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Author Topic: advice from discordant heterosexual couples, please  (Read 2860 times)

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Offline juliette

  • Member
  • Posts: 4
advice from discordant heterosexual couples, please
« on: October 06, 2012, 02:34:42 PM »
Hi, first of all I would like to say thanks to all of you because thi forum is the only place where we can express how we really feel.

Last year I meet a wonderful man (he is a man I am a woman and we are both 29 years old) and the relationship was going great, we had already talked about having children, we were a serious and sweet couple, etc.

Actually he is the best boyfriend I ever had cause he is so cute, nice, sweet, intelligent... and specially he is a really good person, everybody loves him. I am a little bit paranoid about getting ill so with all the boyfriends I have had I always asked them to get tested so finally, after 1 year of relationship, I decided I trusted him so much I should take the pill and forget about condoms because I prefer to have sex without a condom. Before starting with the pill we  both got tested and we found that he is positive. He was diagnosed 2 months ago and since that day my nightmare started. My first tought was to break with him, because altough I shouldnt say it, I  consider myself nice, funny and beautiful and I tought Why do I want to make my life harder?  Why do I want to be with a person that can infect me? unfortunately one condom brook(4 months ago) and we had never use condoms for oral sex so I am still really really worried maybe finally, even tought I have make things in the safe way, I think I can be infected, I got tested again one month ago and the test was negative and now I have to go again soon just in case, altough all the doctors told me the chances are 0 because the last exam was 3 months after the condom failure (but actually it was 2 months and 27 days so I am worried for this 3 days and after we did also oral unprotected sex several times). And this is my real problem, that I have never been so scared in my whole life. The day I went to the hospital to collect my 2nd result was the scariest day in my life, I felt sthg really weird in my stomach, I really tought I was gonna kill myself if I was infected and that I could never forgive neither him neither me so I couldnt stop thinking about breaking with him cause I was thinking just three more months until I get my final results and then I wont even see him again. But at the same time I feel so selfish, I have started to have paranoias and I think I am gonna get cancer or a horrible disease and my new partner will break with me, I am creating hypotetical horrible situations in my mind, like that I am gonna die alone (I have always tought about having family and getting married and I know everyhting about the Swiss suggestion and sperm wash) or that maybe finally I got infected and then we break and any other man will be with me, cause I really think a lot of people see HIV as a really bad thing.
I want to be with him cause I think I love him because right now I am still with him but at the same time I am worried he wants to stay with me so much because he is worried of meeting a new girl and telling her and she wont accept. But he is so great I am so sure another girl will accept his status that I am scared about loosing him, but I am not sure if I will be happy with him cause I know at least once a year I will have to go to get tested again, again and again. If before he was the perfect boyfriend now he is ten times better. He is so romantic, this year we have travelled and life so much...he did me so many cute things for my birthday, after so many boyfriends he was the first one who actually spent a lot of time (finally life taught me that peoples time is richer than proples money) creating himself my birthdays card.

I think it sounds really selfish not being with him just because I have to get tested every year, but I cant describe how bad I feel that day.

Now the biggest problem is with sex, I just dont want to do it, we havent had proper sex since the day of his first result, we have only been doing  "manual jobs " once he did oral sex to me (the doctor told us it was totally safe if it was him the one doing it as saliva doesnt contains virus, but even if I know this, I am still worried) and the other day we tried to have sex, with condom of course, but just maybe for 5 minutes because I just cant do it. I know one day maybe I am brave enough to have sex with him again but I think I am always going to be really worried and sex wouldnt been as good as it was before I knew he had HIV. I know all this sounds stupid because luckly he got his first lab result and he is undetectable so now the chances of getting infected are less than before but I am still worried and I am not sure if I will be totally happy with him.

I think I am still young so maybe this is too much for me and maybe I should just break with him and find another person. I know it sounds hard but sometimes I think this is a nightmare and in three months I am going to wake up and I will be happy again. But then I think maybe if I lost him and he finds another girl then he wont be back with me and maybe I would never been as happy as I have been this year with him.
I would like to hear from other heterosexual couples who have had babies and also I would like to know exactly the chances of getting infected if we try to follow the swiss suggestion. I would like to receive any advice from any woman who is in my situation. I feel really sad, since that day I have been crying everyday and I am the one who is not infected and I think I am doing it difficult for my boyfriend(I think he is suffering  alot but he doesnt want to tell me cause he is a strong person), cause usually I am a happy person, but now I just cant stop crying evry time I am alone or with my boyfriend. I haven~t told anything in the job or to my group of friends and I am starting to find difficult to cope with the job and all my worries. I am also scared of one day getting a little bit drank and tell my best friend, I think I should go to a psychologist or maybe any group help for HIV partners cause I dont know what to do. What would you do if you were in my position?

Offline karry

  • Member
  • Posts: 271
Re: advice from discordant heterosexual couples, please
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2012, 10:08:18 AM »
Hi there
I have read your post and there is so much going on with you right now.
Yes, you have the right to be worried. That is normal. But I believe you are making this so much about you than about this man you are with. Your concerns are only about you: you fear being infected, you fear he will leave you after he infects you, you fear no man will want you after he infects you and leaves you, you fear you will get cancer, you fear friends will find out.....you fear you fear you fear.

Calm down. Take a deep breath, look at things logically.

Since the fears are ruling your life, just leave this man. Believe me there are many women out there who will be happy to have him. And he deserves someone who will stop for a while to think about him, not someone who is so consumed by their fears that they start thinking of all possible scenarios that will probably never happen.

In your words you say you want to be with him because "you think you love him"...do you love him for real, or do you only think you love him? This might hold the key for you.

I was in a sero-discordant relationship before. He was wonderful and supportive and never made me feel like my HIV + status was the worst thing that ever happened to him.

Educate yourself more about HIV.

I am sorry if I come off a little harsh on you, but there is so much going on in your post and I feel you have issues that you need to address yourself, and right now you may cause more damage to this guy.  He already has to deal with being positive....just remember that.

Wish you the best.
Karry
Take it a day at a time....and be positive about it too!

Offline juliette

  • Member
  • Posts: 4
Re: advice from discordant heterosexual couples, please
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2012, 12:24:23 PM »

Hi karry,
Finally I didnt understand what happened with your ex partner but you say was so I guess you are not still together, are you? Are you with a postive man now or alone?

I know you don't understand me but you are not in my position (u are in his position) so your advice doesnt' help me. But you made me feel like a really selfish person so finally I am fed up, I have had enough of all this shit and YES I AM SELFISH, but life told me sometimes we need to be selfish. Actually I had always been quite educated about HIV and I guess this is the reason why I use condoms, unfortunately condoms are not totally safe and unfortunately the woman is the one who has more risk of getting infected, so finally you are right I am going to break with him cause to be honest I hate him when I think how stupid he was for not using condoms with his last girlfriend, who by the way used to take hard drugs and so did he, however he promised me he had never used any serynge. I am sorry but I have been responsible during my whole life so now when I think I might be infected just because a condom's failure I am really depressed to be honest, and apart from that I need to hear how selfish I am so this is enough. You are right I dont love him cause I think he is gonna bring me problems and i am so selfish I am not going to spend more of my time in this forum cause I dont want to make VIH my life.

My biggest concern was about how to have children and if there was any couple in the exact situation as me (man infected woman not) but to be honest I am starting to think this is a myth cause finally most HIV couple don't have kids

Offline karry

  • Member
  • Posts: 271
Re: advice from discordant heterosexual couples, please
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2012, 01:07:41 PM »
Hi karry,
Finally I didnt understand what happened with your ex partner but you say was so I guess you are not still together, are you? Are you with a postive man now or alone?

I know you don't understand me but you are not in my position (u are in his position) so your advice doesnt' help me. But you made me feel like a really selfish person so finally I am fed up, I have had enough of all this shit and YES I AM SELFISH, but life told me sometimes we need to be selfish. Actually I had always been quite educated about HIV and I guess this is the reason why I use condoms, unfortunately condoms are not totally safe and unfortunately the woman is the one who has more risk of getting infected, so finally you are right I am going to break with him cause to be honest I hate him when I think how stupid he was for not using condoms with his last girlfriend, who by the way used to take hard drugs and so did he, however he promised me he had never used any serynge. I am sorry but I have been responsible during my whole life so now when I think I might be infected just because a condom's failure I am really depressed to be honest, and apart from that I need to hear how selfish I am so this is enough. You are right I dont love him cause I think he is gonna bring me problems and i am so selfish I am not going to spend more of my time in this forum cause I dont want to make VIH my life.My biggest concern was about how to have children and if there was any couple in the exact situation as me (man infected woman not) but to be honest I am starting to think this is a myth cause finally most HIV couple don't have kids

Considering you said you wont be spending any more time on this forum, I will still reply for the benefit of replying:
1. My ex and I separated because I had to move to another country for immigration. We are still friends. The long distance did not work, and I felt I needed someone physically present in my life, so I broke up and started a new relationship. Today I am with a wonderful positive guy....I wont change him for anyone in the world.

