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Author Topic: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status  (Read 3777 times)

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Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« on: June 20, 2012, 12:34:08 PM »
We’d like to share the views of people living with and affected by HIV about criminal laws in a situation where a person living with HIV is accused of not disclosing her or his HIV status or of HIV exposure or transmission.

This survey is intended for:

  • People living with HIV/AIDS
  • Partners, spouses, and other family members and friends of people with HIV/AIDS
  • Community members affected by HIV/AIDS
  • Advocates and others who work in the field of HIV/AIDS

Your answers will help determine the information and advocacy needs regarding this important issue.

We will not share any identifying information about you or any other survey participant to anyone.

You must be 18 years old or older to participate.

Survey can be found here
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline osric

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2012, 12:44:29 PM »
Um, I love to fill out surveys, but who is "we" and who will the collected data be shared with?

I'd just like to know before I share my IP address and possibly personally identifying information with whomever it is that's collecting this data.

I'm not saying this to be obnoxious, just looking for more info.

Thanks,
Osric

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2012, 12:56:55 PM »
Um, I love to fill out surveys, but who is "we" and who will the collected data be shared with?

I'd just like to know before I share my IP address and possibly personally identifying information with whomever it is that's collecting this data.

I'm not saying this to be obnoxious, just looking for more info.

Thanks,
Osric

Taken directly from the site, after clicking through the age disclaimer page:

Project Title: National survey on attitudes of people infected and affected by HIV toward criminalization of HIV non-disclosure, exposure, and transmission.

Investigator: Laurel Sprague, Eastern Michigan University

Purpose: This survey is a research study designed to learn the opinions of people infected and affected by HIV about the use of criminal laws in a situation where a person living with HIV is accused of not disclosing her or his HIV status.

Duration: This survey will take approximately 20 minutes to complete.

Procedure: You will be asked to complete a questionnaire about your demographic information and your opinions and experiences related to HIV criminalization. Please note that the survey will ask your opinions about some very sensitive topics regarding sexual practices and your own HIV status. All responses are anonymous. You can skip any question that you prefer not to answer and you can exit the survey at any time.

Confidentiality: No identifying information will be collected. Your answers will be anonymous. Only a code number will identify your questionnaire responses. At no time will your name be associated with your responses to the questionnaires. All electronic data will be stored on a password-protected computer.

Expected Risks: There are no foreseeable risks to you by completing this survey as all results will be kept completely confidential. Please note that the survey includes questions about your opinions regarding HIV disclosure in a variety of situations, including different kinds of sexual or intimate encounters. You can skip any question that you prefer not to answer.

Expected Benefits: There will be no direct personal benefit to you, but your participation will contribute to our understanding of the opinions, experiences, and concerns of communities affected by HIV about the use of criminal laws to regulate the disclosure of someone’s HIV status.

Voluntary Participation: Participation in this study is voluntary. You may choose not to participate. If you do decide to participate, you can change your mind at any time and withdraw from the study without negative consequences.

Use of Research Results: Results will be presented in aggregate form only. No names or individually identifying information will be revealed. Results may be presented at research meetings and conferences and in scientific publications. A report of the results will be provided on-line at no cost. For a copy of the survey results, visit www.seroproject.com. Preliminary results will be posted in July 2012 with comprehensive results posted by December 2012.

Future Questions: If you have any questions concerning your participation in this study now or in the future, you can contact the principal investigator, Laurel Sprague, at 734.657.2569 or via e-mail at lspragu2@emich.edu.

This research protocol and informed consent document has been reviewed and approved by the Eastern Michigan University Human Subjects Review Committee for use from June 14, 2012, to June 14, 2015. If you have questions about the approval process, please contact the Director of the Graduate School (734.487.0042, human.subjects@emich.edu).
___________________________________________________________
Edited to add:

SERO is fighting HIV-related stigma, discrimination and criminalization, but to do so effectively, we need to understand a wide variety of perspectives on this issue. We don’t see this as one – having “sides” – meaning one is “for or against” criminalization, but one that is complex and will require the meaningful participation of people with HIV and key affected communities to find the best solutions.

