Anger in this forum

[SurferJosh]

I wanted to start a new thread to discuss the hostility in this forum. It's not fair to the original posters to have their threads highjacked, so let's move the discussion here...

Before joining and posting here, I read and familiarized myself with the forum rules. I restricted myself to this board which I understood to be for partners/family/friends of someone with HIV. The forum guidelines claim that free speech and different opinions are welcome. But it seems like there's some unspoken rules.

[denb45]

WTF are you talking about the only unspoken rules seems to be the ones you created for yourself 


Hugs


DEN

[drewm]

Josh, the waters here can seem shark-infested at times. There are a lot of reasons for this. Personalities. Opinions. Life-experience. Understanding etc etc. The best advice I can offer is to listen. Listen to those of us carrying this virus and keep that in your mind. Please. I am just over 2 years into this disease, so still an infant when it comes to understanding all of the particulars that go along with it.

The # of years being POZ, or not being POZ for that matter are important. I no longer remember what it was like to be neg. I don't think anymore like someone who is neg. That being said, it's hard for me to relate to that way of thinking. I am simply not there anymore. I find that listening to the FACTS and different OPINIONS regarding this disease and it's effects, mental, physical and so on help with my understanding.

My feelings, emotions and opinions regarding teh AIDS are very real and very much a focus in my life but aside from the FACTS, my opinions are just that...opinions...from someone new to the rodeo. I guess what I am trying to say is that there is a lot of anger on here from time to time, there is also a lot of compassion, learning and understanding. Try to listen and think outside the box. I can tell you the perspective from having this disease is totally different that when I was ignorant* of it.

*not using this as a slam but rather a state of being in regards to myself.

[Buckmark]

I wanted to start a new thread to discuss the hostility in this forum. It's not fair to the original posters to have their threads highjacked, so let's move the discussion here...

Before joining and posting here, I read and familiarized myself with the forum rules. I restricted myself to this board which I understood to be for partners/family/friends of someone with HIV. The forum guidelines claim that free speech and different opinions are welcome. But it seems like there's some unspoken rules.

Perhaps you would care to speak about these unspoken rules you refer to?  Because, until you do, they remain... well... unspoken.

[jkinatl2]

You were offended that people were offended by your inflammatory posts, which are not only hostile to those with HIV but also advised courses of action that could lead to ruin, even physical harm?

How very dare you.

[mecch]

Specifically this, for example:

If he is endangering others with drug use or exposing them to HIV, you can also take steps to notify them, if you feel that's needed.

You dont know much about people with HIV but are posting things based on your fears and stereotypes. Plus, the sentence is illogical.   Endangering others with drug use?  What's that supposed to mean...   

And the OP in that thread said NOTHING whatsoever about his/her having any thoughts about the friend "exposing" others to HIV.  What is that supposed to mean? 
You see, you come in here, with some baggage, and regrettably you put your foot in your mouth and let drop an very old, tiresome (for us), untrue, negative, hateful stereotype that HIV+ people are AIDS SPREADERS, in so many words.  See how that might offend some people?   Thats the inference we might fear you could be making.


Cherry on the gateau (or rather straw that breaks the camels back) you blather about notifying people to beware of the AIDS MONSTER, in so many words. (Again, its something I fear you believe kind of believe. Its what a lot of other people believe, and leads to HIV criminalisation, and so on ans so on.)

Now, can't you see these sorts of utterances wouldn't help the OP nor her friend?  Maybe just confuse!

Warrant a little bitch slap, you think?  Wise up!  Choose your words better, don't be so casual with them, and learn something about people with HIV.   

[wolfter]

Perhaps in your young life, you haven't figured out that any group will have unwritten rules!!!!! 

For me, I feel like a lot of your "opinions" are cloaked in morality and that won't bode well with a group of people who have lived with this virus longer than you've been living. 

I have a brother whom I'm very close with and he had a difficult time at first but he chose to listen and learn.  He is now one of my greatest supporters and I'm certain that he'd read some of your comments with scorn.

Therefore, I hope you can listen and read a little more often than talking and typing your opinions.  There's a wealth of information here, but it's only useful if you're willing to look outside of your internal worldview.

