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Author Topic: Human Growth Hormone/Testosterone  (Read 12808 times)

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Offline TheRoof

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  • Posts: 188
Human Growth Hormone/Testosterone
« on: July 04, 2012, 06:02:30 AM »
HIV has one thing that I am not the biggest fan of. HGH/Test reductions. (There are numerous studies of that.)

It is scary how expensive HGH is. A while ago I got tested for testosterone levels. - The typical male testosterone level is between 250ng/dl to 850 ng/dl
I had 200-ish. (I do not remember the free-floating testosterone level)
I was 20 years old. (When I had that test.) The average forty-five year old male has about 600 ng/dl of Test. 

Having low testosterone levels this LOVE feels like you are not a man. I did get depressed about that.
  I felt I had problems. ("Something was off') I got tested for it. I was not surprised.  Thank God I am 6'1  and pretty-lean. BUT I do suffer from fatigue/brain fog and tiredness.
I am sure it is to hormone imbalance to the max. (or it may be all those antidepressants I took in the past that completely fucked my body/brain up. I regret it now)
Currently I am 22.  The doc said my testosterone level is fine. (I spoke to two other professionals they said this is not normal)

My doctor does not want to prescribe me anything because he says "I am too young". There are 17 year olds at my gym that are already doing anabolics. Granted they may not be HIV positive.
 I understand the doctor. If I was 18-19 I would get the point since I am still "growing" I guess.
I have been trying to watch my diet. High fat, High Protein, Lower Carbs. (Is what a friend recommended) and stick mostly to compound exercises. Hopefully that made a "dent"







Anyone who has expertise in this area what would you recommend? My doctor tells me I don't need it because of my age.
(I am happy to answer any other questions you may ask about this topic)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 06:07:25 AM by TheRoof »

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Human Growth Hormone/Testosterone
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2012, 08:11:35 AM »
Hello
1)  Edit your post. Take out the big blank space.  I read you post and didn't see that you asked a question, because it looks like a avatar tag, not part of text.

2) If some other doctors are willing to explore the testosterone question with you, as you report, why not make appointments with them.  Or was this offhand comments by doctors who were not paid to be treating you? 
Testosterone therapy has a LOT of downsides so your one doctor is being conservative in saying your low normal is OK.  All you can really do is doctor shop and see if another wants to initiate therapy.  Don't be tempted to do it like the weight lifters in the gym - outside medical supervision.  Please...
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline peer_gynt

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  • Posts: 14
Re: Human Growth Hormone/Testosterone
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2012, 05:08:34 PM »
Hey!
I wanna get tested for Testosterone levels too. Did you ask for it to your doctor?.
Do you go to the UMC? (I am also in Tucson), I just wanna know to see if it was easy to ask for that test to your physician over there.
Thanks!
Best
-C

Offline TheRoof

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  • Posts: 188
Re: Human Growth Hormone/Testosterone
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2012, 06:10:51 AM »
Hey!
I wanna get tested for Testosterone levels too. Did you ask for it to your doctor?.
Do you go to the UMC? (I am also in Tucson), I just wanna know to see if it was easy to ask for that test to your physician over there.
Thanks!
Best
-C

I go to the UMC too to get my work done. Ask them to test your thyroid too! (It is all correlated) How old are you in context to get T-Levels checked out? Have you experienced any "sympthoms." of notice?



Hello If some other doctors are willing to explore the testosterone question with you, as you report, why not make appointments with them.  Or was this offhand comments by doctors who were not paid to be treating you? 
Testosterone therapy has a LOT of downsides so your one doctor is being conservative in saying your low normal is OK.  All you can really do is doctor shop and see if another wants to initiate therapy.  Don't be tempted to do it like the weight lifters in the gym - outside medical supervision.  Please...

I should point this out...
I was offered a high-quality Oil-Based T-Steroid. Which is prescription based by a doctor for a very decent price. (My workout partner is big on roids. He can lift more, but in 3 weeks it' looks like he has gotten an improvement of a YEARS effort) His diet is horrendous. He eats fast-food every night. Before he was chubby-muscular. Now he has a six-pack with a V-torso. Yet he never does cardio. (Ever) Now he looks like a Greek Muscle Daddy.



