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Author Topic: HIV exposure.. On Pep  (Read 3214 times)

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Offline bladex79

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HIV exposure.. On Pep
« on: April 29, 2011, 08:43:11 AM »
While overseas in Philipines working I did a very stupid thing. I met a girl at a disco one night while drunk & took her to my hotel room.

We started having sex (I was wearing a condom) & fortunately I noticed that she was menstruating a little bit. Once I noticed this I immediately stopped, proceeded to the bathroom & took the condom off. She then performed oral on me without a condom. Once during the night & again during the morning.  In both accounts I cummed in her mouth.

Some more facts of the situation:

- Prior to going back to the hotel room we kissed ALOT (Probably 1 hour all up). I do not think I had any cuts or anything in my mouth or on my face during this time.
- Prior to her performing any oral on me (during the first time) she vomited up a bit in the bathroom because of too much alcohol.
- About 3 or so days prior I was still healing from a mild Herpes outbreak on the penis. I do not think I had any open sores or anything whatsoever during the event.

 MOST IMPORTANT. After everything that happened above & because while she was drunk I was given the strong impression she was extremely permiscuos through her comments I asked if she would be ok to get a HIV test. She insisted she was fine but netherless I insisted.  Her test result was Positive. The followup test will occur (Western Blot test) to confirm if the result is accurate.

After her blood tests I started freaking out. I googled, got lucky & stumbled across what is known as the PEP. When I saw this I immediately booked the next flight out of the country & headed back home to Australia. Within 36 hours I initiated the first course of the Truvada & Kaletra.  Note that the timeframe I calculated from  starts from when we got into the hotel room (not the kissing in the disco).

.
- I've read on the internet that if PEP is not administerdded in the first 24 hours its effectiveness is reduced considerably. Is this true?  

- My understanding is that with the generation 4 HIV tests the window period is reduced to 3-4 weeks. Will undertakeing PEP impair the accuracy of this test for me in anyway?  I plan to take a test at the 3rd, 4th & 12 week.


- I know that the Proviral DNA PCR test is suppose to give quite an accurate indication at 10 days post infection. I know PEP will effect this, but is it feasible to get this test done at 10 days post PEP for an fairly conclusive result?


- On top of this (Prior to the exposure) I have been coughing up Phlegm on a daily basis (for a few months). Not sure what the root cause is as I've had every test under the sun to resolve it.  This is not related to the exposure, but I do know my immune system wouldn't exactly have been in the best state during the exposure thus leading to more risk.   On top of this I have been feeling like sh*&#  last 4 days. I am in week 2 post exposure. I have been having heat flushes on the face (But body temperature is always around 36.8 - 37 degree celcius which constitutes normal), feeling disoriented (Spaced out) & feeling itchy all over. On top of this I still have my Phlegm issue but I don't care at all about that at the moment. Also have been having some night sweats.  I do take a Kaletra dose just before going to bed so not sure if that is doing something with the mild night sweats (hot to cold).


Paranoia is setting in. While I am quite confident the above constitutes a accurate breakdown of what happened I am always wondering what if.. What if I got some tiny bit of blood on me from her period (had an open cut on my foot from too much walking. Fortunately the bulk of the incident with the sex with condom etc happened in the morning when I was sober but just with a bit of a hangover.


Can someone please offer feedback. I am extremely anxious.  I am fearing that I can't have a family one day because of this


« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 09:14:29 AM by bladex79 »

Offline bladex79

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Re: Currently on PEP. Anxious as anything.
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2011, 08:54:03 AM »
On another note. Does Anyone here know where I can point the girl I met into the right direction for seeking help with her condition?   My understanding is that an entity known as the Global Fund gives people with HIV in Philipines free medication for there condition.

http://portfolio.theglobalfund.org/Country/Index/PHL

I was planning to go through the contacts on that site for Philipines till I hopefully get lucky and find the right person she needs to get in touch with.

If anybody knows a better source in Philipines please let me know. I will pass it on to her.

Frankly I don't think she fully comprehends the seriousness of her condition especially as she is quite healthy at the moment.


Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Currently on PEP. Anxious as anything.
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2011, 09:37:19 AM »
Why you are taking PEP is beyond me since nothing you are reporting has put you at risk for HIV transmission.

You used a condom for intercourse which is exactly what you are supposed to do. The only confirmed risks for the sexual transmission of HIV are unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse.

You didn't have a risk, there was no need for PEP and there is no need for HIV testing. Now what?
Andy Velez

Offline Ann

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Re: Currently on PEP. Anxious as anything.
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2011, 09:39:38 AM »
Blade,

You do NOT need to be on PEP. You have been told this elsewhere on the internet.

It does not matter that the woman is hiv positive. You did NOT have a risk for hiv infection. (All the risk assessments we give in this forum are based on the assumption that the other person is hiv positive.)

