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Author Topic: Memo to the republican party  (Read 503 times)

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Offline Hellraiser

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Memo to the republican party
« on: May 12, 2012, 09:12:23 AM »
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/05/top-gop-pollster-to-gop-reverse-on-gay-issues.html

This is a very interesting read about how polling dynamics not only inform political opinion but completely control them.  If the advice of this memo was to be used to create the republican platform they would do a complete 180.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Memo to the republican party
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2012, 10:27:23 AM »
This is a very interesting read about how polling dynamics not only inform political opinion but completely control them.

I don't think polling necessarily controls political opinion. If the majority of citizens in a state such as, oh let's say North Carolina, did not believe gay people deserved basic human rights would that change your political opinion? I doubt Obama changed his opinions about gay marriage based on polls, although public opinion certainly played a part in when he chose to express his opinion. I recently read a book called The Believing Brain where author Michael Shermer argues convincingly that we formulate beliefs first and then look for evidence, such as polls, to support those beliefs. In Jan van Louhuizen's memo I suspect he believes gay people deserve rights and is using data to support that belief. Polls are notoriously manipulated by how questions are presented, and in what context, to support whatever position you want:  1) Do you believe traditional marriage of one man and one woman should be changed to give homosexuals special rights? versus 2) Do you believe gay citizens deserve the same basic rights afforded married couples?

From Jan van Lohuizen's memo:
 
“As more people have become aware of friends and family members who are gay, attitudes have begun to shift at an accelerated pace. This is not about a generational shift in attitudes, this is about people changing their thinking as they recognize their friends and family members who are gay or lesbian.”

I think gay people coming out an interacting with friends and coworkers on a personal level is even more powerful than an appeal to individual rights or people's sense of fairness. There is a strong tendance for people to form groups and bonds based on "us" vs. "them". As straight people realize gay people are part of their own family and social groups they will defend them with a passion that doesn't always come from a rational conclusion.

Offline randym431

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Re: Memo to the republican party
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2012, 11:26:12 AM »
Maddow on MSNBC had a good take on polls vs reality. Even though nationwide polls now show 50% claim they support SS marriage, state after state where voting actually has occurred that % did not hold true.

As long as the religious right has a strong hold on the republican party, no change will occur. Not at all. So don't expect to see any.
Things are actually getting worse. Even GW had gay people in his admin. Romney will have none. Why? Because the religious right will be watching very closely. In their book, Romney owes them. And they WILL collect.

We went thru this sort of thing with civil rights. And still do today, for that matter.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2012, 11:31:17 AM by randym431 »

Offline Ann

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Re: Memo to the republican party
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2012, 11:28:02 AM »

I think gay people coming out an interacting with friends and coworkers on a personal level is even more powerful than an appeal to individual rights or people's sense of fairness. There is a strong tendance for people to form groups and bonds based on "us" vs. "them". As straight people realize gay people are part of their own family and social groups they will defend them with a passion that doesn't always come from a rational conclusion.


Absolutely. This is why I also think that the stigma and discrimination against people living with hiv will only begin to lessen when people start realising just how many of their co-workers, friends, family and acquaintances are living (and living well) with hiv.

I know it has certainly worked in my own community where there are several of us who are open about our hiv status. I've actually watched people have an "ah-ha" moment when they realise we're just like them, we just have a viral hitchhiker.

The more we hide, the more we have to hide. Coming out of the closet, whether it's the gay closet, the hiv closet or even both, benefits us all.
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Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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