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Author Topic: Getting Meds with crappy insurance.....  (Read 2748 times)

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Offline racingmind

  • Member
  • Posts: 236
Getting Meds with crappy insurance.....
« on: October 04, 2006, 06:28:01 PM »
Hi Everyone....

Hope all is well....I have a question.  Hopefully someone has been down a similar road and might be able to help me out with some advice.

My doctor wants me to start Atripla next month so I started looking into my health insurance a little closer.  I called them and they said the drug was covered under my plan.  Great.  I do, however, have a $2500 cap my my medications for the year.  So far this year, I have spend about $50 of it.  Now I know that Atripla is very expensive, so my plan will not even come anywhere near covering the cost for a years worth.  I called Gilead (the makers of Atripla) to see about the plan they offer and got an application.  I also signed up for a case manager through my local social services agency but will have to wait a few days until I get assigned someone. Are there any other things I should be looking into at this point?.  My crappy insurance plan, which I pay for myself on my meager salary should cover hopefully about 2 months worth if I'm lucky, but what am I going to do after that?   

Also, My doctor wants me to get 2nd round of blood tests the 1st week of November, and then go see him during the 3rd week of November.  At that time I think he will prescribe the Atripla.  I don't know if I want to be experiencing the intial side effects over the Thanksgiving holiday.   I'm afraid that I'll get a rash or something obvious and have it be noticed by my family.  I don't want to tell them anything just yet until I get everything under control and I'm more comfortable in my own skin again.  I also don't want a crying scene and the worry that follows.   I'm torn.   Any thoughts about anything that I have said here would be greatly appreciated.   THANKS

Dxx
Tested Negative: 5/06
Tested Positive: 9/06 
9/06: CD4: 442 (28%) VL: +100,000
10/06: CD4: 323 (25%) VL: 243,440
11/06: CD4: 405 (28%) VL: 124,324
12/06: CD4: 450 (29%) VL: 114,600
1/07: CD4: 440 (27%) VL: 75,286
3/07: CD4: 459 (30%) VL: 44,860
5/07: CD4: 353 (24%) VL: 50,852
7/07: CD4: 437 (29%) VL: 39,475
9/07: CD4: 237 (32%) VL: 372,774
10/07: CD4: 324 (27%) VL: 115,454 
Started Atripla: 10/07
11/07: CD4: 524 (?%) VL: Undetectable!
2/08: CD4: 653 (35%) VL: undetectable
5/08: CD4: 822 (40%) VL: undetectable
8/08: CD4: 626 (35%) VL: undetectable
12/08: CD4: 619 (36%) VL: undetectable
3/09: CD4: 802 (38%) VL: undetectable
7/09: CD4: 1027 (43%) VL: not tested
10/09: CD4: 1045 (43%) VL: undetectable

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: Getting Meds with crappy insurance.....
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2006, 06:51:47 PM »
Racing,

Gotta have more information.

Are you in the United States, and if so, in what state do you reside.  Ryan White CARE Act is the funder of most such services, however, this varies by state.  Part of the CARE Act is ADAP, or AIDS Drug Assistance Program.  This is the part that will pay for HIV medications, but only if you are in a state that has an ADAP that is not bankrupt, as many are.  Please go ahead and fill out the application you got from the drug company, and I would also reccomend that you do so for any of the other companies, as they all have plans that cover people who cannot afford the meds.

Now, about the family and Thanksgiving.  I wouldn't say a word until you have a firm grip on your own life, as this is not the arena for announcements such as "Guesss what family, I am now HIV+".  I know you know that but I found it amusing that you even broached the subject here.  I think from what you have given here, shows that you are probably a strong person, so I would just sit down, write out a list of questions for the doctor, your new Case Manager, and then just proceed with what you learn.

Come on back here and see what shakes out with any questions that you find weird, and if the CM tells you anything that sounds strange, let us know.  Some of us are really well versed on Ryan White, and if someone is telling you some ka-ka-me-me bullshit, we will let you know how it should really be. 

All that depends on what country you are in, and if in the U.S., what state.

Let us know.

In Love and Support.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Lou-ah-vull

  • Member
  • Posts: 944
Re: Getting Meds with crappy insurance.....
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2006, 07:17:14 PM »
I agree with Moffie (I almost always do.)  This is a big screaming "STOP" sign.  I just posted earlier that this is my first anniversary of diagnosis.  I remember so clearly the strong impulse to tell family members.  By grace, I found this website, read the lesson on disclosure, calmed down, and realized I needed to be in control of this information.  To date, I still have not disclosed except to my doctors and one close friend.  Remember, you can't take it back once you have disclosed....so proceed carefully.

