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Author Topic: Eradication Therapy Question  (Read 3553 times)

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Offline Newguy

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  • Posts: 127
Eradication Therapy Question
« on: June 29, 2012, 08:56:12 PM »
Greetings everyone!

As a newly diagnosed HIV positive individual I cannot wait till I have this thing out of my body. I do believe it is possible now and in the near future therapy will be offered to eradicate the virus from the body. After all it is just a virus. But I do not think this strategy will be a simple one shot and you go home type strategy. Although I think this is possible, it will not happen anytime soon. I think eradication therapy will consist of intense therapy based on current ARV's and possibly a therapeutic vaccine or some other agent to target the provirus.

Here is the question/dilemma. I am gay and love the wild maze of adventure that comes with being gay. Of course not all gay men are like this but I am or at least I was. Since my diagnosis I have been celibate, trying to figure things out. I tested positive in Asia and a doctor over there said being infected with HIV or other STD's gives someone an opportunity to reexamine their behaviour. Behaviour change is hard but after this diagnosis it has forced me to question what being gay means to me. No doubt I have suffered deep mental health pain. It's not easy being homo and I accept I made choices that helped mask the pain only to end up with this. To be quite honest the diagnosis has not been that bad so far, and has forced me to dig a little deeper. And to my surprise, it ain't that bad! I have a point, I promise I am  getting to it!

So, when eradication therapy is available will this be offered to everyone who is infected with HIV? If it takes a year or two to successfully complete the treatment and you are deemed a re infection risk what is the point of eradicating it? These are serious ethical questions but I have had that deep primal desire to go out on a unsafe sex binge and have fought hard to temper these urges. My doctor always asks me about my sexual health, if I am using a condom or not.

Any thoughts about this?


Offline Rev. Moon

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  • Posts: 3,783
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: Eradication Therapy Question
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2012, 09:45:31 PM »
Aaah, the pink unicorn also known as "the cure."  I'm sorry my dear, but it ain't happening in the "near future" as you stated.  Will it ever happen?  Who knows.   

In the meantime you should not deprive yourself from a normal sex life.  Now, being horny is one thing, but having to control "urges" to go on "unsafe sex binges" as you put it sounds more like an addiction and that may need to be addressed.  This may be more helpful as you learn to live with HIV than any dreams, hopes, or speculations about "eradication."

Jusssayin. 

"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Newguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 127
Re: Eradication Therapy Question
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2012, 09:59:43 PM »
Hi Moon.

Thanks for the reply! Normal sex life? What is that? I have had a great sex life and it got me into trouble. Learning to life with HIV is a challenge for sure! So far it has been  relatively smooth but I anticipate it will get tougher as the virus progresses!

Why not dream, hope, speculate about eradication? Eradication is very possible if not already achieved. In a relatively VERY VERY VERY VERY short period of time, science has been responsible for stopping the virus to replicate. The next obvious step is target the provirus. Why do you see this as impossible? Syphilis BRUTALLY killed so many people for thousands for years. Blindness, madness you name it. And now, a simple injection in most cases and it is gone. What makes you think any virus stands a chance?

Offline Common_ground

  • Member
  • Posts: 288
Re: Eradication Therapy Question
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2012, 11:32:52 PM »
Aaah, the pink unicorn also known as "the cure."  I'm sorry my dear, but it ain't happening in the "near future" as you stated.  Will it ever happen?  Who knows.   

In the meantime you should not deprive yourself from a normal sex life.  Now, being horny is one thing, but having to control "urges" to go on "unsafe sex binges" as you put it sounds more like an addiction and that may need to be addressed.  This may be more helpful as you learn to live with HIV than any dreams, hopes, or speculations about "eradication."

Jusssayin.

I find your post and language quite disrespectful Rev. Dont get me wrong but do you already know
what the future, near or not, holds for any of us?

I dont think of a cure and try to accept my destiny and the way my life turned out to be. Not much
I can do about it anyway than to live each day trying my best.
2011 May - Neg.
2012 June CD4:205, 16% VL:2676 Start Truvada/Stocrin
2012 July  CD4:234, 18% VL:88
2012 Sep  CD4:238, 17% VL:UD
2013 Feb  CD4:257, 24% VL:UD -viramune/truvada
2013 May CD4:276, 26% VL:UD

Offline Raf

  • Member
  • Posts: 259
  • Bald by choice
Re: Eradication Therapy Question
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2012, 03:50:16 AM »
Maybe Rev's words may sound harsh, but he's actually right. Why we should constrain ourselves while waiting for a supposed "cure"? if you have solid evidence that there is one (that actually woks) in the making, please post it, but we've been hearing this since the epidemic started at the 80s, and I think we should not wait for an imaginary cure. Of course, one must have always hope, but we have to learn to live with this fucking virus.

I know how you are feeling, like you, my only sexual partner since my Dx is my right hand (it ask me to date every valentine, if not, not wanking XD), I decided to not have sex anymore, but it wasn't directly by the HIV (even though the catalyst was the Dx), it was because I don't wanna deal with disclosure pre-sex, risk of infecting someone else, and specially and mostly, because I don't want another STD, it's enough for me to have HIV, just to add syphilis, ghonorrea, HPV, hepatitis or any other to the mix. It's great to go without having to do periodic tests, or constant fear of catching any virus.

