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Author Topic: observation (tell me if you disagree)  (Read 1402 times)

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Offline SouthSam7

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observation (tell me if you disagree)
« on: October 14, 2013, 02:44:34 AM »
I had a realization last night lying in bed that those who are suicidal are not necessarily suffering from a mental illness.  For me, I think about checking out because I am suffering with physical pain.  It affects my social life and career.

I say this because whenever you go to a therapist or some doctors they will ask you if you think about hurting yourself.  Of course I'm thinking yes but I never tell them that because they would admit me to a hospital for PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION.  They don't think to ask WHY.

Does anyone else think about checking out due to physical pain and it's associated side-effects?

Peace,
Sam

Offline ARMANDO

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Re: observation (tell me if you disagree)
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2013, 07:09:44 AM »
I think everyone at some point has considered suicide .unfortunately only a few of my friends actually committed suicide shortly after their diagnosis.i myself swallowed a entire bottle of sleeping pills.i realized that i had left so many things undone and did not want my family to deal with my financial stuff.I called my brother and he knew immediately that something was wrong and he called an ambulance,the rest was kind of foggy.when in the hospital i realized that i would not be released unless i convinced my psychiatrist that i knew that what i did was wrong and that i would never attempt suicide again.TWENTY THREE years later ,i am still here but all of my friends are all gone.SOMETIMES I THINK THAT MY SURVIVAL IS MY PUNISHMENT FOR ALL THE THINGS THAT I HAVE DONE WRONG!!!!

Offline SouthSam7

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Re: observation (tell me if you disagree)
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2013, 11:45:25 AM »
I hope you are getting therapy; I think it helps.

I was wondering if anyone considered suicide for pain and fatigue, not depression or other mental condition.

Offline darryaz

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  • Posts: 450
Re: observation (tell me if you disagree)
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2013, 12:30:21 PM »
I have been a loved one left behind after a suicide.  Being left with that kind of mess and the guilt, anger, and sorrow that came with it took many years away from me. 

I have to believe that my loved one underestimated the effect it would have on me and others and would not have taken his life if he could have realized the extent of the devastation.

Please consider that before taking such a final step.

Edit:  My loved one resorted to suicide from a combination of physical pain and mental conditions.

Offline ohwell

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Re: observation (tell me if you disagree)
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2013, 01:35:35 PM »
I'm no expert but i guess there's gotta be a mental illness somehow. I remember months ago i started taking meds and i had terible suicidal thoughts, i was convinced it was the meds so i didnt pay much atterntion and those thoughts went away.

But 2 months ago i started limping and had a problema with one leg, the pain was horrible and me not being able to climb (the only sport i enjoy) and then i started thinking about giving up.

It's weird hiv never put me in a state of desperation but feeling pain and limping ofr two months did. So my point is some people value more things than others.

Btw pain is gone now and i'm on my way to full recovery
they made me do it

Offline tednlou2

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Re: observation (tell me if you disagree)
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2013, 02:04:27 PM »
Can a person in constant, extreme pain not have depression?  I don't know.   

How bad is your pain?  Are you at a 10 everyday?  Or, most days?  Are you getting pain control treatment?  I know that doesn't always help, or it leaves people feeling out of it, because they are on very strong doses to help treat the pain.  Perhaps you could give more background on your pain.  What causes the pain?  Is your pain not the type that non-medication therapy will help? 



Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: observation (tell me if you disagree)
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2013, 02:39:40 PM »
I had a realization last night lying in bed that those who are suicidal are not necessarily suffering from a mental illness.  For me, I think about checking out because I am suffering with physical pain.  It affects my social life and career.

I say this because whenever you go to a therapist or some doctors they will ask you if you think about hurting yourself.  Of course I'm thinking yes but I never tell them that because they would admit me to a hospital for PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION.  They don't think to ask WHY.

Does anyone else think about checking out due to physical pain and it's associated side-effects?

Peace,
Sam

I am very sorry to hear you are suffering like this.

However, I think you are setting up a false dichotomy. Meaning, of course, many people consider, attempt, or achieve suicide due to pain.   I personally know some.  So are you believing this is not legitimate? Not normal?  Not something that happens? Of course, some eople want to die if they are in horrible pain.   

I find it strange that you switch from the "I" - talking about yourself - to the impersonal "you" - when you write this: 

I say this because whenever you go to a therapist or some doctors they will ask you if you think about hurting yourself.  Of course I'm thinking yes but I never tell them that because they would admit me to a hospital for PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION.  They don't think to ask WHY.

