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Author Topic: Alternative Medication For HIV  (Read 8641 times)

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Offline Ecuro

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Alternative Medication For HIV
« on: July 05, 2012, 07:52:53 PM »
Hi my name is Ecuro and I was recently diagnosed with HIV, but have decided against taking conventional medication. I would like to take this moment to invite anyone who has any knowledge of alternative medicine for HIV from a clinical or personal experience to respond to this blog. I would be very interested in knowing what kind of approach you have taken or are taking and what your experience has been. :)

Offline emeraldize

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2012, 08:09:29 PM »
What are your numbers?

Offline leatherman

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2012, 10:09:27 PM »
there are no medications besides HAART (Highly Active Antiretroviral Therapy; see this page http://www.aidsmeds.com/list.shtml for a list of medications) that control/suppress HIV. There are no alternative therapies according to actual scientific research.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline aztecan

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2012, 12:02:37 AM »
Hey Ecuro,

First, welcome to the forums. Glad you have joined in, not for your being a pozzie, but because you are now here with us.

Since you are recently diagnosed, I fear you may be jumping into decisions without sufficient research.

As a 27+ year survivor, I was around prior to the advent of the triple-drug therapy that is standard today.

During those early years, we tried just about everything you can think of: from Chinese herbal medicine, Ayurveda medicine, cleansings, nutritional supplements, electrostimulation, and others. One friend of mine had his blood taken out, much as they do in dialysis, had it heated and then replaced. It nearly killed him outright.

I wish I could say there were alternatives to the standard ARV therapy, but as Leatherman pointed out, there just isn't.

I don't know what your current labs show, but you certainly could do well using some alternative therapies for a time, just because your body has not yet become so weakened it starts to fail.

But, short of your being a long-term nonprogressor, which is a rarity, your body will begin to fail you as your immune system takes a continual beating from the virus.

I have watched many die from AIDS-related complications. It is not something I would recommend.

If you don't mind my asking, why have you decided to eschew meds, or at least, the "usual suspects," so to speak?

HUGS,

Mark
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 01:05:47 AM by aztecan »
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline Ecuro

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2012, 01:21:35 AM »
Hi Mark,

I have given my decision much thought and have concluded that at this point I will not be looking for conventional methods of treatment considering that the medication will not help in curing the condition, but rather will only slow it down. Seeing as this is the outcome, I feel that there may be other methods that will do the same without causing many of the devastating side effects. In the end I have come to terms with my condition and realize that either way my demise will come.

Ecuro

Offline Ecuro

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2012, 01:29:09 AM »
Hi emeraldize,

have you tried any alternative therapies? Are they dependent on your viral load and CD4 count? I can not tell you my numbers as I have not had my viral load or CD4 count test.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2012, 01:35:57 AM »
What devastating side effects are you worrying about ? The meds I'm on have a few side effects  , none of which are devastating .

I'm not picking at you so do not take it that way but I think perhaps you are not making a decision based on facts but rather on emotions . I also want to welcome you to the forum , its my hope you may feel differently about taking meds when and if you need them once you have interacted with some of us that have seen pretty dire days due to HIV and now are living pretty good lives because of all the new HIV meds at our disposal . 

Can you please share some more about why you are making the decision not to seek treatment ? 
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 01:37:36 AM by jg1962 »

Offline sam66

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2012, 01:43:24 AM »
Hi
   I would say yes, every thing is dependent on your no's. If your no's ( cd4, % , ) are low enough and the vl is high then you should be on conventional treatment.

     If the numbers are high then you could try vitamines high nutritional diet etc ,
     but always keep an eye on your no's
december 2007 diagnosed +ve ,

Offline leatherman

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2012, 03:01:20 AM »
I have given my decision much thought and have concluded that at this point I will not be looking for conventional methods of treatment considering that the medication will not help in curing the condition, but rather will only slow it down. Seeing as this is the outcome, I feel that there may be other methods that will do the same without causing many of the devastating side effects. In the end I have come to terms with my condition and realize that either way my demise will come.

Ecuro
I have been on treatment for nearly 20 yrs, a treatment which brought me back from the brink of an AIDS death. I have no devastating side effects and am nearly healthier than I was when I was infected 27 yrs ago - besides the emotional toll of AIDS stealing away my friends and 2 partners that is. ;) Oh, and of course the fact that I'm now nearly 30 yrs older too. LOL At 50, I'm having some eyesight issues, but I still go biking and hiking, and recently kept up with the teenagers at the amusement park (although some of the more "spin-y" rides do tend to make me queasy these days LOL)

Time and experience has shown the truth of the matter to be that the outcome without HAART is clearly a nasty AIDS death. However, the outcome with HAART, especially the modern triple-therapy regimens from the 2000's and on, so far has been a long enjoyable life with many years yet to come according to the research that has been done.

