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Author Topic: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval  (Read 12329 times)

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Offline Ann

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #50 on: July 06, 2012, 11:19:26 AM »
Come on, give those Am I Infected folks some credit.  Just wait until they ask you if they can get teh AIDS from the kit itself.  You just know someone will be this paranoid.

Joe

We've had that question countless times already - about home kits as well as being tested by a health care professional. Here's a recent example. Haven't had one about home kits lately, but we've definitely had them many times.


My biggest worry about this new home test is the unbelievably high rate of false negative results. Sure, they may be from people jumping the gun and testing too soon, but there's going to be people who just assume it's correct and not follow up with testing at the appropriate time. Until they produce an idiot-proof home test (where you analyse the results yourself), I don't think they're a good idea.

Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #51 on: July 07, 2012, 10:06:08 AM »
We've had that question countless times already - about home kits as well as being tested by a health care professional. Here's a recent example. Haven't had one about home kits lately, but we've definitely had them many times.


My biggest worry about this new home test is the unbelievably high rate of false negative results. Sure, they may be from people jumping the gun and testing too soon, but there's going to be people who just assume it's correct and not follow up with testing at the appropriate time. Until they produce an idiot-proof home test (where you analyse the results yourself), I don't think they're a good idea.


What about the ones who test for 6 years out and continue to test negative? :)

Offline Ann

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #52 on: July 07, 2012, 12:03:23 PM »

What about the ones who test for 6 years out and continue to test negative? :)

Insanity.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #53 on: July 07, 2012, 02:50:35 PM »

What about the ones who test for 6 years out and continue to test negative? :)

Insanity.

They'll probably test positive for the other HIV (the Human Idiocy Vector).
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Online Jeff G

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #54 on: July 07, 2012, 03:35:12 PM »
I'm wondering if you can tamper with the test to make it always give a positive result . It would be a great practical joke for my best friend who has it coming to him for some of the stuff he pulls on me like the no tear toilet paper he put in my bathroom this morning .
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 03:45:36 PM by jg1962 »

Offline BT65

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #55 on: July 07, 2012, 04:07:00 PM »
I wonder if any insurance is going to cover this, seeing how the very inexpensive condoms are not covered. It is a bit unsettling that even Obamacare does not cover condoms, seeing how it covers birth control for women.

Birth control for women are prescribed medications-condoms aren't.   If they decided to sell the birth control meds otc, I can guarantee they wouldn't be as cheap as condoms.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline NY2011

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #56 on: July 08, 2012, 08:59:08 PM »
Hellraiser brings up a good point.  Pregnancy tests, too, are available for home use, are known to have a track record of false indications, and can be the source of some very unwelcomed news for some, yet it is largely an effective and useful tool in planning for the next steps. I feel that an HIV home testing kit, by and large, will have the same advantages.

Some of you have brought up the concern that people will not get the right counseling or support with home testing, should they get unwelcomed news. There seems to be this MYTH that everyone gets support in a clinical setting when they are diagnosed with HIV.  There may be a counseling component in places like clinics, but it's definitely not like that in U.S. private practice.  I got the right amount of medical attention from an excellent specialist, but he made it abundantly clear that he is not a counselor.  For that, he recommended a few support groups.

If you look beyond your own life experience, and perhaps your own community, it may occur to you that there are people who would not, under NO circumstances, go to a clinic for testing.  Or, it may be shocking to you to believe that there are lots of people who don't want to bring up the subject with their doctor, nor do they want their doctor to know the results.  What if you're married, and you're asking your FAMILY DOCTOR for an HIV test?!  Anonymous, convenient, WIDESPREAD, and  accurate testing WITHOUT shame or guilt VS. protecting some people who get bad news and can't cope? ...at the expense of a person's life and health??  f-ck you very much, CDC.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 09:25:13 PM by NY2011 »
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Offline Ann

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #57 on: July 08, 2012, 09:31:17 PM »

There seems to be this MYTH that everyone gets support in a clinical setting when they are diagnosed with HIV.  There may be a counseling component in places like clinics, but it's definitely not like that in U.S. private practice.  I got the right amount of medical attention from an excellent specialist, but he made it abundantly clear that he is not a counselor.  For that, he recommended a few support groups.


