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Author Topic: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.  (Read 6575 times)

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Offline whatstheodds

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I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« on: June 09, 2012, 11:59:22 AM »
So I can't seem to find an answer anywhere else online. I am one of the lucky ones I was infected from a single exposure (she didn't know) and in the 18 months since I've come to terms that of what I have but I can't forgive myself for making that one mistake. I'm a 25 year old I was able to battle thru and get my degree while struggling to cope and now I'm going back for my Masters.

The problem lies in the fact that I don't know how to date I miss affection I miss having someone but I can't forgive myself that I lost the chance to be normal to be life my friends (who are all getting married and having families) while I'm stuck going on dates with chicks and then having to tell them my status and being looked at in disgust even though I'm a good guy. It's frustrating it keeps me up at night and I've looked into dating poz but the results around me are not my type at all.

The outlook of being alone for a long time drives me mad it's been 18 months since I've kissed or had sex beyond a few hugs I've been absent of human contact and it just leaves me feeling like I no longer belong in this world.....

Offline mecch

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2012, 12:38:48 PM »
Hmmm.  You have to learn to adjust to the new normal which is you as HIV+ and for the rest of your life.   Yes there is a lot of rejection and bias out there, but what can you do about it? Let it defeat you?  You got HIV in a relatively good moment as the treatment is so good. Also, early detection.
You can't let "one mistake" haunt you forever. Even if that one mistake does mark you forever because you got HIV.   I have made some MAJOR mistakes in my life but can't think of any one mistake that has destroyed my present and my future.  Yes, major mistakes take a while to get over, but you have to get over them.  You are highly educated and ambitious so I assume you are smart enough to know this.

Although, sometimes, people your age, still haven't come across a big mistake that has to be overcome.  But you have.  Really, you can't change the past.  Just make the best of today and the future and take advantage of your strengths.  Count your blessings.. You have your health.  Your looks probably. Your education. Your youth.

As for the dating, well, all I can say is that when I was your age I fell in love with a guy who turned out to be HIV+ and I was negative and in those days, you pretty much died of HIV, but I didn't reject him. 

Nowadays, there are plenty of sero-discordant couples around, hetero and homo.  Yes, your pool of available women has shrunk because some will reject you.  But really, that is their problem, and you know what, do you really want to be with someone who is so SMALL minded? No. 

Being HIV+ - does have some rather perverse advantages.  Lots of people might be afraid of you but then you do quickly discover the genuinely open minded people, the strong ones, not stupid and not ruled by fear and ignorance.

When you meet the wise woman who loves you for who you are, you can get married and have a family.  And know that its not a light commitment, contingent of this or that criteria.  All the women who reject you are thinking shallowly about criteria... You can't change shallow people.  You don't want that either.  Marriage is for better or worse.  You'll start off with a woman who is in a better mindset for the long haul.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 12:48:33 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Buckmark

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2012, 07:27:30 PM »
So I can't seem to find an answer anywhere else online. I am one of the lucky ones I was infected from a single exposure (she didn't know) and in the 18 months since I've come to terms that of what I have but I can't forgive myself for making that one mistake.

Dear, we were all infected from a single exposure.  So many here on these forums alone classify themselves into the "but I only had unsafe sex one time" category.  It doesn't matter.  People who are promiscuous don't deserve HIV, anymore than someone who has sex only on February 29th. 

I point this out not because I sense you judging others, but more because I see this is where you start judging yourself. 

Quote
I'm a 25 year old I was able to battle thru and get my degree while struggling to cope and now I'm going back for my Masters.

Good for you -- keep up with your education!

Quote
The problem lies in the fact that I don't know how to date I miss affection I miss having someone but I can't forgive myself that I lost the chance to be normal to be life my friends (who are all getting married and having families) while I'm stuck going on dates with chicks and then having to tell them my status and being looked at in disgust even though I'm a good guy. It's frustrating it keeps me up at night and I've looked into dating poz but the results around me are not my type at all.

You're right -- you need to forgive yourself.  You need to accept that you have HIV, and not see yourself as damaged or unworthy.  To accept yourself as an HIV+ person you have to accept others with HIV.   No matter what a person's sexual orientation or habits, religious affiliation or political views, in the end we all have the same HIV virus.  How you feel about others who are HIV+ is a good reflection on how you feel about yourself being HIV+.