How do YOU know what doctors are going to say to you, if you claim you have never told a doctor that you are suicidal because of pain? 

Doctors will want to screen a suicidal person for depression or mental illness.  But I do not think many doctors will dismiss out of hand a frank expression that it is about pain.  If its about pain, certainly there will be at least one good doctor who will go forward on this, and attempt to treat the pain, and the suicidal thoughts because of that.

Not knowing where you are, it is true, certainly, that saying "I am suicidal" is sufficient for doctors to send a person to a controlled facility for evaluation of what is happening, and for straightforward suicide prevention. Depending on the country, or the state.  Yes. 

But I do not believe that a discussion about pain will be dismissed, once admitted.  No doctor worth his/her diplomas and experience is going to insist its about depression or mental illness.  Especially if a suicidal person HAS been evaluated, mental illness has been ruled out, and "pain" has been acknowledged....
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 02:46:07 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Since2005

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Re: observation (tell me if you disagree)
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2013, 06:14:50 PM »
I find it strange that you switch from the "I" - talking about yourself - to the impersonal "you" - when you write this: 

I say this because whenever you go to a therapist or some doctors they will ask you if you think about hurting yourself.  Of course I'm thinking yes but I never tell them that because they would admit me to a hospital for PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION.  They don't think to ask WHY.

How do YOU know what doctors are going to say to you, if you claim you have never told a doctor that you are suicidal because of pain? 


Mecch, I noticed that you have acknowledged his sufferings. However, I am not sure I understand what are you trying to say here. I don't think it's important to point out of the usage of YOU and I. I am actually surprised that would even be a question here?

OP is suffering and what word he is using in the state of his mind is irrelevant here.

To OP - I do agree that sometimes, even when one may feel suicidal may not want to share with docs or therapists because he/she is not willing to take the consequences. However, according to Docs point of view - they can't force you to say things that they don't want to say which I believe puts you in a tougher situation because you are not able to share your "true" feelings and talk through these.

I will give you an example – I know someone who committed suicide in few months after he had started going to therapy. His teenage son found himself dead in the house. It turns out later (not sure how) that he has never spoken with therapist about his suicidal thoughts and that cost him the life!

I know you might be in a harder predicament when you can't tell your therapist about your true feelings but then again that may come with some price later (if you think it that way).

It is important to know – what are you feeling now you might feel differently tomorrow. I am sure all (if not most) of us here have gone through similar situations where we had thought at some point in our life (due to medication, personal, whatever reasons) “This” is the only way, but, I can assure you that this feeling that you are feeling, it will pass. I can't say life is wonderful and beautiful to someone who is in crucial pain. But, I can tell you this – whatever you are going through now, you may not feel the same way, you may feel differently tomorrow. For physical pain - can docs help you on that? I am sorry you are suffering terribly.

One thing I wanted to suggest - Can you please tell about your suicidal thoughts to your therapist? Let him/her handle the situation, whatever your therapist suggests will be better than not living. I hope you consider this. My deepest sympathy to you, I do hope that you feel better soon. Warm Wishes!



Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: observation (tell me if you disagree)
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2013, 07:00:34 PM »
To Since:  in other words, I am saying pretty much the same as you.  It's not a criticism of grammar its an observation about word choice.  Not clear if the OP has frankly discussed unbearable pain and the resulting suicide ideation with his/her doctor, and it seems necessary to do so.

to the OP SouthSam, yes my observation is that it might be best not to assume what happens to "someone" when he/she admits suicide ideation.  If you haven't discussed the unbearableness of the pain with a doctor, and the suicidal thoughts because of pain, perhaps you should do that.  Yes, it may result in some complications -- a mental health screening -- but in the end probably only a doctor can address the two issues - pain management, and suicide ideation...  (And doctors do have to take a suicide statement seriously, there are procedures...)

I hope I was more clear.  :D

« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 07:17:36 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Joe K

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Re: observation (tell me if you disagree)
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2013, 08:44:23 PM »
Hey Sam,

I believe that anyone who is driven to suicide, has some sort of mental illness at play, however, I don't think you need mention that aspect to anyone, at least not at first.  I would suggest you try and see some type of pain specialist and share with them your pain and how disruptive it is to your life.

Just because you "think" about suicide, does not make you suicidal and any competent doctor can understand extreme physical discomfort, leading one to find any way to alleviate that suffering.  If you can find a decent pain doctor, there may be relief possible and it may be much easier that you believe.

