil" in the world.





   
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 12:46:38 PM by mecch »
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #87 on: December 20, 2012, 07:52:27 AM »
I am waiting for more info.  Having said that, I do wonder why she would have these weapons with a kid who by all accounts was very troubled.  It is being reported she took him target shooting to teach him responsibility.  And, if she had them locked up, I hope we find out how he got access.  It has been reported she was shot in bed.  If this is true, I don't see how he could have held a knife to her throat until she gave him the key.  I suppose there will be no way to know what really happened.  How could we ever really know?  And, we are finding out many of the reports are not true. 

Even if she was grossly negligent, she doesn't deserve to be in the same category as her son.  I have a hard time looking at him as someone to be hated.  I don't see how anyone in their right mind could do something like this.  To hate someone for doing something awful would require the person to have all their faculties and still be just evil, for me.
And just why is it so important for the public to know all this?? To be able to have someone to "blame" for his actions?  I am sure whatever the situation in that home was -- this woman did not think her son would shoot her and then shoot up an elementary school.  HE DID IT -- for whatever reason, HE DID IT -- NOT HIS MOTHER.  Trying to demonize her, will not bring back those 20 children.  I am sure that there are thousands of parents who target shoot with their children -- with no mass murders resulting.
We go on about the media feeding us "bad info" in 24/7 news cycles -- yet WE are consuming it -- that is why they are reporting it.  We feel like we must know every minute detail.  Her relationship with her son is none of my business (or yours).  Mourn the dead, including her, but try to leave the hindsight outrage in check.  I'm sure that everyone here would love to be able to go back in time and make some different decisions -- but we can't.

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Offline Jeff G

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #88 on: December 20, 2012, 08:07:54 AM »
I have been moved to tears on more than one occasion watching the coverage of what happened to these family's . Many times the family's that have lost children face the camera and send condolences to the shooters family . If they can do this during their time of grief and loss is it too much to expect a little of the same for those of us trying to come to terms with what happened that are merely commenters .   

We as voters and society carry as much blame for these terrible events if you really want to start pointing fingers .

Offline zach

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #89 on: December 20, 2012, 11:27:32 AM »
when obama gave that very moving speech, he read the names of all victims, except nancy lanza. interpret that however you want. with the media hungry for every imagined detail to feed its 24 hour news cycle, there will be plenty of scape goats in the days to come.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #90 on: December 20, 2012, 12:23:35 PM »
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #91 on: December 20, 2012, 02:53:54 PM »
And just why is it so important for the public to know all this?? To be able to have someone to "blame" for his actions?  I am sure whatever the situation in that home was -- this woman did not think her son would shoot her and then shoot up an elementary school.  HE DID IT -- for whatever reason, HE DID IT -- NOT HIS MOTHER.  Trying to demonize her, will not bring back those 20 children.  I am sure that there are thousands of parents who target shoot with their children -- with no mass murders resulting.
We go on about the media feeding us "bad info" in 24/7 news cycles -- yet WE are consuming it -- that is why they are reporting it.  We feel like we must know every minute detail.  Her relationship with her son is none of my business (or yours).  Mourn the dead, including her, but try to leave the hindsight outrage in check.  I'm sure that everyone here would love to be able to go back in time and make some different decisions -- but we can't.

M

I disagree.  It would be helpful, and a reminder to many, that you need to keep your guns locked up regardless, but especially if you live with someone who is troubled.  I have to be careful to not take this in a gun control direction.  I know I would like to know how he got access to these weapons.  If he over-powered her and forced her to hand over the key or combination, then I think many who hate her would have more understanding.  If she just left them laying around, when family friends were reporting she was deeply concerned with him and feeling like she was losing him, then I think her negligence (if that proves to be true) would help in the conversation how to deal with guns in a house with someone mentally ill. 

