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Author Topic: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"  (Read 10389 times)

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Offline greatcyber

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OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« on: September 29, 2006, 05:58:02 PM »
Subject: Thank You Australia
 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 17:52:36 -0500
 
 This is an absolutely beautiful tribute to the United States of America
 And an Australian wrote it. Many people love America - many people don't.
 But it is what it is.
 Written by an Australian Dentist...and too good to delete
 
 To Kill an American:
 
 You probably missed it in the rush of news last week, but there was actually a
report that someone in Pakistan had published in a newspaper an offer of a
reward to anyone who killed an American...any American. So an Australian dentist wrote an editorial the following day to let everyone know what an American is. So they would know when they found one. (Good one...mate!) :



An American is English, or French, or Italian, Irish, German, Spanish, Polish, Russian or Greek. An American may also be Canadian, Mexican, African, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Australian, Iranian, Asian, or Arab, or Pakistani or Afghan.
            An American may also be a Comanche, Cherokee, Osage, Blackfoot, Navaho, Apache, Seminole or one of the many other tribes known as Native Americans.  An American is Christian, or he could be Jewish, or Buddhist, or Muslim. In fact, there are more Muslims in America than in Afghanistan. The only difference is that in America they are free to worship as each of them chooses.
            An American is also free to believe in no religion. For that, he will answer
only to God, not to the government, or to armed thugs claiming to speak for the
government and for God.
            An American lives in the most prosperous land in the history of the world.
The root of that prosperity can be found in the Declaration of Independence,
which recognizes the God given right of each person to the pursuit of happiness. 

           An American is generous. Americans have helped just about every other nation in the world in their time of need, never asking a thing in return.
            When Afghanistan was over-run by the Soviet army 20 years ago, Americans came with arms and supplies to enable the people to win back their country! As of the morning of September 11, Americans had given more than any other nation to the poor in Afghanistan. Americans welcome the best of
everything...the best products, the best books, the best music, the best food,
the best services. But they also welcome the least.
 &g t;
            The national symbol of America, The Statue of Liberty, welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores, the homeless, tempest tossed. These, in fact, are the people who built America.
 
 Some of them were working in the Twin Towers the morning of September 11, 2001, earning a better life for their families. It's been told that the World Trade
Center victims were from at least 30 different countries, cultures, and first
languages, including those that aided and abetted the terrorists.
 
            So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did. So did General
Tojo, and Stalin, and Mao Tse-tung, and other bloodthirsty tyrants in the world.
But, in doing so, you would just be killing yourself. Because Americans are not
a particular people from a particular place. They are the embodiment of the
human spirit of freedom. Everyone who holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an
American.
 
 Please keep this going!
 Pass this around the World
 Then pass it around again.
 It says it all, for all of us
 
Cordially submitted by:
Stephen
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Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2006, 06:38:43 PM »
Because Americans are not a particular people from a particular place. They are the embodiment of the human spirit of freedom. Everyone who holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an American.

Amen brother! I was just thinking today how much I love this country  8) ... it truly is awesome. not perfect, but awesome. (no country is perfect!)

la la la cuz i'm proud to be an american, where at least i know i'm free! la la la  8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV7dBJZIKpk

Offline ademas

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2006, 07:00:24 PM »
I appreciate the sentiment...I truly do.
but on the heels of the Terror Bill that just passed...and all that's happened over the past 5 years...and the ugliness and divisiveness and shame that this administration has brought to my country...well...I'm just not feeling it at the moment.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2006, 07:11:43 PM »
Ditto allopathicholistic.



« Last Edit: September 29, 2006, 07:30:49 PM by RapidRod »

Offline Iggy

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2006, 07:30:40 PM »
.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 08:45:50 PM by Iggy »

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2006, 07:33:03 PM »
Zing!

MtD
(Who knows that only the Australian Prime Minister would be so grovelly)

Offline alisenjafi

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2006, 08:03:11 PM »
Okay  I am going to rain (piss) on your parades-but why can't American gays be in the military or get married ?
Sorry
Johnny
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2006, 08:04:34 PM »
The Australian military has been admitting fudge-packers and muff-munchers for years now. ;)

MtD

Offline Terry

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2006, 08:18:39 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I had no idea that Matty was a dentist. Who’da thunk?