2. I think you found the answers to your questions and to your worries. You've eloquently spelt it out yourself in this post.
I still stand by my point: you are judging him because he is positive. You are mad at him because he is positive...something which you think he could have prevented, just as you are probably judging me and the thousands or millions of other positive people in the world because you think we were stupid enough to get infected, right?

They always say its when things are going bad that you know who can really stand by you. I guess this guy you now hate will finally get to know that you were with him for the wrong reasons.

I know the truth hurts, but admitting you are selfish did finally help you open your eyes and see that you dont love this guy and that he is better off without you, or vice versa.

I still think you ought to be more educated about HIV. If you REALY were, you wont say some of the things you are saying, especially your last statement.  Knowing you have to use condoms is good....but that is not all you need to know. Have you seen statistics about positive women who have babies? We have some on the forum. And there are also negative women who are with positive men and they have babies.

Most people with HIV dont make VIH their lives....we live fruitful lives and contribute a lot to society. Myself and my partner work full time, enjoy life and HIV does not limit us....and HIV is not our lives!

So good luck with letting go of this guy, and hoping you find someone with whom you will live a disease-worry-free life!
Karry
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 01:56:34 PM by karry »
Take it a day at a time....and be positive about it too!

Offline juliette

  • Member
  • Posts: 4
Re: advice from discordant heterosexual couples, please
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2012, 02:22:42 PM »
sorry if my reply was a little rude but, to be honest, u hurt me with your comments like Educate yourself about HIV or when u tought that u started harsh (if u think so its because u know u were being too hard with me). anyway, I had just posted this to listen nice words or postive messages from serodiscordant couples with babies, but I have opened my eyes and made my mind. I dont judge my boyfriend for what he did its more for what he didnt tell me. u were the first who started judging me. Sorry if I hurt other people cause that wasn't my intention.

I really believe an amazing woman will love him cause he is amazing.

Offline Pek

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
Re: advice from discordant heterosexual couples, please
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2012, 02:28:42 PM »
By the way I am the boyfriend of Juliette( or I was). I can understand both of you. Actually I asked her to post here to understand more about the subject. Now Im kinda regret about that. I think it didnt help her neither me.
I got educated about HIV because I really needed since I will live for my whole life with that. I spent so many hours reading everything about. She didnt but she knows many things that I told her.
I think this forum is not the place to discuss about if someone is worth for someone or not. I am sure she is worth for me and  I love her. She has many bad things like everybody has and we need to accept as long as we can afford it. It is true that she is kinda selfish(you could realize on the post) but I accept that. I have my bad things and she accepted as well. What she didnt accept was my disease.
I had 3 long-term relationship and by far this one was the best. We respected each other, we loved each other, we had good sex, we were really partners.
The point here is that I want to proove to her that chances of become infected are close to ZERO as long as I am undectable and we have use condoms all the time we have sex.
I think im Inteligent and so are the swiss doctors whom said that as long as u are for 6 months undectable, no other STI, the person adheres to antiretroviral therapy we are sexually non-infectious. Im not a doctor but I  believe on that. If not they wouldnt suggest to their patients to have sex without condom just to have a happier life. If they did that and that wasnt true they would be really reckless and they were playing with many lifes. SO I really believe on that.
I just think this is not a worldwide consensus because it would help to spread other disease or even the HIV(people who doesnt follow the suggestion like it has to be. I agree with that.
But Im planning to use condom for my whole life so Im so sure that I WONT infect someone.
I would apreccitate if people with large experience come here to explain to my girlfriend more about the chances of get infected and the possibilty of having babies(what I am  sure its totally possible)
Thanks
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 02:34:21 PM by Pek »

Offline juliette

  • Member
  • Posts: 4
Re: advice from discordant heterosexual couples, please
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2012, 03:02:04 PM »
Thanks pek, u know u are my fifth long term relationship and by far the best one (imagine how bad had been all the previous ones, No, I'm kidding, it's a joke, u know me). I really regret having posted anything here.

Offline jkinatl2

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: advice from discordant heterosexual couples, please
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2012, 04:26:42 PM »
Sorry you regret posting.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline RVW123

  • Member
  • Posts: 8
Re: advice from discordant heterosexual couples, please
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2012, 05:35:23 PM »
Don't give up on each other!

Pek is right in what he says. Juliette, I don't think you're selfish- you are just coming to terms with a new and frightening (and yes, it is frightening at first, no matter what anyone says) situation. Don't be hard on yourself. Give it time. You will be suprised how normal it gets!