But not having sex just waiting for a cure? come on. It could eventually happen, but maybe we will be bone and dust when it does.
Dx: 05/14/2008
Latest HIV Meds combo I've been taking:

Kaletra + Combivir (since 05/16/2008 - today)

Offline spacebarsux

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,350
  • Survival of the Fittest
Re: Eradication Therapy Question
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2012, 05:42:20 AM »
I think it's OK to be hopeful about scientific developments but it's unhealthy to get hung up on something, that may or may not happen in the near future, and is most certainly out of your control.

What is in your hands however, is how you mentally and physically respond to your infection: this may entail minimizing high risk behaviour and/or attaching a new purpose to your life. These adjustments are not only a part of the process of adaptation to the new reality you're faced with, but can also go a long way in optimizing your physical and mental well-being that will undoubtedly hold you in good stead.

Best
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline Common_ground

  • Member
  • Posts: 288
Re: Eradication Therapy Question
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2012, 05:56:28 AM »
I agree. About the sex, lets go to town  ;D I dont think anyone should hold back on sex, just play it safe and fair for all parties involved. Be it with your own five friends or someone else.

 It was just the tone in the post I reacted upon, maybe the sustiva talking lol.

Personally, I just want to live to enjoy the small things like reading, ,eating,laughing with friends and have the privilege to be able to take care of myself, sex or no sex. Might sound trivial to some but hey thats just me :)

I already gave up on family and career so not much left now anyways lol
2011 May - Neg.
2012 June CD4:205, 16% VL:2676 Start Truvada/Stocrin
2012 July  CD4:234, 18% VL:88
2012 Sep  CD4:238, 17% VL:UD
2013 Feb  CD4:257, 24% VL:UD -viramune/truvada
2013 May CD4:276, 26% VL:UD

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Eradication Therapy Question
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2012, 08:22:15 AM »

I already gave up on family and career so not much left now anyways lol


Why? You're young, you started meds early and you have access to good overall treatment and care. Why give up on a career? You've still got a long healthy life ahead of you, provided of course that you look both ways before you cross the street. You need a career to finance your life.

As for family, am I correct in thinking you're talking about having children? There's no reason to give up on that either. Today plenty of poz/neg couples are having children "the old fashioned way" with neither the baby nor the neg partner getting infected. It's true!

You could also perhaps have children with a woman who is hiv positive. Provided she takes a suitable-for-pregnancy combo, there's very little chance of the baby being born poz. Slim to none, in fact. There's less than a 2% chance of it happening and there are far more things that could happen that have a much higher chance percentage, even in negative women during "normal" pregnancies.

If you give up on your dreams, you're letting the virus win and you may as well stop taking your meds and give up completely. That would be silly in this day and age.

I know you're only what - about six to eight weeks into your diagnosis? Things will get better, trust me. Whatever you do, do not give up on your dreams and plans for the future. Don't let hiv dictate your life. You control it (with meds), it does not control you.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,169
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Eradication Therapy Question
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2012, 08:44:44 AM »
Newguy, you are mixing apples and oranges in your discussion.
First of all, eradication therapy.  PLease don't count on this.  Please don't be thinking about cures or eradication as having ANYTHING to do with living successfully now and in the future as an HIV+ person.  If anything, HIV status should DIMINISH in importance as to who you are and what you do.

Secondly, your doctor was a bit homophobic.  Both sexes get HIV - male and female - and if its from a sexual risk, that can be homo sex or hetero sex. I dunno how you have interpreted your doctors comment but how about trying this:  a diagnosis might cause you to think about the choices you make for protected or unprotected sex. Might help someone discover to have confidence and trust in oneself and respect for oneself, and let other people have less power, if there was any kind of false trust involved in transmission.  That's about it.

I don't see why getting HIV should cause you much thinking about your sexual orientation.  Maybe thats is not what you are saying.  It gets a bit confusing, your essay. 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Newguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 127
Re: Eradication Therapy Question
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2012, 09:05:47 AM »
Thanks to all the responses!

First off to address a recurring topic that comes up in many of the replies, SEX! Before HIV I had all the sex in the world! It was fun, dirty, spontaneous and most of the time safe! I have no regrets with the wild adventures although I would rather not have HIV. I do not blame unsafe sex for catching HIV, I blame HIV itself for catching HIV.

Secondly in response to Mecch, my life has actually improved since my diagnosis. I have excelled in school and am thriving in a new career all while dealing with this diagnosis. My ID specialist commented on my ability to bounce back and how many people are devastated when they found out and for some it takes years to deal with it. That is fine, all people are different and they react to things differently. My doc is a homo himself so I do not think he is homophobic, but he made it clear I cannot engage in the same behaviour as in the past. Not because it was wrong, because he doesn't want me to get sick. And yes Mecch both sexes get HIV, I understand the virus is an equal opportunity invader, but this is not a debate about  HIV and the impact it has had on heterosexual and homosexual individuals.