Having HIV is tough row to hoe.  But you can do it -- if you work at it.  Your life may not be following the path you had anticipated, but this is the case for many people, due to a whole variety of reasons that cannot be anticipated.  But that doesn't mean your life cannot be fulfilling.  If you are not seeing a therapist already, I highly recommend it, as they can help you sort out your feelings and actions. 


Quote
The outlook of being alone for a long time drives me mad it's been 18 months since I've kissed or had sex beyond a few hugs I've been absent of human contact and it just leaves me feeling like I no longer belong in this world.....

It doesn't have to be like this, although i can really relate to feeling of not belonging.  Once you start to feel isolated, it's usually not too many steps away from becoming depressed.  Finding an HIV support group could help you feel not so isolated.  Coming to these forums can also help -- you'll find some pretty amazing people here.

Regards,

Henry

"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline whatstheodds

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2012, 08:41:25 PM »
I was depressed prior to getting infected and the reason was because I was lonely so I had sex with someone I met to fill that need of affection and that's how I got infected so I'm still depressed and the fact that I'm isolated doesn't help and have I thought about suicide? Yes, have I thought how to do it to make it look like an accident? Yes. And in all honesty if I am alive in 10 years I'll be shocked.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2012, 11:11:40 PM »
I was depressed prior to getting infected and the reason was because I was lonely so I had sex with someone I met to fill that need of affection and that's how I got infected so I'm still depressed and the fact that I'm isolated doesn't help and have I thought about suicide? Yes, have I thought how to do it to make it look like an accident? Yes. And in all honesty if I am alive in 10 years I'll be shocked.

Are you seeing a counselor to discuss this underlying depression? Seems like that's endangering your health far more than HIV.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline whatstheodds

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2012, 11:37:00 PM »
Yea well I ran out of sessions at my college so I don't have anything other then the Wellbutrin I'm waiting to take full effect. I don't have a job or insurance so I just hope this stripes me of emotions and then I'm good.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2012, 01:49:54 AM »
Yea well I ran out of sessions at my college so I don't have anything other then the Wellbutrin I'm waiting to take full effect. I don't have a job or insurance so I just hope this stripes me of emotions and then I'm good.

Wellbutrin will *not* strip you of emotions. As a matter of fact, in people with anxiety disorders it can make anxiety worse. Any school that disallows talk therapy while dispensing psychotropic antidepressants is unethical in the extreme.

You might have to look hard, but you are likely to find a local, city/state/federally funded counseling service in your city (or the city you happen to live in) that will provide counseling on a sliding scale - even free. You need to go to your counseling center and explain your situation and demand a referral. If they have a smidgen of ethical responsibility they will have local counseling resources on speed dial.

Don't be afraid to demand the help you deserve. NO ONE ought to be on psychotropic drug therapy without the option for talk therapy. It's absolutely unconscionable.


"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2012, 06:10:48 AM »
Yo, the "Glass is Half Full."  You will not be alone for the rest of your life, you will find true love and happiness, and life is beautiful.   DOT DOT DOT...   :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

“Neither look forward where there is doubt nor backward where there is regret. Look inward and ask not if there is anything o

Offline mecch

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2012, 08:30:14 AM »
Why are you going back for your masters, if you have to deal with the shock of being HIV+, the depression, the suicide feelings, etc.?  Is this a good idea?  Are you getting scholarships for that masters???  Not going into debt?

Is it the economy - not sure you can get a job now?

Tell me more.  There's a lot going on, but you are making kinda violent little statements in run on, dramatic sentences without much context. Which draws me in to listen, but I do kind of want to hear more. 

School in fact can be a comforting place, when we are good at the studies and the cost isn't breaking our futures.  Plus there is the student insurance, etc etc. 

But eventually you'll need to face the big world and figure out things like - how do I get the medical and mental health treatment I need.  How do I earn my living. Make friends.  Make my adult life.  Etc.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline whatstheodds

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2012, 07:43:47 PM »
Wellbutrin will *not* strip you of emotions. As a matter of fact, in people with anxiety disorders it can make anxiety worse. Any school that disallows talk therapy while dispensing psychotropic antidepressants is unethical in the extreme.

You might have to look hard, but you are likely to find a local, city/state/federally funded counseling service in your city (or the city you happen to live in) that will provide counseling on a sliding scale - even free. You need to go to your counseling center and explain your situation and demand a referral. If they have a smidgen of ethical responsibility they will have local counseling resources on speed dial.