Thanks mate that was big of you.


 ;D    ;D    ;D    ;D    ;D

Okay  I am going to rain (piss) on your parades-but why can't American gays be in the military or get married ?
Sorry
Johnny

The answer to that question Johnny is the 80 million Evangelic Christian that are registered to vote what they are told to vote. PERIOD. Until people/we stand up and be counted they will win time and time again. They will decide this next election unless we start growing some balls and fight back.

Not by fighting each other, which is exactly what they want you to do.


[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: September 29, 2006, 08:26:41 PM by Terry »

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2006, 08:21:36 PM »
Damn right Tezza! Let Matty the Damned pack your root canal. ;) ;D

MtD

Offline RapidRod

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2006, 08:46:40 PM »
Okay  I am going to rain (piss) on your parades-but why can't American gays be in the military or get married ?
Sorry
Johnny
Johnny gays can be in the military. We have the, don't ask, don't tell and don't be fucking in the fox hole(s) rules. As for marrage, I see no reason for it. Who needs a damn piece of paper to show that you love someone? Hell, we can't get straight folks to stay married, let alone some of us gays. I like the single swingin life to be ruled and tied down. We do have quite a few guys and gals that have been with their lovers for many years.

Offline Ann

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2006, 09:08:52 PM »
Quote
The national symbol of America, The Statue of Liberty, welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores, the homeless, tempest tossed.

Unless you're tired, poor, wretched, homeless, tempest tossed and HIV POSITIVE!

Just sayin'.

Ann
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Offline RapidRod

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2006, 02:05:49 AM »
She's holding up a new sign: NO VACANCIES

Offline jack

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2006, 08:24:12 AM »
America sucks. We have people who believe in God. We have people who don't believe in God. We are trying to kill the Terrorists that W created by lying about WMD. A good room at the Inn at Spanish Bay costs $750 a night. We have sick people! We have poor people! Fuck the Dentist. No wonder they have such a high rate of suicide. "is it safe?".  Al gore says second hand cigarette smoke is one the biggest contributers to Global Warming.  Going to the golf course, this place really sucks.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2006, 11:01:38 AM »
ROFL :D

Offline greatcyber

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2006, 02:35:02 PM »
Folks, I think you got it all wrong as far as my intention of this post.  It simply states that Americans comprise all peoples from all over the world.  Yes, it is still backward in certain areas and continues that trend with the current administration.  I was only sharing the fact that there are SOME people in other countries that know the majority of this countrymen for what they truly are.  To hell with the other portion that want to tell others how to live.

As for not caring about gays serving in the milatary or being able to legally marry, and stating that it is not important, well-everyone has an opinion.  A marriage liscense does more than acknowledge one's love for another.  THAT IS THE REASON my husband and I went to CANADA to become married and plan on MOVING THERE ASAP!

While there are freedoms here in this country, it truly is a country of hypocrites.  Elected officials and so-called "christians" say one thing and do completely another.  At least I got a spark of interest from some of you.  Once I leave this country, I doubt very seriously that I'll ever look back.  Joe and I will be enjoying ourselves as a happily married couple in a country that doesn't want to put us all out of their misery.  We'll also be enjoying universal healthcare that "the greatest and richest country in the free world" just can't seem to figure out a way to do.  It would take too much money away from special interests and turkeys from lifers in the government.

And, oh yeah, we'll also be enjoying the fact that we will be living in a country where a vote of confidence can be called for at any time in Parliament and the Prime Minister and his Cabinet can be thrown out if the vote fails.  AND they get a WHOPPING 6 WEEKS to campaign.  No more 2 to 3 years of mud slinging to have to suffer through.

And, another aside:  EVERY citizen in Canada is Canadian.  No Cuban-Canadians, No African-Canadians, NO Hyphenated bullshit labels to further isolate its citizenry.

Oh, Canada!  Here we come. 

