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Author Topic: how can they tell time frame-  (Read 2065 times)

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Offline LiveLaugh

  • Member
  • Posts: 22
how can they tell time frame-
« on: April 25, 2012, 12:19:02 PM »
Of exposure?  I have been recently diagnosed. I had my State health dept meeting with my list of sexual partners. I have been with my husband for three years (no ine else joining in our bed).  My previous marriage ended 5 yrs ago and was a 16 yr marriage (w cheating on his part).  Anyway when I met with the worker I had all the names listed and their where abouts so they can make contact to have them tested for their safety as well as others (and I did always use protection )  anyway....she said if I did not get it from my husband the past year she suspects my ex????  Im confused?   Can they tell the time from my numbers?  And even if They can would they not want to protect the others?    Cd4358. Vl 293220 march 16, 2012 (14.3%)
Diagnosed
03.16.12 CD4 359  VL 359,679
04.06.12 Started Atripla
05.16.12 CD4 ---    VL    1,440

Offline zach

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,241
Re: how can they tell time frame-
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2012, 02:23:41 PM »
its like reading tea leaves, best answer is "its hard to say" or debate ad nauseum

as for your due diligence to notify, sounds like you've already more than met that standard.

Offline newt

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  • the one and original newt
Re: how can they tell time frame-
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2012, 06:12:29 PM »
In short, no. Special tests may give a within the last 6 months or not time frame with 50% accuracy.

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Blue75

  • Member
  • Posts: 53
Re: how can they tell time frame-
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2012, 09:58:53 PM »
I don't get it....my husand's first rounds of test were cd4 of 216 w/ viral load of 55,600. Dr Jwhom he won't be seeing again) said VL indicates early infection (matches our thoughts on exposposure to infectious blood); however, his CD4 is 216......recent exposure, aggressive strand? Can't even start meds because can't afford...middle class getting screwed. Do we sell home? Live in trailer & raise our child in camper?

Not sure how they determine new or old but your's is similar to his.
Husband:
2/14/12 Tested HIV+
3/16/12: CD4-216, VL-56,500
5/4/12: Started Atripla
5/7/12: CD4-184, VL-12,000 (Taken off Atripla after 3 days, awaiting liver testing) Started antibiotics.

Offline LiveLaugh

  • Member
  • Posts: 22
Re: how can they tell time frame-
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2012, 10:10:02 PM »
I am in the medical field -thats why this confuses me more! I had a physician tell me initial exposure your levels are extremely high then drop then start coming back up as your CD 4 lowers???  But I've seen ppl exposed and been on Meds in AYear. And some go without meds for years. I do wonder why they feel they feel the men in between are OK...esp IF they suspect I got it from my ex???  ( my vl is nearly 300k)
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 10:11:44 PM by LiveLaugh »
Diagnosed
03.16.12 CD4 359  VL 359,679
04.06.12 Started Atripla
05.16.12 CD4 ---    VL    1,440

Offline zach

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,241
Re: how can they tell time frame-
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2012, 09:36:04 PM »
i'm sorry, but in my head i hear a cheesy lawyer voice giving a disclaimer at the end of a commercial

AIDS No purchase necessary, many will enter, few will win. individual results may vary

Offline Hellraiser

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  • Posts: 4,136
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: how can they tell time frame-
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2012, 08:55:11 PM »
I don't get it....my husand's first rounds of test were cd4 of 216 w/ viral load of 55,600. Dr Jwhom he won't be seeing again) said VL indicates early infection (matches our thoughts on exposposure to infectious blood); however, his CD4 is 216......recent exposure, aggressive strand? Can't even start meds because can't afford...middle class getting screwed. Do we sell home? