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Author Topic: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics  (Read 23591 times)

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Offline Zohar

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  • Posts: 234
Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #50 on: September 23, 2012, 03:36:09 AM »
You truly are a horrible person if you are nitpicking an analogy like this.


Nope. I'm not a 'horrible' person. I'm simply someone who doesn't share the same opinion as you. And that's OK. There's no need to make a personal attack on me.
''Poor is the man whose pleasures depend on the permission of another.''

Offline Zohar

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #51 on: September 23, 2012, 03:41:40 AM »
... you choose to split hairs in this analogy in a bid to justify your morally grey, if reprehensible behaviour rather than simply admit you made a mistake and that you would not repeat it.

I don't think I have made a mistake and, thus, would do the same thing again.
''Poor is the man whose pleasures depend on the permission of another.''

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #52 on: September 23, 2012, 03:49:34 AM »
If I get banned from this site for calling someone a "despicable cuntwaffle" for behaving like a raving sociopath, or for calling out some awful vestige of humanity for agreeing with him, then my participation on this site had surely come to an end.

If we can NOT be honest in our opinions and our assessments of behaviors which impact us ALL, then, this is no longer a support forum. It is a repository for justification. And I shall have NONE of it.

I am laying the gauntlet down here. BAN ME if you must, but I WILL call out sociopathic behavior when I see it. And I see it here in Zohar and Livewithit. Two people I would fight to the death to defend in court, but would happily see with their veils of anonymity lifted if it meant that decent people were allowed to live without fear of the stigma that these ferociously despicable mindsets perpetuate.

I am sorry, very sorry, to put Ann and Tim in this position. But sometimes a person has to take a stand. I am taking it here.

You hate mean people? Mean talk? Hateful and horrible and unreasonable perceptions of HIV positive people? Then hate this post. Hate me. Because I will continue without hesitation to call people out on their sociopathic behavior, which impacts EACH and EVERY one of us.

Ban me, if you must. I will be better off without having to justify my association with a "support" forum that supports and encourages stigma and ignorance. Both of these individuals do that. And I will not shut up until I am thrown out. And this time, when I am thrown out, I know better than to return.

Fuck all, you KNOW me.  You know me.

I am NOT trying to shut down the conversation. I am trying to salvage it.

But if I am in the wrong, then time me out. Let me know that my attitude is wrong. Goddess knows I have bigger and wetter fish to fry than this bullshit - but if this forum requires a sacrifice, let it be me.

And Goddess help the rest.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #53 on: September 23, 2012, 03:57:41 AM »
I don't think I have made a mistake and, thus, would do the same thing again.

I am with JK 100%.

Your resolution to continue down the path of a sociopath affects all HIV+ people in that it serves to affirm in the minds of the mainstream that poz folk are reckless predators who have no regard for the health of others.

You are, whether or not you see it, complicit in ratcheting up the stigma we all face.
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #54 on: September 23, 2012, 04:21:08 AM »
Nope. I'm not a 'horrible' person. I'm simply someone who doesn't share the same opinion as you. And that's OK. There's no need to make a personal attack on me.

No. You share the same oxygen and nitrogen as us. That's basically where our similarities end.

You are a despicable sociopath, and have decided to take your cause public, because you thing that this site will wilter beneath your "right to free speech." You certainly have that right, of course. But so long as you post a thing in this forum this PUBLICLY SEARCHABLE forum, you might as well be speaking for the lot of us.

So here is the thing. Our two mindsets can not exist here. Not together. Sadly, one of us must be thwarted.

So long as you exist on this forum, I cannot in good faith let any post of yours go unchallenged and I admit that though my grasp of the language is strong, I am no foreigner to magnificently obscene talk. And I intend to use whatever tools I have at my disposal to shut you down, to shut you out, to STOP this sociopathic conversation.

We do the same here with denialist speech. I am a little perplexed that we have not yet developed tools to deal with.... this. Which, to my mind, is simply a subset of that speech. And something I do not wish to be associated with in any way.

So here we go, Zohar. You, and I assume LiveWithIt. If the Powers That Be decide that your participation in these forums is more important than mine - and let's face it, HIV transmission theory has not budged in scientific evidence or study in many years, and there are far more people who both know that shit and can repeat it than myself- then I am done here, and you and your kind will remain. And the new generation of HIV, the parasitic generation if you don't mind me coining the phrase, begins.