In my original post I simply frame the thought WHEN HIV eradication therapy becomes available and in the next two decades we will see that. Should therapy take lets say a year of heavy intensification, how would one person's sexual behaviour influence the decision to initiate therapy. This is what I am trying to sort out.


Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,169
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Eradication Therapy Question
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2012, 09:26:53 AM »

 Since my diagnosis I have been celibate, trying to figure things out. I tested positive in Asia and a doctor over there said being infected with HIV or other STD's gives someone an opportunity to reexamine their behaviour. Behaviour change is hard but after this diagnosis it has forced me to question what being gay means to me. No doubt I have suffered deep mental health pain. It's not easy being homo and I accept I made choices that helped mask the pain only to end up with this.

Well I guess I completely misread these words.

As for you second scenario, I don't quite understand the question you are posing...

Why don't you answer it first, and they we can react to your hypothesis.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Newguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 127
Re: Eradication Therapy Question
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2012, 09:41:02 AM »
Thanks MECCH for your reply.

I suppose my second questions is this lets hypothetically assume that to rid the body of HIV and it would require heavy intensification therapy. Let's say this therapy lasts for 96 weeks. How would someone with a healthy voracious appetite for good old homo sex have to modify their sexual behaviour to succeed with treatment. I am not crazy for asking this question or even thinking it. What would be the point of this treatment to find yourself reinfected soon afterwards? I think this deserves some attention.


Now in all fairness there are MANY probably the majority of people (both homo/hetero)  hat have a good healthy voracious appetite for sex and they do not get themselves into trouble. I am simply not one of them and now I must confront this whole behaviour modification/re framing crap.

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,169
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Eradication Therapy Question
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2012, 09:50:16 AM »
How would someone with a healthy voracious appetite for good old homo sex have to modify their sexual behaviour to succeed with treatment. I am not crazy for asking this question or even thinking it. What would be the point of this treatment to find yourself reinfected soon afterwards? I think this deserves some attention.

In the hypothetical eradication therapy you are proposing, you seem to be worried because you are assuming the eradication leaves the formerly HIV+ person without protection for future HIV infections.  Therefore, obviously the HIV+ person would not want to bareback once his/her infection is eradicated.

But your hypothetical eradication therapy seems unlikely. If it is based on HAART therapy intensification, as you propose, I would rather expect it to leave the person with HIV antibodies but no more HIV virus.

Also, you do realize that being on HIV anti-virals usually means that you don't get new HIV infections... It is protective.

Anyway, its all conjecture.

A tangential concern is your penchant for sliding logic. It seems that you assume that "a healthy voracious appetite for good old homo sex" is incompatible with protected sex???

Right now, today in your sex life, are you having ambiguous feelings or difficulty deciding whether you want to have unprotected sex or protected sex?  Its seems to me this might be a tangible l issue for you, to resolve in the immediately.  And worry about the future cures or working cures when they arrive.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Common_ground

  • Member
  • Posts: 288
Re: Eradication Therapy Question
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2012, 05:14:49 AM »
Why? You're young, you started meds early and you have access to good overall treatment and care. Why give up on a career? You've still got a long healthy life ahead of you, provided of course that you look both ways before you cross the street. You need a career to finance your life.

As for family, am I correct in thinking you're talking about having children? There's no reason to give up on that either. Today plenty of poz/neg couples are having children "the old fashioned way" with neither the baby nor the neg partner getting infected. It's true!

You could also perhaps have children with a woman who is hiv positive. Provided she takes a suitable-for-pregnancy combo, there's very little chance of the baby being born poz. Slim to none, in fact. There's less than a 2% chance of it happening and there are far more things that could happen that have a much higher chance percentage, even in negative women during "normal" pregnancies.

If you give up on your dreams, you're letting the virus win and you may as well stop taking your meds and give up completely. That would be silly in this day and age.

I know you're only what - about six to eight weeks into your diagnosis? Things will get better, trust me. Whatever you do, do not give up on your dreams and plans for the future. Don't let hiv dictate your life. You control it (with meds), it does not control you.

You are right in everything you say Ann, im just so damn scared of dropping dead any day now ): despite the fact that ive never been ill and less than 1 year poz ( neg test last summer). Its amazing what a few words can do to your mind.( "You got HIV"). And yes I was talking about kids...

Thanks for your words of wisdom, youre an angel taking time writing me, a complete stranger, showing your care and compassion.

Hugs, Common
2011 May - Neg.
2012 June CD4:205, 16% VL:2676 Start Truvada/Stocrin
2012 July  CD4:234, 18% VL:88
2012 Sep  CD4:238, 17% VL:UD
2013 Feb  CD4:257, 24% VL:UD -viramune/truvada
2013 May CD4:276, 26% VL:UD

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Eradication Therapy Question
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2012, 10:15:27 AM »

Thanks for your words of wisdom, youre an angel taking time writing me, a complete stranger, showing your care and compassion.


You're welcome. That's what I here for. :)
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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