Don't be afraid to demand the help you deserve. NO ONE ought to be on psychotropic drug therapy without the option for talk therapy. It's absolutely unconscionable.
I was on Lexapro for over a year until symptoms I had since the start were connected to it (memory loss, confusion, easily distracted) and I need something to keep me calm and somewhat sane. I got help from a therapist at school but they only have funding for each student to get 10 sessions then have to refer to outside the school and with no insurance it's something that isn't an option for me.

I only started Wellbutrin on Wednesday so I know having the withdrawal from Lexapro and starting something new it will take time to get a new normal again.

Why are you going back for your masters, if you have to deal with the shock of being HIV+, the depression, the suicide feelings, etc.?  Is this a good idea?  Are you getting scholarships for that masters???  Not going into debt?

Is it the economy - not sure you can get a job now?

Tell me more.  There's a lot going on, but you are making kinda violent little statements in run on, dramatic sentences without much context. Which draws me in to listen, but I do kind of want to hear more. 

School in fact can be a comforting place, when we are good at the studies and the cost isn't breaking our futures.  Plus there is the student insurance, etc etc. 

But eventually you'll need to face the big world and figure out things like - how do I get the medical and mental health treatment I need.  How do I earn my living. Make friends.  Make my adult life.  Etc.

It's the only option, depression and suicidal thoughts have been with me long before the HIV+, family has no money so I get full financial aid (FAFSA) I have no debt from my college career so far.

My field the minimum is a bachelors but the preference for employers is a Masters, after graduation I had some job offers and I had some I was not selected for.

Honestly I'm angry if it wasn't for the anti-depressants I've been on no doubt I'd have snapped and beat the hell out of someone by now. I'm angry, frustrated, isolated, and alone. It takes all I have to keep it under wraps and from hurting those around me.

That's why I'm going back, school kept me so busy after I was diagnosed that I didn't have time to think along with that I got a weekend job that prevented me from having time to think now I'm back home with nothing to do for the summer and all I can do is just think of all that's bothering me. So going to grad school will give me that stability and security to occupy my mind so that I stop this. Also in October last year I tore my ACL and menscious in my knee and can't get surgery so I've lost my other ways to deal which was running and playing soccer  honestly I haven't been outside since Wednesday (it's Sunday now) Socially I've always been very far behind so I'm horrible at making friends. Idk I'm just all around crazy.

Offline Valmont

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2012, 09:00:19 PM »
Just a quick answer...

I´ve been diagnosted for a year, just after my company gave me a important possition with many responsabilities...  I was thinking in going out, but I just tried to do it...  and I did it quite well.  Hiv won´t never change your capacities how to do something, but mental attitude is the key...  You have to desire what you want and looking for it, working for it..  HIV or not, life is not easy...  You will find a job if you believe it, your skills have not changed because of HIV; it is the same as looking for a partneer, without the good attitude, one stay alone....  You have to be patient, this happen also to people without HIV...

Actually, I´m in plan about changing my life: changing of country, starting for zero...  For sure, I´m full of doubt about what is going to happen, and it could be confortable to keep my actual position, but it is so exciting to try it, and HIV won´t never stop me... Oh, and I believe I´ve also been infected for a single exposition with a condom that slipped!!!!  And them what???  I´m infected and it is done, no matter how or with whom...  For now, I would only loose my time thinking about that when there are so many great think to do in this world, it is important to look to the future and avoiding wasting time with a past that cannot be changed, including if it seems unfair....  Things just are !

With HIV, it is so important to keep your mind moving to avoid thinking in bad things and getting depressed, you have to look for using time in things you like...

Studying will help you, for sure; also talk with a mental heath profesional for some help...

There are good advices there, please consider them...
Apr 2011: Diagnotized
Jun 2011: CD4: 504  VL: 176.000
Dic 2011: CD4: 714  VL: 95.000
May 2012: CD4: 395 VL: 67.000
Jun 2012: CD4: 367
Agu 2012: Starting Emtricitabine 200 mg / Tenofovir 300 mg and Efavirenz 600 mg (2 pills) different brands or VIRADAY/ATRIPLA/Mylan....
Sep 2012: VL: 138
Dic 2012: CD4: 708 VL: <34  %CD4: 32%
Jan 2013: CD4: 707 VL: <20
May 2013: CD4: 945 VL: <34 %CD4: 33%
Agu 2013: CD4: 636 VL: <34 %CD4: 50%
Dic 2013: Latent TB, started Isoniazid