So that's the thing. If it's YOU that this site needs to stay relevant, then best of all possible luck to AIDSMEDS. Because they are going to see tons of traffic, and oddly, you WILL be more useful than I in that regard.

You will, after all, be bringing them here yourself.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline wolfter

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #55 on: September 23, 2012, 06:49:44 AM »
Do we really need to wonder why people like Paris Hilton think gay men are sex addicted freaks passing the AIDS to anyone who comes in contact with us?

I was not about to participate in this pathetic excuse of a thread until a point resonated with me.  I can't sit by and be a part of the silent majority who thinks this is not sociopathic behavior.

I tried to fathom the mindset that would possibly allow someone to infect another without feeling like a complete piece of shit.  And then to say it was their fault for trusting them.  I've only had one episode of nondisclosure sex in the quarter of a century of living with this disease.  It was a protected episode and I was in a really dark place.  But contrary to some opinions, I felt like a complete piece of shit and still wonder and worry that I possibly put this person in the same horrid place as myself.

We all make errors in judgment, but responsible people regret these decisions and adjust their behaviors in accordance with morally correct ones.  A sociopath justifies his own negative behavior by blaming others. 

In the early days, not much was done to prevent the spread of this virus as most felt we brought it upon ourselves with our deviant, sex craved lust.  It's a great thing we didn't have the internet then so they could use posts such as these to prove their point. 

I also fail to see what the main intention With with this ridiculous post.  It appears to have been started to incite anger which it accomplished.  If people wish to lead destructive lives, they shouldn't expect us to support them unconditionally.  Why post for others' thoughts when you've already decided where you stand on the issue? 

Wolfie

Judging someone does not define them, it defines you. 

True peace is not merely the absence of war, it is the presence of justice.

Offline karry

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #56 on: September 23, 2012, 07:59:40 AM »
Do we really need to wonder why people like Paris Hilton think gay men are sex addicted freaks passing the AIDS to anyone who comes in contact with us?

I was not about to participate in this pathetic excuse of a thread until a point resonated with me.  I can't sit by and be a part of the silent majority who thinks this is not sociopathic behavior.

I tried to fathom the mindset that would possibly allow someone to infect another without feeling like a complete piece of shit.  And then to say it was their fault for trusting them.  I've only had one episode of nondisclosure sex in the quarter of a century of living with this disease.  It was a protected episode and I was in a really dark place.  But contrary to some opinions, I felt like a complete piece of shit and still wonder and worry that I possibly put this person in the same horrid place as myself.

We all make errors in judgment, but responsible people regret these decisions and adjust their behaviors in accordance with morally correct ones.  A sociopath justifies his own negative behavior by blaming others. 

In the early days, not much was done to prevent the spread of this virus as most felt we brought it upon ourselves with our deviant, sex craved lust.  It's a great thing we didn't have the internet then so they could use posts such as these to prove their point. 

I also fail to see what the main intention With with this ridiculous post.  It appears to have been started to incite anger which it accomplished.  If people wish to lead destructive lives, they shouldn't expect us to support them unconditionally.  Why post for others' thoughts when you've already decided where you stand on the issue? 

Wolfie

Well said!
Karry
Take it a day at a time....and be positive about it too!

Offline Buckmark

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #57 on: September 23, 2012, 08:27:34 AM »
I don't think I have made a mistake and, thus, would do the same thing again.

This is precisely the attitude that lead legislators to make crime when pozzies have sex and do not disclose.  It's not an understatement to say that your attitude and actions are jeopardizing the freedom of HIV+ people.  As JK said, these are publicly searchable forums, and this is the kind of fodder that conservative "throw the book at 'em" types will salivate over.

I'm equally shocked at the attitude that callously tilts the responsibility of preventing infection towards the uninfected person.  Everyone needs to act responsibly in order to prevent the spread of HIV.

This thread, and Zohar specifically, disgust me.  But perhaps there is something valuable to come out of this:  a discussion on whether we let forum members with views like this go unchecked.
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline LiveWithIt

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  • Posts: 377
Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #58 on: September 23, 2012, 11:58:12 AM »

If we can NOT be honest in our opinions and our assessments of behaviors which impact us ALL, then, this is no longer a support forum.

This is where you are acting like a hypocrite.  People have different opinions from you and you call them names. 
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 12:01:00 PM by LiveWithIt »
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline Jeff G

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  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #59 on: September 23, 2012, 12:27:02 PM »
This is where you are acting like a hypocrite.  People have different opinions from you and you call them names.