You two obviously care very much for each other. Just decide for now to go on this journey together. Sex is not the most important thing in the world, love is, and I think you guys have it.

And yes, you can have babies safely.

I wish you lot's of happiness (together!)


Offline Valmont

  • Member
  • Posts: 332
Re: advice from discordant heterosexual couples, please
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2012, 05:53:35 PM »
Im in a serodiscordant relationship for almost a year.  Ive been diagnosed for 18 months and I disclosed her before we started together.  We both decided to avoid completely any penetration, including with condom, because of my fears to infect her and because of her fears to be infected; it is our chose.  For sure, we could use condoms and the risk will be near zero...  We descovered that there are most important things between us than only sex; and in regard with sex, well, there are many other way to enjoy it...

What has been difficult, partcularly for my, is to start living with HIV and the changes in regard to it...  Only time makes things quietest and it has been a good thing for me to avoid taking presurated decisions just after my diagnostic.  Taking a lot with my girlfriend has helped me a lot, she is always here to listen for me and myself for her...  This meritate some life adjustments...  Time helps a lot....

It has also been the possibility por definate priorities, I m most clear about my life priorities now and work for them...

About having children, you can have some safety...

It is important for you to get educated and to have the possibility to aclarate your doubts, it is also so important to be very open in your relation in regard to HIV and what it means...  There are many serodiscordant couple that have a very happy life, I hope this will happen to you too, HIV dont change the people you are and should not affect love...
Apr 2011: Diagnotized
Jun 2011: CD4: 504  VL: 176.000
Dic 2011: CD4: 714  VL: 95.000
May 2012: CD4: 395 VL: 67.000
Jun 2012: CD4: 367
Agu 2012: Starting Emtricitabine 200 mg / Tenofovir 300 mg and Efavirenz 600 mg (2 pills) different brands or VIRADAY/ATRIPLA/Mylan....
Sep 2012: VL: 138
Dic 2012: CD4: 708 VL: <34  %CD4: 32%
Jan 2013: CD4: 707 VL: <20
May 2013: CD4: 945 VL: <34 %CD4: 33%
Agu 2013: CD4: 636 VL: <34 %CD4: 50%
Dic 2013: Latent TB, started Isoniazid

Offline Pek

  • Member
  • Posts: 23
Re: advice from discordant heterosexual couples, please
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2012, 01:44:18 PM »
Im in a serodiscordant relationship for almost a year.  Ive been diagnosed for 18 months and I disclosed her before we started together.  We both decided to avoid completely any penetration, including with condom, because of my fears to infect her and because of her fears to be infected; it is our chose.  For sure, we could use condoms and the risk will be near zero...  We descovered that there are most important things between us than only sex; and in regard with sex, well, there are many other way to enjoy it...

What has been difficult, partcularly for my, is to start living with HIV and the changes in regard to it...  Only time makes things quietest and it has been a good thing for me to avoid taking presurated decisions just after my diagnostic.  Taking a lot with my girlfriend has helped me a lot, she is always here to listen for me and myself for her...  This meritate some life adjustments...  Time helps a lot....

It has also been the possibility por definate priorities, I m most clear about my life priorities now and work for them...

About having children, you can have some safety...

It is important for you to get educated and to have the possibility to aclarate your doubts, it is also so important to be very open in your relation in regard to HIV and what it means...  There are many serodiscordant couple that have a very happy life, I hope this will happen to you too, HIV dont change the people you are and should not affect love...

I agree with you about there are more things apart from sex. But the sex is really important too. I am recently diagnosed as well(3 months) and I think the same as you. I have other priorities in my life than sex. I already told my ex-girlfriend(Juliette) that U could stay the time that she wants without sex or just no-penetration sex. Anything. But she is tough about her decisions. She has been tough to me as well.I will fight for this relationship as long as think she is the woman of my life.  I love her and I know she is a good person. Thankfully I am strong person and I am doing  well. I am pretty sure if she dont stay with me I will find another good woman to spend the life with me. But for now I love her and I really want to prove her that I wont infect her. Because that is the only one reason to we are not together now.
best wishes to u both on your way.
thanks
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 01:46:21 PM by Pek »

Offline karry

  • Member
  • Posts: 271
Re: advice from discordant heterosexual couples, please
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2012, 09:02:53 PM »
I have been debating if it will be a good idea or not to post another reply to this post for over a week now, and I finally decided to do so.