Offline mecch

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2012, 10:27:41 PM »
Thanks for providing more background information.
You are NOT crazy.  Just despressed in maybe in post-traumatic stress!
With the situation you describe, I do agree that it makes good sense to keep on going with your studies, for all the reasons you explain.  I hope you can find some time next year to work on the social life on campus.  No man is an island.  Universities are one of the ideal places to socialize and make friends. 
Don't isolate yourself this summer.  Get a part-time job or do something, anything, to be around people. 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline whatstheodds

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2012, 10:45:25 PM »
Thanks for providing more background information.
You are NOT crazy.  Just despressed in maybe in post-traumatic stress!
With the situation you describe, I do agree that it makes good sense to keep on going with your studies, for all the reasons you explain.  I hope you can find some time next year to work on the social life on campus.  No man is an island.  Universities are one of the ideal places to socialize and make friends. 
Don't isolate yourself this summer.  Get a part-time job or do something, anything, to be around people.
I plan on getting a part time and I'll be living with one of my classmates from my undergrad she was the only person in my program to know cause when I was gone for a week she called me every day. I just miss affection and it drives me nuts that I no longer have that....

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2012, 08:11:42 AM »
The medication also increases in not causes memory loss, depression and anxiousness.  You may have to switch meds that do not cause these side effect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

“Neither look forward where there is doubt nor backward where there is regret. Look inward and ask not if there is anything o

Offline mecch

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2012, 01:09:11 PM »
Also don't forget to be pleased with the good parts of your life, don't let the heartache over sex and relationships cloud everything.  You said you got job offers after your graduation.  These days, that's hardly a given, so you must have skills and a personality that employers value (even if you don't see your worth clearly, at the moment).
Also, graduating college debt free, that's pretty rare and you deserve a big horay!
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline TabooPrincess

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2012, 02:59:04 PM »
I like to think of it as weeding out the unsuitable ones anyway.  If you tell the right person then they won't think any of less of you - you just gonna have to try a bit harder to find her.  And you can still have everything you planned.

My consultant told me that if I'm on meds and use condoms then as a female my risk of infecting someone is pretty much nil so there wasn't necessarily a need to tell people before having sex with them.  Just an idea but that obviously depends how you would feel about that morally.  (And as an aside I'm not on medication so haven't encountered this situation yet myself either)
09/ 2008 - Seroconversion
11/2008 - Tested pos, cd4 640 vl 25400
12/2008 - cd4 794 vl 27798, 35%
03/2009 - cd4 844 vl 68846, 35%
06/2009 - cd4 476 vl 49151, 33% (pregnancy confirmed)
08/2009 - cd4 464 vl 54662, 32%
Started meds for pregnancy (Kaletra, AZT, Viread)
09/2009 - cd4 841 vl 3213, 42%
10/2009 - cd4 860 vl 1088, 41%
11/2009 - cd4 771 vl 563, 38%
12/2009 - cd4 885 vl 151 42%
Discontinued meds after baby born
02/2010 - cd4 841 vl 63781, 38%
05/2010 - cd4 1080 vl 113000, 39%
08/2010 - cd4 770 vl 109242
12/2010 - cd4 642 vl 111000, 34%
06/2011 - cd4 450 vl 222000, 33%
11/2011 - cd4 419 vl 212000, 24%
03/2012 - cd4 280 vl 118000, 26% (repeated Cd4 at 360)
05/2012 -cd4 360 vl 99,190
10/2012 Atripla, cd4 690, vl 80
12/2012 Darunavir, norvir, truvada, Cd4 680, vl u/d
07/2013 cd4 750,ud

Offline whatstheodds

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2012, 04:33:38 PM »
I like to think of it as weeding out the unsuitable ones anyway.  If you tell the right person then they won't think any of less of you - you just gonna have to try a bit harder to find her.  And you can still have everything you planned.

My consultant told me that if I'm on meds and use condoms then as a female my risk of infecting someone is pretty much nil so there wasn't necessarily a need to tell people before having sex with them.  Just an idea but that obviously depends how you would feel about that morally.  (And as an aside I'm not on medication so haven't encountered this situation yet myself either)

Here that is a felony. In Florida it doesn't matter if the sex is protected or not or levels are undetectable or not if you have HIV+ and don't inform a partner it's a felony

Offline Valmont

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2012, 08:42:03 PM »
Anyway, telling it may do things harder, it is clear...  but instead of quantity, you may find quality.  With someone who accepts your condition (and probably there are more than you can imagine), you´ll be able to find a kind of special trust in a relation, and sexually, maybe something different too, more authetic...  Mmm it is only my experience...