This is not about diffrent opinions , its about a clear cut difference between right and wrong .
There is something very wrong with you and nobody needs you to agree with the assessment , its evident to every one else except you and Zohar .

There are people here that have spent a better part of their life fighting to save lives and reduce stigma for people living with HIV and you will not undermine that work wether you understand the consequences of your actions or not  . Don't you for one minute think what you have done and said here will be tolerated or not addressed each and every time you spout your monstrous rubbish .   

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #60 on: September 23, 2012, 12:39:16 PM »
This is not about diffrent opinions , its about a clear cut difference between right and wrong .
There is something very wrong with you and nobody needs you to agree with the assessment , its evident to every one else except you and Zohar .

There are people here that have spent a better part of their life fighting to save lives and reduce stigma for people living with HIV and you will not undermine that work wether you understand the consequences of your actions or not  . Don't you for one minute think what you have done and said here will be tolerated or not addressed each and every time you spout your monstrous rubbish .   

So keep living in your fantasy land where neg guys don't have to fully protect themselves.  They can trust anyone who they will never see again to tell them the truth about their status, after all you can trust a stranger who won't be ever able again to sleep at night because he lied to you.

You are the one who is doing a disservice to the HIV community by letting neg guys think the all poz men are honorable and won't infect anyone else, when you know for a fact that there is a sub culture of freaks who won't take meds and actively want to spread the disease.
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #61 on: September 23, 2012, 12:49:16 PM »
... talk about selective reading. Our public schools are failing ::)
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Jeff G

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  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #62 on: September 23, 2012, 01:00:10 PM »
So keep living in your fantasy land where neg guys don't have to fully protect themselves.  They can trust anyone who they will never see again to tell them the truth about their status, after all you can trust a stranger who won't be ever able again to sleep at night because he lied to you.

You are the one who is doing a disservice to the HIV community by letting neg guys think the all poz men are honorable and won't infect anyone else, when you know for a fact that there is a sub culture of freaks who won't take meds and actively want to spread the disease.

I have lived with HIV for almost 30 years , 25 years or more I have lived openly as a HIV positive person . I almost wish I had the ability to live in a fantasy world but that's not possible because I see HIV for what it is and have kept hope alive for what it can be for the next generation . You and your kind will never understand this or be a part of anything good as long as you go on hiding with phony screen names and making excuses to live selfish lives .   

Its all been said so Im done with this , time to move on .   
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 01:07:39 PM by jg1962 »

Offline james3000

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #63 on: September 23, 2012, 01:14:18 PM »
I agree with Wolfie said it all for me !

Offline bocker3

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  • Posts: 3,260
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2012, 01:51:17 PM »
So keep living in your fantasy land where neg guys don't have to fully protect themselves.  They can trust anyone who they will never see again to tell them the truth about their status, after all you can trust a stranger who won't be ever able again to sleep at night because he lied to you.

You are the one who is doing a disservice to the HIV community by letting neg guys think the all poz men are honorable and won't infect anyone else, when you know for a fact that there is a sub culture of freaks who won't take meds and actively want to spread the disease.

So tell me -- are you normally this stupid or are you being deliberately obtuse??

Show where anyone has said that negative folks do not own the responsibility of keeping their status negative??  NO WHERE is that said. 

This thread and the reactions of most don't focus on the negative person, because we all agree they should be insisting on condoms for penetrative sex.  What this thread IS about is whether a poz person has a duty to ensure that their virus ends with them.  The overwhelming (and correct) stance is YES, they do. 
Let me repeat it for you -- EVERY POZ PERSON HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY TO ENSURE THAT THEIR VIRUS STOPS WITH THEM!
You can obfuscate with the dangers of people who don't know their status, but that is a separate issue.  You can (insanely) call my earlier analogy not relevant -- but you can not (please, make it so) disagree that we all have an obligation to keep our virus to ourselves.  If someone else is willing to take a risk for raw penetrative sex (or too naive to know better) - we don't then get carte blanche to load their ass with our cum.
You and Zohar are, in fact, the worst kind of poz individuals -- you know your status and you don't give a shit about whether it gets propagated.  You are public health threats on the same order as the denialists.