Stephen and Joe
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Offline greatcyber

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2006, 02:38:30 PM »
I think you may want to check out snopes and then edit your post

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/america2.htm
Well, EXCUSE ME!  I received the referenced piece in an email and simply cut and pasted it.  Actually, I couldn't care WHO wrote it.  It still gets the point across, albeit it's not the point that everyone would believe.
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Offline alisenjafi

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2006, 05:44:13 PM »
Quote
I was only sharing the fact that there are SOME people in other countries that know the majority of this countrymen for what they truly are.
Since this was written by an American what you say doesn't make sense.

Quote
NO Hyphenated bullshit labels to further isolate its citizenry.
You need to look more closely on how Canada handles itself with the native population-

Quote
And, another aside:  EVERY citizen in Canada is Canadian.
not to mention the fact that Quebec is always planning to leave.

Quote
It would take too much money away from special interests and turkeys from lifers in the government.
You don't think the Canadian gov't has special interest groups too?
and...
Quote
Johnny gays can be in the military. We have the, don't ask, don't tell and don't be fucking in the fox hole(s) rules. As for marriage, I see no reason for it. Who needs a damn piece of paper to show that you love someone?

This administration is going out of it's way to hunt down gays just look in planet out, as for marriage when your lover is in the hospital you would need that paper, if he/she dies you might need that paper, it is a legal contract that gives one rights that say a room mate just isn't going to get. From health benefits to having a say in the burial.

Quote
This is an absolutely beautiful tribute to the United States of America
My mom aways said blowing your own horn is not much to listen to, then again she was from Europe.

My brother sent me this and latter the crap about the k'ran and chapter 9 verse 11, yes election time is here!
« Last Edit: September 30, 2006, 05:48:06 PM by alisenjafi »
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline greatcyber

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2006, 07:31:12 PM »
Of course, every government has special interests.  I merely point out that in Canada we will enjoy more rights that we currently do.  In the USA we have legal documents (5) protecting us in the event of illness, death, and joint accounts.

As for the military, I served in the Air Force for 4 years and if I weren't made to feel like a second class citizen subject to listening to sordid stories by enlisted personnel, I would have made a career out of it.  Instead, I worked for the government as a civilian and am now retired.

Since I wouldn't have ANY idea WHO wrote the article it really doesn't matter to me what you think makes sense.  You obviously MISSED the entire point of the thread as well as the article.

While this country still has a long way to go and will always be decades behind Europe, it is what it is.  I was merely pointing out that not ALL other people in the world see the USA as the Great Satan.  It's far from perfect and that is why we crossed the border to get married and are moving to Canada to live as husband and husband, or maybe you missed that part.  It's a sad testament that this is what we had to resort to.

As for blowing your own horn, well, it wasn't my horn I was blowing, just passing on something I received from a senior relative in an email.  But you be a good little momma's boy and everything your mother says.  BTW, my relatives are all from Europe, too.

I guess it is too much to ask for people to just take things for what they are without being the first one to lift a fist in the air.  I was encouraging discourse about SOMEONE'S reaction to an article that was written to encourage those of a certain ilk to kill an American...any American, and the reaction by someone with reasonable sensabilities.  I neither take credit nor condone nor condemn anything written therein.

While leaving the country of one's origin is exactly the way this country was founded, by people being fed up with their own lot in life and therefore setting out in search of a better way of life, it is a real shame that is what I feel the need to resort to in order to live in a better society.  I guess history will always repeat itself.

Thanks for your input.
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Offline angels4kelly

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2006, 07:59:41 PM »
SO PROUD ;D

TO BE AN AMERICAN!!

Peace

Kelly

                                           
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Offline Iggy

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2006, 09:40:16 PM »
.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 08:45:18 PM by Iggy »

Offline alisenjafi

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2006, 01:46:34 AM »
Why it doesn't make sense , is first it is fraudulently given credit to someone other than an American to twist the fact that America should have the right to invade a foreign country.

Secondly by posting this you are personally giving credence to the fact you too believe America was right to invade Iraq.

Thirdly , by posting this , you are also fraudulently displaying patriotism and yet in the next breath you are saying that you can't wait to leave and don't care to help fight with others who don't have the opportunities to run to another country.