Wanting to throw out HAART just because it isn't the perfect cure seems awfully short-sighted when no other alternatives or methods have ever been shown to do any good. I would heartily suggest that you have not researched this illness and the treatment in enough detail if you have chosen to think that HAART medication is not the correct approach.

If you actually read the scientific information from the package insert for any HAART medication, you will see that only a very small percentage of people have side effects, and many of those side effects are of limited duration and of only minor consequence. Certainly some people do have some major issues, but they make up a very small percent. With so many options of HAART medications available, people experiencing side effects can often be switched to other medications which do not cause side effects. It can be a bit hit-or-miss at first to get the right combination; but once it's found, the viral load reduced and the immune system recovers many people these days continue to work, live, and love as "normal".

Of course, until you know more about your viral load and cd4 count, there's not much anyone can suggest about when you should start medications. Perhaps if you expressed which drugs you have doubts about, we could tell you more specifics to explain why HAART is the only therapy (really, there are no alternatives) that has any impact against HIV and why you, when the time is right, should clearly take HAART medications so that you don't die from an AIDS death.

Since you are someone newly diagnosed, I would also highly suggest that you spend some time reading through the Lessons section here at aidsmeds http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/Introduction_4702.shtml so that you understand enough about what HIV does, how the medications stop those actions, when to start meds, and what the test results mean. ;)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Grasshopper

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2012, 03:10:30 AM »
Hi Mark,

I have given my decision much thought and have concluded that at this point I will not be looking for conventional methods of treatment considering that the medication will not help in curing the condition, but rather will only slow it down. Seeing as this is the outcome, I feel that there may be other methods that will do the same without causing many of the devastating side effects. In the end I have come to terms with my condition and realize that either way my demise will come.

Ecuro

You are right in that there is no cure as of yet, however :
Not only will conventional therapy "slow it down", in fact it will stop the viral replication dead in it's track. Up till today NO other methods have proven to be as effective as the current "conventional therapy".
With an effective suppressed viralload, your immunesystem will get a chance to recover, and you'll be as if to speak out of danger (provided you adhere to the medications as prescribed, and mind your health).

Disregarding the current conventional therapy is a BIG MASTAKE, and I guarantee you will pay dearly for it in the future.

Offline emeraldize

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2012, 06:52:15 AM »
Hi emeraldize,

have you tried any alternative therapies? Are they dependent on your viral load and CD4 count? I can not tell you my numbers as I have not had my viral load or CD4 count test.

Hi Ecuro,
 
I just wanted to get an understanding of the very basics: your current numbers. How long ago did you test positive? In what country do you reside ? 

Em

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2012, 09:32:14 AM »

 the devastating side effects.


What devastating side effects? This isn't 1992, it's 2012. Most of the meds in use today are very well tolerated with little or no side effects. You're living in a modern country with an excellent health care system. You're not going to be given old meds like ddl or Crixivan or even AZT. Wise up.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline wolfter

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2012, 10:21:44 AM »
I would like to take this moment to invite anyone who has any knowledge of alternative medicine for HIV from a clinical or personal experience to respond to this blog. I would be very interested in knowing what kind of approach you have taken or are taking and what your experience has been. :)

For those of us who survived the AZT years, HAART is the alternative!!!!!   
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline LoboDog

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2012, 10:23:03 AM »
In the end I have come to terms with my condition and realize that either way my demise will come.

Ecuro

Hi Ecuro,

Everyone's demise will come... dying is part of life. The best anyone can hope for (poz or neg) is to stave off dying for as long as possible.

Having lived through the 90's and having seen people die left and right, I hope that you change your mind. Death by AIDS is generally not a fun way to go. Personally I would prefer to be hit by a bus, or a bolt of lightning, or something really quick. I'm still haunted by some memories of seeing walking skeletons, people that went blind, and way too many hospital visits. 

Of course you can make your own decisions...

Offline Mrmojorisin

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2012, 10:39:59 AM »
The only thing I can add id be very, very careful if you decide on alternative therapy. There are many folks out there selling snake oil, many who claim to cure HIV. All are bullshit. They , quite simply, are taking advantage of folks who are emotionally stressed. Some have died trying to avoid "conventional" medicine.     

 Proper nutrition is always a good idea poz or not. Supplimental vitamines, taken properly, will not hurt. But they will not stop the virus progress in your body.