But for sure, you have to be fine with youself, take thing with patience, look for a good attitude and people will be interessted on you...
Apr 2011: Diagnotized
Jun 2011: CD4: 504  VL: 176.000
Dic 2011: CD4: 714  VL: 95.000
May 2012: CD4: 395 VL: 67.000
Jun 2012: CD4: 367
Agu 2012: Starting Emtricitabine 200 mg / Tenofovir 300 mg and Efavirenz 600 mg (2 pills) different brands or VIRADAY/ATRIPLA/Mylan....
Sep 2012: VL: 138
Dic 2012: CD4: 708 VL: <34  %CD4: 32%
Jan 2013: CD4: 707 VL: <20
May 2013: CD4: 945 VL: <34 %CD4: 33%
Agu 2013: CD4: 636 VL: <34 %CD4: 50%
Dic 2013: Latent TB, started Isoniazid

Offline Ann

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2012, 10:53:27 AM »
Here that is a felony. In Florida it doesn't matter if the sex is protected or not or levels are undetectable or not if you have HIV+ and don't inform a partner it's a felony

Taboo Princess lives in England, where it is not an offense to not disclose when condoms are used. I've posted a list of publications (pdf files) and web pages that explain hiv criminalisation laws in the UK in the current hiv criminalisation thread.

A short summary:

In England & Wales, you may be found guilty of reckless HIV transmission if ALL of the below apply:

    You had sex with someone who didn’t know you had HIV
    You knew you had HIV at that time
    You understood how HIV is transmitted
    You had sex without a condom
    You transmitted HIV to that person.
source
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline TabooPrincess

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2012, 04:44:14 PM »
Here that is a felony. In Florida it doesn't matter if the sex is protected or not or levels are undetectable or not if you have HIV+ and don't inform a partner it's a felony

SHIT THE BED so to speak.  I didn't know it was like that over your side of the waters.  Guess we lucky in some respects then, what with the free meds and questionably better legal understanding.  Wow, I wouldn't know where to start with dating if that was the same here. 
09/ 2008 - Seroconversion
11/2008 - Tested pos, cd4 640 vl 25400
12/2008 - cd4 794 vl 27798, 35%
03/2009 - cd4 844 vl 68846, 35%
06/2009 - cd4 476 vl 49151, 33% (pregnancy confirmed)
08/2009 - cd4 464 vl 54662, 32%
Started meds for pregnancy (Kaletra, AZT, Viread)
09/2009 - cd4 841 vl 3213, 42%
10/2009 - cd4 860 vl 1088, 41%
11/2009 - cd4 771 vl 563, 38%
12/2009 - cd4 885 vl 151 42%
Discontinued meds after baby born
02/2010 - cd4 841 vl 63781, 38%
05/2010 - cd4 1080 vl 113000, 39%
08/2010 - cd4 770 vl 109242
12/2010 - cd4 642 vl 111000, 34%
06/2011 - cd4 450 vl 222000, 33%
11/2011 - cd4 419 vl 212000, 24%
03/2012 - cd4 280 vl 118000, 26% (repeated Cd4 at 360)
05/2012 -cd4 360 vl 99,190
10/2012 Atripla, cd4 690, vl 80
12/2012 Darunavir, norvir, truvada, Cd4 680, vl u/d
07/2013 cd4 750,ud

Offline Rockin

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2012, 06:00:28 PM »
Ooooooh its a felony. Listen, if youre going for a quick hook-up, are UND and using condom then why in the name of God almighty do you have to tell the person you are poz? If you're not going to infect the person (because you are und AND you are using condom) then where's the felony? Where's the crime?

I understand the need for a law because, unfortunately, there are lots of crazy assholes out there. But you don't have to take the law so literally.

As for girls rejecting you, well....everyone in this forum knows at least one
serodiscordant couple. I just saw a tv special the other day about a guy who was born with HIV and he was dating this negative girl for years now and he was undergoing sperm washing treatment so they could have kids. They looked like any other young couple out there.

Maybe I'm being naive but I truly believe that someone who loves you...truly loves you...will understand and learn how to deal with it. Simply because she will not be able to stand to be away from you, no matter what.

Anything can happen man. Don't lose hope and don't fret over it.

Offline drewm

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2012, 06:26:38 PM »
In most U.S. states it is a felony or some mixture of misdemeanors and felonies to not disclose to sexual partners.

http://www.hivdent.org/_uspublicpolicy_/USPP_SCSOHT_2005.htm
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JUNE 2010 STARTED ATRIPLA

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Offline mecch

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2012, 07:26:55 PM »
Ooooooh its a felony. Listen, if youre going for a quick hook-up, are UND and using condom then why in the name of God almighty do you have to tell the person you are poz? If you're not going to infect the person (because you are und AND you are using condom) then where's the felony? Where's the crime?