I have 2 passports and lived in Holland in the 90's for awhile. The gay Americans who came over there because it was more conducive to being gay were pretty much assholes whole never bothered to learn the culture, the language,   or the laws.
I also lived in Paris and London and all three places are mixed with Arabs , Jews, gays Chinese , etc. so only an ignorant American who never been anywhere past these borders would not know the whole world is made of mixed communities.

Since the only way you seem to discuss things with people is by getting nasty, I fear Canadians will just get an even more bad picture of their neighbor to the South, The majority of Americans- I am from NYC, unlike where I live, voted to keep these policies both of the war in Iraq and  anti gay marriage going so I wonder why you give them kudos.

Quote
When Afghanistan was over-run by the Soviet army 20 years ago, Americans came with arms and supplies to enable the people to win back their country
This is how the mess culminated into 9/11 and by Ronald Reagan who couldn't utter HIV or AIDS.

 My comment on blowing one's horn was to the American writing this (fraudulently)) not you.
You running away from the people you are  applauding  makes me content that I chose to  never go over the Appalachians- and as a momma's boy she has been dead since 1991.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2006, 01:54:41 AM by alisenjafi »
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline Moffie65

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2006, 07:25:54 AM »
Jesus Christ admonished us to "Love our Enemies".

This does imply "Not Killing Them".

I am so not proud of being an American, I sometimes dream of leaving.  Waving the flag and images of the Eagle we nearly have wiped off the face of the planet due to poisons which dominate their food chain; we have no reason to be proud. Our ancestors came here, wiped the native cultures off the planet, killed their food chain, and the natural surroundings were irreversabily modified, and they set out to "create" a nation on false premises.   We are a terribly cold and crass nation of idiots that spew shit at the drop of a pin.

In Awe, from a Viet Nam VETERAN, who just happens to be also Gay.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
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Offline kcmetroman

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2006, 09:25:26 AM »
I find this post totally ironic and a bit hypocritical from someone who is in the very midst of "fleeing" from America in an effort to find more equality and rights in another country.

 ???

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2006, 10:14:11 AM »


   Yea America sucks big time!   We should all move to Haiti...  or some other equally great country!   We suck we don't give anything AWAY FOR FREE!

  If you hate it here so so much and you are being done so so wrong then get the fuck out!!!   

    Everyone's got their problems, quit pointing fingers at everyone else like it's their fault......

   Last I heard Zaire is giving away free meds for HIV.... ooops sorry it was bayer apsirin..

   
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline alisenjafi

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2006, 11:47:26 AM »

   Yea America sucks big time!   We should all move to Haiti...  or some other equally great country!   We suck we don't give anything AWAY FOR FREE!

  If you hate it here so so much and you are being done so so wrong then get the fuck out!!!  

    Everyone's got their problems, quit pointing fingers at everyone else like it's their fault......

   Last I heard Zaire is giving away free meds for HIV.... ooops sorry it was bayer apsirin..

You aren't one of those Americans who believe n free speech now or the one who backs the nra and feel the right to blow away anyone who disagrees with you?  Oh that's another thread!
 Btw only one person here who doesn't believe in making it a better place is leaving ... to Canada. What has giving things away for free have to do with any  of this, except the free bombs in Iraq.

Jack I have no problem with people who believe in god , but why must they want me go and pray to her?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2006, 11:54:26 AM by alisenjafi »
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
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Offline Moffie65

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2006, 01:16:13 PM »

  If you hate it here so so much and you are being done so so wrong then get the fuck out!!!     

Thank you for confirming what many of us are saying here.  Narrowminded Democracy is DEMOCKERY
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline RapidRod

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2006, 01:42:38 PM »








Offline Dachshund

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2006, 02:32:32 PM »
America is not going to the dogs...

[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline RapidRod

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2006, 02:59:33 PM »
Lucky dogs. In some countries they eat them.

Offline Joe K

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2006, 03:18:53 PM »
I find this post totally ironic and a bit hypocritical from someone who is in the very midst of "fleeing" from America in an effort to find more equality and rights in another country???

Of course I expect such nastiness from you, knowing your true feelings regarding gays.  I am not fleeing America, rather I am migrating to the country of my birth and to one that has total respect and full rights FOR ALL OF HER CITIZENS, not just those expoused by narrow-minded people such as yourself.