I've lived with partners who experienced extremely painful conditions.  They both were successful in treating that pain, but sometimes it took real persistence to find a doctor to treat the actual symptoms.  I would suggest you focus on alleviating the pain and you can do that, without sharing everything that you may feel.

Best of luck.

Joe

Offline LiveWithIt

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  • Posts: 377
Re: observation (tell me if you disagree)
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2013, 09:55:39 PM »
I think everyone at some point has considered suicide .
I never have, but if I was in severe pain or I was paralyzed or had limbs amputated or went blind I would consider it.
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline wolfter

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  • Posts: 4,389
Re: observation (tell me if you disagree)
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2013, 12:55:52 PM »
I guess each of us will have a different view on this as it's so personal.  Our experiences differ and therefore each of us is unique in our thoughts. 

I come from a generation where "suicide pacts" were common.  We had no issues discussing this over drinks, and actually benefiting from dealing with our impending deaths.  Something that most 20 somethings don't even think about. 

I've shared this before, and apologize to those who've read it before but I think it's relevant to this mindset.  Even though I've never considered actually taking my own life, I made the decision to commit sanctioned suicide by stopping meds.  I was actually happy for a while knowing it all would end.  I was ok with death, but the process was horrid.

The worst pains I experienced were not a result of the physical illnesses, but rather the emotional/mental pains.  Now, looking back, I'm fearful that I allowed myself to get to such a dark place.  Could it happen again? 

In many ways, I also feel it liberated me and allows me enjoy every opportunity that living affords. 

I'm always concerned when someone's thought processes reveal that suicide is a reasonable option. 

Wolfie
productivity breeds content

Offline weasel

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Re: observation (tell me if you disagree)
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2013, 09:12:38 PM »
I guess each of us will have a different view on this as it's so personal.  Our experiences differ and therefore each of us is unique in our thoughts. 

I come from a generation where "suicide pacts" were common.  We had no issues discussing this over drinks, and actually benefiting from dealing with our impending deaths.  Something that most 20 somethings don't even think about. 

I've shared this before, and apologize to those who've read it before but I think it's relevant to this mindset.  Even though I've never considered actually taking my own life, I made the decision to commit sanctioned suicide by stopping meds.  I was actually happy for a while knowing it all would end.  I was ok with death, but the process was horrid.

The worst pains I experienced were not a result of the physical illnesses, but rather the emotional/mental pains.  Now, looking back, I'm fearful that I allowed myself to get to such a dark place.  Could it happen again? 

In many ways, I also feel it liberated me and allows me enjoy every opportunity that living affords. 

I'm always concerned when someone's thought processes reveal that suicide is a reasonable option. 

Wolfie

   I agree with Wolfie on most of this  , in the mid 1980's more than a few times this topic came up .
   We knew what we were heading into and we feared not dying but the pain and suffering .
 I personally had a plan all set out , It was not rare !
   Depression had nothing to do with ending lives , FEAR DID ! 

    As for living with pain ?  I Can do that fairly easily , most can .  But at what level do you say
enough is enough ?   
    A few months ago I  decided  to ask my  I.D. Doctor for pain pills , After listening to what Jeff G.
 had to say , I have only taken a few , and non in months .
  I do not wish to have a Monkey on my back Nor will I ever live to see AIDS ravage my body .

                                                                          Weasel

 P.s. : Today I found out my MEDS are killing me .   I will have more tests very soon to see
 how I can overcome this minor but annoying setback !
" Live and let Live "

Offline intaglio

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  • Doesn't have to pay for vowels
Re: observation (tell me if you disagree)
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2013, 10:05:18 AM »
I say this because whenever you go to a therapist or some doctors they will ask you if you think about hurting yourself.  Of course I'm thinking yes but I never tell them that because they would admit me to a hospital for PSYCHOLOGICAL EVALUATION.  They don't think to ask WHY.

Sam,

I have dealt with chronic depression my whole life. Each and every medical professional to whom I have admitted having thoughts of hurting myself has asked why. They did so to find out how willing I was to follow through on those thoughts.

None of these discussions ended with me being 5150'd. If anything the discussions helped the professional better evaluate my mental state and POV of my issues.

As long as you convey you are having the thoughts but not feeling the need to act on them, it can only help you to divulge you are dealing with them.

FWIW, early on, I recognized my dark thoughts as a reaction to the dysfunctional environment in which I grew up. I decided suicide would be a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Today I found out my MEDS are killing me .   

Been there. Done that. Have the hospital bills to show for it. Sorry to hear you're dealing with it, too. Hopefully your turnaround will be quick.
Reality is frequently inaccurate.

 


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