This is how he KIND OF looked like before. (Not him, but body type)
http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/bc7/a98/bc7a98a3-4936-4f41-a4d0-dfa21aee1b13

This is literally 3-4 weeks latter. (Another person. But same body)
http://www.woofhunt.com/userpics/2009/Muscle-Daddy-and-Hairy-Muscular-Men-1-009.jpg






It definitely made me want to get the stuff, but I didn't. Stuck to hard work. Strict diet.     Nada.     (He is also HIV Positive)      (I am 22 years old. He is 47.)
« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 06:21:30 AM by TheRoof »

Offline WillyWump

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  • Posts: 7,195
Re: Human Growth Hormone/Testosterone
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2012, 10:20:19 PM »
I agree with your doc, you are too young for Testo...jsut because the guys in the gym are doing it without medical supervision does not mean it is ok for you. 200 is just slightly low, I wouldnt make any rash judgements about starting you really dont want to start scewing with your hormones at your age. Testo has alot of side effects, trust me I know. I've been injecting it for 2 years. I get bumps on my forehead and shoulders, my nuts are the size of grapes, the hair loss, and it can be mentally taxing with all the up and downs between injections. It's all very lovely.

I'm 44, when I started my level was 32, I have never gone above 250. What I wouldnt give to have a level of 200 and NOT have to shoot up.

-W
« Last Edit: August 11, 2012, 11:06:03 PM by WillyWump »
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline PortlandPoz

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  • Posts: 6
Re: Human Growth Hormone/Testosterone
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2012, 11:35:53 AM »
Hey TheRoof- I also lift but would say more now than ever keeping a healthy diet is extremely important.

The way I think of it is this- when you eat out you have no idea what is being put into the food, who is preparing it, if they are sanitary, etc. If you already have a compromised immune system it's probably the worst thing you can do to eat out constantly and especially fast/junk food.

Your body may look good by taking steroids or HGH but internally it's not going to stay good for long. If you aren't eating the things that help your body safely rebuild/maintain itself you will eventually suffer. It's like putting crappy cheap gas in your car. It works and will run but you will probably have a break down eventually and will have to spend time and money to make it work again.

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Human Growth Hormone/Testosterone
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2012, 08:12:15 AM »
Do you get hard?  Do you look like and feel like a guy in his 20's?

What is your objective with the body building and the desire for testosterone/drug use?

Its trade offs.  If you really get into gym culture and really want the hyper muscular body of your dreams, and you aren't getting it naturally, what is the price you want to pay to get it with drugs?  What is that body gonna mean?

Is there any body dysmorphic issues, here?
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline TheRoof

  • Member
  • Posts: 188
Re: Human Growth Hormone/Testosterone
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2012, 12:18:57 AM »
Hey all thank you for the replies!





I agree with your doc, you are too young for Testo...jsut because the guys in the gym are doing it without medical supervision does not mean it is ok for you. 200 is just slightly low, I wouldnt make any rash judgements about starting you really dont want to start scewing with your hormones at your age. Testo has alot of side effects, trust me I know. I've been injecting it for 2 years. I get bumps on my forehead and shoulders, my nuts are the size of grapes, the hair loss, and it can be mentally taxing with all the up and downs between injections. It's all very lovely.

I'm 44, when I started my level was 32, I have never gone above 250. What I wouldnt give to have a level of 200 and NOT have to shoot up.

-W

I appreciate the reply with someone with experience. I have done a lot of research on this. I try to take vitamins. Such as... flaxeed, multi, calc/magnesium/zinc, iron, B-Complex, B12, Amino Acid supplement.  -- I take vitamins and I've noticed im getting more arm hair and chest hair. 
(P.s. if you had to recommend a protein supplement in pill form. That is an Amino Acid. What would you recommend?) Most don't really have any protein in it

Hey TheRoof- I also lift but would say more now than ever keeping a healthy diet is extremely important.

The way I think of it is this- when you eat out you have no idea what is being put into the food, who is preparing it, if they are sanitary, etc. If you already have a compromised immune system it's probably the worst thing you can do to eat out constantly and especially fast/junk food.

Your body may look good by taking steroids or HGH but internally it's not going to stay good for long. If you aren't eating the things that help your body safely rebuild/maintain itself you will eventually suffer. It's like putting crappy cheap gas in your car. It works and will run but you will probably have a break down eventually and will have to spend time and money to make it work again.