Good luck with applying for assistance.  I know many here will be able to guide and support you through the process.

Gary
Diagnosed Oct. 2005
10/05:  367 (26.2%), 24556 VL
01/06:  344 (24.6%), 86299 VL
04/06:  374 (22.0%), 87657 VL
05/06:  Began HAART 05/15/06, Combivir/Kaletra
07/06:  361 (27.8%), 1299 VL
10/06:  454 (32.4%), 55 VL
01/07:  499 (38.4%), UD
02/07:  Switched to Atripla 2/8/07
04/07:  566 (37.7%), UD
08/07:  761 (42.3%), UD
06/08:  659 (47.1%), UD
01/09:  613 (43.8%), UD
07/09:  616 (47.4%), UD
01/10:  530 (44.2%), UD
07/10:  636 (48.9%), UD
01/11:  627 (48.2%), UD
07/11:  840 (52.5%), UD
01/12:  920 (51.1%), UD
07/12:  857 (50.4%), 40
10/12:  UD
01/13:  710 (47.3%), UD
07/13:  886 (49.2%), UD
01/14:  985 (46.9%), UD
06/14:  823 (47.2%), UD

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Getting Meds with crappy insurance.....
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2006, 07:34:52 PM »
Hi Race,

I just had a peek at your other posts and discovered that you are fairly newly infected. You really don't need to rush into treatment - you might be able to go for years without. You've only had one set of results back so far and that is not enough to see a trend nor base such a life changing decision on.

My advice to you would be to slow down. Research the pros and cons of starting treatment so early. I've been positive for over nine years now and I still don't need meds, so it is possible and it might be possible for you too. If you jump in straight away with the meds, you might never find out. Your numbers really aren't bad, especially as you are still in your first year and your body is still adjusting. You've got time to make an informed decision, don't let anyone rush you into the meds - they are a serious commitment.

Check out the Lessons, there are a couple on the subject of when to start.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline stevevaboy

  • Member
  • Posts: 60
  • In disguise ;>)
Re: Getting Meds with crappy insurance.....
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2006, 08:02:03 PM »
Definitely a good idea to check into ADAP - when needed!  I applied here in California (a very liberal state, of course) and I now have my drugs paid for - every little bit helps!  I'm on COBRA insurance for the time being, so I'm paying for that monthly, but at least I'm saving around $75 per month by not having to pay the 3 co-pays for my 3 meds. I think the salary limit here is like $50k to join ADAP.

Now if I could just find a source to help me pay the damn mortgage I'd have it made!!

Steve
;0

Offline MSPspud

  • Member
  • Posts: 613
  • Joined Mar 2005 - Formerly UofMurbs
Re: Getting Meds with crappy insurance.....
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2006, 08:08:40 PM »
Hello Race -

Ann is right on the money when she says you have some time to wait.  Treatment is usually recommended when the CD4 reaches 350 or lower (in the US).  Until that time, I would focus on improving your insurance situation either through a change of employment or getting yourself signed up for an aid program.  It took about 4 years from infection until I needed meds and if in a pinch, I could have gone longer.  Today I am doing just fine on them.  Finally, if your doctor wants you on medications that badly, have them consider enrolling you in a trial perhaps. 

You'll be fine, trust me.  You're still in control considering your CD4, which is a much better position then finding out when you have full blown AIDS.  Get a case manager and prepare by changing your living situation best you can.

BTW, a simple and affordable multi-vitamin could also elongate your time off meds.

Jason

Offline aztecan

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,382
  • 29 years positive, 56 years a pain in the butt
Re: Getting Meds with crappy insurance.....
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2006, 09:13:38 AM »
Hey Race,
First, you do indeed still have some time to think about starting meds, as Ann and others have said. So try not to rush into it until you get the financing thing sorted out.

Now, regarding your crappy coverage, I know someone who was in precisely the same situation. Earlier this year, he was to start meds but his his insurance had a very similar cap as yours.

Basically, it is useless.

I was able to contact the state and, after discussion, he was placed on ADAP. The director of the state's HIV Program also recommended he drop the prescription coverage because, in her words, it didn't meet the state's definition of insurance.

You have already taken the first steps in signing up for a case manager. I am presuming you are in the U.S. If you are in a state where ADAP is still intact, that may be a viable option for you.