NY, but a medical doctor does do counseling, regardless of what it may be called. 

When the doctor talks over your risk-timeline with you and advises you where you are in the window period and whether or not you are testing late enough for a conclusive result, she's giving you medical counsel.

You can't get that at home.

When the doctor tells you what your test results mean and indicate whether or not further testing is warranted, he's giving you medical counsel.

You cannot get this at home.

When she gives you any information about your virus, such as what your numbers mean, if or when you need to go on meds, or when you're given instructions on how to take care of yourself and/or take your meds etc, she's giving you medical counsel.

You cannot get this at home either.

This is crucial support and information (counsel) that people getting positive test results need.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 09:33:05 PM by Ann »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Online Jeff G

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #58 on: July 08, 2012, 10:27:07 PM »
I bet the people that wont go to a clinic under any circumstances for an HIV test will be begging for an appointment after they get a positive test or a false positive test .

I'm not saying home HIV testing is the worst idea in the world but my decades of living with aids falls heavily on the side of home HIV testing is not the best idea .

The fact remains a person needs medical and emotional support that comes with HIV testing for either a negative or positive result . Its not a logical argument to factor in that people may not get counseling anyway if they go to a testing center or doctor , its like saying doctors make mistakes so don't go to doctors .   

Offline mecch

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #59 on: July 08, 2012, 11:50:06 PM »
Hellraiser brings up a good point.  Pregnancy tests, too, are available for home use, are known to have a track record of false indications, and can be the source of some very unwelcomed news for some, yet it is largely an effective and useful tool in planning for the next steps. I feel that an HIV home testing kit, by and large, will have the same advantages.

Some of you have brought up the concern that people will not get the right counseling or support with home testing, should they get unwelcomed news. There seems to be this MYTH that everyone gets support in a clinical setting when they are diagnosed with HIV.  There may be a counseling component in places like clinics, but it's definitely not like that in U.S. private practice.  I got the right amount of medical attention from an excellent specialist, but he made it abundantly clear that he is not a counselor.  For that, he recommended a few support groups.

If you look beyond your own life experience, and perhaps your own community, it may occur to you that there are people who would not, under NO circumstances, go to a clinic for testing.  Or, it may be shocking to you to believe that there are lots of people who don't want to bring up the subject with their doctor, nor do they want their doctor to know the results.  What if you're married, and you're asking your FAMILY DOCTOR for an HIV test?!  Anonymous, convenient, WIDESPREAD, and  accurate testing WITHOUT shame or guilt VS. protecting some people who get bad news and can't cope? ...at the expense of a person's life and health??  f-ck you very much, CDC.

Many many many cities around the world provide anonymous testing centers.
Otherwise, some good points. Nobody is saying the home testing kits are  100 FAIL bad idea, you realize....
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #60 on: July 09, 2012, 12:31:12 AM »
NY, but a medical doctor does do counseling, regardless of what it may be called. 

When the doctor talks over your risk-timeline with you and advises you where you are in the window period and whether or not you are testing late enough for a conclusive result, she's giving you medical counsel.

You can't get that at home.

When the doctor tells you what your test results mean and indicate whether or not further testing is warranted, he's giving you medical counsel.

You cannot get this at home.

When she gives you any information about your virus, such as what your numbers mean, if or when you need to go on meds, or when you're given instructions on how to take care of yourself and/or take your meds etc, she's giving you medical counsel.

You cannot get this at home either.

This is crucial support and information (counsel) that people getting positive test results need.



Your words, they fall like soft rain upon deaf ears.

