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Author Topic: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST  (Read 2854 times)

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Offline alexjones

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THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« on: August 08, 2012, 11:37:32 PM »
I do not identify as a denialist. I'm here, I'm taking care of myself and I take a pill everyday for my REAL condition.

This clip features a co-discoverer of HIV stating that the virus can be cleared by a good immune system.
......rrrrrriiight.

This statement wasn't taken out of context as evidenced by the real time q&a. So what gives? What in the hell could he possibly be getting at? If this was just some moron on the street, this video wouldnt be worth posting. However, this guy is a 2009 Nobel prize winner.

What does he really mean!?



edited by Ann to remove denialist links.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 04:28:00 AM by Ann »

Offline Jeff G

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2012, 11:48:16 PM »
This is not criticism but it is ... that link you provided seems pretty denialist to me .

Online GSOgymrat

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2012, 12:02:53 AM »
Big deal. He offers an opinion with no scientific evidence to back it up. Prove it.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 12:04:57 AM by GSOgymrat »

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2012, 12:05:48 AM »
Look at the career of Dr Peter Duesberg. Amazing work in cancer and other areas. Then descended into bat-shittery regarding HIV because of his obvious anti-gay bias.

 
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2012, 12:25:12 AM »
Oh please.  This film that clip is from is like the gospel for aids dissidents.  If this thread wasn't meant to stir up controversy, the OP wouldn't have made it a point to scream that the video he linked to wasn't propaganda  ::)



edited by Ann to removed denialist links.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 04:28:50 AM by Ann »
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

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Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

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Still UD after all these years

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2012, 12:40:35 AM »
Oh please.  This film that clip is from is like the gospel for aids dissidents.  If this thread wasn't meant to stir up controversy, the OP wouldn't have made it a point to scream that the video he linked to wasn't propaganda  ::)



It's a shit ton of denialism immersed within a shit ton or denialist links.

Seriously?

Preface all you want, dude. that's some thin ice.


edited by Ann to removed denialist links.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 04:29:19 AM by Ann »
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2012, 12:53:36 AM »
It's a shit ton of denialism immersed within a shit ton or denialist links.

Seriously?

Preface all you want, dude. that's some thin ice.

Totally.  If given a choice, I would've taken broccoli and carrots any day over AZT.
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline Mrmojorisin

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2012, 01:05:07 AM »
I have read about this guy...He had a good theory back in the early days of AIDS. It was probably a reasonable hypothesis. Now he just ignores all the science that has since debunked his theory..I thing he even claims some sort of conspiracy against him.  He a primo nut case..
Started Meds On 5/1/2012 Norvair, Truvada, Prezista, and Bactrim

4/17/2012--CD4 83/ VL 353,000  7.0%
5/15/2012--CD4 218/ VL 4,970    14.1%
6/27/2012--CD4 146/ VL 420      6.1%
10/11/2012-CD4-223/ VL-62       9.5%
2/14/2013--CD4-215/ VL-119      13.6%
7/3/2013---CD4-256/ VL-UD       18.0%
10/18/2013 CD4-223/ VL-UD       22.2%
01/23/2014-CD4-381/VL-UD       25.3%--Dropped the Bactrim

"arrrrhhhhh ahhrrhhhhh aaaarrhhh"- Chewbacca

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2012, 01:58:25 AM »
Big deal. He offers an opinion with no scientific evidence to back it up. Prove it.

Precisely.

Luc Montagnier can assert that 'HIV can naturally be cleared by a healthy immune system' all he wants but in the abject absence of a single HIV infected human (since the dawn of the epidemic) corroborating his assertion, his 'opinion' carries not a shred of weight.

Interestingly, he was also embroiled in some controversy where his research studies were used as support for Homeopathy, for which he received harsh criticism from other scientists.

PS- I have a feeling her Annship is going to assign this entire thread to oblivion.  ;)

Edited to correct typos and insert PS
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 02:11:37 AM by spacebarsux »
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline alexjones

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2012, 03:43:42 AM »
Precisely.

Luc Montagnier can assert that 'HIV can naturally be cleared by a healthy immune system' all he wants but in the abject absence of a single HIV infected human (since the dawn of the epidemic) corroborating his assertion, his 'opinion' carries not a shred of weight.

Interestingly, he was also embroiled in some controversy where his research studies were used as support for Homeopathy, for which he received harsh criticism from other scie
ntists.

PS- I have a feeling her Annship is going to assign this entire thread to oblivion.  ;)


Edited to correct typos and insert PS


That's the kind of response I was looking for. I should have clarified that while my link was to denialist hogwash, I was not a supporter of the idea. It just baffles me that a Nobel prize winner who would carry "clout" in the scientific cokmunity would make such a claim.

Offline Ann

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2012, 04:34:15 AM »

That's the kind of response I was looking for. I should have clarified that while my link was to denialist hogwash, I was not a supporter of the idea. It just baffles me that a Nobel prize winner who would carry "clout" in the scientific cokmunity would make such a claim.

Alex, linking to denialist propaganda is expressly forbidden here and is part of the Terms of Membership you agreed to when creating your account.

Solo - you should know better than to link to that horrid film.

I hope neither of you ever link to denialist sites again - because you just may be banned from this site.