Good luck and keep us posted on what happens.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline racingmind

  • Member
  • Posts: 236
Re: Getting Meds with crappy insurance.....
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2006, 04:28:41 PM »
WOW thanks for the advice everyone.  Yes, I am in the US (Pennsylvania).  I looked into the ADAP program here a while ago.  I think I would qualify (presuming that the program is in viable shape and not bankrupt). The website is up and running and lists the criteria, so I think it is in fairly good shape, but hey what the hell do I know at this point?
 I think you might have misunderstood me about Thanksgiving....I have NO intention of disclosing to my family at this point.  I was worried that there might be obvious visible side effects that would raise questions.  I am very close to my family, but I do not want them to worry about about me...which they will when I eventually tell them.  In a perfect scenario, I would love to tell them years from now when I am doing just fine and leading a (relatively) normal life again.  As far as work goes, I am currently temping when I can.  I can work as little or as much as I like, however, I am receiving no benefits.  That is why I am paying for my own.  Obviously, I wasn't planning on becoming positive or I would have picked a better plan.

As far as starting meds, I think the doctor wants to start me on meds because my viral load is so large (over 100,000) and I'm having symptoms.  I am exhausted all the time and have some painful lymph node swelling.  He gave me the analogy of the train speeding toward the brick wall...anyone heard that one before?  Well, apparently I am speeding along at a good clip.  But this is based on one set of numbers.  The doctor told me that my immune system is fine(CD4: 442) for the time being, but he still recommended meds sometime next month.  I am torn between wanting to feel better and wanting to wait it out a bit to see what happens.   Since I got the news, I have been taking multivitamins and eating foods with lots of antioxidants.  I figure it can't hurt.  I guess that I should at least wait until I get a second set of numbers.  I asked the doctor if i had already "spiked" concerning the viral load and he thought that I had months ago....that the +100,000 number is where I am hovering....   I don't know what to do.  This doctor comes highly recommended. I like him and want to trust him, but we have only had one meeting so far.  I called him and he called me back the next day, but I wasn't home.  I am still waiting to hear back so that I can ask some more questions. 
I certainly wasn't expecting to have to go on meds so soon, but if it will make me feel better I'm inclined to do so.  I just want to feel healthy again.  I sure don't at this point.   I think that I was infected last April.  Isn't that enough time for the virus to get a strong hold on someone? I know that where this disease is concerned there are very few absolutes.....seems like different bodies react differently....   
Thanks again Ann, Jason, Steve, Mark, Gary, & Moffie for your advice and support.  It means a lot.

Dxx
Tested Negative: 5/06
Tested Positive: 9/06 
9/06: CD4: 442 (28%) VL: +100,000
10/06: CD4: 323 (25%) VL: 243,440
11/06: CD4: 405 (28%) VL: 124,324
12/06: CD4: 450 (29%) VL: 114,600
1/07: CD4: 440 (27%) VL: 75,286
3/07: CD4: 459 (30%) VL: 44,860
5/07: CD4: 353 (24%) VL: 50,852
7/07: CD4: 437 (29%) VL: 39,475
9/07: CD4: 237 (32%) VL: 372,774
10/07: CD4: 324 (27%) VL: 115,454 
Started Atripla: 10/07
11/07: CD4: 524 (?%) VL: Undetectable!
2/08: CD4: 653 (35%) VL: undetectable
5/08: CD4: 822 (40%) VL: undetectable
8/08: CD4: 626 (35%) VL: undetectable
12/08: CD4: 619 (36%) VL: undetectable
3/09: CD4: 802 (38%) VL: undetectable
7/09: CD4: 1027 (43%) VL: not tested
10/09: CD4: 1045 (43%) VL: undetectable

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: Getting Meds with crappy insurance.....
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2006, 05:08:10 PM »
Hi Dxx,

Well, now you spelled it out, and for the time being, I would go ahead and talk with MD, and see if you can't wait for at least a three month take on the numbers.  Maybe you could get labs done in six weeks and then repeat again in another six weeks, as this would be a far better indication than any assumptions that you or the MD might make.  Waiting for that three lab account would not terribly affect the CD4 count as far as I can tell, as this disease is unmercifully slow in any changes.  Also, if your CD4 is currently above the 350 mark, you should be in safe territory to wait a bit and make a more educated guess about starting meds.  After all, once you start, you must keep going with them, and do so for the rest of your natural or unatural life. 

Just remember, many of us didn't start medications for 10 years or more, but I am also aware that we were infected with viruses that were not quite as astute in their mutations as the ones that are currently going around.  What this means is that many times people are required to start medications far earlier than we had to, simply because the virus that you were infected with is more than likely a stronger mutation than say the one I was infected with in 1983.