Everybody wants a cheat.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

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Welcome Thread

Offline Ann

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #61 on: July 09, 2012, 07:36:35 AM »

I bet the people that wont go to a clinic under any circumstances for an HIV test will be begging for an appointment after they get a positive test or a false positive test .
   

You're probably right for the most part on that score, although there will be those who are so terrified that they won't. Terrified that others will find out, mainly. After all, isn't that the main reason for testing at home?

This is one of the ways in which the home pregnancy test argument falls down. Untreated hiv can be hidden - for years sometimes - but a positive pregnancy test can only be hidden for a matter of weeks or months.

The cat's going to be out of the bag in much less than a year. A pregnancy is visible and obvious and that woman is going to be urged to get medical attention in a much more timely fashion than someone living with an invisible virus.

Another consideration - with a FALSE NEGATIVE pregnancy result, the mistake will be apparent very quickly, within a few weeks or a month. A FALSE NEGATIVE HIV result can go undiscovered for YEARS.

Pregnancy is a normal human state of being. Having hiv is not. While there may still be stigma attached to out-of-wedlock or teen pregnancy, it is no where near the level of stigma that is attached to hiv.

Also, pregnancy testing at home is very often a joyous occasion and it's nice to be able to privately share that moment with your partner. My partner and I did mine in almost a ceremonial fashion and we were thrilled when the test turned positive.

When is anyone ever thrilled to have an hiv test turn positive?

Home pregnancy testing and home hiv testing cannot be compared. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

Allowing people to test for hiv in the closet only serves to keep hiv in the closet, despite what the manufacturers of the kits want people to think.

As for the lack of "counseling" that goes along with home hiv testing, what has really got me worried about this particular test is its high rate of FALSE NEGATIVES. A person who isn't given counsel about the proper testing window and who isn't given counsel about how to perform the test correctly may still be poz but dangerously think they don't.

Sure, there are instructions that come with the test, but c'mon, how many people are not going to carefully read the fine print? How many people with reading or comprehension difficulties are going to screw up and get a FALSE NEGATIVE? Far too many, if you ask me.

A person who only thinks they are hiv negative is a potentially dangerous person.

We should not be putting medical diagnostic capabilities into the hands of lay-men when it comes to serious illness. (Pregnancy is NOT an illness.) It should be left to the health care professionals. As I said earlier, until they design an idiot-proof home test, I don't think they're a good idea.

Your words, they fall like soft rain upon deaf ears.

Everybody wants a cheat.


Yes. And everyone wants a short-cut. Everyone wants instant gratification. Unfortunately, there are no short-cuts to hiv testing.



edited for clarity - I really should use preview more often!
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 07:51:26 AM by Ann »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline bocker3

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #62 on: July 09, 2012, 07:43:12 AM »
The fact remains a person needs medical and emotional support that comes with HIV testing for either a negative or positive result .


I couldn't agree more.  BOTH need counseling -- on what a poz results means, next steps, etc.  A neg result -- a reminder on what you need do to maintain that result -- as well as a reminder that, if a risky event has occured -- when to come back for a definitive test (well, definitive for THAT event).

Its not a logical argument to factor in that people may not get counseling anyway if they go to a testing center or doctor , its like saying doctors make mistakes so don't go to doctors .

The other part of this is, though............ is it logical to say -- if no counseling, then please go on living without the knowledge that you are positive?? 

there are a whole host of reasons why people avoid testing -- stigma, denial, etc.....  And this can happen to anyone -- no matter how much you know about HIV.  I put off testing for a very long time -- despite knowing the risks I had taken -- despite knowing how HIV is transmitted and what existed out there for treatment -- despite having a Master of Public Health degree!!  The human brain's capability to deny logic &/or facts is immeasurable.
ANY tool that can help more people get tested is a good idea IMO. 

Mike
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #63 on: July 09, 2012, 07:49:22 AM »
As I said earlier, until they design an idiot-proof home test, I don't think they're a good idea.

