Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
Newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr Instagram
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
December 22, 2014, 08:47:08 PM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 650182
  • Total Topics: 49632
  • Online Today: 192
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: Poppers & CD4s  (Read 16293 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Strayboy74

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,054
  • tastes like chicken
Re: Poppers & CD4s
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2007, 11:05:55 PM »
Well... that counts for something :)

OH NO!!!  THE BRIDE OF POPPERS AND HIV REVISITED!!!  NOOOOOOOO!

-Joseph

Offline RobT

  • Member
  • Posts: 319
Re: Poppers & CD4s
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2007, 11:38:58 PM »
All-
I wud consider in the use of Poppers, that moderation is key. That has been the ONLY recreational drug that I have done for quite a time and my 1st popper use since has been last weekend, so I doubt that it had an effect. I wud still consider the entire theory of "mederation is key" until some documented proof of the negative effect of popper use and HIV.

Rob


Current meds: Atripla
VL: undetectable
CD4: 630

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,520
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Poppers & CD4s
« Reply #52 on: September 14, 2007, 12:11:31 AM »
Plus they evaporate almost immediately... certainly when you spill them all over the mattress.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline newt

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,887
  • the one and original newt
Re: Poppers & CD4s
« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2007, 06:31:14 AM »
Quote
Therefore the question of whether the relation between amyl nitrites and HHV-8 is biological or behavioral remains unanswered

Key sentence this- so we know nothing. 

All recreational drugs are bad for the immune system with sustained, high dose use. I feel the thing about poppers is often a guilt thing about getting the sex you want/a way to show yo are now being healthy in a Lutheran Church kinda way.  I know loads of straight people and lesbians who use poppers and they don't get KS.  But they's not HIV-positive. The KS in gay men in 1he 1980s and 90s was, er, perhaps related to HIV and immune suppression, and poppers largely incidental....Plus many people who get/got KS, gay or just Southern European, never used poppers. (just saying)
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,520
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Poppers & CD4s
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2007, 09:00:22 AM »
Key sentence this- so we know nothing. 

I feel the thing about poppers is often a guilt thing about getting the sex you want/a way to show yo are now being healthy in a Lutheran Church kinda way. 

I love you -- so spot on dear
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline woodshere

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,477
  • ain't no shame in my game
Re: Poppers & CD4s
« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2007, 09:04:13 AM »
Key sentence this- so we know nothing. 

 I feel the thing about poppers is often a guilt thing about getting the sex you want/a way to show yo are now being healthy in a Lutheran Church kinda way.  I



No guilt here, I am a proud popper pig!!!
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Smoothstone

  • Member
  • Posts: 96
Re: Poppers & CD4s
« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2007, 12:51:41 PM »
main point:  poppers are immunosuppressive.....just 3 inhalations immediately suppressed natural killer cell function 30% and it took 4 days for immune system to return to baseline.

the good news:  the immune system recovers, not permanently damaged

the bad news: the immunosuppression increases susceptibility to infections...HIV, HHV-8(the virus necessary for development of KS), or other infections  that might leave you vulnerable even after the immune system returns to baseline....but you are now infected. Someday we may be able to delete the HIV and HHV-8 infections...but in the meantime...there are treatments down the road if needed

Elizabeth Dax et al. "Amyl nitrite alters human in vitro immune function" in the journal Immunopharmacology and Immunotoxicity 1991; 13(4):557-587. PubMed 1685501.   

Elizabeth Dax et al. "Effects of nitrites on the immune system of humans." Health Hazards of Nitrite Inhalants: NIDA Research Monograph 83 1988 March; 75-80. PubMed 2902516.





Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,520
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Poppers & CD4s
« Reply #57 on: September 14, 2007, 12:59:13 PM »
Thanks for those horribly relevant 1991 and 1988 sources, Smoothstone.  Haven't you been warned about depending on such things to support your flimsy case previously by the moderators?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline newt

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,887
  • the one and original newt
Re: Poppers & CD4s
« Reply #58 on: September 14, 2007, 01:41:47 PM »
The Dax study abstract:

Amyl nitrite alters human in vitro immune function.

Effects on the human immune system of volatile nitrite inhalation were studied in 18 male volunteers. While nitrite inhalation decreased the absolute number of CD3+ T lymphocytes during the period of inhalation, cell numbers returned to pre-treatment levels within one week after cessation of the drug. Nitrite inhalation did not alter the percentage of CD3+, CD4+, CD8+ or CD19+ lymphocytes. [my emphasis, in case people miss this] Natural killer (NK) cell activity against K562 target cells was depressed by nitrite administration but returned to pre-inhalation or greater levels after nitrite discontinuation. Cell proliferation following cell activation by PHA, ConA and PWM was unaffected by amyl nitrite inhalation. We conclude that in humans inhalation of volatile nitrites causes cycles of modest immunosuppression, particularly in NK activity, followed by gradual recovery when the drug is not inhaled for several days.

..there you go a lab study which shows you can count less CD3+ cells in peripheral blood in 18 men who sniffed poppers.

The other one is a monograph, and neatly summarises many studies which show solvent inhalation has a moderate, short term immunosupressive effect the goes on to speculate how this might effect HIV replication. Indeed, theorise.  The same could be said of (1) any cold you have (2) touch of the sun (3) jetlag (4) too much cheese.

No-one has prosepctively examined whether popper use v non-use causes a significant decline in immune function because, well, it doesn't look like being an instant research high, or even a decent PhD.

- matt
« Last Edit: September 14, 2007, 01:47:38 PM by newt »
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.