I understand the need for a law because, unfortunately, there are lots of crazy assholes out there. But you don't have to take the law so literally.

As for girls rejecting you, well....everyone in this forum knows at least one
serodiscordant couple. I just saw a tv special the other day about a guy who was born with HIV and he was dating this negative girl for years now and he was undergoing sperm washing treatment so they could have kids. They looked like any other young couple out there.

Maybe I'm being naive but I truly believe that someone who loves you...truly loves you...will understand and learn how to deal with it. Simply because she will not be able to stand to be away from you, no matter what.

Anything can happen man. Don't lose hope and don't fret over it.

Rockin - dont confuse anger or bewilderment about why HIV has been criminalized with a cavalier approach to the laws.  It occurs to me to ask you, if you understand that there are laws in some states that punish NON DISCLOSURE and no transmission.  There are people serving time for not transmitting HIV, simply for not disclosing.  Also, one can be put on a sex offender list.  Nice huh?

Every HIV+ person has to be familiar with the laws and the prosecutions that are in place where he/she is having his/her sex life.  And not be cavalier about it.  Its fine if you research and decide there are no prosecutions than the risk is worth is, maybe.  But these decisions should be taken from a position of full knowledge of the laws.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Rockin

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2012, 07:49:37 PM »
Rockin - dont confuse anger or bewilderment about why HIV has been criminalized with a cavalier approach to the laws.  It occurs to me to ask you, if you understand that there are laws in some states that punish NON DISCLOSURE and no transmission.  There are people serving time for not transmitting HIV, simply for not disclosing.  Also, one can be put on a sex offender list.  Nice huh?

Every HIV+ person has to be familiar with the laws and the prosecutions that are in place where he/she is having his/her sex life.  And not be cavalier about it.  Its fine if you research and decide there are no prosecutions than the risk is worth is, maybe.  But these decisions should be taken from a position of full knowledge of the laws.

Of course we have to be familiar...I just don't understand how someone will be prosecuted if he/she did not infect the person in the first place. If the person was not infected, and if the person doesn't know the poz partner was poz, then what's the problem? There is no crime and there is no victim. For someone to sue you that person has to know something or something must have happened to her. Unless you are open socially about your status and your hookup hears something from someone you know...but that's another issue.

I have random hookups, because I need sex, and I never tell them I'm poz. I'd probably become a very depressed individual if I had to abdicate sex out of fear or guilt.

I'm UND, I always use good quality condom and lube and I usually refrain from letting guys perform oral sex on me (they can jerk me off though, which I love). I know it's not even a big risk but I do not want to have that thought hovering over my head.

So...am I committing a crime here? Am I a criminal, am I irresponsible? I don't think so but I believe some people here might think the opposite. Some people here belive you should always disclose your status, regardless of the type of sexual relation. I disagree.

Offline mecch

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2012, 08:00:03 PM »
You reasoning is completely rational. The laws are irrational and motivated by bias and hatred and fear. But they exist. In places you can be convicted of non-disclosure, with no transmission.  You have to accept these laws exist --  even if you don't understand them, or if fortunately you personally live in a place free from such stupid prosecutions and so they are not an issue.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 08:01:50 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline drewm

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2012, 08:18:53 PM »
Of course we have to be familiar...I just don't understand how someone will be prosecuted if he/she did not infect the person in the first place. If the person was not infected, and if the person doesn't know the poz partner was poz, then what's the problem? There is no crime and there is no victim. For someone to sue you that person has to know something or something must have happened to her. Unless you are open socially about your status and your hookup hears something from someone you know...but that's another issue.

I have random hookups, because I need sex, and I never tell them I'm poz. I'd probably become a very depressed individual if I had to abdicate sex out of fear or guilt.

I'm UND, I always use good quality condom and lube and I usually refrain from letting guys perform oral sex on me (they can jerk me off though, which I love). I know it's not even a big risk but I do not want to have that thought hovering over my head.

So...am I committing a crime here? Am I a criminal, am I irresponsible? I don't think so but I believe some people here might think the opposite. Some people here belive you should always disclose your status, regardless of the type of sexual relation. I disagree.

Rockin...