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #92 on: December 20, 2012, 04:57:10 PM »
I wonder if he was influence by others that he might of met on the web.  The way he'd destroyed his computer was as if he was hiding information not only of his web sites of interest but maybe messages from people leading him into this direction.  Hopefully there is enough data left for investigators to have more of an idea of what made him shoot people.  I suspect it may have to do with the Mayan Calender or some other End-of-the World scenario.  Possible he thought he was saving them from a horrible death, although it is interesting that he did not leave a note
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Offline anniebc

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #93 on: December 20, 2012, 05:27:25 PM »
I have been moved to tears on more than one occasion watching the coverage of what happened to these family's . Many times the family's that have lost children face the camera and send condolences to the shooters family . If they can do this during their time of grief and loss is it too much to expect a little of the same for those of us trying to come to terms with what happened that are merely commenters .   

We as voters and society carry as much blame for these terrible events if you really want to start pointing fingers .

Thank you Jeff.

Thanks also to Bocker, post #82.

 To all those who are blaming his mother, why?..this is one of those sad situations where we may never really know the truth about why her son did what he did, you don't know how she felt about her son, or how he felt towards her, it's so easy for you to blame those who can't defend themselves isn't it!

In sadness for ALL who died that day and the families they left behind.

Jan :'(
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Offline WillyWump

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #94 on: December 20, 2012, 06:22:18 PM »
Thank you Jeff.

Thanks also to Bocker, post #82.

 To all those who are blaming his mother, why?..this is one of those sad situations where we may never really know the truth about why her son did what he did, you don't know how she felt about her son, or how he felt towards her, it's so easy for you to blame those who can't defend themselves isn't it!

In sadness for ALL who died that day and the families they left behind.

Jan :'(

I was basing my blame on the unconfirmed report that she took him to gun ranges to shoot the automatic weapons.

Now, I may have jumped the gun since the report is unconfirmed. But if it is confirmed, then I absolutely will blame her for that aspect of it. IF she knew he had some difficulties, which may be evidenced by her petitioning court for guardianship (another unconfirmed) and then took him to practice shooting then I blame her for that. yes I do.

I guess I will ahve to wait for final report to direct blame and anger.

btw, today I did Random act of kindness #1 - I let an elderly lady go before me in line at the post office.  That one was for Noah.  ;D
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 06:24:22 PM by WillyWump »
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #95 on: December 20, 2012, 06:24:09 PM »
I disagree.  It would be helpful, and a reminder to many, that you need to keep your guns locked up regardless, but especially if you live with someone who is troubled.  I have to be careful to not take this in a gun control direction.  I know I would like to know how he got access to these weapons.  If he over-powered her and forced her to hand over the key or combination, then I think many who hate her would have more understanding.  If she just left them laying around, when family friends were reporting she was deeply concerned with him and feeling like she was losing him, then I think her negligence (if that proves to be true) would help in the conversation how to deal with guns in a house with someone mentally ill.

Ted,
Come on now -- with you obsessive television news watching, I find it hard to believe that YOU want to know so that OTHERS will have a conversation.  It doesn't make sense.  Do you think people who own guns don't know they should be locked up??  You can sit here and judge this woman all you want, but you will never know what went on between her and her son that day or all the days before that one.  You are simply trying to find some blame to place -- at least that is what it looks like from reading your posts.  She owned guns, that makes her bad is how I'm reading it and you want PROOF so that you can blame and hate her.
Anyone who is a parent knows that despite your best efforts, things can go awry -- that doesn't make it the parent's fault.  She deserves to rest in peace.

Once you have parented a "troubled" person and did so perfectly -- then, maybe, you can sit in judgment.

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Offline bocker3

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #96 on: December 20, 2012, 06:29:29 PM »
I was basing my blame on the unconfirmed report that she took him to gun ranges to shoot the automatic weapons.

Now, I may have jumped the gun since the report is unconfirmed. But if it is confirmed, then I absolutely will blame her for that aspect of it. IF she knew he had some difficulties, which may be evidenced by her petitioning court for guardianship (another unconfirmed) and then took him to practice shooting then I blame her for that. yes I do.