 Please research everything before you take action.
Started Meds On 5/1/2012 Norvair, Truvada, Prezista, and Bactrim

4/17/2012--CD4 83/ VL 353,000  7.0%
5/15/2012--CD4 218/ VL 4,970    14.1%
6/27/2012--CD4 146/ VL 420      6.1%
10/11/2012-CD4-223/ VL-62       9.5%
2/14/2013--CD4-215/ VL-119      13.6%
7/3/2013---CD4-256/ VL-UD       18.0%
10/18/2013 CD4-223/ VL-UD       22.2%
01/23/2014-CD4-381/VL-UD       25.3%--Dropped the Bactrim

"arrrrhhhhh ahhrrhhhhh aaaarrhhh"- Chewbacca

Offline Buckmark

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2012, 11:06:21 AM »
I have given my decision much thought and have concluded that at this point I will not be looking for conventional methods of treatment considering that the medication will not help in curing the condition, but rather will only slow it down. Seeing as this is the outcome, I feel that there may be other methods that will do the same without causing many of the devastating side effects. In the end I have come to terms with my condition and realize that either way my demise will come.

Devastating side effects?  Please tell us which side-effects you are concerned about.  As others have testified here, the majority of today's medications for HIV are well-tolerated with little or no side-effects.

Here are the facts:

  • There is no "cure" for HIV which will eliminate the virus from your body.
  • "Conventional" medications prescribed by your physician help your body control the HIV virus.
  • No "alternative medications" or "nutritional supplements" will do either of these things for you.
  • If you don't take the prescription medications designed to control HIV, you will die of AIDS, or more specifically, one of the horrible opportunistic infections you get when you have AIDS
  • Everyone's "demise" will come at some point, so skipping medications because of your "impending demise" is just making excuses.

It's that simple, and you can make your own decision. 

Lastly, I would urge you to consider why you so strongly wish to avoid a treatment that is known and proven to work.  What makes you think you are so different and so special from everyone else who has HIV, and the 30 million or so people who have died of AIDS?

Henry

Edited to add:

You are squandering an opportunity for treatment that 30 million people, and many of my friends, simply didn't have.  That is why you are pissing me off, and probably the others here too.  We only wish that many of our friends had the opportunity to take these "conventional" HIV medications.  And yet you dismiss what is known and proven as an effectivce treatment, and what could have saved so many lives -- INCLUDING YOUR OWN!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 11:12:14 AM by Buckmark »
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline buginme2

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2012, 11:09:23 AM »
1.  I think you're making a foolish decision.  With that being said lets talk about what "alternative" therapies you are going to try.

Selenium, Green Tea (with a high EGCG%), and Marijuana.

Those would be the three I would try.  At least there is some research on these.


Offline Buckmark

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2012, 01:23:42 PM »
1.  I think you're making a foolish decision.  With that being said lets talk about what "alternative" therapies you are going to try.

Selenium, Green Tea (with a high EGCG%), and Marijuana.

Those would be the three I would try.  At least there is some research on these.

And what benefit do you think you would gain by trying these?  I'm all for improving health and well-being.  But if you are saying these will help fight HIV, show us the scientific studies.
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline buginme2

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2012, 01:34:38 PM »
And what benefit do you think you would gain by trying these?  I'm all for improving health and well-being.  But if you are saying these will help fight HIV, show us the scientific studies.

Like I said I think he would be foolish to forgo ARV and go with "alternative" means of treating HIV.  However the three that I listed have been studied in the treatment of HIV.  Lets take Green Tea for example.  Here is a google/scholar result of studies for green tea. 

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=Egcg+and+hiv+&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C48&as_sdtp=

I am curious what the OP plans on using for his treatment.  My options are at least better than magic water and some other things ive seen people post.

Offline karry

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2012, 01:43:23 PM »
I am not on treatment and in its been more than 5 years since diagnosis.

However, when the time for treatment comes, I have made up my mind to accept it with wide open arms, because I know how lucky I am to be living with HIV now, and not 25 years ago. I have read the posts of many long term survivors, and I think I have to be grateful for the options and hopes I have today. I am not going to play with the opportunity I have.

I wish you luck and hope you will ultimately make the right decision.
K.
Take it a day at a time....and be positive about it too!

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2012, 02:15:46 PM »
Welcome back, Etay!

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Joe K

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2012, 02:20:07 PM »
Welcome back, Etay!

Ecuro,

I will never understand anyone, who comes to this forum looking for information and experience and then, once receiving said, totally ignores all of it.  You haven't even had your first labs done, yet you know that conventional therapy is not for you.  How do you know that and on what do you base your decision?

Folks have already provided the truth about HIV and treatment options, as we know them to be supported by the science and experience.  If you wish to delude yourself, that somehow you will be that "one" person, who can treat their infection without using what works, who are we to argue?