Kissing is not a risk. Not only is saliva not infectious, but it also contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect. It doesn't matter how long you kissed or how deeply you kissed. Kissing is NOT a risk. Not one person has ever been infected this way and you will not be the first.

Getting a blowjob is also not a risk for hiv infection for the same reason that kissing is not a risk. It doesn't matter that she threw up before blowing you - vomit is also not an infectious fluid.

However, you did put HER at risk for herpes. If you want a blowjob when you have a herpes outbreak, or even if it is recently healed, you need to put a condom on so you don't infect the person who is blowing you. Herpes is infectious when it is first coming on (before the blister appears, but when you can feel it starting), it's infectious when there's a blister present and it's still infectious when newly healed. Keep your herpes to yourself!!!

Protected intercourse is just that - protected. There have been long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one.

It does not matter that she was on her period. The condom still protected you. And don't fret about getting blood on your fingers when you took the condom off. That's not a risk either.

You have not had a risk. You don't even need to test over this incident and you certainly do NOT need PEP.

You can find Aids Service Organisations (ASOs) in the Philippines through the database at http://www.aidsmap.com/ - use the E-Atlas.

Ann
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 09:05:27 AM by Ann »
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline bladex79

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Re: Currently on PEP. Anxious as anything.
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2011, 06:24:56 AM »
Hi Ann & Andy

Thanyou for your reply.  I understand you probably see many messages with people who think they were at risk but weren't really & are just being paranoid.

The Doctor who I saw who prescribed me PEP said that she was of the opinion that I didn't need to take it but if it relieves some anxiety then she was ok to prescribe it. I insisted & so she did.

One thing I should also mention is the fact that I had a cut on my tongue whilst kissing. It was french kissing obviously. I know there is probably some theoretical riisk here as well as with the oral (Blowjob).

I am half way in my PEP & the side effects for me are horrific.  I can say that they are at least getting less very slowly but they are still horrific. I really feel for the people who have to take this toxic stuff for the rest of there lives. I feel ok in the morning & then once I have the Truvada table & 2 x Kaletra, about an hour later its like a hammer hits you in the face.  


I will ring my doctor tomorrow to reconsider taking the remaining 2 weeks worth. I am still scared that if I stop I am taking a risk. I know you probably think I am being stupid thinking like that. Thankyou for helping to put my mind at ease to some degree.
 
What frustrates me the most with HIV is the limited amount of money that spent in actually trying to find a cure compared to the medicines that are only controlling it.  I guess the big drug companies make more money this way. Is there any reputable  organization that is reaseraching for a cure that I can make a small donation to that people here would recommened?



« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 06:26:38 AM by bladex79 »

Offline Ann

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Re: Currently on PEP. Anxious as anything.
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2011, 07:57:32 AM »
Blade,

YOU HAVE NOT HAD A RISK!!!

It doesn't matter that you cut your tongue. Not only is saliva not infectious, but it also contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect.

You do not need PEP and we're not going to hold your hand while you take unnecessary medications.

If you're going to make a small donation anywhere, I suggest you donate to an Aids Service Organisation near you or better yet, in the country where your incident happened. (I already gave you info on how to find ASOs in the Philippines.) People living with hiv need help RIGHT NOW while we wait for a cure.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline bladex79

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Re: Currently on PEP. Anxious as anything.
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2011, 08:49:24 AM »
Now I am freaking out. I woke up this morning with a swollen lymph node the size of a pea just under my left ear.  I NEVER have had a swollen lymph node before. I am so scared right now. I need to speak to someone.

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Currently on PEP. Anxious as anything.
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2011, 09:04:19 AM »
Blade,

In all likelihood you HAVE had swollen lymph nodes at some point in your life but just didn't notice as you were not micro-examining your body like you are now. Keep your hands OFF your nodes. Touching them all the time to see if they're swollen can actually make them swell and keep them swollen. HANDS OFF!!!

Once again, you have NOT had a risk for hiv infection. You do not need PEP.

If you read the Welcome Thread before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Quote

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.


Please consider yourself warned!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline bladex79

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HIV exposure.. On Pep
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2012, 06:56:18 AM »
As I type this I am shaking in fear..
 
On Saturday morning I met a girl who worked in a bar in Cambodia. after a few drinks together I took her back to my hotel & we had sex. I used a condom throughout the intercourse, however, after I ejaculated & pulled out I noticed the condom broke. It must have broke near the end as when we changed positions I noticed it was intact each time.
Approximately 17 hours later after the incident she sends me an sms telling me she is HIV positive so I freaked out. I rushed to the biggest & best hospital I could find in Cambodia & at 19 & 1/2 hours initiated PEP treatment with the drugs Truvada & Kaletra (using Generic brands).

More information

- During the intercourse the foreplay consisted of alot of kissing. I have an ulcer in my mouth.. i asked if she has any ulcers or sores in her mouth & she said she has nothing.