I workout with pretty strong guys. I lift very close to what they lift. I can notice a "bloated" gain. but the next day I am back to the  point where It looks like I haven't even touched the weights in months.
(They don't know about the HIV) but they "accuse" me of starving myself. Which is a lie!

(I made an appointment with a nutrionist)



Do you get hard?  Do you look like and feel like a guy in his 20's?

What is your objective with the body building and the desire for testosterone/drug use?

Its trade offs.  If you really get into gym culture and really want the hyper muscular body of your dreams, and you aren't getting it naturally, what is the price you want to pay to get it with drugs?  What is that body gonna mean?

Is there any body dysmorphic issues, here?

These are good questions. I am not sure... I honestly feel "older' than most of people my age. I am 22, but I do not get along with people my age. (At all.) I feel there is not much to talk about (Not in an elitist sense. I just do not feel "young". I have never really been part of the club scene. I was in fraternity a year and a half back. But left because the guys that I was "slightly off") I mostly workout with older guys.


Erections wise.
I do not get erections anymore. I have no desire for sex. I am not really depressed. But I go through these episodes maybe once a month. Where I don't sleep for 3-4 days at a time. (I do not take any psychiatric medicine anymore.) Then I can have sexual intercourse for what it seems like days.  I can sexually stimulate myself for 13-14 hours without orgasm. Until I decide to "release." I just figure its stress causing this.

I am just... "blah"  in general. I try to stick to compound movements. I am "strong" just look weak.
(Body image wise.)  What triggered me  just 3 days ago. Is when I was walking out the gym these few guys (who are also in college said...) "The guy has good legs, but he looks like an addict"

That broke my heart. I assume they meant "serious drugs" to make that assumption. I try not to let it bother me. Because it is not true.


The body dysmorphic thing.  While it would be nice to look like Brad Pitt in gladiator my frame (HIV or not) would not allow that. -I just want to "feel good" (Does that make sense?-
If I had to give you a person. People always make stupid remarks like. "You look like the guy from twilight" or always some stupid thing related to vampires.
I  stand out from the rest of the crowd. There are other skinny guys. Girls always make awkward comments. "Did you see that guy? bla bla bla" or... "Holy Shit"   I hate it I feel like I just... don't belong. (I am caucasian. yet everyone makes a remark. With the exception of Latinos. They never say anything) I know that sound like a weird observation.. but it is what it is.
 I try to be optimistic and keep my head held high.





Who knows. I reread my post.  Maybe It's schizophrenia/bipolar disorder. But I was never diagnosed with that.  Maybe I'm paranoid. I try to be rational about this. I am sane enough to keep a job & I am graduating this semester with a 3.4 GPA.
 But when people say  that stuff. They still say it. It's a dilemma I have been battling for a few years now.


All my doctor says is "you're young." well... that is true. I agree, but I also have this disease. I never use it as an excuse NOT to live life. But still...  it sucks! & It makes you lose motivation a lot. (when no results are seen) lol
I  just want to see results. & that simply it.      If there was some supplement that could match my "criteria" I would love to research it.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 12:39:07 AM by TheRoof »

Offline TheRoof

  • Member
  • Posts: 188
Re: Human Growth Hormone/Testosterone
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2012, 12:40:55 AM »
I agree with your doc, you are too young for Testo...jsut because the guys in the gym are doing it without medical supervision does not mean it is ok for you. 200 is just slightly low, I wouldnt make any rash judgements about starting you really dont want to start scewing with your hormones at your age. Testo has alot of side effects, trust me I know. I've been injecting it for 2 years. I get bumps on my forehead and shoulders, my nuts are the size of grapes, the hair loss, and it can be mentally taxing with all the up and downs between injections. It's all very lovely.

I'm 44, when I started my level was 32, I have never gone above 250. What I wouldnt give to have a level of 200 and NOT have to shoot up.