Anyway, I would not rush into med therapy until you have established a very clear idea of where your virus is at this point.  You might still see a reduction out of the 100K territory, simply by changing your lifestyle. 

Sleep
Animal Protein
At least a Gallon of water each day
Exercise, (even light will help)
Antioxidants
Vitamins
A terribly clean environment.  (Clean that kitchen and bath with bleach)
Stay away from sick people as much as possible.

There are many things that will help, but if you did just the above list, you would be clearing the way for your immune system to respond with strength, and in the end possibly reduce the vl to a more appropriate number.

In Love and Support.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,134
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Getting Meds with crappy insurance.....
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2006, 05:19:24 PM »
Hi Race,

Yes, I've heard that train analogy before in several different versions. Thing is, they can't tell the speed of your train with one set of numbers. One result is a snapshot in time, not a video. See what I mean?

You think you were infected in April - that's barely six months ago. It's not so much a case of the virus having time to take hold as it is your body having a chance to deal with the new resident. This takes time.

Please have a look at Longislander's thread - http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=3915.0 - sorry I couldn't make it into a fancy link, I'm having trouble with my cut and paste tonight (long story). Anyway, Long's thread deals with the same thing you are - whether to start or wait to see if your numbers improve and stabilise.

I'm not so sure I agree with Moffie's assertion that the virus is more aggressive (astute in mutations) now days. I think different people just react differently. Out of eight people who were infected by the same person around the same time, I'm the only one left not on meds. Four people had to go on meds right after diagnosis, which for them was about three years into their infection. The last holdout aside from me went on the meds last spring. I still don't need the meds.

I also happen to think that many people are pushed into taking the drugs before they really need them. The doc sees one CD4 result in the 300s and the patient is whipped onto drugs faster than you can say sustiva. They're not given an opportunity to see if the numbers come back up on their own. I've seen it happen time and time again right here in these forums and I can't help but wonder how long some of these people might have avoided the drugs and side-effects if they had been allowed to establish a trend first.

And by the way, I'm not anti-meds. I'm only against taking them before they're truly needed.

You do have time to weigh up the pros and cons of either action. Don't let a doctor push you into anything before you're ready.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: Getting Meds with crappy insurance.....
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2006, 05:28:26 PM »
Dxx and Ann,

"I'm not so sure I agree with Moffie's assertion that the virus is more aggressive (astute in mutations) now days"

Gee Ann, you got me there, and yes, personally I agree with you as I feel the jury is still out.  That being said, I just returned from a disertation by my MD and Nurse where they are really getting behind this science, and I thought it was a bit far out, but many things are now pointing to this very interesting turn of events with HIV.  I agree with you, and I am still not sure that this is the case at all.  They did say however, that they are having a difficult time with HAART with some of the new infectees as the meds are not particularly effective in some of the new clients.  This news is not particularly a welcome sight here in this forum I would imagine.

Anyway, that is where my statement came from, so Dxx, take it for what it is, only the repition from two very respected HIV people, and I am with Ann, I still think the jury is out on this one.

IN Love and Support.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline racingmind

  • Member
  • Posts: 236
Re: Getting Meds with crappy insurance.....
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2006, 08:16:50 PM »
Thanks again for the replies!

Moffie and Ann,

What do you think about genotyping with regard to drug resistance prediction?  Do you think that it works?  I had a test done that predicted that I would not have resistance to any of the antiretrovirals.  I wonder how accurate these test are when one eventually starts taking meds.

Also, I finally talked to my doctor and he told me that he not in the habit of putting people on meds unnecessarily.  He seems to be an advocate of waiting til it's time.  He ordered the second test and wants to see if there is any change.  Is one month enough to see a trend? 

I feel like shit and if it's only going to be a matter of months before the meds enter my life, I almost would rather start taking them sooner and hope for minimal side effects so that I can start to feel better.  It's almost as if I can feel the virus going to work inside of me.  I want it to slow down.   I also want to do the right thing.

I guess I can't make an informed decision until more numbers come in.  My doc said that one month in between test should be able to tell us something.

I also pointed him towards the article on poz.com about VL not being the end all be all predictor of HIV progression.  Interesting reading if you haven't had a look.

Thanks so much again for your input and kind words.