So -- YOU continue in your fantasy world, where you owe nothing to anyone, but I, also, will not sit quietly by and let you convince others that this is just a "difference of opinion".  It is NOT -- it is the difference between human beings and monsters.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #65 on: September 23, 2012, 02:06:26 PM »

You and Zohar are, in fact, the worst kind of poz individuals -- you know your status and you don't give a shit about whether it gets propagated.  You are public health threats on the same order as the denialists.



As far as I am concerned you are mistaken and what you write about me is libel and should not be allowed here.
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #66 on: September 23, 2012, 02:12:34 PM »
If I get banned from this site for calling someone a "despicable cuntwaffle" for behaving like a raving sociopath, or for calling out some awful vestige of humanity for agreeing with him, then my participation on this site had surely come to an end.



Yeah, if you are banned, and you should be,  your participation here will surely come to an end. 

Now if the mods like you for whatever reason and choose not to ban you that is their prerogative, but you know that your rude words should cause you to be banned. 

If they ban me because they don't like what I say, so be it, but they have chosen to be fair and impartial mods and not play favorites.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 02:14:09 PM by LiveWithIt »
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline Joe K

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #67 on: September 23, 2012, 02:14:23 PM »
As far as I am concerned you are mistaken and what you write about me is libel and should not be allowed here.

It's not libel, it's an opinion about the lack of your character.  You might not like it, but your own words have marked you.

Joe
Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

Though you may be only one person in the entire world, to one person, you may be the entire world.

I wish to become half the man, that my dog thinks I am.

Remember me with simple acts of kindness and I will live forever.

Online GSOgymrat

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #68 on: September 23, 2012, 02:16:20 PM »
As far as I am concerned you are mistaken and what you write about me is libel and should not be allowed here.

Can an anonymous person be subject to libel?

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #69 on: September 23, 2012, 02:33:18 PM »
It's not libel, it's an opinion about the lack of your character.  You might not like it, but your own words have marked you.

Joe

Him saying that I am a public health threat is not an opinion. 
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline Joe K

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #70 on: September 23, 2012, 02:34:59 PM »
Him saying that I am a public health threat is not an opinion.

Oh, but it is an opinion.  Just one you don't agree with, which is your right.  See how that works.

Joe
Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

Though you may be only one person in the entire world, to one person, you may be the entire world.

I wish to become half the man, that my dog thinks I am.

Remember me with simple acts of kindness and I will live forever.

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #71 on: September 23, 2012, 02:41:40 PM »
Oh, but it is an opinion.  Just one you don't agree with, which is your right.  See how that works.

Joe

No it's not, you must be hard of understanding, but he is stating it as a fact.  It's an absolute statement.  Saying someone is ugly or stupid is an opinion. 
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline Mus1cl0V3R

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #72 on: September 23, 2012, 02:44:07 PM »
Him saying that I am a public health threat is not an opinion.
Did you just subconsciously admit your guilt?

Offline bocker3

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #73 on: September 23, 2012, 02:45:20 PM »
As far as I am concerned you are mistaken and what you write about me is libel and should not be allowed here.

I don't think I'm mistaken at all...  you see I read ALL words in a post.  If you truly believe what you have written, I stand by my comment.

Plus............  I find it interesting how you seem to focus on the periphery of people's replies to your posts, but not the actual "meat".  You obfuscate and use red herrings, because you have no rational basis to defend the actions you are supporting. 

then again -- maybe you are simply trolling and just like to stir pots.

No it's not, you must be hard of understanding, but he is stating it as a fact.  It's an absolute statement.  Saying someone is ugly or stupid is an opinion. 
Not seeing any difference at all.  Of course, you do seem to have trouble grasping logical conclusion -- IMO.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #74 on: September 23, 2012, 02:45:36 PM »
Did you just subconsciously admit your guilt?

Not at all. 
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline Mus1cl0V3R

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #75 on: September 23, 2012, 02:47:52 PM »

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #76 on: September 23, 2012, 02:49:39 PM »
Well, In my NSHO you did.

I don't care about your Not So Honest Opinion. 
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline Ann

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #77 on: September 23, 2012, 02:50:02 PM »
My stomach has been churning too hard to write in this thread so far - other than my earlier warning directed at Jonathan over name-calling.

I'm having a difficult time comprehending that any of our members would advocate having UNPROTECTED intercourse - particularly as a top - with a person of unknown hiv status, without revealing one's own hiv POSITIVE status, UD VL or no UD VL.

Not disclosing when your VL is UD is nowhere near the same as not disclosing when condoms are used.