Really --  if this is the likely vehicle that gets someone to test and find out they are positive before ending up fighting for the life with PCP or something else?  You really do believe that they should get that bad?  I don't think you do -- not to put words in your mouth, but you have shown far more compassion than that.
Yes -- it would be ideal if they went in to a clinic or doctor office, but we have evidence that many don't / won't.  You said it best "A person who only thinks they are hiv negative is a potentially dangerous person." -- so let's give them all the tools possible to find the truth.  There will be countless more true positive results than false negatives.  Until testing -- both groups are "dangerous people".

Mike

edited to add:  And I state this even though I spent years doing diagnostic testing in medical settings.  Home testing is not ideal, but it's drawbacks are not sufficient to warrant banning them.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 07:51:31 AM by bocker3 »
Atripla - Started 12/05
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Offline Ann

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #64 on: July 09, 2012, 08:14:48 AM »
By the way, the reason I was going on about comparing hiv home test kits to pregnancy home test kits was the following comment:


Pregnancy tests, too, are available for home use, are known to have a track record of false indications, and can be the source of some very unwelcomed news for some, yet it is largely an effective and useful tool in planning for the next steps. I feel that an HIV home testing kit, by and large, will have the same advantages.
 


Mike, OK, here's what is getting to me.

The manufacturer claims that home hiv testing will take away the stigma of hiv testing, but I don't think it will. It will only reinforce the idea that it's something shameful, to be done where no-one else will know about it. It keeps it in the closet.

What I think they should be doing instead is making hiv tests a routine part of health care, included in all the other routine tests such as the ones that are generally referred to as a CBC. Far too many people are not being tested in a health-care setting because of the whole stupid "risk group" idea.

As I've said here many times, sexually speaking, the ONLY TRUE risk group is that group of people who have had unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse at some point in their lives. Let's face it, that includes most adults on the planet. Every adult should be regularly screened for hiv as a matter of course. Hep C too for that matter. The hep C death rate has exceeded the hiv death rate in the States.

If they really want to normalise hiv testing, they'd be offering rapid tests in Walmart like I hear they do BP monitoring and diabetes glucose tests.

I do understand there are pros to hiv home tests, but I'm not sure the pros outweigh the cons.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline bocker3

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #65 on: July 09, 2012, 05:24:03 PM »
By the way, the reason I was going on about comparing hiv home test kits to pregnancy home test kits was the following comment:


Mike, OK, here's what is getting to me.

The manufacturer claims that home hiv testing will take away the stigma of hiv testing, but I don't think it will. It will only reinforce the idea that it's something shameful, to be done where no-one else will know about it. It keeps it in the closet.

What I think they should be doing instead is making hiv tests a routine part of health care, included in all the other routine tests such as the ones that are generally referred to as a CBC. Far too many people are not being tested in a health-care setting because of the whole stupid "risk group" idea.

As I've said here many times, sexually speaking, the ONLY TRUE risk group is that group of people who have had unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse at some point in their lives. Let's face it, that includes most adults on the planet. Every adult should be regularly screened for hiv as a matter of course. Hep C too for that matter. The hep C death rate has exceeded the hiv death rate in the States.

If they really want to normalise hiv testing, they'd be offering rapid tests in Walmart like I hear they do BP monitoring and diabetes glucose tests.

I do understand there are pros to hiv home tests, but I'm not sure the pros outweigh the cons.

Other than the very last line -- I agree with everything you said (I figured we were more in agreement than not).
From my POV -- a less than ideal home test that gets some folks to treatment, is better than letting them get deathly ill to find out their status.  I put it in the "don't let the desire for perfection be the enemy of progress".  There are a whole lot of things that would be better -- but right now, this is what we have available.

Hugs,
M
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #66 on: July 09, 2012, 08:12:52 PM »
When only 28% of diagnosed HIV-infected people (in the US) are actually on treatment and undetectable, I have a hard time getting all worked up about a "at home" HIV test.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #67 on: July 09, 2012, 11:49:53 PM »
When only 28% of diagnosed HIV-infected people (in the US) are actually on treatment and undetectable, I have a hard time getting all worked up about a "at home" HIV test.