Preliminary results from the survey will be posted here in late July 2012. The full results will be posted by the end of 2012.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 01:12:31 PM by Solo_LTSurvivor »
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2012, 04:20:54 PM »
Done.  Thank you for posting this, Solo.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline LM

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2012, 04:50:12 PM »
Done, thanks!

I hope people stand together against criminalization laws. They should end!

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2012, 05:15:40 AM »
Done!

The best question was: Do you disclose prior to French Kissing (with-tongue)? LOL
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline Ann

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2012, 11:06:01 AM »
I thought the craziest question was this one:

8. Should criminal charges be brought against a person living with HIV who does not disclose his HIV status when he:

leaves visible signs of probable HIV positive status, like wearing an AIDS t-shirt or leaving medications out in a visible place?


WTF?

Actually, this one was far worse...

is sexually assaulted or raped?

Are there really people out there who would want criminal charges brought against a poz RAPE victim? Really? "Um, excuse me Mr Rapist, but I'm poz." Sounds like a good way to get murdered!

For the record, I answered no to every situation in that question.

Thanks for the survey link, Mr Solo. Much appreciated. I stuck it on FB and I'll be telling other mates about it too.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Joe K

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2012, 11:13:08 AM »
Thanks Solo, survey completed.  Like Ann, I found a couple of the questions very strange, especially ones talking about disclosing your status when using a condom or a GLOVE?  A glove, really?  I also found the inclusion of survival sex to be very interesting and I will be curious to see the results surrounding that issue.

Joe
Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

Though you may be only one person in the entire world, to one person, you may be the entire world.

I wish to become half the man, that my dog thinks I am.

Remember me with simple acts of kindness and I will live forever.

Offline Buckmark

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2012, 11:29:22 AM »
Thanks Solo, survey completed.  Like Ann, I found a couple of the questions very strange, especially ones talking about disclosing your status when using a condom or a GLOVE?  A glove, really?  I also found the inclusion of survival sex to be very interesting and I will be curious to see the results surrounding that issue.

Joe

"Glove" is slang for condom in some locales.  I don't think they were referring to the gloves on hands -- e.g. those often used for fisting.  We can start another thread on the risks of HIV transmission from fisting.  ;)

I completed the survey.  Unfortunately, I suspect the results will favor criminalization, depending on the population of the survey-takers.

Henry
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2012, 12:04:56 PM »
Thanks to all who participated by taking the survey.  I took it as I was posting this thread, and like everyone has mentioned so far, I also found many of the questions to be quite strange.  I couldn't imagine someone who lives in a rural setting ever thinking about having to use a glove during fisting  ;)

And like Henry, I concur that many of the people who take it will favor criminalization, as it seems that some of the questions are skewed (although unintentionally) to generate negative thoughts.

Maybe the question writers didn't take that into consideration when putting it together?  Also since Sean Strub's organization is affiliated with it, no doubt Sean realizes that there are people out there who don't think there's anything wrong with locking up pozzies and throwing away the key.

PS: I watched We Were Here last night on PBS and was reminded of just how bad life used to be if one was poz when they spoke about defeating that Proposition in California twice which wanted to quarantine people with hiv.
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline wolfter

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2012, 12:43:53 PM »
Took the survey and actually discovered I was amused.  As one of the few here who leans towards the right, I found these questions ridiculous and it brought back memories of the ignorance surrounding this virus in the early days.

Wolfie
Judging someone does not define them, it defines you. 

True peace is not merely the absence of war, it is the presence of justice.