And you want to talk about being hypocritical, look at your own comment about our effort to find more equality and rights in another country.  Since when does equal rights translate to more equality and rights?  What a pompass ass you are to even open your mouth and condemn me for wanting the same RIGHTS THAT YOU ENJOY NOW THAT YOU IDENTIFY AS STRAIGHT.  Come on John, explain why granting gays equal rights is wrong and why you consider equal rights for gays as being more equal?  Surely you can respond with some more of your bigotted babbling.

Unlike you, we cannot "turn off" being gay so why does that make us less deserving of equal rights?

Walk in my shoes before you even utter another word.

To Johnny, the whole point of why we are leaving America is we have spent decades trying to make this a better place to live, but that will not happen for at least another decade or two.  We do not have the time to wait to be treated as equal citizens in America and since my birth country does extend that respect, well that is why we will be living there.  We have tried but the attitudes of people like John above will take decades to reverse because nobody cares about equal rights for gays.  Plain and simple, too many people just do not care.

I would hope that what would appal you the most is how America treats many of her minorities.  I am not leaving because I do not want to make America a better place, I am leaving because my fellow citizens still see no problem in denying me equal rights.  I am too old to wait for equal rights and we have the opportunity to attain them now, so that is our choice.

Unfortunately it really is that simple.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2006, 04:05:51 PM by killfoile »

Offline Dachshund

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2006, 04:01:28 PM »
We prefer to eat our young. Patriotism is not a bumper sticker...war is not the answer.




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« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 07:06:14 AM by Dachshund »

Offline Razorbill

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2006, 04:21:06 PM »
Hey nobody's perfect - people who live in glass houses.....

Anyway Eagles and raptors are in full resurgence in the US, the food chain having been purged of poisons.  In fact I've seeen them flying over the Hudson River, where they also now nest, after an absence of decades.

My country doesn't suck; it doesn't do nice things always either - reflecting the behavior of just about every human alive on this planet.

To quote Garrison Keillor: "Be well, do good work and keep in touch."  I think that's what we and our country stive for, and sometimes achieve.

Offline alisenjafi

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2006, 04:21:14 PM »
Quote
The root of that prosperity can be found in the Declaration of Independence,
which recognizes the God given right of each person to the pursuit of happiness.

Joe what everyone here doesn't get is that Steve posts a letter- so many think how great America is and then says because America sucks he's leaving.
 I would be the last person to say anything about that as I too have moved abroad, we all are just trying to figure out why someone would post a letter on how great Americans are and then say not only am I leaving I ain't coming back. It would read different if he posted it and the said to bad it doesn't apply to gays.

  As well i just want to bring up the fact that knowing many Cannucks, they have problems too, on many of the same issues we have. So you might want to get him up to speed and have him read a few newspapers . It is one thing to visit a country and another to live in its dirty laundry.
Living in the north of Holland I came across a few homophobes there to, who blame all the problems of life on the gays.
As two gay guys living in Anita Bryantland I can totally understand you wanting to get out , but don't you think it is these same Americans in this post are those who put those people in office.

On a similar note Americans have a perverted memory of history. Many forget that when Jews fled the Nazis in '39, America didn't give ta crap about them but sent them back to their death.  Or the internment of Americans who fought for this country , just having to be of German ancestry, or the massive lynching of Italians in New Orleans.
And while we are now told that it wasn't wmd that we went into Iraq but to free them from an evil dictator, everyone in NY wondered when are we going into Tibet which was annexed by China even though it was it's own country.
Again Steve says it gets a point across and I will be the first to say "I don't get it"  I wasn't looking to get into fight with anyone just reacting to a deceptive letter put out by someone who himself doesn't even agree with it. But I will agree that I don't think Americans any Americans should be killed.
bon chance!
Johnny
« Last Edit: October 01, 2006, 04:29:35 PM by alisenjafi »
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Offline kcmetroman

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2006, 04:51:07 PM »
Of course I expect such nastiness from you, knowing your true feelings regarding gays.  I am not fleeing America, rather I am migrating to the country of my birth and to one that has total respect and full rights FOR ALL OF HER CITIZENS, not just those expoused by narrow-minded people such as yourself.