If anyone wants to know why the denialists are such dangerous people - so dangerous that we do not allow their propaganda on this site in any way, shape or form - go have a read at http://www.aidstruth.org/

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2012, 04:48:50 AM »
http://www.vulgart.be/?tag=surrealisme

Ceci n'est pas une pipe!

But really, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Rose is a rose is a rose is a rose. 
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 04:52:21 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline LM

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2012, 11:03:25 AM »
I believe he meant that, having contact with HIV, the body can fend off the virus, if the immune system is working well, avoiding infection. And I think he was led to make a mistake in the video. Regardless, I read somewhere that he regretted giving this interview.

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2012, 05:26:57 AM »
I believe he meant that, having contact with HIV, the body can fend off the virus, if the immune system is working well, avoiding infection. And I think he was led to make a mistake in the video. Regardless, I read somewhere that he regretted giving this interview.

I was also initially inclined to believe this was the true import of his words, but I don't think it really is, for it was already well-known that there are certain individuals, mostly of North European descent, who carry a mutated CCR5 Delta 32 gene that "inhibits the CCR5 cellular receptor used to gain access to the immune system by HIV and other diseases."

http://digitaljournal.com/article/307120#ixzz238KTAsFx

Also, there  is a small group of individuals classified as Highly Exposed Persistently Seronegative. This has been observed only in a group of uninfected HIV-negative sexworkers in Kenya and in Gambia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV_disease_progression_rates

It certainly didn't seem to me like he was referring to either of these groups but to people actually infected with HIV, i.e. HIV+ people.
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline Rockin

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2012, 11:21:54 AM »
My opinion on this is the same I have about people who claim they have seen ghosts or UFO's...if it was really true everyone would know about it already. So I'll believe only when I see actual proof.

Why do some people still cling on to every or any denialist out there? Take your damn meds already!

Offline LM

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2012, 01:28:54 PM »
I was also initially inclined to believe this was the true import of his words, but I don't think it really is, for it was already well-known that there are certain individuals, mostly of North European descent, who carry a mutated CCR5 Delta 32 gene that "inhibits the CCR5 cellular receptor used to gain access to the immune system by HIV and other diseases."

http://digitaljournal.com/article/307120#ixzz238KTAsFx

Also, there  is a small group of individuals classified as Highly Exposed Persistently Seronegative. This has been observed only in a group of uninfected HIV-negative sexworkers in Kenya and in Gambia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV_disease_progression_rates

It certainly didn't seem to me like he was referring to either of these groups but to people actually infected with HIV, i.e. HIV+ people.

No, I'm not talking about these. We know that it's difficult to transmit HIV, even with a high viral load. For example, if I have unprotected sex with someone, it's unlikely that person will get infected. However, he/she will get in contact with the virus. So yeah, maybe a person with a immune system working very well will avoid the infection, so possibly that's what he meant. But who knows.

Offline mecch

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2012, 04:50:54 PM »
So yeah, maybe a person with a immune system working very well will avoid the infection, so possibly that's what he meant. But who knows.

Who knows and who cares about thinking that is entirely conjecture. 

I do think that bodies have defenses that prevent HIV contact from turning into infection.  I read something about these mechanisms when I first seroconverted. 

But there is no guarantee, right, and we can't anticipate when its functioning and not, anyhow. 

I've "warded off" virus sometimes and other times I haven't.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline drewm

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2012, 05:21:05 PM »
DENIALISM IS DENIALISM REGARDLESS OF HOW IT IS PACKAGED


DENIALISM = DEATH
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Offline wolfter

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2012, 05:44:38 PM »
If anecdotal stories tell the entire truth, then I assure you all that a nice glass of Sutter Home White Zin is the true cure.  I don't buy the hogwash about this virus destroying the body.  Just keep those buggers inebriated and they can't cause any harm.   :o

It's only when you go off the wine that problems arise.  Nasty little fuckers when they also have a hangover.  :)

Wolfie
productivity breeds content

Offline LM

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2012, 08:34:57 PM »
Who knows and who cares about thinking that is entirely conjecture. 

I do think that bodies have defenses that prevent HIV contact from turning into infection.  I read something about these mechanisms when I first seroconverted. 

But there is no guarantee, right, and we can't anticipate when its functioning and not, anyhow. 

I've "warded off" virus sometimes and other times I haven't.

Yup, just a way of reasoning as to why a famous HIV researcher would say such a thing.

Offline Buckmark

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2012, 10:17:14 PM »
Geez, at this point, this sure seems to be a denialist post.

Oh, and the OP has adopted the moniker "alex jones", who is a well known conspiracy theorist here in the US.  Alex talks about many things that he believes are conspiracies, including a few thoughts on HIV.  In fact, Alex hails from right here in Austin, Texas.

 ::)

Enough, don't you think?

"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2012, 10:22:51 PM »
Geez, at this point, this sure seems to be a denialist post.

Oh, and the OP has adopted the moniker "alex jones", who is a well known conspiracy theorist here in the US.  Alex talks about many things that he believes are conspiracies, including a few thoughts on HIV.  In fact, Alex hails from right here in Austin, Texas.

 ::)

Enough, don't you think?



Good catch!

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Rockin

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Re: THIS IS NOT A DENIALIST POST
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2012, 02:40:55 AM »
Some people also cling to the idea that man never landed on the Moon...I wonder what they are saying now about the robot in Mars.

 


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