Offline denb45

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  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2012, 06:33:51 PM »
Well, I believe in full-disclosure of my HIV+ status, I always have ( if I'm gonna do the deed or glove up or not) and I thought it was poorly worded, but never-the-less, I took the survey, I hope it helps, but I kinda doubt it tho....
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Mrmojorisin

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2012, 08:34:27 PM »
Took the survey and got to ask, what is "survival sex"?
Started Meds On 5/1/2012 Norvair, Truvada, Prezista, and Bactrim

4/17/2012--CD4 83/ VL 353,000  7.0%
5/15/2012--CD4 218/ VL 4,970    14.1%
6/27/2012--CD4 146/ VL 420      6.1%
10/11/2012-CD4-223/ VL-62       9.5%
2/14/2013--CD4-215/ VL-119      13.6%
7/3/2013---CD4-256/ VL-UD       18.0%
10/18/2013 CD4-223/ VL-UD       22.2%
01/23/2014-CD4-381/VL-UD       25.3%

"arrrrhhhhh ahhrrhhhhh aaaarrhhh"- Chewbacca

Offline denb45

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2012, 08:46:40 PM »
Survival sex is a form of prostitution, usually done to get food, a place to stay the night, and most homeless teens will fall prey to this in a urban large City setting...
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Jeff G

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2012, 10:51:23 PM »
I took the survey ,  I had to read many of the questions over because like Ann pointed out about the rape question I couldn't believe I actually read the question right the first time . 

Online tednlou2

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2012, 12:48:17 AM »
Took the survey.  It did make me question how I come to my opinions of this issue, when I answer yes in one situation, but no in another.  The question about whether someone who says they intend to infect someone and carries out risky behavior to do so, had me questioning myself all over again.   

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2012, 01:36:18 AM »
Took the survey.  It did make me question how I come to my opinions of this issue, when I answer yes in one situation, but no in another.  The question about whether someone who says they intend to infect someone and carries out risky behavior to do so, had me questioning myself all over again.   

Curious as to how often this has happened to you?

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Online tednlou2

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2012, 02:05:55 AM »
Curious as to how often this has happened to you?

How often what has happened to me? 

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2012, 02:15:14 AM »
How often what has happened to me? 

Well I always hear about people who threaten to, or brag about infecting a lot of people. I have been positive since 1993 and I've never had a friend or acquaintance ever mention doing, or think about doing such a thing. I've read anecdotal reports online, you know, friends who have friends and such. And of course there are the bugchaser sites and all.

I've just never experienced it myself, and was wondering if that's a thing I've simply been lucky enough (or picky enough in choice of friends, or agoraphobic enough) to miss.

I wonder if it isn't much like a Dirty Sanchez or a donkey punch. You can all look it up and see what it means, but I will be damned if I can find real life people who have experienced it. Not saying that no one has, of course, or even that only one or two people have. Just... I am not convinced it's a thing in the vast majority of society.

Maybe drug and alcohol abuse plays a role in that sort of thinking? That sort of weird societal vengeance? I dunno.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Online tednlou2

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2012, 03:01:26 AM »
Well I always hear about people who threaten to, or brag about infecting a lot of people. I have been positive since 1993 and I've never had a friend or acquaintance ever mention doing, or think about doing such a thing. I've read anecdotal reports online, you know, friends who have friends and such. And of course there are the bugchaser sites and all.

I've just never experienced it myself, and was wondering if that's a thing I've simply been lucky enough (or picky enough in choice of friends, or agoraphobic enough) to miss.

I wonder if it isn't much like a Dirty Sanchez or a donkey punch. You can all look it up and see what it means, but I will be damned if I can find real life people who have experienced it. Not saying that no one has, of course, or even that only one or two people have. Just... I am not convinced it's a thing in the vast majority of society.

Maybe drug and alcohol abuse plays a role in that sort of thinking? That sort of weird societal vengeance? I dunno.

I've never heard, personally, anyone say they wanted to, were going to, or did that.  I've heard the stories, rumors, and I'm sure just totally made up shit, so the person has something to gossip about.  I know there are sociopaths out there, but I can't imagine it happens that often.     

Offline Ann

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2012, 08:45:52 AM »
Took the survey and got to ask, what is "survival sex"?

Survival sex is a form of prostitution, usually done to get food, a place to stay the night, and most homeless teens will fall prey to this in a urban large City setting...