-W

BTW. We are on a similar regimen  :) I am on Norvir/Prezista/Truvada! (How is your regimen.?) Is that a good regimen for keeping T-level constant? Are there better regimens possibly? If you know.) I like doing  advanced physiology research for fun. & study neurology &  endocrine system

Offline mecch

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  • Posts: 11,902
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Human Growth Hormone/Testosterone
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2012, 01:18:40 AM »
I try to take vitamins. Such as... flaxeed, multi, calc/magnesium/zinc, iron, B-Complex, B12, Amino Acid supplement.  -- I take vitamins and I've noticed im getting more arm hair and chest hair. 

You are 22. Don't be so quick to attribute the body hair to any supplements. Its common for guys to get hairier in their 20's.

Erections wise.
I do not get erections anymore. I have no desire for sex. I am not really depressed. But I go through these episodes maybe once a month. Where I don't sleep for 3-4 days at a time. (I do not take any psychiatric medicine anymore.) Then I can have sexual intercourse for what it seems like days.  I can sexually stimulate myself for 13-14 hours without orgasm. Until I decide to "release." I just figure its stress causing this.
Hmm.  Has your GP or your HIV doc sent you to neurologist or a psychiatrist to investigate any of this stuff, mentioned above, and below?

Its awful that you are so young and not getting wood and not wanting sex.  That sounds frustrating, demoralizing and really something that doctors should be investigating.  You don't deserve this burden. 

The marathon edging sessions sound like a normal enough fetish (though 14 hours????).  But the not sleeping for days sound like little bouts of mania - I dunno - if I were you I would be bugging my doc to investigate a bit.... 

You might want to figure out how all this can be regulated soon.  If possible.  Just because I think a student on a student schedule can compensate for these irregular hours but if you are looking at 9-5 work for after graduation, well we can't really function all that well at work if we are on sleepless jags, for example.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 01:26:05 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Human Growth Hormone/Testosterone
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2012, 01:31:58 AM »
PS - plenty of people are VERY attracted to skinny guys.  And if anyone is comparing you to Robert Pattinson, you can pretty much take that as a compliment. You mention Brad Pitt in Gladiator (that was Russell Crowe - a much stockier guy than Brad Pitt ever was - I guess you mean Pitt in Troy), but Pitt was a skinny ripped cute runt in his early 20's and Robert Pattinson is considered by most of the world, it seems, to be gorgeous. Sounds like, objectively speaking, you are good looking.  But subjectively, you may not be able to see this, yourself.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 01:35:07 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline TheRoof

  • Member
  • Posts: 188
Re: Human Growth Hormone/Testosterone
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2012, 02:42:57 AM »
You are 22. Don't be so quick to attribute the body hair to any supplements. Its common for guys to get hairier in their 20's.
 Hmm.  Has your GP or your HIV doc sent you to neurologist or a psychiatrist to investigate any of this stuff, mentioned above, and below?

Its awful that you are so young and not getting wood and not wanting sex.  That sounds frustrating, demoralizing and really something that doctors should be investigating.  You don't deserve this burden. 

The marathon edging sessions sound like a normal enough fetish (though 14 hours????).  But the not sleeping for days sound like little bouts of mania - I dunno - if I were you I would be bugging my doc to investigate a bit.... 

You might want to figure out how all this can be regulated soon.  If possible.  Just because I think a student on a student schedule can compensate for these irregular hours but if you are looking at 9-5 work for after graduation, well we can't really function all that well at work if we are on sleepless jags, for example.

That's what the doctor said! On the 4th day of not sleeping. He said "It sounds like Hypomania" or something like that. I fell asleep at the end of the 5th day. (I wasn't on pills or anything! Which is the weird thing.)


I went to get an MRI done. They said everything was "normal" all though the neurologist did want to prescribe me Celexa. I decided not to take it. SSRI's are known for Sexual Dysfunction. -(I have tried taking it before) I can assure to some extent it was that, that caused it (I have stopped it for almost 2 years) - And yes.
The lack of sex drive has sucks! People attribute age to lack of sexual decline. That is not 100% true. I am a prime example of a 21-22 year old who has suffered from this problem!         I can get an erection, (usually not in the mood for 1 though)  but I simply just don't think about sex. (Only when I go days without sleeping. Is when I start to think about it. Thats the weird thing!) 

I have not had this problem when I was 17-18-19. So it sucks!      I was hoping the vitamins would help me feel better sexually, but they haven't. I have tried cialis, but I kinda wanna try doing this stuff naturally! (And I don't want to become dependent on it.) (if possible! I would want to achieve this naturally.) If at this point i can even do it.