+++++
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Online Jeff G

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #68 on: July 10, 2012, 08:26:37 AM »
You're probably right for the most part on that score, although there will be those who are so terrified that they won't. Terrified that others will find out, mainly. After all, isn't that the main reason for testing at home?



Of course you are right about this . If I had botherd to carefully read what you had wrote before I posted I wouldn't have because you pretty much summed up how I feel about it .

Also , for me and from a purely emotional standpoint as someone who knows about stigma from living with HIV for so long the point you made about reinforcing shame and the hide and test thing is very valid for me .   

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #69 on: July 10, 2012, 10:04:01 AM »
It may reinforce stigma, but for many people that's just a fact of life. Do you have any idea that at every major HIV clinic there's a not insignificant portion of patients that are petrified about even being seen going in there for an appointment? So of course there are even more that are petrified to be seen going into an HIV testing center. It's also why a significant amount of people that have been diagnosed are not in regular treatment. So fuck your concern about reinforcing stigma -- do you want more people to be in treatment or not? This is a joke of an argument frankly.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Online Jeff G

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #70 on: July 10, 2012, 10:44:08 AM »
I agree the test will not do squat about stigma and laughed when I read that part of the maketing pitch . They just want to sell the test and couldn't care less what happens after you walk away from the cash register . 

Offline buginme2

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #71 on: July 10, 2012, 11:12:51 AM »
Do you have any idea that at every major HIV clinic there's a not insignificant portion of patients that are petrified about even being seen going in there for an appointment? So of course there are even more that are petrified to be seen going into an HIV testing center.

This is true!   

When I first tested positive I was embarrased to go to the HIV clinic and the ASO.  While I did get over that pretty quickly, I can understand the feeling of someone preferring to test at home.

Can't we just consider this another tool in the testing arsenal?

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #72 on: July 10, 2012, 11:15:37 AM »
Do any of you sit and wonder that this was unanimously approved by the FDA advisory panel? It's not like it was a 5-4 split decision. Even scream-and-yell entities like Housing Works advocated for this. Doesn't any of that make you reconsider your emotional response to this topic?
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #73 on: July 10, 2012, 11:26:55 AM »
Do any of you sit and wonder that this was unanimously approved by the FDA advisory panel? It's not like it was a 5-4 split decision. Even scream-and-yell entities like Housing Works advocated for this. Doesn't any of that make you reconsider your emotional response to this topic?

No

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #74 on: July 10, 2012, 11:35:32 AM »
Well, please allow me to call you pathetic and sad!
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #75 on: July 10, 2012, 11:39:32 AM »
Well, please allow me to call you pathetic and sad!

OH get in line Missy , I have been insulted by better gals than you for years . 

Offline leatherman

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #76 on: July 10, 2012, 12:03:46 PM »
Can't we just consider this another tool in the testing arsenal?
we have too, because it's already a done deal.  ;) the genie is out of the bottle and if the test isn't on the store shelf yet, it will be soon. Now all we can do is wait to see the effect this WILL have.

just like the Truvada prescriptions for non-pozzies before any specific risk situation, the at-home test is just another new tool added the arsenal this year against the epidemic, no matter what the opposing view was/is. Let's hope BOTH tools have good outcomes now, and the cautions against how they could fail or falter do NOT come true.
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Offline madbrain

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #77 on: July 11, 2012, 01:03:32 AM »
I agree the test will not do squat about stigma and laughed when I read that part of the maketing pitch . They just want to sell the test and couldn't care less what happens after you walk away from the cash register .

Agree - it won't change anything about the stigma.
I really don't know what will. I wish I did.

The existence of the test is still a very good thing.