I guess I will ahve to wait for final report to direct blame and anger.

btw, today I did Random act of kindness #1 - I let an elderly lady go before me in line at the post office.  That one was for Noah.  ;D

Are there things you wish you could go back in time and undo as you look backwards at parenting decisions?  I know that I do -- but I can't. 
The woman is dead -- at her son's hands, how people can try and blame her is simply behind my ability to comprehend.  Be angry at HIM, he shot his mother, he shot those teachers and he shot all those children.  I will not ever buy into the notion of "People don't kill people -- their mother does."

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Offline WillyWump

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #97 on: December 20, 2012, 06:32:54 PM »
Are there things you wish you could go back in time and undo as you look backwards at parenting decisions?  I know that I do -- but I can't. 
The woman is dead -- at her son's hands, how people can try and blame her is simply behind my ability to comprehend.  Be angry at HIM, he shot his mother, he shot those teachers and he shot all those children.  I will not ever buy into the notion of "People don't kill people -- their mother does."

Mike

Oh I'm angry at him too, trust me.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 06:35:07 PM by WillyWump »
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Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #98 on: December 20, 2012, 10:54:58 PM »
Either way, the mother's state of mind will be questioned and examined.
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Offline Jeff G

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #99 on: December 20, 2012, 11:16:20 PM »
Either way, the mother's state of mind will be questioned and examined.

I bet you are right , she probably would have handled it differently had she known she was going to be shot during naptime and then her son was going to massacre 20 or so children .  ::) .

As a parent she probably would rather be dead than have to live with this .

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #100 on: December 20, 2012, 11:27:26 PM »
I bet you are right , she probably would have handled it differently had she known she was going to be shot during naptime and then her son was going to massacre 20 or so children .  ::) .

As a parent she probably would rather be dead than have to live with this .
I mean she will be blamed and accused.  It may come out that she was mentally unstable.  Whatever, it just "Manna from Heaven" for the media.
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #101 on: December 21, 2012, 12:42:39 AM »
It seems she may have been making moves to have Adam committed to a psychiatric facility and that's what set him off on this rampage. If that's the case, then absolutely the mother is not to blame, and doing so is repugnant.
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #102 on: December 21, 2012, 02:08:52 AM »
It seems she may have been making moves to have Adam committed to a psychiatric facility and that's what set him off on this rampage. If that's the case, then absolutely the mother is not to blame, and doing so is repugnant.

There's an update on this link, saying a friend says she was not planning to have him committed.  There is just so much conflicting info right now. 

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #103 on: December 21, 2012, 02:58:17 PM »
It seems she may have been making moves to have Adam committed to a psychiatric facility and that's what set him off on this rampage. If that's the case, then absolutely the mother is not to blame, and doing so is repugnant.

What mother takes her son target shooting if she knows he has mental issues severe enough to cause her to want to have him committed? = does not compute. btw, a 223 Bushmaster is not all that easy to just pick up and use and be comfortable with without prior instruction.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 03:05:31 PM by WillyWump »
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Offline Jody

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #104 on: December 21, 2012, 04:10:04 PM »
Still a hole in my heart hurting from this awful deed.   :(

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Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #105 on: December 21, 2012, 10:52:17 PM »
Still a hole in my heart hurting from this awful deed.   :(

Jody
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Offline zach

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #106 on: December 22, 2012, 12:41:02 AM »
All of this speculation about Lanza's medical condition is just that, pure speculation. No opinion from an expert in the media who never treated Lanza counts as a reliable source. None of you know if Lanza had a diagnosed illness of any kind. Demonizing people with mental illness is no different that demonizing people with HIV/AIDS.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #107 on: December 22, 2012, 12:47:19 AM »
What mother takes her son target shooting if she knows he has mental issues severe enough to cause her to want to have him committed? = does not compute. btw, a 223 Bushmaster is not all that easy to just pick up and use and be comfortable with without prior instruction.

The same people with a diagnosis of mental health, past suicide issues, but then think it's fine to still own a gun years later. Think of all the vets returning from war -- it's well known that many (rightfully so) have mental issues from what they have endured, but I'd bet money they still have multiple guns and go hunting, etc.
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #108 on: December 22, 2012, 12:51:11 AM »
All of this speculation about Lanza's medical condition is just that, pure speculation. No opinion from an expert in the media who never treated Lanza counts as a reliable source. None of you know if Lanza had a diagnosed illness of any kind. Demonizing people with mental illness is no different that demonizing people with HIV/AIDS.