Pek, I wish to apologise to you for the damage that may have been caused to your relationship as a result of what I may have posted in reply to Juliette. It was probably not right of me to stand in and judge her the way I did, when I did not know that you had asked her to come to the website to get an input from the other side. I apologise sincerely.

I hope you do get her back if she is the person for you and wish you lots of luck and love together.

Karry
Take it a day at a time....and be positive about it too!

Offline Blue75

  • Member
  • Posts: 53
Re: advice from discordant heterosexual couples, please
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2012, 07:18:50 PM »
Hi Juliette,

I have been with my husband for 15 years.  He tested positive on Valentine's Day this year.  I understand what you're going through.  So that I don't repeat a lot of what I've already posted in here, please see my very first post I made in the forum, "Good dead gone wrong".  It took a few people to kindly and politely direct me to the fact that if I'm feeling the way I was feeling, then just imagine what he's feeling.  That really got me to thinking about how selfish I was being, but it is a natural reaction at first to get this kind of news.

We already have a 9yr old child and he has older children from prior to me so we are finished with having children; however, if we wanted to, we could as soon as he is undetectable (which should be anytime soon).  He however; is too scared to not use a condom and I respect that.  By the way, based on when we believe he came in contact with HIV, it was about 3 1/2 years ago.  We had never used condoms during that entire time.  Thankfully, and by the grace of God, I am negative.

I think the thing that I'd really like to address for you is that Love is a very powerful thing.  Do you really want to risk losing someone you love and who loves you?  Give yourself some time right now.  The first few months are the hardest and you both are still coming to terms with things.  Take a deep breath.  Sometimes you've got to take risks and sacrifices in life when it comes to love. 

I wish you both the best. 
Blue

Husband:
2/14/12 Tested HIV+
3/16/12: CD4-216, VL-56,500
5/4/12: Started Atripla
5/7/12: CD4-184, VL-12,000 (Taken off Atripla after 3 days, awaiting liver testing) Started antibiotics.

Offline Valmont

  • Member
  • Posts: 332
Re: advice from discordant heterosexual couples, please
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2012, 07:57:50 PM »
I agree with you about there are more things apart from sex. But the sex is really important too. I am recently diagnosed as well(3 months) and I think the same as you. I have other priorities in my life than sex. I already told my ex-girlfriend(Juliette) that U could stay the time that she wants without sex or just no-penetration sex. Anything. But she is tough about her decisions. She has been tough to me as well.I will fight for this relationship as long as think she is the woman of my life.  I love her and I know she is a good person. Thankfully I am strong person and I am doing  well. I am pretty sure if she dont stay with me I will find another good woman to spend the life with me. But for now I love her and I really want to prove her that I wont infect her. Because that is the only one reason to we are not together now.
best wishes to u both on your way.
thanks

Ive just seen your message...  For sure, sex is really important...  But eveything is an equilibry, I prefee avoiding some practices and that way avoiding 100 % infection in my girlfriend and stress and so on because I love her a lot and we are good that way...  This does not mean we dont have sex, but only practices 100% safe, we deal well with this, having great time (we bought some excellent toys  :P)...  For sure it is not the same, but it is the way we decided to live this new life and no problem about it...  I aware it might be exagerated, but my girl friend is confortable that way, so do I.

Most important thing is to talk as much as possible and try to understand each other, this means you also have to be honest between you for your partner to be able to understand you...  You can be together without any risk of exposition, with love, and having really great time, but it is a decision both decide to take, knowing that new situation, nobody else can take it ; but it is possible to be serodiscordant and be happy in love and having sex without any risks...  As Blue said, you should give you a time before deciding separate, the HIV news are very string and anly time helps to accept it and deal with it...  Try to take it easy (mmmm that is easy to say, no?), but try it...
Apr 2011: Diagnotized
Jun 2011: CD4: 504  VL: 176.000
Dic 2011: CD4: 714  VL: 95.000
May 2012: CD4: 395 VL: 67.000
Jun 2012: CD4: 367
Agu 2012: Starting Emtricitabine 200 mg / Tenofovir 300 mg and Efavirenz 600 mg (2 pills) different brands or VIRADAY/ATRIPLA/Mylan....
Sep 2012: VL: 138
Dic 2012: CD4: 708 VL: <34  %CD4: 32%
Jan 2013: CD4: 707 VL: <20
May 2013: CD4: 945 VL: <34 %CD4: 33%
Agu 2013: CD4: 636 VL: <34 %CD4: 50%
Dic 2013: Latent TB, started Isoniazid

 


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