Offline NY2011

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #78 on: July 29, 2012, 02:14:18 AM »
Posted by POZ magazine:

MSM Able to Use Home HIV Tests to Screen Sex Partners and Lower Risk
http://www.poz.com/articles/hiv_home_testing_761_22737.shtml
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Offline mecch

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #79 on: July 29, 2012, 06:20:58 AM »
Participants in the study found the oral swab tests easy to use and “highly acceptable,” according to the researchers. The in-home tests helped these MSM identify high-risk partners—in fact, 10 men tested positive—and the tests helped the participants modify their own behavior so they were at lower risk of contracting HIV.

I dunno.  Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
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Offline leatherman

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #80 on: July 29, 2012, 09:12:33 AM »
Quote
In the previous three months, participants had an average of 15 male sexual partners, 11 occasions of unprotected receptive anal intercourse and nine occasions of unprotected insertive anal intercourse. In addition, 48 percent had a lifetime history of sexually transmitted infections (STIs), 93 percent used alcohol in the previous three months, and 56 percent used marijuana during that same time period.
sad, scary, worrisome numbers in that report.

Nearly half had already had an STI and yet 73% of the time still didn't use condoms. That's some hefty risk behavior in need of some counseling. Wonder what kind of HIV message, counseling or education any of the men had received over the years? Whatever it was, apparently it wasn't working. Yet wonder why they used condoms 27% of the time? Was this their choice or at the behest of their partners who were more informed? Would education, counseling and condoms have worked just as well? (Or maybe even better considering the risk of false poz/neg from the test and the lack of risk from condoms).

Quote
Ten men tested positive for HIV; six of them did not know they were living with the virus. In addition, two partners disclosed that they were HIV positive once they were asked to take a home test
In real life, how applicable is this study anyway, as those kits came with a cost of at least $280 over the 3 month period? There might have been a lot of different attitudes and outcomes if those participants were having to pay out all that money and then finding out their potential trick was poz, or poz and knew it already but weren't disclosing before perhaps attempting to have unprotected sex. (btw the way, what was the situation with the missing 2 men in that statistic?)

But maybe money and real life just doesn't factor into the studies before these things are implemented. I mean look at Truvada. Recent paperwork at my house shoed it to cost over $950 a month, yet it's beingg recommended as a viable option for people who aren't even poz. Whose going to pay that out-of-pocket? What insurance if going to pay for that kind of "preventative" medication? I'm all for other options; but it seems many of these options will end up being too expensive to actually be used outside of a study where the kits or meds are provided for free.

argh! as usual with most studies and nearly any news article, I'm left with too many additional questions and not enough answers.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


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Offline Raf

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #81 on: July 29, 2012, 07:33:40 PM »
The more Dx tools, the merrier.
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Offline mecch

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #82 on: July 29, 2012, 08:49:04 PM »
I think it has good uses and bad uses. The research investigated it merits as a screening tool so HIV negative committed barebackers could try to stay negative while continuing to bareback.  So obviously it would be a good thing if the tool worked. One gets the impression here, with these research subjects, there isn't going to be any change to safesex practices, just change of partners. 

But the really odd two things are these;
1)  What leatherman says:  who is going to have the cash to pay for this method of cutting the risk for a commitment to thrill riding?? 
2)  The study is quite honest about the problem of the window period and isn't that EXACTLY the problem that nullifies how well this prevention method is going to work in the longerm, for the studied subjects, to continue avoiding HIV, by screening their random, annonymous partners, no doubt on the same hustle.  Is there or isn't there going to be constant supply of "window cases", making the rounds, infecting a few in that 1 month, until some evening, the daily testing says the gig was up.... 4 weeks ago. Ooops.


But again, I see good uses for this.  And hey, as a luxury product, I do agree that it should be on the market, that people with the cash should have a right to access this science.

Also for the subject pool "envisioned" in that rather skanky research, I don't think every gay guy is a dope, and plenty will EASILY understand the little glitch about the window period. 