I prefer spending my time helping folks who really do want to live.

Joe

Offline Raf

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2012, 02:29:23 PM »
Sorry man, but without the conventional therapy, I won't be writing this right now, aids would have finished me back in 2008 or 2009, so excuse me if I dismiss completely every other kind of "alternative" therapy.

I hope you don't have to suffer through aids after you initiate your "alternative" therapy, but I'm afraid that you'll do.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 02:37:22 PM by Raf »
Dx: 05/14/2008
Latest HIV Meds combo I've been taking:

Kaletra + Combivir (since 05/16/2008 - today)

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2012, 03:02:37 PM »
Before treatment:
1) GERD
2) Diverticulitis
3) Enlarged spleen
4) Bronchitis
5) Fatigue
6) Frequent colds, stomach problems
7) Declining CD4s and CD4 %

After treatment:
1) No GERD
2) No recurrences of diverticulitis
3) Spleen normal
4) No Bronchitis
5) Increased energy
6) No colds in 2+ years to speak of; no stomach problems (other than when I eat too much)
7) Highest CD4s (over 1,200) and CD4 % since infected
8) Work full-time, also do private consulting, pursuing my MBA, and helped to plan last year and this year's AMG (a gathering of those who know that treatment is effective; those who are grateful to know that today's treatments have minimal to no adverse side effects; those who may not be on treatment - but recognize that if the time comes that they need it they will be right there getting it; and those who saw the destruction and painful deaths of many of those they cared about due to either a lack of effective treatment at the time, lack of access to treatment, or refusal to follow scientifically-proven effective treatment)

To me the definition of "alternative medication for HIV" is - dying rather than living by taking HAART, when recommended by reputable medical professionals in consultation with their patient.

And BTW, HAART does not "slow down" the disease, but it actually stops it in its tracks and, in many cases, repairs some of the damage done.

I suggest you get to the root of why you really don't want to find out your levels (CD4s, Viral Load, etc) and why you don't want to take HAART, if needed. Otherwise, the adverse reaction you are posting about is not really related to the medications - The adverse reaction is your decision not to take the medications.

September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline Ecuro

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2012, 06:00:14 PM »
I thank you all for your input.


edited by Ann to remove reference and links to a denialist video.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 09:28:17 PM by Ann »

Offline anniebc

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2012, 06:15:28 PM »
Welcome back, Etay!

Ecuro

In case you don't understand what the about post means please let me explain.

Etay was a young man who came to the forum spouting the same thing you are doing now about not needing HAART, that alternative medicine will do him just fine, he ignored all the advise he was given, just like you are doing....he died within the year, such a waste, if he had listened he would still be with us today, but if this is what you want then that's your decision.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 06:16:59 PM by anniebc »
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2012, 07:32:01 PM »
I thank you all for your input. If you would like to view this documentary here is the link: (removed)

OK, two things.

First, your movie? It's denialist crap.



************

What you do to and with your body is absolutely your business. But this site dos not treat AIDS denialism with kid gloves. You keep promoting that shit and I will lead the torch-carrying mob to get rid of it.

Go down in flames if you want. You will not have the chance to take others here with you.

This forum is called "AIDSMEDS." There is no question mark nor asterisk at the end of the title.


edited by Ann to remove references to a denialist video.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 09:29:45 PM by Ann »
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline buginme2

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2012, 07:50:08 PM »
Why is it always all or nothing with the "Alternative Medicine" crowd?

If you want to try Alternative Medicine why cant you try it AND take conventional treatment?  Why must you forgo a proven medication for one that is unproven?

If you want to take Alternative Medicines fine!  Do some research, find out what works and what doesn't and compliment your conventional treatment with it.  No one can fault you for that. 


Offline forrest

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2012, 07:59:24 PM »
I watched that video actually... and what I don't understand... is how do you deny test after test of a Viral Load and CD count decline?  I mean... okay... so maybe you have a false positive... don't you follow up with VL and CD4?  If you have an undetectable VL, then yeah, the test was probably false positive?  But isn't it stupid to not also have VL and CD4, CD8, etc. test as well?  You can't deny that. I haven't looked into any denialism crap... don't have  desire... but how can multiple tests be wrong?!?!  How can all the numbers in my signature be wrong?  False positive? My ass!   :o
2011-03-26:  Tested Positive

Date           |VL        |CD4 |4%  |CD8 |8%  |C4:C8
2011-04-06 |48,653 |603 |32.0 |646 |35.0 |0.61
2011-05-23 |64,324 |577 |36.0 |576 |36.0 |1.00
2011-08-02 |18,319 |574 |36.3 |587 |37.2 |0.98
2011-12-06 |10,375 |480 |30.1 |616 |38.7 |0.78
2012-02-22 |  9,674 |570 |33.6 |655 |38.7 |0.87
2012-05-04 |  8,439 |559 |30.4 |706 |38.4 |0.79

Offline Joe K

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2012, 08:02:10 PM »
Why is it always all or nothing with the "Alternative Medicine" crowd?