Many people never are diagnosed. That's why there are forensic mental health professionals.

Plus he very well may have had mental health relationship(s) with a physician and it just not surfaced in the news due to client privilege, at least until the entire investigation is complete.

ps: I've seen a therapist and psychiatrist now for 12 years -- I do not stigmatize this issue.
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Offline zach

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #109 on: December 22, 2012, 12:59:54 AM »
a talking head on the news isn't quite the same as a forensic expert with access to evidence

there are those here that have expressed anger at the mother. the first victim, a women murdered in her bed while she slept. think about that for a moment.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #110 on: December 22, 2012, 01:06:05 AM »
All of this speculation about Lanza's medical condition is just that, pure speculation. No opinion from an expert in the media who never treated Lanza counts as a reliable source. None of you know if Lanza had a diagnosed illness of any kind. Demonizing people with mental illness is no different that demonizing people with HIV/AIDS.

I don't want to demonize him.  In fact, I think it is wrong to do so, because no one in their right mind could do something like this, IMHO.  I actually feel sorry for what he was dealing with.  Many would be sickened by any sympathy for him.  I feel the same way about child molesters.  Even though I may be sickened by what they did, I think they are obviously mentally sick.  I don't think a "normal" person is interested in 5 year-olds.  We often view people who commit crimes as being of sound mind.  We view them as if they were mentally healthy and committed the crimes anyway.


Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #111 on: December 22, 2012, 11:31:12 AM »
I don't want to demonize him.  In fact, I think it is wrong to do so, because no one in their right mind could do something like this, IMHO.  I actually feel sorry for what he was dealing with.  Many would be sickened by any sympathy for him.  I feel the same way about child molesters.  Even though I may be sickened by what they did, I think they are obviously mentally sick.  I don't think a "normal" person is interested in 5 year-olds.  We often view people who commit crimes as being of sound mind.  We view them as if they were mentally healthy and committed the crimes anyway.

I have no problem demonizing the rotten bastard.   I actually hope there is a hell that he lays in now, feeling every tickle of fiery brimstone as it licks his toes. 
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #112 on: December 22, 2012, 02:46:47 PM »
I have no problem demonizing the rotten bastard.   I actually hope there is a hell that he lays in now, feeling every tickle of fiery brimstone as it licks his toes.

How can you say this??  We need to be sympathetic -- afterall, he, like Hitler and Pol Pot, could not have been in their right minds.  We must demonize their mothers instead.

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Offline tednlou2

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Re: Double the deaths at Columbine...
« Reply #113 on: December 22, 2012, 03:17:58 PM »
I don't want to see his mother demonized either.  But, I think we can be critical and dumbfounded of choices, without demonizing someone.  Sandusky's wife was demonized.  I was critical that I thought she should have known what was happening in her own home. 

We are critical of many people.  People who leave their young child in a tub full of water and the child drowns.  A parent who leaves their child in a hot car, even though they are devastated their child is dead.  A parent who leaves a child in a running car and the kid puts it into gear and runs over people.  In this case, it appears her negligence was high-powered, military style weapons, instead of a car or tub full of water. 

I realize that all of us make bad choices and things like this could easily happen to many of us, but people have the right to question our bad choices/mistakes.  We could just choose to not question why and how.  I think more parents are careful to make sure they don't leave their kids in a hot car.  Instead of being critical to just be critical, I hope this will cause gun owners to be more responsible with their guns.  We don't know how he got access to them, but we know he did get access and knew how to use them. 

If she really was murdered in bed, this would seem to indicate they were not secured.  I'm sorry, but I have to question why.  Why no gun safe with a combination lock?  Why not keep them in a gun locker at her shooting range.  I've heard friends with guns say many shooting ranges have these.  I have no idea whether this is true or available at most places.  She wouldn't need ready access to a military style rifle during a home invasion.  To answer a previous question, this is why I and others would like to know and why it is our business. 

 


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