IF a condom breaks, you can then tell the person they need PEP. You don't have an alarm that goes off in your balls after you cum if you've just shot a poz-laden load and that means you can't tell them to get PEP. Unless of course you disclose, but hang on, you're supposed to do that FIRST, before you cum in them when you're BAREBACKING.

If some of you don't understand how damaging this non-disclosure when UD thing is to all of us, then good god, I don't know where to start.

Other people have taken a stab and it's falling on ... bricks. May as well be talking to walls.

Nobody's libeling anyone. Nobody's lying about UD hiv positive people who go around barebacking without letting their partner knowing their hiv positive, because it's been admitted in this thread. Nobody's lying when we say that those people present a danger to public health.

I'm soooo tempted to lock this thread down, but this NEEDS to be discussed. We've GOT to educate poz people WHY this is such a bad idea and how badly it hurts ALL of us.



Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Mus1cl0V3R

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #78 on: September 23, 2012, 02:54:03 PM »
I don't care about your Not So Honest Opinion.
Oh I am so hurt by you not caring.
Get over yourself.

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #79 on: September 23, 2012, 03:04:37 PM »
We've GOT to educate poz people WHY this is such a bad idea and how badly it hurts ALL of us.

We can't force poz people to not have bare sex with neg people or people who's status they don't know.  We can't even force them to take their meds so that if they do so the risk is much less.  We can't force them not to lie. 

We need to educate neg people that the only way they will stay neg is if they use a condom for penetrative sex all the time or not engage in it.   They are the only ones that can protect themselves 100%. 
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #80 on: September 23, 2012, 03:08:27 PM »
We can't force poz people to not have bare sex with neg people or people who's status they don't know.  We can't even force them to take their meds so that if they do so the risk is much less.  We can't force them not to lie. 

We need to educate neg people that the only way they will stay neg is if they use a condom for penetrative sex all the time or not engage in it.   They are the only ones that can protect themselves 100%.

It beggars belief how you've managed to totally exempt yourself of all responsibility in your actions when it comes to safe sex and making the virus stop with you.
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline Joe K

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #81 on: September 23, 2012, 03:09:22 PM »
No it's not, you must be hard of understanding, but he is stating it as a fact.  It's an absolute statement.  Saying someone is ugly or stupid is an opinion.

Save your insults for someone who cares what you think of them.  I don't care because I've seen your kind before and I'm sure we'll see them again.  My only role here is to make sure that readers understand how dangerous people are, who think like you.

Joe
Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

Though you may be only one person in the entire world, to one person, you may be the entire world.

I wish to become half the man, that my dog thinks I am.

Remember me with simple acts of kindness and I will live forever.

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #82 on: September 23, 2012, 03:09:40 PM »

We need to educate neg people that the only way they will stay neg is if they use a condom for penetrative sex all the time or not engage in it.   They are the only ones that can protect themselves 100%.

Okay, I'll bite.  You're saying that ALL poz people don't have a conscience?  Where is this documentation that you allude to that the majority of poz people deliberately seek to infect people outside of these sites where men actively seek to become infected or pass on their "gift" to someone else?

Fucking around in an environment exclusively for sex does not need to be considered when it comes to answering my question, as it has been ascertained on this thread already that most people don't discuss all the pertinent details when looking to bust a nut in a sex club, the baths, the woods, tearooms or other places meant for anonymous hookups.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 03:11:49 PM by Solo_LTSurvivor »
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #83 on: September 23, 2012, 03:11:08 PM »
It beggars belief how you've managed to totally exempt yourself of all responsibility in your actions when it comes to safe sex and making the virus stop with you.

I know the virus stops with me, but I know the virus does not stop.  I'm just realistic.  There are people willfully targeting neg people to infect.  I choose only poz partners and would not date a neg person. 
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline Ann

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #84 on: September 23, 2012, 03:14:20 PM »

We can't force poz people to not have bare sex with neg people or people who's status they don't know.  We can't even force them to take their meds so that if they do so the risk is much less.  We can't force them not to lie. 


Nobody is saying we can, but we can EDUCATE poz people as to why it's such a BAD idea! For EVERYONE. It's a bad idea for EVERYONE, poz and neg alike.


We need to educate neg people that the only way they will stay neg is if they use a condom for penetrative sex all the time or not engage in it.   They are the only ones that can protect themselves 100%. 