Because most of them want others to share their views, that HIV is some mumbo jumbo disease that we don't know anything about.  It seems that every one of these folks, insist they know the truth about HIV and generally go on to prove that they don't by becoming ill and dying.

Just don't EVER POST LINK(S) TO DENIALIST CRAP ON THIS WEBSITE, or our Oracle of the Isle will ban you in a heartbeat.

Joe

Offline denb45

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2012, 08:12:55 PM »
BAM!!! so there we have it the  denialist crap rears it's ugly head again in this forum, I'm having feelling of Déjà vu all over my body.......PLEASE MAKE IT STOP...............UGH!  :-X
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline drewm

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2012, 08:28:57 PM »
There is no alternative medicine that has proven successful in the treatment of this virus.

Deny=DIE

Meds=LIFE

It's that simple.


It is your choice as to what you want to do with your own body but rest assured that HAART is the only...O-N-L-Y...way to control HIV/AIDS AND is the only treatment to actually reverse the numbers associated with this virus.

Diagnosed in  May of 2010 with teh AIDS.

PCP Pneumonia . CD4 8 . VL 500,000

ATRIPLA - VALTREX -  FLUOXETINE - FENOFIBRATE


Numbers consistent since 12/2010 - VL has remained undetectable and CD4 is anywhere from 275-325

Offline mecch

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2012, 08:29:39 PM »
If I recall correctly, ETAY didn't believe in "alternative therapies". ETAY was one of those denialists who thought HIV was mythical. I don't think he thought it had to be treated.  Not with HAART.  Nor with  "alternative therapies*. Nor even with the most esoteric guru/treatment/belief imaginable.  Pure denial.

Dead. as. a doornail. 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Mrmojorisin

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2012, 08:41:08 PM »
Ecuro,
 I watched the video...I cut if off right after he claimed he could cure HIV with "the right foods and the right water"..dude is a quack. Science has proven him wrong. I was only diagnosed a few months ago but I know bullshit when I see it. Listen to the long term folks on this site. They have seen and heard it all.
 Take conventional meds and live. Or try the alternatives and slowly waste away. Your choice.
Started Meds On 5/1/2012 Norvair, Truvada, Prezista, and Bactrim

4/17/2012--CD4 83/ VL 353,000  7.0%
5/15/2012--CD4 218/ VL 4,970    14.1%
6/27/2012--CD4 146/ VL 420      6.1%
10/11/2012-CD4-223/ VL-62       9.5%
2/14/2013--CD4-215/ VL-119      13.6%
7/3/2013---CD4-256/ VL-UD       18.0%
10/18/2013 CD4-223/ VL-UD       22.2%
01/23/2014-CD4-381/VL-UD       25.3%--Dropped the Bactrim

"arrrrhhhhh ahhrrhhhhh aaaarrhhh"- Chewbacca

Offline Ann

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2012, 09:42:48 PM »
Ecuro,

I removed the title and link you posted to a denialist video. We do not permit denialist disinformation in any way, shape or form here.

Repeated posting of denialist claptrap here will get you banned. Don't do it again.

From the Terms of Membership you agreed to when you created your account:

Quote


The premise of the AIDSmeds.com Forums, along with its parent site (AIDSmeds.com), is that HIV is the cause of AIDS. Individuals hoping to use the AIDSmeds.com Forums to disseminate “denialist” or “dissident” information will be automatically banned from the Forums.


Please consider yourself warned! This will be your ONLY warning.

Ann

PS - Ecuro, if you want to know more about how the denialists are downright dangerous people, have a read through the http://www.aidstruth.org/ website. It thoroughly debunks their outlandish claims.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 09:53:27 PM by Ann »
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

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Offline elf

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2012, 10:01:06 PM »
Alternative to HAART...We mostly know it from preHAART days...is not effective to be used as an alternative to HAART. It can improve numbers, but it's limited.

One of these CD4 raising drugs were interleukin-2 injections.