Survival sex can also refer to a situation where a person (usually a woman) is in an abusive or unfaithful relationship that they would like to get out of, if only they had the financial means.

They continue to have sex with the abusive/unfaithful partner to avoid being left or kicked out without means of supporting themselves. This can happen in any relationship where there is financial dependency, but is more common in women with small children.

They know or suspect their partner is not being faithful, but they cannot request condom usage for fear of violence and they cannot refuse sex for fear of abandonment and destitution. Particularly when children are involved, many women will put up with the situation - and the sex - to survive.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline denb45

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2012, 09:07:05 AM »

Survival sex can also refer to a situation where Gay men are in a abusive or unfaithful relationship with another man that they would like to get out of, if only they had the financial means. this happens across
the board, it's not limited to just woman......just saying  ;)


"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Ann

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2012, 10:13:01 AM »
Survival sex can also refer to a situation where Gay men are in a abusive or unfaithful relationship with another man that they would like to get out of, if only they had the financial means. this happens across
the board, it's not limited to just woman......just saying  ;)

I said that already.

Survival sex can also refer to a situation where a person (usually a woman) is in an abusive or unfaithful relationship that they would like to get out of, if only they had the financial means.

They continue to have sex with the abusive/unfaithful partner to avoid being left or kicked out without means of supporting themselves. This can happen in any relationship where there is financial dependency, but is more common in women with small children.

They know or suspect their partner is not being faithful, but they cannot request condom usage for fear of violence and they cannot refuse sex for fear of abandonment and destitution. Particularly when children are involved, many women will put up with the situation - and the sex - to survive.


A person can mean anyone, men, women, gay, straight or any other description - and I did say any relationship which again can mean any combination of men, women, gay, straight or whatever.

However, it is a more common occurrence for women - particularly women with children - but I never said it was a phenomenon limited to women.

Just sayin'.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2012, 11:22:18 AM »
Somebody needs a diploma 'cause they just got schooled.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Ann

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2012, 09:33:16 AM »
::BUMP::

One of the authors of this study got in touch with us to ask if we could help them to get more women taking part in the study. Here's what she wrote:

Dear all,

For those who don't know me, my name is Laurel Sprague and I am the Regional Coordinator for the North American affiliate of The Global Network of People Living with HIV (GNP+NA). I am writing to ask for your help in recruiting women to participate in an on-line survey about HIV and the use of the criminal law. This is the largest and most comprehe nsive survey of its kind ever done in the United States and it is truly a grassroots effort. Sean Strub and I (with The Sero Project) have worked closely to create and implement the survey and we received a tremendous amount of community input, largely from other people living with HIV, into the questions that are asked in the survey.

I am really pleased about the number of people who have completed the survey so far (over 2500). However, only 18% of respondents have identified themselves as women. Because women's experiences of HIV and the criminal law may be quite different from men's, it is tremendously important to me to do everything I can to make sure that enough women's voices are included. If enough women respond, I will be able to break the survey results down by gender to see if there are meaningful differences (and it looks already like there will be differences).

Would you consider taking the survey and/or forwarding it to any groups or people in your address book who might be interested in adding their experiences and opinions to this survey? We want as many people as possible from all groups to be involved, but are particularly looking for women respondents.

The survey has been designed primarily for respondents in the U.S.(or from the U.S. living outside the country) who are people living with or otherwise affected by HIV - including key populations, family members, people who work in the field, affected communities, and people who just simply care. If you are not from the U.S., you are still welcome to fill out the survey. There is a place where you can indicate your country.

Here is the link to the survey:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/HIVandtheCriminalLaw

With great appreciation for your time and warmest regards,
Laurel

Lecturer, Eastern Michigan University
Regional Coordinator, GNP+NA
The Global Network of People Living with HIV, North America
Ann Arbor, Michigan USA


I also posted about this in the Women's forum, but thought I'd post it here too. If any of you know of some women who may want to take part, please give them the survey's URL which is...

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/HIVandtheCriminalLaw

... just in case you missed it. :)

Thank you in advance to anyone who takes the time to not only take the survey, but who also forwards the information on to women that you may know.