Even I, as a middle aged gay man with this virus, have changed my mindset since joining this forum and learning more about the world than my own opinions. 

Wolfie

[0608]

 "The forum guidelines claim that free speech and different opinions are welcome."

Josh, I think that's exactly what's been at practice.  You expressed your opinions (which I've just read through) as you were perfectly entitled to.  And other people responded to your opinions with their opinions, just as they were equally entitled to do. 

Were some of those opinions strong and heated?  Sure.  But try to see it from another point of view.  We, as HIV-positive people, have to go through a whole lot that (I hate to sound condescending but this is irrevocably true) you simply will not be able to understand unless you yourself are in that position.  And when you casually (though probably not with intentional malice) imply that positives needed to be kept in check by others to not infect others, well, that's going to bring out strong reactions.

Imagine you went to the market today and an employee followed you all around the store, clearly thinking you were about to steal something.  How would you feel?  Now that comes from an unspoken accusation of just stealing.  Your comments, intentional or not, carried the unspoken accusation that we were not entitled to our rights to keep our status private because of the danger that we would be out in the world infecting innocent, unknowing people.

Maybe you're thinking, 'Oh, I wasn't talking about YOU (people on this forum).  I was talking about other positive people."  But there's no line there, Josh.  If your suggestion was carried out to the maxium degree, there would be no privacy rights for ANY positive person, and that includes those of all of us here.

That's why your comments provoked strong reactions.  If there IS any unspoken rule on this forum, maybe it's this:  Don't forget that we are people just like you, not some scary "they" who would do evil things that you would never do.

[Common_ground]

Hostility? I have come to realize in my rather short time here it can get hot on AM from time to time but the discussions are often in good manners (except I could do without some of the "belitteling").

How boring,dull and backwards it would be if consensus were to remain in a stalemate. The forum would be nothing without its members, whomever they are and whatever their opinions might be. I hope these very same members not stop question and debate because without that fire burning, that antithesis, we would end up a choir of ducks burping up the same old story over and over again.

Strength through diversity.

[zach]

here's an unspoken rule, imma holler it from the mountain top.

  DO NOT EVER DISCLOSE THE HIV STATUS OF SOMEONE ELSE AGAINST THEIR WISHES OR WITHOUT CONSENT

you advocate doing exactly that! you called a POV self-aggrandizing notions of privacy and consent?! i call your POV self righteous sanctimony.

you admitted in one of your posts you have some boundary issues, i suggest dealing with those before you spew disclosure advice. sorry your high class ass feels shame and embarrassment that "you" have more pressures because your brother is positive.

i'm sorry your brother is positive. i would love to welcome him to this forum. i have a feeling he needs support sorely missing from family. you need to get over yourself.

if you're brother disclosed, you'd feel better?! you've got to be fkn kidding. because this is after all, about josh, the negative brother.

[Rockin]

I can take a guess here and say that Josh is still angry at his brother's infection and he's probably particularly angry at the guy who gave it to him. So he's angry that there are a bunch of HIV+ people walking around infecting everyone, as if they are doing it on purpose.

My mother had pretty much the same reaction when she found out. She was angry at my ex-boyfriend (still not sure it was him, but 90% sure) and I said "Mom, maybe he didn't know or still doesn't know and I'm to blame as well".

Josh, I don't know the story of your brother but, bottom line is, he didn't wear a condom. Period. So this is all as much his fault as the other guy. It's pointless to harbor this anger at HIV+ and you may state that you are not angry but your posts say otherwise.

Unless the person has been raped, sex is always about 2 people (or more for that matter) making a choice and undergoing whatever risk that choice brings. Your brother made a choice. 

[SurferJosh]

I've been giving a lot of though whether I should continue to use this forum at all. This board is supposed to be for people who are dealing with friends or family with HIV, but it's clear that this is not a good place unless you're Poz or you're only interested in hearing a particular orthodox worldview of how to deal with family and friends with HIV.  This view glosses over a lot of the HIV related drug and behavioral problems I've been trying to understand.  Walking on eggshells around bitter people is not what I need right now.  I'm going to look for support offline in a different environment.