Of and for the research subjects scene:  maybe there could be a cell phone app, grindr plugin, that could access the chain of contacts and spit out a six degrees chart of distance or closeness to recent infections of men within the social network, and compute the "window period" risk.     ;D
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 08:51:41 PM by mecch »
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Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #83 on: July 29, 2012, 09:24:46 PM »
Quote
Also for the subject pool "envisioned" in that rather skanky research, I don't think every gay guy is a dope, and plenty will EASILY understand the little glitch about the window period. 


I give you the depth and breadth of the internet's dating sites/apps and the search term "DDF" to rebut that assertion.

Also, AM I INFECTED, the Mos Eisley of AIDSMEDS.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline mecch

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #84 on: July 29, 2012, 09:34:43 PM »
Yeah we are in very muddy terrain.
But I always got the impression that a LOT of DDF characters are performing it with a wink, just to get laid, and not completely deluded that they are reliably "DDF" considering their sex choices. It seems to me 33% delusional, 33% dumb/ignorant, and 33% just playing sleazy semantics getting the sex they want.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #85 on: July 29, 2012, 10:21:30 PM »
Yeah we are in very muddy terrain.
But I always got the impression that a LOT of DDF characters are performing it with a wink, just to get laid, and not completely deluded that they are reliably "DDF" considering their sex choices. It seems to me 33% delusional, 33% dumb/ignorant, and 33% just playing sleazy semantics getting the sex they want.

That's a subset of the population on which I would dearly love to read a study. I could never conduct one myself, what with the ethical problems with bitch-slapping them all.

With a wink, of course.

 
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

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Offline Trish

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #86 on: August 01, 2012, 12:48:53 PM »
Although this home test kit is an option, I'm just wondering, most folks are afraid to buy condoms, are we to really believe they will be so comfortable purchasing an HIV test in public?  Someone they know might catch them buying it... Oh my!  LMFAO. Most people (poz or neg) that I know, complain about having to dole out a couple bucks for condoms. Instead, they go to clinics to get them for free, or wait for some kind of sexual health awareness workshop, or wherever.  Or, they just go without them & pray nothing happens.  Honestly, I think the home test will turn out to be a waste of precious dollars that could be used elsewhere.  I imagine seeing expired tests on the shelves before we know it.  IMO. 

And really, who will be able to afford doling out $40, $50, $60 a pop? 

Idk, only time will tell.
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Offline mecch

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #87 on: August 01, 2012, 05:47:51 PM »
Although this home test kit is an option, I'm just wondering, most folks are afraid to buy condoms, are we to really believe they will be so comfortable purchasing an HIV test in public?  Someone they know might catch them buying it... Oh my!  LMFAO.
Good point.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #88 on: August 01, 2012, 06:11:47 PM »
internet shopping!
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Offline leatherman

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #89 on: August 01, 2012, 06:12:18 PM »
And really, who will be able to afford doling out $40, $50, $60 a pop? 
although I totally agree with you concerning the issues about the costs associated with user-purchases of these tests, your hypothetical costs seem to be very exaggerated - especially when your lowest value is over double of what this report stated.  :D

Quote
In July, the Food and Drug Administration approved the first such test, the OraQuick In-Home Rapid HIV test, which, according to the manufacturer OraSure, is expected to be available over the counter this October at “slightly more” than $17.50.

I would also hope that enterprising ASOs and testing locations would be able to bulk-purchase the kits to freely distribute or to sell at a reduced price. ;)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


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Offline zach

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #90 on: August 01, 2012, 06:19:24 PM »
a positive test needs to be confirmed. something many people seem to misunderstand. with an at home rapid positive result, i can see alot of overreactions. don't get me wrong, i think its a great thing. but the idiots over on "am i" are a powder keg with this kind of fuel.
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #91 on: August 01, 2012, 08:02:29 PM »
I don't get it......

so many posts about how this won't work for SOME folks.  "too expensive", "too embarassed", "too anxiety ridden", on and on.........  So are we saying because some subset of folks won't, can't, shouldn't use this, then no one should have the option?