Joe, I challenge you to go back and find anywhere that I made any type of statement against gays, heteros or whatever the hell.  In your zeal to protect your own turf, you blossomed this whole conspiracy theory in that head of yours.

Are you both not moving to Canada?  If so, I rest my case.

Offline Joe K

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2006, 05:14:22 PM »
Johnny, I responded to only one of your comments and not the entire post.  I will let Stephen speak for himself.

And John, you still did not answer my question on how my having equal rights in Canada, represents more equal rights.  You will not because you cannot.

I'm done here.

Offline greatcyber

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2006, 07:33:18 PM »
Johnny,

Since you said that you were not trying to get into a fight, I'll explain for the record.  ALL I was trying to do with the post was to point out that not all of the world thinks America is the worst place in the West.  Yes, it does point out that there are peoples from all over the world, different cultures, different languages, different religions and the freedoms to express them.  Honestly, I thought a lot of people would appreciate the sentiment behind it.

While I didn't put a post script adding that I don't personally feel all that lucky to be an American most of the time it was because of two things:  One, I was in a hurry and Two, I wanted to see what kind of reactions there were and then make some observations personally.

To me, it did sound as though you were trying to bust my chops, so sorry if I came back a little harder than I should.  But PLEASE don't put us in the same category as other Americans who have never stepped foot out of this country and are led down the garden path by the propaganda we are reared with.  We have traveled extensively while we have been together and most trips have been out of the country.  In fact, on most trips to places we have been to I have sat and cried because I did not want to return to someplace that made me feel second class and unimportant except when it is time to vote.

Personally, I don't agree with bigotry or hatred.  I also feel that since this administration has tried to write discrimination into the Constitution of the United States, the hypocricy is more than needs to be tolerated.  All men are created equal, indeed.  Unless you are poor, black, have HIV/AIDS or whatever those in power don't care to spend their time or money on.

While it is sad to have to leave this country for a better life, people do it all the time, as you can attest to.  I do have a problem with people immigrating to another country and then not trying to assimilate into that culture in all ways.  Of course, we will be learning French, in fact, have already started.  It will just be nice to not have continual stigma attached to our lives just because we happen to be gay individuals.  Never have we been made to feel that way in Canada, or anywhere else for that fact, except here in the USA.

Everyone has their own style of expressing themselves and it shows from the variety of posts on these very forums.  That's what makes it interesting.  We don't really need to jump down each other's throats if we happen to disagree on something, do we?

As Joe stated earlier in his post, we HAVE tried to make changes in the country, both locally by being active in many causes as well as on a national level when we have challenged our lawmakers to do better for those of us that don't seem to have a voice that is heard by most people out there.  But, unfortunately, it is going to be at least another generation or two before biggotry falls by the wayside.  We take comfort in the fact that the kids who are Joe's daughter's age and younger don't seem to be falling into the evil ways of their parents.  They are being brought up in a different world than we were.  When the dyed in the wool right wingers and stuffed shirts are the minority then change will begin.  Since we have an opportunity to live a different life up North, that is why we seek to do such a thing.  I am also part Canadian by birth but had never experienced what Canadians were like until a few years ago when we started traveling there.  Honestly, it felt like home and that is what I said to Joe.  So, in essense, we are going home.  To start over and to live a freedom that will not necessarily come in our lifetimes were we to stay in this country.  We will continue to travel the world, learning about new cultures and different histories that have made the world what it is.  It truly is a fascinating place.  It is through travel that one learns the real reasons behind peoples' actions.

If there is anything else I can explain to you, please feel free to ask.  I'll be happy to respond to anything.

I'm really not a bad person, just a person.
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Offline RapidRod

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2006, 07:39:22 PM »
Razorbill, I just saw a piece the other night that they will soon be taking the Bald Eagle off the indangered list. I thought it was great. They gave the number of mating pairs, but I don't remember the number. They also mentioned that one of the largest nesting places is along the Hudson River.

Offline Peter Staley

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2006, 11:14:10 PM »
We prefer to eat our young. Patriotism is not a bumper sticker...war is not the answer.