My only suggestion would be to split the Someone I Care About board into 2 separate groups: one were poz members can participate and one where only family and friends can post.

[karry]

Walking on eggshells around bitter people is not what I need right now.  I'm going to look for support offline in a different environment

I was diagnosed with HIV in 2007....I am grateful I have the support of my family who do not feel like everyone else with HIV should be ousted, and who also know that I am not BITTER because of my status. They dont walk on eggshells around me, because they know that when it comes to disclosing my HIV status, it is my right and I earned it the hard way.

I feel sorry for your brother...he is going to need protection from you, because you still dont get the point here: ITS NOT ABOUT YOU, JOSH! Your brother has to be walking on eggshells around you because you will harm his health with your attitude.

I wish you luck on the other forums where you think people will support your views....but I am sure you wont find people tolerant of such views if they reason properly.
Karry

[wolfter]

Joshie, here is the issue from my viewpoint; you're not here for support or knowledge but rather to espouse your views.  Kinda like saying you'll gladly accept our support as long as we agree with you.

Good luck with the hunt for the type of support you're looking for.  You've not been willing to at least consider what we're saying but rather, you're upset that we're doing so.

Wolfie, you probably would have had a knock down, drag out fight with my brother if he betrayed my trust and disclosed my status before I was mentally ready for it.

[Miss Philicia]

Walking on eggshells around bitter people is not what I need right now. 

nuf said...

[Jeff G]

I formed an opinion early on that Josh isn't suited to give or receive support in this forum or offer any to his brother . His advice and views about HIV is always self self centered and downright insulting to people living with it . Many of the members here gave him the benefit of doubt and tried to help him understand other points of view to no avail so if he chooses to leave then good riddance . 

[thunter34]

I've been giving a lot of though whether I should continue to use this forum at all. This board is supposed to be for people who are dealing with friends or family with HIV, but it's clear that this is not a good place unless you're Poz or you're only interested in hearing a particular orthodox worldview of how to deal with family and friends with HIV.  This view glosses over a lot of the HIV related drug and behavioral problems I've been trying to understand.  Walking on eggshells around bitter people is not what I need right now.  I'm going to look for support offline in a different environment.

My only suggestion would be to split the Someone I Care About board into 2 separate groups: one were poz members can participate and one where only family and friends can post.

Ah, yes...one last little dig at the "bitter people" before you go, eh?  How utterly insulting - and yet so very expected.  People like you always resort to petty insults when confronted with the truth that, in reality, they don't really want the honest and productive support that will ultimately be most beneficial to all involved...they want coddlers and sycophants who will serve them appetizing and easy to swallow platitudes which will reinforce the beliefs they walked in the door with. 

That is just the case here.

Far from bitter, I'm about as peaceable and mellow as folks generally come - much nicer and accomodating than I probably should be at most times, I'd imagine.  And I've not had any interaction with you at all on these boards, but I've been quietly following your story from the day of your arrival.  I've followed all of your posts and all of the responses to them.  You have been given nothing but outstanding support here of the highest calibur that sincerely doubt will be matched in content anywhere, be it virtually or in person. 

People took the time to hear you out, and then offered sincere, well reasoned and sometimes borderline poetic responses.  They were usually sympathetic to your point of view, though it couldn't help but be noticed that the entire body of your posts here had virtually nothing to do with the one you supposedly "care about", but about you and how embarassing it was for you and how put upon you felt.  You're entitled to those feelings, but only to a point.  There comes a time when the correct direction of support moves from consolation to "snap out of it", and when you cavalierly advocate actions that could destroy people's lives - as you have done - then you deserve to be called out on it.

We aren't the bitter ones.  You are.  You're bitter about the embarassing AIDS-iness of your brother, and how it doesn't allow you to continue to prop up you and your family's notions of being "better than that".  You're bitter about being confronted with truth that requires real work on your part.  You're bitter about being called on the carpet for reckless statements on your part.  You're bitter that we actually did what you asked us to do by really supporting you rather than just consoling you as you whined and made the serious, personal and potentially life-threatening issues your brother is facing all about you.  Bitter, bitter, bitter...so very bitter.