Quote
Ramelton is a medication recently approved by the FDA for treatment of insomnia. Ramelton is an analogue of melatonin with a higher affinity even than that of the natural ligand. Clinically this potentially strong effect of the ligand is blunted by the fact that upon oral ingestion there is first pass metabolism of greater than 95%. This liver metabolism is mediated by the CYP1A2 enzyme. It turns out that the medication fluvoxamine approved by the FDA for the treatment of obsessive compulsive disorder is a potent inhibitor of the CYP1A2 enzyme, with the effect that co-administration of ramelton and fluvoxamine increases blood levels of ramelton by 100-200 fold. It turns out that lymphocytes bear the melatnonin receptors and stimulation of these receptors on lymphocytes cause the lymphocytes to elaborate the pro-inflammatory cytokine interleukin-2 (Il-2). Thus, here we point out that co-administration of ramelton and modest doses of fluvoxamine may be able to smoothly produce increased levels of Il-2, this may be useful in diseases and conditions such as metastatic cancer and maintenance of suppression of the HIV virus.

Med Hypotheses. 2006;67(6):1389-90. Epub 2006 Aug 8.
Co-administration of ramelton and fluvoxamine to increase levels of interleukin-2.
Kast RE, Altschuler EL.
Source

Department of Psychiatry, University of Vermont, 2 Church Street, Burlington, VT 05401, United States. recast@email.com

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16893613

Endogenous IL-2 has shorter half-life and fewer side effects (compared to injections of synthetic IL-2)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 10:13:20 PM by elf »
Let's have a Kiki!

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2012, 11:09:58 PM »
Its always the same song and dance , they join the forum and ask about alternative treatments , say how awful HIV meds are and only answer questions we ask of them about why they don't want to explore conventional treatments in the most vague way they can get away with . This always = denialist .

Offline anniebc

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2012, 12:58:21 AM »
If I recall correctly, ETAY didn't believe in "alternative therapies". ETAY was one of those denialists who thought HIV was mythical. I don't think he thought it had to be treated.  Not with HAART.  Nor with  "alternative therapies*. Nor even with the most esoteric guru/treatment/belief imaginable.  Pure denial.

Dead. as. a doornail.

After several PM's back and forth with etay he told me he was trying some traditional Chinese Medicine, including Acupuncture, I don't recall the names of these meds, in fact if I recall right I couldn't even pronounce the names, so he did in fact take that route, but for how long I have no idea.

Jan
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Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline littleprince

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2012, 02:07:26 AM »
Ecuro,

I went about 6 years without medications (not by choice, I was too stupid to get tested earlier). Everything seemed great until I almost died from an AIDS related infection. Been on medications for 2 years now and I'm doing grrrreaat! Not sure what side effects you are talking about but I don't have them.

Offline agulha14

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2012, 12:37:19 PM »
Why is it always all or nothing with the "Alternative Medicine" crowd?

If you want to try Alternative Medicine why cant you try it AND take conventional treatment?  Why must you forgo a proven medication for one that is unproven?

If you want to take Alternative Medicines fine!  Do some research, find out what works and what doesn't and compliment your conventional treatment with it.  No one can fault you for that.
Because most of them want others to share their views, that HIV is some mumbo jumbo disease that we don't know anything about.  It seems that every one of these folks, insist they know the truth about HIV and generally go on to prove that they don't by becoming ill and dying.

Just don't EVER POST LINK(S) TO DENIALIST CRAP ON THIS WEBSITE, or our Oracle of the Isle will ban you in a heartbeat.

Joe

I wanted to weigh in on this, as a guy with HIV (for over 13 years), as well as a doctorate, two degrees in Chinese Medicine, and a medical practice specializing in complicated diagnoses.

I think there are two issues here that need to be addressed separately, and one of them is more or less being left off the table - that is, the well-being of the guy who made the initial post... I think the forum has been a bit harsh in its response to him; he's not a forum topic, and he's certainly not a threat - he is a fellow sufferer with HIV, and deserves our courtesy and respect for trying to find his way through this difficulty. Do you think he's on the wrong track? Well, which of us haven't been at times? Lighten up a bit, and leave some room for learning.

As for the question of the usefulness of alternative options...

I don't know of any respected approach to health that would say that HIV is 'mumbo-jumbo' - if you run across something like that, you can safely ignore it, in my opinion, as it will have little to offer you. Most alternative options - Naturopathy, Acupuncture/Chinese herbal medicine, Ayurveda, etc. - will have strange terminology but will acknowledge the wealth of research in the conventional medical tradition as a starting point for treating HIV.

Ecuro, I encourage you to keep an open mind to all of these options. Explore what alternatives you find, but don't close the door on conventional treatments. As someone recently diagnosed, you may not even need to consider HAART for some time, but you should keep up your labs, and monitor how things are going.