- She has been taking the drug Nevilast -30 for last 4 months. She takes this tablet twice daily & each tablet contains Lamivudine USP 150mg, Stavudine USP 30mg & Nevirapine USP 200mg

- Today I went with her to get a blood test for CD4 count & her Viral load. I will get the CD4 test result back tomorrow & the Viral load will take about 7 days to get. 

- She looks fairly healthy just skinny. I know this means nothing overall.

- I am having difficulty keeping food down taken the medicine. So far the drugs have made me throw up once where i had to retake some tablets this morning. Have constant fatique & quite bad Diarrhea.. Reading other posts this seems to be normal..

Can anybody please offer some advise & if I am doing the right things here? I am so so scared... I am shaking over this.

Offline bladex79

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Re: HIV exposure.. On Pep
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2012, 06:59:33 AM »
Forget to add:
Even though she has no real visible signs of being sick (other than skinny which doesn't really mean much on its own) She said she does throw up easily.. I am not sure if that is to do with the medicine or her HIV...  Also, she gets very tired... I am worried she still has a high viral load after 4 months of medicine.. She did say she was alot more sick before she took the medicine.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 07:08:13 AM by bladex79 »

Offline Ann

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Re: HIV exposure.. On Pep
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2012, 08:33:41 AM »
Blade,

I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep everything in one thread. It doesn't matter how long it has been since you last posted in your thread or if the subject matter is different.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.



Given this woman is on hiv meds, she most likely has an undetectable viral load - or a very, very low one at the very least.

This means you really do not need PEP - you didn't really need it for this brief exposure anyway, regardless of her VL. This will be the second time you're taking PEP unnecessarily.

The brief unprotected intercourse was the ONLY risk you had and it is a risk very much on the low end of the scale. I've yet to see the insertive partner end up positive following a condom break - PEP or no PEP - and I do not expect you to be the first.

You should know by now that none of the other stuff you report, like kissing, are NOT risks for hiv infection.

One of the meds she's on - stavudine - is very old and is no longer used in developed nations because of the side effects. It's a very effective drug against hiv, it's just the side effects that are troublesome. I'm not surprised she doesn't feel well on that med. It doesn't mean it's not working though. It's still used in underdeveloped nations because it's cheap and it keeps people alive, despite the side effects.

As for you, a lot of people feel ill and throw up on Kaletra. It's also one of the older drugs and isn't used much in developed nations anymore (aside from for PEP) because there are more easily tolerated meds available. You should only be re-taking them if you throw up immediately after taking them and you can see the whole tablets in your vomit. Otherwise, you'll be overdosing and that will make you feel even worse.

It's up to you whether or not you continue with PEP, but you don't need it.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline bladex79

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Re: HIV exposure.. On Pep
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2012, 09:05:34 AM »
HI Ann,

Thankyou for your feedback. I have a few questions which I can't stop thinking about that I would really like your valuable insite on:

I have also read that Female to male infection is hard to get, particularly in a once off encounter. However, how does that explain the many guys in countries like Phillipines & Thailand walking around with it who are heterosexual?  There are many men out there who have HIV who are not gay & have never used needles for drug use.. I cannot understand the figures out there in relation to how hard HIV is to get when this is a fact.
 I am a stupid idiot to ever take ANY sort of risk after my first encounter quite along time ago.   But I believe this is a REAL risk unlike my first encounter. I had a condom break with a girl who is HIV positive. 

What i do know is that the condom likely broke as she was not wet & I have asked her this as well & she concurred on this. So I guess that means probably no fluid exchange hopefully.

Ann, I know I must come off as frustrating to you. But in this case I am really scared. I've been crying all day/night about this.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: HIV exposure.. On Pep
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2012, 09:53:41 AM »
Let's not get distracted by your conjectures about other "straight men out there who got infected," etc.

Just stick to your situation. You're talking about a single incident in which you had a condom on initially. That means you had that protection until it broke. So the exposure was a one-time and and relatively brief. Statistically we know that it is significantly easier to transmit HIV from male to female than the other way around.

So taking all of that together the odds are in your favor that you will test negative. You can do test initially at 6 weeks after the incident. If you get a negative at that point the strong likelihood is that you will continue to test negative for a conclusive result at 3 months.

Meantime do yourself a favor and focus on other matters in your life. It will really help you to pass the time more easily than you may imagine is possible.
Andy Velez

Offline bladex79

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Re: HIV exposure.. On Pep
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2012, 07:02:22 AM »
I just came across this study done:

http://www.emaxhealth.com/1020/53/32605/even-healed-genital-herpes-increases-hiv-risk.html

I have genital herpes.. I did not have any outbreak during the time of exposure, but according to this article it increases your chance of getting hiv 2-3 fold... I am worried even more after reading this..

Offline Ann

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Re: HIV exposure.. On Pep
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2012, 07:26:10 AM »
Blade,

Worry all you want - you are still unlikely to end up hiv positive over this incident.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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