When was the last time you educated an hiv negative person about condom use? I do it every day, until I'm blue in the fucking face. Not just here on the internet either. I do it FACE TO FACE with people all the time.

We don't need people who already know their hiv status to be out there possibly infecting others when they can either

PUT A CONDOM ON IT,

disclose and let the other person decide for themselves or,

JUST SAY NO THANK YOU when someone tries to shove your bare dick in their ass.

Most of you do have some sort of hands-on, manual type control over which direction your dick goes, don't you? Maybe there's some remote control to the damn things that some people steal off you, that I just haven't found yet. 
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #85 on: September 23, 2012, 03:16:15 PM »
Okay, I'll bite.  You're saying that ALL poz people don't have a conscience? 

I never said that you did.  The point is that it there are some poz people who don't care who they infect.  The majority do have a conscience, but some don't.  Some not only do not have a conscience, they are maliciously spreading the virus. 

Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline bocker3

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #86 on: September 23, 2012, 03:27:25 PM »
We need to educate neg people that the only way they will stay neg is if they use a condom for penetrative sex all the time or not engage in it.   They are the only ones that can protect themselves 100%.

I'm going to say this to you one last time -- you'll probably just ignore it again, but WTF, maybe something will penetrate your thick head.

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT NEGATIVE FOLKS AREN'T 100% RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN WELL BEING. 

Now you, please, tell me how that has anything to do with  you sticking your bare cock up their ass without disclosing?  Please, for once, respond on how your "realistic viewpoint" removes ANY responsibility from the poz person.  It is your inability to grasp this fact that makes you a public health threat -- you either spread misinformation and/or you actively participate in behavior that might spread the virus.

Stop worrying about what others "might" do -- if every poz person acted responsibly, we'd not be having this conversation.  I know I can't "force" anyone else to do the right thing -- but I can ensure that I DO the right thing.  If we all have that mindset -- BINGO.

This thread is not about the negative people -- it's about the insensitive and ignorant poz people who eschew responsibilty and try to rationalize bad behavior.  It is THEY who help feed the flames of intolerance and stigma to ALL HIV+ individuals.  If you can't see that, well, then you are the monster I'm beginning to think that you are.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline bocker3

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #87 on: September 23, 2012, 03:28:49 PM »
Some not only do not have a conscience, they are maliciously spreading the virus.

You mean by fucking willing bottoms in a sex club without a condom and without disclosing???
Maybe there is hope for you yet!

M
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline leatherman

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #88 on: September 23, 2012, 03:32:08 PM »
I know the virus stops with me,
your statement about your action is completely wrong. your bareback sex is NOT stopping the virus. You quite possibly are continuing to spread HIV.

You and Zohar are, in fact, the worst kind of poz individuals -- you know your status and you don't give a shit about whether it gets propagated.  You are public health threats on the same order as the denialists.
this is the MOST important thing written as a response in this thread.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Oh my friends, my friends forgive me
That I live and you are gone.
There's a grief that can't be spoken.
There's a pain goes on and on.
Empty chairs at empty tables
Where my friends will meet no more.

"Empty Chairs at Empty Tables" from Les Miserables

Offline nixsmail

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #89 on: September 23, 2012, 03:53:32 PM »
I know the virus stops with me, but I know the virus does not stop.  I'm just realistic.  There are people willfully targeting neg people to infect.  I choose only poz partners and would not date a neg person. 

then why are you defending someone who doesn't appear to make that choice? if i have sex with someone then it's my responsibility to help protect them unless there is a discussion beforehand. i have had many friends die from this and would not, even unconsciously, give it to someone else. part of the problem is that the newly infected folks have not seen the devastation of this disease. i believe that this is leading to the cavalier attitude about passing it on.
09/05/07 Officially diagnosed +4yrs at the time
11/06/07 CD4 624 (18%) VL 43,200
05/04/09 CD4 272 (15%) VL 521,190
06/10/09 CD4 127 (13%) VL 626,376 Started Truvada/Prezista/Norvir
07/15/09 CD4 849 (20%) VL 379
09/09/09 CD4 594 (21%) VL 68
01/28/10 CD4 706 (23%) VL 127
05/27/10 CD4 655 (22%) VL 322
07/29/10 CD4 750 (22%) VL 220
10/22/10 CD4 669 (23%) VL 65
12/27/10 CD4 720 (24%) VL 270
03/08/11 CD4 644 (23%) VL 631
07/27/11 CD4 694 (23%) VL <20
03/09/12 CD4 601 (20%) VL UND
11/07/12 CD4 693 (23%) VL UND
04/17/13 CD4 559 (23%) VL UND
11/07/13 CD4 846 (24%) VL UND
03/28/14 CD4 869 (24%) VL UND

Offline karry

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #90 on: September 23, 2012, 04:07:42 PM »
I never said that you did.  The point is that it there are some poz people who don't care who they infect.   The majority do have a conscience, but some don't.  Some not only do not have a conscience, they are maliciously spreading the virus.