There are some powerful options out there to help us stay healthy. Chinese medicine is one I know well, and have some confidence in - but I would never suggest to a patient that it would be sufficient to keep you well without HAART. As time goes on the HAART options become more and more effective, with fewer and fewer complications. I think the combination of HAART and complementary options is extremely useful, and can keep people living normal, uncomplicated lives until their life reaches its full course.

Keep your options open, stay optimistic, and be confident that you will find the right pathway for yourself. The only person who loses if you choose to limit your options is yourself (well, and those who love you...).

all the best,

David
03/15/1999 - dx as HIV+
07/30/2003 - started HAART (Sustiva + Epzicom)
long history, not very interesting...
07/10/12 - started Atripla

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2012, 01:59:18 PM »
I think the forum did a pretty good job advising the OP  and was not harsh at all  , especially considering the fact he linked to a denialist web site I would say he was treated pretty well . Its also polite to address any questions forum members may have once you start a thread , something the OP never bothered to do .

Offline mecch

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2012, 03:47:57 PM »
There are some powerful options out there to help us stay healthy. Chinese medicine is one I know well, and have some confidence in - but I would never suggest to a patient that it would be sufficient to keep you well without HAART. As time goes on the HAART options become more and more effective, with fewer and fewer complications. I think the combination of HAART and complementary options is extremely useful, and can keep people living normal, uncomplicated lives until their life reaches its full course.



HAART is useful.  Keeps an HIV+ person healthy. Is proven by vast research to slow HIV replication to a minuscule level.   HAART alone is sufficient for an HIV+ person to live a healthy life.  And even more so if it comes at the right time and the person is already in good shape before starting to take it.  So, exactly why does anyone need complimentary treatments for HIV? 

Not saying different kinds of medicine traditions aren't filled with wisdom. They can treat all sorts of health challenges.  And deserve respect.  But there's ONLY HAART that stops HIV replication.
 
You got good points about leaving space for all people to learn and not teaching ignorant people with ridicule.

Nevertheless, seems like more than a few recent threads where people with commercial interests in vitamins, or some non western medicines, continue to fuzz the line, as to what is actually treating the HIV infection.  HAART. Duh. Just HAART. 
And what is possibly useful for other health challenges anyone can face, HIV+ or HIV-.   

What we want to see is that the naive or ignorant HIV+ person learns and understand the priority and proven utility of "HAART when necessary".   

Any other "healthy living" ideas, diets, philosophies, treatment, ok ok ok.  But never hold these out as lures, to be invested in, with false hopes and sometimes VERY bad budgeting choices. 

Nothing nothing nothing Indian or China had to offers saved anyone dropping dead, and quite a few of us here watched those deaths.  Me, twice spending myself into debt paying for treatments for loved ones desperate to try something, and that did nothing to stop the death. 

Not a few of us carry this to the present day and are just deeply suspicious if we feel that anyone could be taken advantage of.  Which is not to say anything "non western" is going to be a rip off.  Rather it is to say -- RIP OFFS DID HAPPEN, THEY STILL HAPPEN.   And tough shit, really, if genuine, useful, honest heart felt "alternative healing" has to fight against his prejudice. ALL HIV+ people except long-term non regressors are dealing in LIFE AND DEATH decisions when they are making their treatment choices.  And many many many HIV+ people have very strict budgets available for their health care.  All over the world, it is important that not a penny is spent on something non useful if that penny was needed to get and stay on the HAART.  Really, how many people have the resources to be treated by both HIV specialists, and all the labs, and the HAART when needed, AND pursue complimentary medicine. 

Here in Switzerland, there was a little miracle last year.  As a brief experiment and sort of HUSH HUSH, they required all insurance companies to cover some basic complementary medicines in the basic insurance that everyone must have - the basic basic one.  How amazing is that?  But really, around the world, how many HIV+ people have this double resource?   

In any event, people coming into this forum with ignorance or denial have to face the important facts first. The necessity of HAART.  And dealing with all the attendant challenges that go into access to HAART and standard medical treatment for HIV infection.   When and if there is time, and resources, and interest, and efficacy, fine, pursue whatever helps you live better.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 04:05:33 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2012, 04:12:28 PM »
If traditional Chinese medicine has a treatment to stop HIV infection in a body, put it out there. If western medicine Chinese research has a treatment, put it out there. I would think if China had anything useful for HIV infection it would be in every pharmacy around the world by now.

If Indian medicine has an HIV treatment, lets see it! Bring it on. Surely the Indians would love to be the source of a cure or an effective treatment for HIV.

Submit complimentary treatment for HIV to national review boards, show the efficacy, and get insurance companies or national health cares to pay for them. 

Every nation around the world would love to learn that non-propriety herbs or chemicals can effectively treat HIV.   Bring it on.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 04:14:21 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2012, 04:19:09 PM »
This forum does a fantastic job of self-policing against denialist activity and snake-oil salespersons.