Dachshund  -- we got complaints about the pic you posted, so I removed it.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2006, 07:21:43 AM »
We prefer to eat our young. Patriotism is not a bumper sticker...war is not the answer.

My apologies if I offended anyone. We glorify war and post pictures of soaring eagles from the safety of our sofas. We fill up our cars while deceased young men and women are flown into Dover Air Force Base and we are not allowed to see it. We should be forced to see on a daily basis just what war is really like...it is not a plastic,yellow,support our troops ribbon on your car...it is the young with their faces blown off. Too bad the young man who lost his face will never have the opportunity to see your pretty pictures.




Offline Ann

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2006, 07:35:15 AM »
Hal,

I'm going to break ranks here and say that I understood why you posted that photo and I agree 100% with your motive. While the photo was sickening to look at, what sickens me more is the sanitised version of war that is portrayed in the media. Maybe if more people are bold enough to post photos of the reality of war, people might take their X-factor/Pop-idol rose coloured specs off and take notice of the real world.

Ann
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Offline alisenjafi

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2006, 08:09:22 AM »
Now that I understand what this thread was about and lost interest in it something else happens.
Okay I don't want to get into a fight with you Peter and you are the el jefe here ....I am surmising that the photo showed one of our boys in the aftermath of a fun filled holiday in Afghanistan or Iraq (correct me if I am wrong)
1)Would there be as much outrage if the photo showed an Iraq or Afghani whether labeled correctly or not?
2)Are we only going to see the beautiful side of people who are LWAH?

These are just hypothetical questions and I am not even coming back to this thread to seek any answers.
I totally agree with Ann and wouldn't be surprised if those who objected the most are the ones who support the war the most. And to those who objected,you do realize the magnet ribbon on your car goes to the Chinese manufacturers! To bad they weren't outraged enough  when they found out Pat Tillmans' parents were lied to,
Goodbye thread!
Johnny
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline Moffie65

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2006, 10:12:15 AM »
I find it very sad that this thread has turned on the "messenger" of what is a very disturbing part of history. 

How very sad that the only thing that people find to "Pick the Nit" about are the two men who actually had the balls to bring the subject to us to see and discuss.

Not a very good statement of the respondents.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Cliff

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2006, 10:30:37 AM »
Johnny/Hal,

I was one of those who reported the photo and I do not like the war.  Had the photo been of a dead, mutilated Afghan or Iraqi, I still would have reported it.  It's not the political statement that I objected to or the nationality of the person, it was the graphic nature of the photo.  I believe the photo was in poor taste.  I don't need to see a picture of a mutilated, dead soldier to understand the realities of war, especially when I'm not giving any kind of warning.  I think there should be some guidelines on posting pictures in the forums.  I saw one the other week of a fully naked woman.  I understand it was just a joke, but at the time I thought it was distasteful.  And the title of the thread was misleading, so you didn't know that there was going to be full-nudity in the thread.

I personally believe that using the picture of a dead soldier to make a political point, cheapens and demeans the life of that person.  Also forum members may have family and friends serving in Iraq.  That's not the kind of thing you want to see when you worry over whether a loved one will come home safe and sound.

Cliff

Offline Dachshund

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2006, 10:41:19 AM »
I guess Jack Nicholson was right when he said, "you can't handle the truth." Thank you for proving the exact point I was trying to make.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2006, 12:00:42 PM »
And that's the most important thing, isn't it Cliff? So long as you're not made to feel uncomfortable. We can't the nasty ickiness of war intruding into the clean orderly realm of your daily routine.

I don't buy this "demeaning the dead" and "respecting those who've lost loved ones" guff for moment.

MtD

Offline Joe K

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2006, 01:34:48 PM »
A post that starts with sharing positive thoughts about America turns into a absolute mess.  Rather than discussing some of the real issues that face America, we are instead met with overt flag waving and the feeling that we are somehow demeaning America and all that she stands for.  But the accusations that we are fleeing America hurt the most, especially because they are untrue.