...you seem to be contradicting yourself here. You support views that its okay for a pos person to have unsafe sex without disclosing....then you turn around and say "there are some poz people who dont care who they infect".
..sure, there are. And you seem to be their advocate!

Karry
Take it a day at a time....and be positive about it too!

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #91 on: September 23, 2012, 04:23:10 PM »
I don't think I have made a mistake and, thus, would do the same thing again.

sociopath = a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial,  often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience. 
    Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sociopath

Among the traits of a sociopath - there are 20 recognized and listed on the site
      (Source: http://www.sociopathicstyle.com/traits/classic.htm)
1) pathological lying
2) conning and manipulativeness                             CHECK
3) lack of remorse or guilt                                       CHECK
4) shallow affect                                                     CHECK
5) poor behavioral controls                                      CHECK
6) promiscuous sexual behavior                               CHECK
7) impulsivity                                                         CHECK
8 ) irresponsibility                                                   CHECK
9) failure to accept responsibility for own actions       CHECK

In regards to the high degree of acknowledgment from government officials regarding the public health threat created by nondisclosure, the Canadian governments policy work group - following the Calgary model follows a tiered approach (with high risk, willful nondisclosure reaching the highest level of action):
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/ccdr-rmtc/05vol31/dr3105a-eng.php

In acknowledgment of the public health threat =
Notifiable diseases under the Infectious Disease Act:
AIDS and HIV are both listed:
http://www.hpb.gov.sg/HOPPortal/health-article/476

Considering that someone an HIV+ person is knowingly and willingly having sex without disclosing is placing a threat on the health of another person, which constitutes a threat to public health

Libel =
A false publication, as in writing, print, signs, or pictures, that damages a person's reputation
  Source: http://www.answers.com/topic/libel

Given what the OP has stated and the information contained above, I would think that he or anyone else sharing such beliefs or committing such activities, would have a difficult, if not impossible time, proving libel - not to mention that pursuing such an action would require him to disclose..... hmmmm, wouldn't that be ironic.

BTW, on another note: the Urban Dictionary actually defines "cuntwaffle" as a term of endearment (such as "bro", "homey", or "cunty" - Source: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=CUNTWAFFLE&defid=997933)
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 04:37:02 PM by phildinftlaudy »
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline anniebc

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #92 on: September 23, 2012, 05:09:23 PM »
I don't think I have made a mistake and, thus, would do the same thing again.

I have ben reading this thread for a coupe of days now and really can't beieve what I reading from the likes of Zohar and LiveWithit.

I can't believe that a man who is telling the world he will, and is, happily spread HIV is allowed to remain a member of this support forum, a forum that prides its self with experts who work hard at keeping people upto date with the latest information, and who bend over backwards to educate those who are living with HIV and who actually care about keeping others safe, this person is definately a sociapath and cares for no-one but his own selfish needs....he needs to go...followed by his mate LiveWithit.

His posts and comments are not doing the forum any good at all, I personally would like to see his membership taken away from him.

Jan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #93 on: September 23, 2012, 05:27:25 PM »
I can't believe that a man who is telling the world he will, and is, happily spread HIV is allowed to remain a member of this support forum, a forum that prides its self with experts who work hard at keeping people upto date with the latest information, and who bend over backwards to educate those who are living with HIV and who actually care about keeping others safe, this person is definately a sociapath and cares for no-one but his own selfish needs....he needs to go...followed by his mate LiveWithit.

His posts and comments are not doing the forum any good at all, I personally would like to see his membership taken away from him.


I agree completely  - in addition to his post damaging the credibility of the forums - I also place for consideration of the administrators that his post definitely are not the type of thing that potential (or current) advertisers like to see.... At a time when the forum are trying to earn revenue to keep the place "open for business" I don't think it is wise to maintain the membership of those who are basically advocating for purposeful, willful nondisclosure - non-consideration of their ability to infect others - and lack of responsibility or accountability for their actions. And, follow it up with posting that he feels he has done nothing wrong and would continue to do such actions....