I mean, I know the "Am I..." forum is full of drama and I applaud those that take their time, energy, knowlegde and (above all) patience to work with them - quite frankly I find it heroic.  But public health policy should not be driven by that forum.

Mike
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Offline zach

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #92 on: August 02, 2012, 04:54:35 PM »
totally agree mike, i'm only pointing out an unintended consequence that i think is highly likely. some people are going to overreact to the results.
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #93 on: August 02, 2012, 05:34:02 PM »
totally agree mike, i'm only pointing out an unintended consequence that i think is highly likely. some people are going to overreact to the results.

Yep -- and some overreact to the results from clinics and doctor's offices.
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Offline gadawg1979

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #94 on: August 03, 2012, 01:08:23 AM »
As someone who is in a long term Neg/poz Relatiionship I am all for this.  We know the drill and know that we have to go through it every 4 to 6 months and it will make our lie easier to be able to wait 20 minutes in our living room than the waiting room of a clinic.  We know our risk and use protection.  For those of you that have a shame about buying condoms check out amazon
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Offline madbrain

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #95 on: August 03, 2012, 09:34:36 PM »
although I totally agree with you concerning the issues about the costs associated with user-purchases of these tests, your hypothetical costs seem to be very exaggerated - especially when your lowest value is over double of what this report stated.  :D

I would also hope that enterprising ASOs and testing locations would be able to bulk-purchase the kits to freely distribute or to sell at a reduced price. ;)

Here is another article that discusses the price :

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/story/2012-07-03/fda-approves-hiv-home-tests/56002548/1

"Orasure plans to launch the test in October, selling it through retailers like Walgreens, CVS and Walmart, as well as online pharmacies. Whereas the test marketed to health professionals costs about $17.50, Orasure expects the consumer version to sell for more. The company is not announcing a price yet, but said it would be less than $60. CEO Doug Michels said the additional cost will help pay for a toll-free call center to provide counseling and medical referrals to test users."

So it will be somewhere between $17.50 and $60 .

Offline madbrain

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #96 on: August 03, 2012, 09:39:02 PM »
I don't get it......

so many posts about how this won't work for SOME folks.  "too expensive", "too embarassed", "too anxiety ridden", on and on.........  So are we saying because some subset of folks won't, can't, shouldn't use this, then no one should have the option?

I mean, I know the "Am I..." forum is full of drama and I applaud those that take their time, energy, knowlegde and (above all) patience to work with them - quite frankly I find it heroic.  But public health policy should not be driven by that forum.

Mike

I agree that the more options we have for testing, the better. This is a very good development.

That doesn't mean there aren't some problems. Here is another significant one :

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/04/health/oraquick-at-home-hiv-test-wins-fda-approval.html

"Because the F.D.A. approved the home test only for people 17 and older, retail stores may ask customers to show ID, he said. The restriction is not for medical reasons, but because only a few subjects age 14 to 16 were tested, he said, “so that was the deal we worked out with the F.D.A.”

That seems quite stupid to restrict it this way. Is there any evidence the test does not work in 14 to 16 years old ?

It is known that many teenagers 14-16 engage in unprotected sex. There wouldn't be any teenage pregnancies if they didn't.  So they are also at risk for HIV.

Offline leatherman

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Re: Quick At-Home H.I.V. Test Wins Federal Approval
« Reply #97 on: August 03, 2012, 10:39:33 PM »
Here is another article that discusses the price :

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/story/2012-07-03/fda-approves-hiv-home-tests/56002548/1
it's heresy, I say, heresy! :D Using some other reference than poz.com!! The horror of it all!  :o  ;D

but this does lead to an interesting chain of thought:
would more people purchase them and use them more often at <$20?
or will they be priced out of the market at $60 and rarely used?

at $60 will only people with money and freaking out purchase the kits? (lucky you over in AII?)
will poor people involved in a lot of risk behavior never have access to them?

it would really be interesting to see some market research on price vs purchase
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


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