I was born in Toronto and so I am returning to Canada to once again live there.  The intent of this post was never to demean America, rather it was to illustrate how damaging some of our laws are and the fact that as much as I love America, I can no longer live in a country that views me as a second-class citizen.  Our decision to go to Canada is so we will have equal rights as gay males.  We have no misconceptions that Canada is a Utopia or anything else, we simply seek a home where we are seen as equals, no more and no less.

I would have hoped that our example of up-rooting our entire lives and moving to another country, to seek equal rights, might spur some discussion, rather than just belittlement because we are doing what we believe to be the best thing for us.  And it still amazes me that John can post his bigotted spewings and not one person takes him to task for gay bashing.  It must just be me that takes offense to his offerings.

These forums are changing and not in a good way.  I am frustrated by being unable to simply state my opinion and then to be either ignored or jumped on with my comments simply being discarded.  Most unfortunate however, is that for the first time the Moderators have seen fit to "censor" a picture on these forums.  I used to be proud to comment that the Moderators here have never censored anyone, but I cannot say that any more.  Like I said, changing and not in a good way.

Offline Cliff

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2006, 02:57:52 PM »
I don't buy, for one moment, that folks who sit behind their computer in the comfort of their developed nation, suburbian, cookie-cutter home searching Google or Yahoo for disgusting and grotesque photos of dead soldiers, (or quoting Hollywood script), can claim to know more about the realities of war than anyone else.

You guys should do a 18 month tour in Fallujah or Al Basra and then maybe you can come back and stand on your soap box preaching to the world, with some semblance of credibility, about the realities of war.  Posting photos of dead soldiers in an HIV forum doesn't cut it.  Not by a long-shot.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 03:28:57 PM by Cliff »

Offline Dachshund

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2006, 03:36:11 PM »
I don't buy, for one moment, that folks who sit behind their computer in the comfort of their developed nation, suburbian, cookie-cutter home searching Google or Yahoo for disgusting and grotesque photos of dead soldiers can claim to know more about the realities of war than anyone else.

You guys should do a 18 month tour in Fallujah or Al Basra and then maybe you can come back and stand on your soap box preaching to the world, with some semblance of credibility, about the realities of war.  Posting dead photos of soldiers in an HIV forum doesn't cut it.  Not by a long-shot.


Where else would a person find pictures of this disgusting war Cliff? The Pentagon censures the showing of flag draped coffins...sanitised for your puritan sensibilities. If it wasn't for the internet you would hardly know there is a war going on...just the way you would like it.

May I post pics of starving children in Darfur in Off Topic Cliff or would they upset your full stomach? Maybe we should run every topic in Off Topic by you for censorship.

Of course once again if the topic doesn't suit a conservative, you attack the messenger and not the message. You have no idea where people live or what they do and it shows (as you always do) who truly is the judgemental one.

I won't even respond to your intellectually bankrupt Fallujah argument. Typical, oh so typical.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 03:48:54 PM by Dachshund »

Offline Moffie65

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Re: OpEd from Australia in response to "Kill An American"
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2006, 03:50:06 PM »
I know I am just one of the "Ancients" or belong to the "Geritol Set", but I do however have some recall of history.

This present conflict is the most censured and most secretive war that this country has ever been involved with.  It is Imoral, and is a shame to this country.  Everyone on the planet knows that this is a personal thing with the Bush family, and has everything to do with personal oil wealth than anything else in history.  The reason why it is being held away from the American public is sheer political greedy power mongering.  Nothing less, nothing more.  If the truth about this war was plastered all over the news nightly, just as it was in Viet Nam, WWI, WWII, and all other U.S. world conflicts, I venture to guess that things would be remarkably different.  Yes, I aint stupid, but in WWII, there were newsreels, and before that there were papers.  Point is, this is (In the name of God Above) a war of power hungry people whose party hardly matters.  They have desecrated the flag in the interest of greed and avarice, and personally, I think it stinks that the Republican party has not called for the resignation of this complete administration.

Shame on them, and shame on you conservatives who are members of this forum and suffer discrimination and hatred from your own party, every day of your lives, due to your HIV status.  Shame on all of you.

In Sadness, and Anger.  (White, Old, Gay, Proud, Viet Nam Veteran)
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

 


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