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Author Topic: Drug testing for welfare recipients  (Read 2697 times)

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Offline Buckmark

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Drug testing for welfare recipients
« on: November 19, 2012, 01:50:32 PM »
Here we go again.  The State of Texas is now proposing to require welfare and unemployment recipients to pass drug tests in order to receive benefits. 

http://www.statesman.com/ap/ap/texas/perry-dewhurst-to-discuss-welfare-reform/nS5Hx/

This panders to the conservatards who really wish there were no welfare or unemployment programs at all.  Other states have already proven that it is not cost-effective to do these tests.

But... if we're going to have drug tests for welfare and unemployment recipients, why not test others who receive government benefits?  How about the legislators themselves?  How about the office of private corporations who receive tax breaks, or payments to build / relocate businesses in the state?

What a load of crap.  And, once again, Texas governor Rick Perry says he wants smaller government, except for when he wants to expand it.
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2012, 02:08:54 PM »
I am sick of seeing the Facebook posts, and some coming from people who are otherwise fairly progressive.  Even though studies showed 96% passed in Florida, they keep pushing this.  And, it is based on race.  But, not totally. 

What drives me nuts, and causes me to get into arguments, is how people are obsessed by this, but a few trillion in Iraq isn't on their radar.  I guess that's too complicated. 

Offline thunter34

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2012, 02:16:09 PM »
THIS.    This is one of the biggest things that gripes me so much about the conservatives.  To hear them tell it, the liberals are all about class warfare.  But they are the ones who are constantly starting this crap - over and over.

What people somehow repeatedly fail to see is that what they are doing - besides demonizing a group of people - is getting people to surrender their own rights voluntarily by way of frenzy.  You start by pointing the finger at the less desirables, and then set the precedent for the same thing to happen to you later on.
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Offline leatherman

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2012, 02:30:32 PM »
What people somehow repeatedly fail to see is that what they are doing ... is getting people to surrender their own rights voluntarily by way of frenzy.
not only that; but I ask employed people why they put up with random drug testing in the first place? If you're doing your job correctly and having no accidents, what does it matter? If you screw up, and a test finds you have illegal substances in your body, then you get the boot. Otherwise people are actually putting up with their employers saying we don't trust you and we think you are a drug addict - prove that you're not, prove that what you do on your own time somehow influences your job performance.

the war on drugs has never worked and random, pre-employment, and before-receiving-benefit testing is all a waste of time, money, and human dignity.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


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Offline thunter34

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2012, 03:10:55 PM »
not only that; but I ask employed people why they put up with random drug testing in the first place? If you're doing your job correctly and having no accidents, what does it matter? If you screw up, and a test finds you have illegal substances in your body, then you get the boot. Otherwise people are actually putting up with their employers saying we don't trust you and we think you are a drug addict - prove that you're not, prove that what you do on your own time somehow influences your job performance.

the war on drugs has never worked and random, pre-employment, and before-receiving-benefit testing is all a waste of time, money, and human dignity.

Agreed.  And this is the same type of thing I was alluding to above.  The cry was heard:  "If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about, do you?  Only those nasty addicts will have a problem."

But the problem is - or SHOULD have been - the principle.  Employment is an EXCHANGE...your services for their money.  You are not obligated to bow down a grovel just for being hired.  And you certainly shouldn't have been expected to essentially let these people INTO your body PRIOR to even being in said exchange.

Fast forward to today, and there are new spectres thanks to increased technology.  For example, there are now saliva drug tests that employers can use.  Problem is...that saliva test can also tip off employers to the potential for cancer, arthritis, heart disease, etc.  All of these are good reasons employers may decide on the sly not to hire someone.  But hey...we gave them the go ahead to get in there, right?

Point is:  you start buying into these rallying cries (and they always start off directed at some perceived less desirable group), and it can - and probably will - come back to bite you in the ass.

People should have collectively REFUSED to allow those drug tests to become standard.  They should have REFUSED to allow companies to demand to know your previous salary history.  But as corporations were given more and more power, the common man felt left with less and less leverage to argue against it.  People became too afraid to say no, lest they lose opportunities for employment.

Now we are stuck with it. 

AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2012, 03:19:46 PM »
The whole thing is counter intuitive . Drug testing people on assistance is just another swipe by the GOP at the people who they identify as wanting stuff from the government .

Its true some people have drug problems and are on assistance but they may also be people who get sick or have children that need to be fed , so the requirement that you must test and be drug free is going to cause collateral damage to those few family's who get kicked off assistane for food stamps and medicaid .

 I read that the legislation allows people who fail the drug test to get rehab at the expense of medicaid . Its my hope that if this law is passed any one who has a drug problem and wants rehab but cant afford it goes and applies for food stamps just to get the free rehab ... that will teach the fuckers .

Offline thunter34

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2012, 03:39:03 PM »
Oh...one other GENIUS piece of legislation in Georgia.

If you are ever convicted of a drug crime in Georgia - that means even busted with a little pot just once - you lose the ability to get food stamp assistance FOR LIFE.

Bear in mind that a paroled murderer can still get it.  Child molesters can still get it.

But not Johnny who happened to get popped on his way back from a Grateful Dead concert back in the early 90's.

The real aim of all that is to cut off minorities mostly, but still it carries over to everyone.  But of course, it's more likely to be the minority pops who can't afford proper representation to avoid getting really popped in court.

They are then left not only with no food stamp support, but an almost insurmountable hill to climb to get any meaningful employment ever.  So in desperation, they often...sell drugs.

Lather.  Rinse.  Repeat.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Online buginme2

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2012, 03:39:28 PM »


the war on drugs has never worked and random, pre-employment, and before-receiving-benefit testing is all a waste of time, money, and human dignity.

Here, here!

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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2012, 03:44:58 PM »
I think you're all missing the point about this stuff. It's actually about money, meaning that the state contracts out to a private company, the owner of same is a Republican donor, and it all ends up costing the tax payer more than any supposed drug user/welfare recipient costs. And then the side benefit of doing this drug testing is that it panders to a certain segment of voters that are obsessive about fictitious Cadillac-driving welfare queens.

It's like the uptick of private contractors for Pentagon work during the Cheney-Rove Junta.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline thunter34

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2012, 03:50:31 PM »
I don't think we're missing the point.  I think it's ALL these points plus your's.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2012, 04:27:26 PM »
I don't think we're missing the point.  I think it's ALL these points plus your's.
no
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2012, 06:30:21 PM »
*
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 06:37:08 PM by GSOgymrat »

Offline thunter34

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Offline WillyWump

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2012, 07:01:30 PM »
This is why we need to legalize Marijuana and cocaine, and for that matter everything. We are spending too much money trying to win the drug war and we are losing it miserably, The Mexicans are cutting each others heads off with Chainsaws as they fight for the drug routes into the Us to feed our INSATIABLE desire for drugs. Our Jails and prisons are 25-50% full of drug offenders. Free up all the damned money we are wasting on this ridiculous war, and divert it to social programs.

Legalize it all and collect taxes on it. But make it illegal to drive impaired, just like we do with alcohol...you drive cracked out of your mind then you go to jail. But stay at home and get as high as you want. It's your body.

problem solved.

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Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2012, 08:24:23 PM »
Thing is, there is a test to determine exactly how drunk you are by the blood in your alcohol system. From what I understand, while they can detect pot and other chemicals, there is no way to quantify how stoned someone is, exactly. And even a roadside sobriety test means different things for stoned V drunk people.

Not to mention standardizing the laws to account for the amount of pot necessary to produce an altered state - since it's metabolized through fat that could mean a lot of different people can have a lot of different reactions to the same inhale. Not to mention that unlike the standard 80 proof of a shot of liquor (five or take) different strains of pot can carry wildly and widely different levels of THC.

I am all for legalization, of course. I just think that the stonewalling perpetuated for the last 40 years has stalled attempts for science to create these standards, these determinations, much less produce equipment to utilize them. This and the fact that, unlike booze, pot can be detected in your system for days, weeks, even months depending on body fat and the amount smoked.