I am not sure anyone here disagrees with you that the laws are stupid and irrational but many laws in many states are based on fear and ignorance. Check this out:

Indiana   

Ind. Code
§ 35-42-1-7   Class C Felony, Class A Felony   A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally donates, sells or transfers blood, a blood component, or semen for artificial insemination that contains HIV commits ‘transferring contaminated body fluids,’ a class C felony. However, the offense is a class A felony if it results in the transmission of HIV to any person other than the defendant. These provisions do not apply to a person who, for reasons of privacy, donates blood to a blood center after the person has notified the blood center that the blood must be disposed of. Nor do the provisions apply to those that transfer HIV positive body fluids for research purposes.

Ind. Code
§ 35-42-6   Class D Felony, Class C Felony, Class A Felony   A person who knowingly or intentionally in a rude, insolent, or angry manner places (or coerces another to place) blood or another body fluid or waste on a law enforcement or corrections officer identified as such and at that moment on duty commits battery by body waste, a class D Felony. The offense is a class C felony if the person knew or recklessly failed to know that the blood, fluid or body waste was infected with HIV. The offense is a class A felony if the person knew or recklessly failed to know that the blood, fluid or body waste was infected with HIV and the offense results in the transmission of HIV.

Ind. Code
§ 35-42-2-6   Class A Misdemeanor, Class D Felony, Class B Felony   A person who knowingly or intentionally in a rude, an insolent, or an angry manner places human blood, semen, urine or fecal waste on another person commits battery by body waste, a class A misdemeanor. The offense is a class D felony if the person knew recklessly failed to know that the blood, fluid or waste was infected with HIV. It is a class B felony if the person knew or recklessly failed to know that the blood, fluid or waste was infected with HIV and the offense results in the transmission of HIV.

Ind. Code
§ 35-45-16-2   Class B Misdemeanor, Class D Felony, Class B Felony   A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally places human blood, semen, urine or fecal waste in a location with the intent that another person will involuntarily touch it commits malicious mischief, a class B misdemeanor. The offense is a class D felony if the person knew or recklessly failed to know that the blood, urine, mor waste was infected with HIV. It is a class B felony if the person knew or recklessly failed to know that the waste was infected with HIV and the offense results in the transmission of HIV to the other person.

Ind. Code
§ § 35-45-16-2   Class A Misdemeanor, Class D Felony, Class B Felony   A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally places human blood, fluid, or fecal waste in a location with the intent that another person will ingest it commits malicious mischief with food, a class A misdemeanor. The offense is a class D felony if the person knew or recklessly failed to know that the blood, fluid or waste was infected with HIV. The offense is a class B felony if the person knew or recklessly failed to know that the blood, fluid or waste was infected with HIV and the offense results in the transmission of HIV to the other person.

Ind. Code Ann.
§ 16-41-12-13   Class A Misdemeanor   A blood center shall perform a screening test on a donor’s blood and obtain the results before the blood is distributed for use. An employee who is responsible for conducting the screening test who knowingly or intentionally fails to do so commits a class A misdemeanor.


Does that sound like rational, well thought out public policy to you? It doesn't to me. It sounds like fear-based criminal procedure designed for one thing. Criminalizing people with HIV/AIDS. Make no mistake, there are prosecutors in the various states who would take this to a jury in a fleas heartbeat on principle.
MAY 2010
VL>500,000 CD4>8

JUNE 2010 STARTED ATRIPLA

DEC 2010
VL>30 CD4>323

Atripla. Valtrex, Trilipix, Fluoxotine

Offline Rockin

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  • Posts: 491
Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2012, 08:43:40 PM »
Rockin...

I am not sure anyone here disagrees with you that the laws are stupid and irrational but many laws in many states are based on fear and ignorance. Check this out:

Indiana   

Ind. Code
§ 35-42-1-7   Class C Felony, Class A Felony   A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally donates, sells or transfers blood, a blood component, or semen for artificial insemination that contains HIV commits ‘transferring contaminated body fluids,’ a class C felony. However, the offense is a class A felony if it results in the transmission of HIV to any person other than the defendant. These provisions do not apply to a person who, for reasons of privacy, donates blood to a blood center after the person has notified the blood center that the blood must be disposed of. Nor do the provisions apply to those that transfer HIV positive body fluids for research purposes.

Ind. Code
§ 35-42-6   Class D Felony, Class C Felony, Class A Felony   A person who knowingly or intentionally in a rude, insolent, or angry manner places (or coerces another to place) blood or another body fluid or waste on a law enforcement or corrections officer identified as such and at that moment on duty commits battery by body waste, a class D Felony. The offense is a class C felony if the person knew or recklessly failed to know that the blood, fluid or body waste was infected with HIV. The offense is a class A felony if the person knew or recklessly failed to know that the blood, fluid or body waste was infected with HIV and the offense results in the transmission of HIV.