Women's voices need to be heard too!

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Rockin

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2012, 12:44:25 PM »
I've never heard, personally, anyone say they wanted to, were going to, or did that.  I've heard the stories, rumors, and I'm sure just totally made up shit, so the person has something to gossip about.  I know there are sociopaths out there, but I can't imagine it happens that often.   

To be honest, an occasional hook-up of mine said he knows a guy who has HIV and claims to have bareback sex all around around and not tell guys of his status...and he does this on purpose.

Kind of like "Well if I'm going down I'll take all of you with me". Pretty scary thought indeed and the reason why there are some pretty harsh laws regarding this in some countries.

People are the worse.

Online drewm

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2012, 01:02:02 PM »
To be honest, an occasional hook-up of mine said he knows a guy who has HIV and claims to have bareback sex all around around and not tell guys of his status...and he does this on purpose.

Kind of like "Well if I'm going down I'll take all of you with me". Pretty scary thought indeed and the reason why there are some pretty harsh laws regarding this in some countries.

People are the worse.

There are also those who will seek out POZ partners with the hope of becoming POZ. I have never understood this but I know it's true because I have been approached.
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Offline Rockin

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2012, 01:16:11 PM »
There are also those who will seek out POZ partners with the hope of becoming POZ. I have never understood this but I know it's true because I have been approached.

Well you know...there are people out there who are eating people's faces off and there are people out there who lock a little girl in their basement and rape her constantly for 10 years.

And, closer to us, there was this "wherehope" (is that it Ann?) guy who posted many times here about how suicidal he was for having HIV...and he doesn't even have it!!


Offline Grasshopper

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2012, 02:17:34 PM »
To be honest, an occasional hook-up of mine said he knows a guy who has HIV and claims to have bareback sex all around around and not tell guys of his status...and he does this on purpose.

Kind of like "Well if I'm going down I'll take all of you with me". Pretty scary thought indeed and the reason why there are some pretty harsh laws regarding this in some countries.

People are the worse.

Who says he's "going down" ?
Perhaps he's on meds with VL undetectable, and is (over)confident that he's no longer able pass on the virus ?
Intent to cause harm ?.....mmmmmm.....  farfetched ?!
Naive ? likely  (conveniently omitting the prerequisite conditions) !!

Gossips like this perpetuates the "shame and stigma" , you mentioned earlier in another thread.

 ;)

Offline Ann

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2012, 02:33:03 PM »
To be honest, an occasional hook-up of mine said he knows a guy who has HIV and claims to have bareback sex all around around and not tell guys of his status...and he does this on purpose.


It takes two to bareback. Why aren't his partners insisting on condoms? His sex partners are responsible for their own health, unless he's holding people down and raping them.
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2012, 02:42:11 PM »

Gossips like this perpetuates the "shame and stigma" , you mentioned earlier in another thread.


This.

Explain, Rockin, how emphasizing HIv as "no big deal" eliminates stigma, when it seems apparent that this guy (whose existence AND claims remain unproven) is following precisely that tact.

Certainly you think HIV is on some level a "big deal" if indeed the claimed actions of this gentleman can provide such salacious fruit.



"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

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Offline Rockin

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2012, 05:12:08 PM »
This.

Explain, Rockin, how emphasizing HIv as "no big deal" eliminates stigma, when it seems apparent that this guy (whose existence AND claims remain unproven) is following precisely that tact.

Certainly you think HIV is on some level a "big deal" if indeed the claimed actions of this gentleman can provide such salacious fruit.

Yeah forget it. I dont even know the guy, its just a rumour...I just meant to say that all it takes is one psycopath for people to run and get their torches and pitchforks.  I understand why these laws were created...most of them are poorly written though.

Offline Joe K

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2012, 08:03:36 PM »
Yeah forget it. I dont even know the guy, its just a rumour...I just meant to say that all it takes is one psycopath for people to run and get their torches and pitchforks.  I understand why these laws were created...most of them are poorly written though.