We need to play a LOT of catch-up before we pretend that we have a process for dealing with the inevitable impaired driving that is likely to occur.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

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Offline WillyWump

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2012, 08:43:01 PM »
Thing is, there is a test to determine exactly how drunk you are by the blood in your alcohol system. From what I understand, while they can detect pot and other chemicals, there is no way to quantify how stoned someone is, exactly. And even a roadside sobriety test means different things for stoned V drunk people.


Good point, but there are piss tests that can detect mutliple drugs in one over the counter test at Walgreens, up to 12 I think.  SURELY science can tweak them to determine how much is in their system. But then we get into the How much coke is allowable to drive on...2 toots? 3 toots?

How about just avoid all that and make it illegal to drive with any amount in you. Take a Taxi

« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 08:49:42 PM by WillyWump »
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Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2012, 09:02:14 PM »


How about just avoid all that and make it illegal to drive with any amount in you. Take a Taxi



Take a taxi? Everywhere for a month after taking a bong hit? Because that's how long pot can be detected in the system.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

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Offline WillyWump

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2012, 09:15:00 PM »
Take a taxi? Everywhere for a month after taking a bong hit? Because that's how long pot can be detected in the system.


How are the States that have legalized Marijuana, handling this issue? ie. driving while impaired with Marijuana, though legal. I have no experience with pot. But i do know that when I was in rehab for cocaine, they would piss test me and they could tell If and generally how long ago I used based on the result, but I dont know if they could determine how much was in my system. I remember this because when I reported to Rehab they were pissed because they could tell I used the day before vs weeks prior.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 09:17:44 PM by WillyWump »
POZ since '08

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Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
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Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2012, 11:22:49 PM »
But i do know that when I was in rehab for cocaine, they would piss test me and they could tell If and generally how long ago I used based on the result, but I dont know if they could determine how much was in my system. I remember this because when I reported to Rehab they were pissed because they could tell I used the day before vs weeks prior.

Girl, you need a new drug.  You need to switch to tina or bath salts and then you'd be totally in the clear because after 8 hours of nonstop sweating and fucking, you'd be lucky to be able to even piss in a cup  :o
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Online buginme2

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2012, 12:24:54 AM »
Here in Washington the new marijuana law has a driving under the influence provision.  The state has set a limit to where drivin with more than 5 nanograms of THC in your blood is considered a DUI.

If you are suspected to be high, they can contact a judge and obtain a warrant to take your blood to test the THC level.  Its a blood test that is used, not a urine test.  Supposedly its more acurate to measure the THC level this way. 

I'm not sure what Colorado's law has their limit set at.
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Online buginme2

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2012, 12:30:01 AM »
The 5 nanogram level is based on active THC which usually dissipates within hours of use.  Another marijuana compund, carboxy-THC - stored in fat cells for 30 days or more (which is what employers test for in "drug tests") is not counted as a basis for impairment for DUI in Washington.
Don't be fancy, just get dancey

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2012, 12:50:43 AM »
The 5 nanogram level is based on active THC which usually dissipates within hours of use.  Another marijuana compund, carboxy-THC - stored in fat cells for 30 days or more (which is what employers test for in "drug tests") is not counted as a basis for impairment for DUI in Washington.

Good to know, yet even still such an amount seems arguably arbitrary considering age, weight, body mass/fat, and gender differences.

But I think any step towards a determining factor would make legalization more feasible, and the abuse of it enforceable.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline BT65

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2012, 07:26:41 AM »
I just heard the other day, that in 1980 there was a little over 2000 people in prison for drug related charges.  Now, there are over 90,000.  What a waste of money, and labeling people for the rest of their lives.

Someone not being eligible for food stamps who have a drug felony, is not just a Georgia thing.  In Indiana they can't get them either.  It may be a federal law, not sure.  But the thing that really pisses me off is, a person with a drug felony cannot get a pell grant to go to college.  That's what gets me.  It's like the higher-ups want people to change their lives, but if they try by wanting to get a degree, they cannot get that pell grant.  That's a federal law.  Horrible.
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: Drug testing for welfare recipients
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2012, 02:38:02 PM »
Most of the people in jail and prison are there for drugs.  We have a system that sets them up for failure, when they get out.  They will have a very hard time getting a job, due to having a record and having a work gap.  Then, they can't get food stamps or help with school.  Many landlords do background checks.  So, many end up back in trouble. 



 


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