Ind. Code
§ 35-42-2-6   Class A Misdemeanor, Class D Felony, Class B Felony   A person who knowingly or intentionally in a rude, an insolent, or an angry manner places human blood, semen, urine or fecal waste on another person commits battery by body waste, a class A misdemeanor. The offense is a class D felony if the person knew recklessly failed to know that the blood, fluid or waste was infected with HIV. It is a class B felony if the person knew or recklessly failed to know that the blood, fluid or waste was infected with HIV and the offense results in the transmission of HIV.

Ind. Code
§ 35-45-16-2   Class B Misdemeanor, Class D Felony, Class B Felony   A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally places human blood, semen, urine or fecal waste in a location with the intent that another person will involuntarily touch it commits malicious mischief, a class B misdemeanor. The offense is a class D felony if the person knew or recklessly failed to know that the blood, urine, mor waste was infected with HIV. It is a class B felony if the person knew or recklessly failed to know that the waste was infected with HIV and the offense results in the transmission of HIV to the other person.

Ind. Code
§ § 35-45-16-2   Class A Misdemeanor, Class D Felony, Class B Felony   A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally places human blood, fluid, or fecal waste in a location with the intent that another person will ingest it commits malicious mischief with food, a class A misdemeanor. The offense is a class D felony if the person knew or recklessly failed to know that the blood, fluid or waste was infected with HIV. The offense is a class B felony if the person knew or recklessly failed to know that the blood, fluid or waste was infected with HIV and the offense results in the transmission of HIV to the other person.

Ind. Code Ann.
§ 16-41-12-13   Class A Misdemeanor   A blood center shall perform a screening test on a donor’s blood and obtain the results before the blood is distributed for use. An employee who is responsible for conducting the screening test who knowingly or intentionally fails to do so commits a class A misdemeanor.


Does that sound like rational, well thought out public policy to you? It doesn't to me. It sounds like fear-based criminal procedure designed for one thing. Criminalizing people with HIV/AIDS. Make no mistake, there are prosecutors in the various states who would take this to a jury in a fleas heartbeat on principle.

I just wrote that post because I have read posts from people here who claim they are so scared of the laws in their cities/countries that they simply stop having sex altogether. And we all know how nice and sexy is to disclose your status to a random hookup...it really sets the mood. 

We all have to be aware of the law...as we all have to be responsible when having sex. I just think the law should not scare us into a corner.

Offline madbrain

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2012, 10:03:16 PM »
Dear, we were all infected from a single exposure. 

What, you mean to tell me you were not being DP'ed while injecting yourself with 5 different drugs ?
I guess you missed out.

Offline Rockin

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2012, 02:16:49 AM »
What, you mean to tell me you were not being DP'ed while injecting yourself with 5 different drugs ?
I guess you missed out.

I used to think poz people became poz because they were promiscuous (and I believe probably 99% of the population feels the same way). Then I became poz from a boyfriend, with whom I was in a very faithful relationship.

All it takes is one slip guys...one slip.

Offline Ann

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2012, 10:13:15 AM »
Rockin, as you are going to the UK to study, I thought you might be interested in the law in the UK.

You may be guilty of reckless HIV transmission if all five points below
applied to you at the time of the alleged offence:

• You knew you had HIV

• You understood how HIV is transmitted

• You had sex with someone who didn’t know you had HIV

• You had sex without a condom

• You transmitted HIV to that person.
source (PDF file)

You may also be interested in the information at aidsmap.com/law. Aidsmap is based in the UK.

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Rockin

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Re: I can live with it but I can't live with myself.
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2012, 02:28:15 PM »
Rockin, as you are going to the UK to study, I thought you might be interested in the law in the UK.

You may be guilty of reckless HIV transmission if all five points below
applied to you at the time of the alleged offence:

• You knew you had HIV

• You understood how HIV is transmitted

• You had sex with someone who didn’t know you had HIV

• You had sex without a condom

• You transmitted HIV to that person.
source (PDF file)

You may also be interested in the information at aidsmap.com/law. Aidsmap is based in the UK.

Thanks Ann. I'm currently UND and I do not plan on not wearing a condom with anyone ever ever unless hes also a poz so I think I'm safe for the time being. No Brit jailtime for me.

 


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