So happy trails to you as you set off for greener pastures.  It shouldn't be that hard to find a spot for what you're seeking.  There are plenty of places out there where people will just nod their heads to whatever you're saying, and that's all you're really interested in anyway.

The one I'll be worrying for is your brother.

Adios.   

[Rockin]

I've been giving a lot of though whether I should continue to use this forum at all. This board is supposed to be for people who are dealing with friends or family with HIV, but it's clear that this is not a good place unless you're Poz or you're only interested in hearing a particular orthodox worldview of how to deal with family and friends with HIV.  This view glosses over a lot of the HIV related drug and behavioral problems I've been trying to understand.  Walking on eggshells around bitter people is not what I need right now.  I'm going to look for support offline in a different environment.

My only suggestion would be to split the Someone I Care About board into 2 separate groups: one were poz members can participate and one where only family and friends can post.

If you read other threads on this forum from friends and relatives of HIV+, you will see that everyone is polite and educated and compassionate. No bitterness.

You are the bitter one. You are making all of this about you. Instead of saying something like "I love my brother and I will be there for him no matter what. Everyone makes mistakes and I am not in any position to judge him." you do the exact opposite and judge your brother and everyone here. You truly think you are above all this and that we are all criminals spreading this virus around.

I'm afraid you might be more in need of counseling than your brother Josh.

[drewm]

My only suggestion would be to split the Someone I Care About board into 2 separate groups: one were poz members can participate and one where only family and friends can post.

You don't have a CLUE what it is like to have this virus. NOT A CLUE! You come on here rambling about bitterness when you are the most BITTER thing to have landed here in quite sometime (and that is saying a lot.) SHUT YOUR MOUTH and OPEN YOUR EARS and you might learn something.

[Matty the Damned]

You don't have a CLUE what it is like to have this virus. NOT A CLUE! You come on here rambling about bitterness when you are the most BITTER thing to have landed here in quite sometime (and that is saying a lot.) SHUT YOUR MOUTH and OPEN YOUR EARS and you might learn something.

Droodles,

I guess you showed him!

Which do you think worked better? The angry bold text or THE SHOUTY CAPITALS?

MtD

[drewm]

Droodles,

I guess you showed him!

Which do you think worked better? The angry bold text or THE SHOUTY CAPITALS?

MtD

Coupled with my hot a$$ avatar, kind of hard to tell LOL! 

[Matty the Damned]

Coupled with my hot a$$ avatar, kind of hard to tell LOL! 

Speaking of hard to tell, that cheap and nasty biohazard tatt just above your cum latrine has made this thread into a 4 star Leatherman Carolina clusterfuck.

Don't you think using red ink would raise the tone just a bit?

MtD

[drewm]

Speaking of hard to tell, that cheap and nasty biohazard tatt just above your cum latrine has made this thread into a 4 star Leatherman clusterfuck.

Don't you think using red ink would raise the tone just a bit?

MtD

Now that you mention it...yes 

[Matty the Damned]

Now that you mention it...yes 

Mentioned be damned.

It's nice to see you back in a place where they have electricity!

MtD

[Blue75]

Josh,  I came to this forum when my husband was diagnosed with HIV. Did you get that?   MY HUSBAND!  Imagine what went when on in my head.  These people here helped ground my emotional sanity when I thought I was going to break.

They helped me to understand what my husband is going through and facing. They are genuinely concerned about both of us. I appreciate the time these strangers took to be there for me with advice, input, knowledge, constructive criticism, care,etc.

I won't even get into the matter of how he was informed nor how he contracted it because it really just doesn't f**n matter anymore.  Get over yourself dude!

It's unfortunate about your brother and I'm very sorry but he's an adult and here's the kicker that you really need to get a grip on....so are the rest of the people he comes into contact with.  It's up to them to be look after themselves when in risky situations.

The only struggle I have is not being able to discuss his status with his kids.  He doesn't want them knowing and I'm not saying a thing.  Since you'll probably suggest they have a right to know, I'll beat you to it....NO, they don't.