You might want to read the threads on HIV and persecution under these laws, because most of us don't understand why HIV has been singled out for criminal prosecution.  You really need to read these laws, so you can grasp their full impact, before you agree or claim to understand why they were created.

Joe
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I wish to become half the man, that my dog thinks I am.

Remember me with simple acts of kindness and I will live forever.

Offline Rockin

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2012, 04:52:24 PM »
You might want to read the threads on HIV and persecution under these laws, because most of us don't understand why HIV has been singled out for criminal prosecution.  You really need to read these laws, so you can grasp their full impact, before you agree or claim to understand why they were created.

Joe

Even If I read them kill, and disagree with them, they're not going away are they? As long as there are nuts out there will be laws like this. And HIV has been singled out because well...is there any other STD as deadly as this? If cancer was contagious you can bet there would also be laws about it.

Offline bocker3

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2012, 06:11:16 PM »
Even If I read them kill, and disagree with them, they're not going away are they? As long as there are nuts out there will be laws like this. And HIV has been singled out because well...is there any other STD as deadly as this? If cancer was contagious you can bet there would also be laws about it.

Well -- if you DID read those threads, you'd have your answer.

Where are the laws for influenza?  Thousands die each year, yet no one gets prosecuted.  They could have stayed home and kept that VIRUS to themselves, but they didn't.  It is NO different than HIV -- except for the fact that it is far easier to catch the flu virus.

Oh.......  cancer CAN be contagious -- ever hear of HPV?  It is a cause of cervical and anal cancer -- and perhaps others too.  Now you must try another argument.

Mike
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Offline jkinatl2

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2012, 06:42:23 PM »
It must be me, but when I see an injustice, or a law with which I vehemently disagree and find personally harmful. I tend to speak out about it and take what action I can to see it overturned.

So yes, to the degree that any/all of us can do something about it, I suggest that these laws ARE going to go away.



"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline Ann

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2012, 10:54:35 AM »

And HIV has been singled out because well...is there any other STD as deadly as this?


I can think of two that kill - HPV and untreated syphilis.

And what Mike said about 'flu.


It must be me, but when I see an injustice, or a law with which I vehemently disagree and find personally harmful. I tend to speak out about it and take what action I can to see it overturned.

So yes, to the degree that any/all of us can do something about it, I suggest that these laws ARE going to go away.


**LIKE**
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Rockin

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2012, 11:04:07 AM »
Well -- if you DID read those threads, you'd have your answer.

Where are the laws for influenza?  Thousands die each year, yet no one gets prosecuted.  They could have stayed home and kept that VIRUS to themselves, but they didn't.  It is NO different than HIV -- except for the fact that it is far easier to catch the flu virus.

Oh.......  cancer CAN be contagious -- ever hear of HPV?  It is a cause of cervical and anal cancer -- and perhaps others too.  Now you must try another argument.

Mike

Oh bocker cmon...how many people die from HPV, compared to HIV? And there is also a vaccine now, its a very different beast. I dated two guys who had anal HPV, they burned the warts, took some meds and are fine now.

The UK law regarding HIV infection is very well written, as opposed to the one from Florida, from my understading. In the UK you cant be considered a criminal if you used protection. In Florida it doesn't matter.  Right guys, or am I talking crazy?

And people still feel scared shitless of HIV. I personally blame some doctors for using their "scare tactics" about it.

So yeah, I understand the need for these laws, unfortunate as it may be.

Online drewm

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2012, 11:13:45 AM »
Laws that are "fear based" generally make for bad public policy. In the U.S. HIV disclosure laws, some states have taken a more common sense approach whereas others have created horrible laws based largely on fear and ignorance.
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Offline leatherman

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2012, 12:08:22 PM »
As long as there are nuts out there will be laws like this.
actually, I don't believe I've ever heard of a case of a "nut", a "typhoid mary" sort of person, spreading HIV on purpose. Do you have a link to a real case*, or is this just conjecture on your part? There are so many myths - and stigma - surrounding HIV that just aren't true. (*there really needs to be way more than 1 case anyway to make this a problem of statistical importance to be worthy of worrying about or crafting laws to help prevent.)