We certainly do not dismiss all alternative therapy. We simply state that ART is the only proven way to increase dc4 counts and decrease viral loads in persons with HIV.

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Offline leatherman

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2012, 04:21:02 PM »
Its also polite to address any questions forum members may have once you start a thread , something the OP never bothered to do .
yes, I noticed too that the OP has vanished for the last 5 days. The last thing he told us was that he's never even had lab work done. :o Finding out a base viral load and cd4 count is the very basic step one must take before determining how to treat their HIV. The OP hasn't even taken this first step before declaring he wouldn't take conventional meds and was looking for "alternatives".

I still think the OP needs to be studying the lessons here and learning about HIV and meds before he reaches any more "conclusions". Whatever information he has been using up to now to make his decisions has not been adequate for him to truly understand the facts about HIV and it's treatment. ;)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


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Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2012, 04:29:47 PM »
yes, I noticed too that the OP has vanished for the last 5 days. The last thing he told us was that he's never even had lab work done. :o Finding out a base viral load and cd4 count is the very basic step one must take before determining how to treat their HIV. The OP hasn't even taken this first step before declaring he wouldn't take conventional meds and was looking for "alternatives".

I still think the OP needs to be studying the lessons here and learning about HIV and meds before he reaches any more "conclusions". Whatever information he has been using up to now to make his decisions has not been adequate for him to truly understand the facts about HIV and it's treatment. ;)

We are regularly trolled by denialists (and 14 year olds who are on suspension from school) in these forums. Not terribly often, but often enough. It makes me wonder whether certain posters are, in fact, actually HIV positive.

But yes, there have been (and likely still are) coordinated "attacks" on this site from those who wish to disrupt us using misinformation and undermining our scientific credibility. Usually, a moderator will catch an IP address blunder and such - but sometimes a person gets through.

That is why I try, often without success, to sit on my hands when someone comes in with an "immaculate infection" without correcting their mis/disinformation.

The credibility of this site is important to me, as I imagine it is to most members who use it for scientific inquiry.

I hope that only rattles the feathers of birds whose feathers need rattling.

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Offline emeraldize

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #46 on: July 12, 2012, 04:48:18 PM »
This forum does a fantastic job of self-policing against denialist activity and snake-oil salespersons.

We certainly do not dismiss all alternative therapy. We simply state that ART is the only proven way to increase dc4 counts and decrease viral loads in persons with HIV.

Agreed. There's almost an odor that comes with some posts. And I'm a junior compared to jk, mtd, mods and others.

Re: alternative therapy. I use acupuncture, have for years pre- and post-dx. However, I use it for what it can address and my CD4 and VL counts are not on that list.

Offline agulha14

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2012, 04:49:51 PM »
I seem to have stirred up the hornet's nest with my comments about keeping options open with regard to Chinese medicine. Perhaps I should clarify (you are also welcome to re-read my earlier post a little more carefully  ;)):

Chinese medicine does not cure HIV. Neither does any other alternative medicine, to the best of our knowledge.

My extensive experience has been that, in combination with HAART medicines, Chinese medicine (and perhaps others, but about these I can't speak from experience) can help a person remain healthy - that is, limiting side-effects, limiting HAART treatment failure, increasing quality of life, assisting recovery from illness, and so on. That sounds like a worthy point to make.

I am not advocating taking a light hand with denialist crap. I have no patience for that, and see it as one of the worst forms of misinformation put out to people suffering with this virus. It's a case of love-the-confused-hate-the-confuser.

Health, and finding health, is not an 'us vs. them' proposition. HAART does not cure sore throats, and may in fact cause them. HAART does not enable one to sleep well, and in fact often intrudes significantly on that necessary aspect of healing. In those cases, other forms of medicine may be very useful, to help keep the body strong, and ready to fight to be at its absolute resilient best.

All the best,

David
03/15/1999 - dx as HIV+
07/30/2003 - started HAART (Sustiva + Epzicom)
long history, not very interesting...
07/10/12 - started Atripla

Offline buginme2

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #48 on: July 12, 2012, 05:20:40 PM »


My extensive experience has been that, in combination with HAART medicines, Chinese medicine (and perhaps others, but about these I can't speak from experience) can help a person remain healthy

FUNNY, it hasn't done much for the Chinese

http://www.avert.org/aidschina.htm

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Alternative Medication For HIV
« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2012, 05:32:19 PM »
No mad hornets stirring around here , in fact this whole thread has been an example of the forum exhibiting our best manners .

Its a post and respond kind of thing and sometime people don't care for the advice they get .   

 


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