If I were an advertiser, I wouldn't want my product or service associated with such statements - particularly on a fully search engine "searchable" forum that reaches every major search engine that businesses use.

Even with the right of freedom of speech - one is not allowed to shout "fire" in a crowded theatre - I would think the same premise holds true for espousing a that it is acceptable for an HIV+ person to knowingly put others at risk of acquiring the virus through his wanten disregard to disclose and to use protection.

User-based content scares advertisers for this very reason...however, it does not have to scare them if the adminstrators of a site ban such persons who not only pose a public health risk through their sociopathic actions, but who also pose a sustainability risk to this site through their posts.

September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline anniebc

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #94 on: September 23, 2012, 05:31:08 PM »
Jonathon

Do not let the behaviour of others spoil your inner peace or the goodness that is you.....Dalai Lama.

You are so much better than those two Jonathon, they shouldn't be allowed to breath the same air as you, we need you, but we don't need them.....Anniebc.

Aroha always
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 05:33:05 PM by anniebc »
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #95 on: September 23, 2012, 05:37:24 PM »
Living in a Snow White fantasy world will help no one here.  If you want this place to be holier than thou then make sure that  people who know what's going out there pretend that they don't.  This is supposed to be an Aids Community Forum which means you should allow all voices to be heard. 

You people who think you are better than everyone else and judge people are disgusting. 
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #96 on: September 23, 2012, 05:44:49 PM »

You people who think you are better than everyone else and judge people are disgusting. 

Hey! THAT IS LIBEL!
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #97 on: September 23, 2012, 05:46:28 PM »
Living in a Snow White fantasy world will help no one here.  If you want this place to be holier than thou then make sure that  people who know what's going out there pretend that they don't.  This is supposed to be an Aids Community Forum which means you should allow all voices to be heard. 

You people who think you are better than everyone else and judge people are disgusting.

And it isn't disgusting to knowingly put other people's lives at risk and take no responsibility for it?
And, no one is denying what takes place in the world - they are just not willing to give an open microphone for people such as you and Zohar to spew your murderous beliefs in a publicly searchable forum.

This has to do with actual beliefs and actions based on those beliefs -
It is people that condone such beliefs that are a reason behind the discrimination and stigma that others with HIV face today.
Why not reveal your face and name and walk around with an HIV positive t-shirt on? Oh, that's right - you wouldn't because you know that you would face stigma, discrimination, and perhaps violence against you... So instead, you condone the OP stating that he is okay with knowingly putting others at risk by having bareback sex and does not hold himself even remotely responsible for his actions.

What is disgusting is that the collective voices of members who have been on these forums for a great number of years (many since the inception of the forums) have not yet been heard in regards to shitcanning Zohar (who has a pattern of posting topics with the mere goal of incitation) and you for perpetuating and accenting his beliefs and actions... perhaps, these voices of expertise and reason will be heard and action will be taken and then you and your sociopathic partner can "livewithit" together.

Judge that.
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline Joe K

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #98 on: September 23, 2012, 05:52:54 PM »
Living in a Snow White fantasy world will help no one here.  If you want this place to be holier than thou then make sure that  people who know what's going out there pretend that they don't.  This is supposed to be an Aids Community Forum which means you should allow all voices to be heard. 

You people who think you are better than everyone else and judge people are disgusting.

Yes this is an AIDS forum, but not all voices are equal.  In the same way that we deny the posting of any denialists, it would follow that we should prevent anyone from advocating for intentionally spreading HIV.  It's not like you don't understand how your behaviour is abhorrent to the goals of this forum.  You have dozens of replies telling you that we will never support the spread of HIV through irresponsible behaviour.

Nobody here even suggested they were better than anyone else, however we have accurately described you and your intentions.  You just don't like the fact that you have been called on your behaviour and opinions.

Joe
Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

Though you may be only one person in the entire world, to one person, you may be the entire world.

I wish to become half the man, that my dog thinks I am.

Remember me with simple acts of kindness and I will live forever.

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: Unprotected sex, disclosure and sexual health clinics
« Reply #99 on: September 23, 2012, 05:53:26 PM »
So instead, you condone the OP stating that he is okay with knowingly putting others at risk by having bareback sex and does not hold himself even remotely responsible for his actions.



I never said I condone his actions because I don't. 
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

 


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