Sadly, the people who are actually spreading HIV are the approx 20% who have never even been tested and don't even know they are positive. If those people don't get tested because of fear of these disclosure laws then these laws are actually counterproductive to solving the problem they claim to be designed to combat. Surely there's no "need" for laws that are actually making the HIV infection rate problem worse. ::)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


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There's a pain goes on and on.
Empty chairs at empty tables
Where my friends will meet no more.

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Offline bocker3

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2012, 04:31:59 PM »
Oh bocker cmon...how many people die from HPV, compared to HIV? And there is also a vaccine now, its a very different beast. I dated two guys who had anal HPV, they burned the warts, took some meds and are fine now.

So yeah, I understand the need for these laws, unfortunate as it may be.

It isn't different -- they are BOTH VIRUSes -- (I notice you ignored the influenza piece).
And remember these laws don't require death -- hell, they don't even require transmission to occur.  Just the fact that you have this virus is enough to prosecute you.  There are plenty of viruses that cause disease and death that are far easier to pass on than HIV is, yet not a one of them has laws criminalizing them.

So you may have an opinion that say these laws are needed -- you are entitled to that, even if I disagree.

However, if you say you "understand the need" then you are speaking from a place of ignorance, not understanding.  If these laws are needed, then so is a law that allows me to jail the dumb asses who come to work with the flu (thousands of folks die of influenza in the USA in a typical year). 
With HIV -- I chose to bareback with someone -- it was MY CHOICE -- IT WAS MY FAULT.  When someone gets the flu, it is because someone else made a choice to go out in public.  MY CHOICE should not lead to jail time for someone else.

Mike

P.S. -- according to the CDC - over 4,000 women die in the US each year due to cervical cancer -- that is how one group of people who "die from HPV".
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Offline Joe K

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2012, 09:09:24 PM »
Even If I read them kill, and disagree with them, they're not going away are they? As long as there are nuts out there will be laws like this. And HIV has been singled out because well...is there any other STD as deadly as this? If cancer was contagious you can bet there would also be laws about it.

It's not the lethality of HIV that is the issue, it's that it is a virus, such as the others mentioned, which are much easier to contract, yet there are no laws against their transmission.  It seems you may think in black and white and cannot grasp the idea of making criminals out of two consenting adults.  The question is not why are their laws against HIV transmission.  The question is why are there laws against transmission of HIV only?

You still have a lot to learn and if you want to be taken seriously, you need to present a sound argument and not just parrot talking points.  These are complicated issues and your dismissing others views does nothing to make your case.

Joe
Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

Though you may be only one person in the entire world, to one person, you may be the entire world.

I wish to become half the man, that my dog thinks I am.

Remember me with simple acts of kindness and I will live forever.

Online drewm

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2012, 09:17:24 PM »
It's not the lethality of HIV that is the issue, it's that it is a virus, such as the others mentioned, which are much easier to contract, yet there are no laws against their transmission.  It seems you may think in black and white and cannot grasp the idea of making criminals out of two consenting adults.  The question is not why are their laws against HIV transmission.  The question is why are there laws against transmission of HIV only?

You still have a lot to learn and if you want to be taken seriously, you need to present a sound argument and not just parrot talking points.  These are complicated issues and your dismissing others views does nothing to make your case.

Joe


Well said Joe!  ;)
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Offline Ann

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Re: SURVEY: Criminal Laws Based on HIV Status
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2012, 08:57:40 AM »

P.S. -- according to the CDC - over 4,000 women die in the US each year due to cervical cancer -- that is how one group of people who "die from HPV".


Preach, brother Mike!

Globally speaking:

Cancer causing viral infections such as HBV/HCV* and HPV are responsible for up to 20% of cancer deaths in low- and middle-income countries.

cervical cancer (275 000 deaths)
(source)

*hbv and hcv - hep B & C - can cause liver cancer.

In the UK:


« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 09:02:31 AM by Ann »
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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