It just sucks. My quality of life at this age feels... very "blah" I just don't know what to do. -- The doctors are not really "helping".
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 02:46:10 AM by TheRoof »

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Human Growth Hormone/Testosterone
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2012, 11:36:11 AM »
What about a psychiatrist.
A psychiatrist who does talk therapy and sees you regularly.  Is this financially possible?
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline WillyWump

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  • Posts: 7,195
Re: Human Growth Hormone/Testosterone
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2012, 01:00:50 PM »
BTW. We are on a similar regimen  :) I am on Norvir/Prezista/Truvada! (How is your regimen.?) Is that a good regimen for keeping T-level constant? Are there better regimens possibly? If you know.) I like doing  advanced physiology research for fun. & study neurology &  endocrine system

I'm not certain that any studies have been done on which regimens are easier on T levels.  Me personally I've never seen any difference between the 3 regimens I have been on Atripla, Prez/Tru/Nor, and the current one Prez/Epz/Nor. You just really need to work closely with your doctor on this and the other issues you are concerned with.

-Will
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Bates

  • Member
  • Posts: 4
Re: Human Growth Hormone/Testosterone
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2012, 02:09:13 AM »
I agree with your doc, you are too young for Testo...jsut because the guys in the gym are doing it without medical supervision does not mean it is ok for you. 200 is just slightly low, I wouldnt make any rash judgements about starting you really dont want to start scewing with your hormones at your age. Testo has alot of side effects, trust me I know. I've been injecting it for 2 years. I get bumps on my forehead and shoulders, my nuts are the size of grapes, the hair loss, and it can be mentally taxing with all the up and downs between injections. It's all very lovely.

I'm 44, when I started my level was 32, I have never gone above 250. What I wouldnt give to have a level of 200 and NOT have to shoot up.

-W

WW, you might want to space out your injections more. Like if you inject 1 ml once a week, inject 1/2 ml twice a week. Keeping your blood levels stable will help with the emotional roller coaster and the acne.

Offline WillyWump

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,195
Re: Human Growth Hormone/Testosterone
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2012, 11:15:37 PM »
WW, you might want to space out your injections more. Like if you inject 1 ml once a week, inject 1/2 ml twice a week. Keeping your blood levels stable will help with the emotional roller coaster and the acne.

I've considered that. But I have a problem with needles and injections, especially in my leg. Its not especially painful, but the needle is so long and it jsut freaks me out, especially when I hit a nerve.. Even though I've been doing it for 2 years each time is just like the first time. I can barely get the nerve to do it every 2 weeks much less every week. But yes, I need to weight that against the roller coaster effect thing.

-WIll

POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline lincoln6echo

  • Member
  • Posts: 109
Re: Human Growth Hormone/Testosterone
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2013, 09:38:30 PM »
Hey Will, all. 
I'm doing the injections now too.
Side effects are mentioned in this thread a few times...but if one is low in testosterone, and starts taking it to round up to normal levels, how does that lead to side effects or adverse reactions? Isn't it just compensating for what you should already have?



 


Offline WillyWump

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,195
Re: Human Growth Hormone/Testosterone
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2013, 09:27:22 PM »
Hey Will, all. 
I'm doing the injections now too.
Side effects are mentioned in this thread a few times...but if one is low in testosterone, and starts taking it to round up to normal levels, how does that lead to side effects or adverse reactions? Isn't it just compensating for what you should already have?

When you go on Testosterone replacement therapy it causes your testes to stop producing Testosterone, which over time cause the testes to shrink, like mine. By injecting Testo you are introducing a large amount of Testo into the body at once, rather than a level continuous amount that your testes produced. This, can cause side effects such as mood swings (too much testo at once) or acne. On the flip side after 2 weeks, the Testo can deplete suddenly causing a reverse mood swing such as depression, and fatigue and a myriad of other side effects. These side effects can be more pronounced in some people than others. Of course the upside to all of are the beneficial effects of Testo, which you might be seeing already, such as better energy, better sex, less depression and more lean muscle mass.

-W

« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 09:30:47 PM by WillyWump »
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

 


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