Dxx
Tested Negative: 5/06
Tested Positive: 9/06 
9/06: CD4: 442 (28%) VL: +100,000
10/06: CD4: 323 (25%) VL: 243,440
11/06: CD4: 405 (28%) VL: 124,324
12/06: CD4: 450 (29%) VL: 114,600
1/07: CD4: 440 (27%) VL: 75,286
3/07: CD4: 459 (30%) VL: 44,860
5/07: CD4: 353 (24%) VL: 50,852
7/07: CD4: 437 (29%) VL: 39,475
9/07: CD4: 237 (32%) VL: 372,774
10/07: CD4: 324 (27%) VL: 115,454 
Started Atripla: 10/07
11/07: CD4: 524 (?%) VL: Undetectable!
2/08: CD4: 653 (35%) VL: undetectable
5/08: CD4: 822 (40%) VL: undetectable
8/08: CD4: 626 (35%) VL: undetectable
12/08: CD4: 619 (36%) VL: undetectable
3/09: CD4: 802 (38%) VL: undetectable
7/09: CD4: 1027 (43%) VL: not tested
10/09: CD4: 1045 (43%) VL: undetectable

Offline Eldon

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,664
Re: Getting Meds with crappy insurance.....
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2006, 08:26:55 PM »

BTW, a simple and affordable multi-vitamin could also elongate your time off meds.


Hello Dxx, it is Eldon.

I DO agree with Jason & Moffie that you should start taking a multi-vitamin (Men's One-A-Day) as a routine daily supplement, change your diet, get some excercise, drink plenty of fluids, and make sure you get your proper rest. We are all in this together.


Make the BEST of each Day!

Offline motherinneed

  • Member
  • Posts: 76
Re: Getting Meds with crappy insurance.....
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2006, 09:08:14 PM »
Please someone continue with the subject of obtaining applications from drug companies. My son is feeling overwhelmed with having insurance that will not cover his medication costs. I am trying to help him find options and would like to know more about what is going on with this comment about "applications" to drug companies. Does this help with the cost of medications?

Offline aztecan

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,382
  • 29 years positive, 56 years a pain in the butt
Re: Getting Meds with crappy insurance.....
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2006, 10:30:36 PM »
Hey Motherinneed,
Not to hijack Race's thread, but there is an organization called Medbank that can help people apply for assistance offered by drug companies.

Usually, this can only be accessed by someone who is authorized by the organization. If your son has a case manager, he/she may be able to access Medbank.

If you are in the states, ADAP may be an option, depending on your son's income and ADAP's viability in your state.

Hope this helps.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,273
Re: Getting Meds with crappy insurance.....
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2006, 11:00:10 PM »
racingmind, does your insurance have a catastrophic clause in it? If it does see if the cap is higher. I hope everything works out for you. Get yourself a case manager from your ASO. They are excellent in finding you help with medicines, doctor visits, travel expenses and so forth.

Offline poobear

  • Member
  • Posts: 112
Re: Getting Meds with crappy insurance.....
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2006, 11:34:00 PM »
Hi Racingmind,
   Looks like you got some good advice.  I live in NJ and am utilizing ADAP.  I also am paying COBRA from my insurance and there is a program here in New Jersey that helps me  pay COBRA, It is called H.I.C.P.  which means Health Insurance Contuation Program.  They pay my monthly COBRA payment.  Once you get to talk to a case worker they may know of some other programs.  Good Luck. Rachel

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Getting Meds with crappy insurance.....
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2006, 08:58:19 AM »
Hi Race,

While two results will tell you more than one, you really need three or more see a trend. You might also want to explore other ways of getting your health back together such as lifestyle changes (ie rest and eating habits and how you cope with stress) and give them a chance to work.

Stress itself can cause many uncomfortable, general symptoms and really does a number on your immune system, so dealing with stress in a proactive way could do a lot to improve how you're feeling. There are many things you could try, such as counseling, yoga, meditation, aromatherapy massage - the list goes on.

Ask at your local ASOs if they provide any of these things. Some ASOs have peer counseling where you can talk about how you're feeling and get things off your chest in a safe environment. You might be amazed at how much the simple act of talking with someone who understands can make you feel physically better. Your doctor may not have talked about these things with you because many doctors forget about how the emotional aspects of hiv impact on how we feel physically. There is a very strong link between how we feel emotionally and how we feel physically.

The resistance tests do work, btw, and it's excellent news that you show no resistance to the meds. If you aren't resistant now, you won't be when you decide to start meds. However, you can become resistant once you start taking them. This can happen if you miss doses or habitually take them late. It can also happen through no fault of your own, over time. This is one of the reasons why it is important to carefully weigh up the pros and cons of starting the meds so early in your infection.

Please do all you can to improve your health without the meds and make sure you get some support for the emotional side of you. As I mentioned before, your emotional state is intimately linked with your physical state and excess stress will hinder your immune system.

Hugs,
Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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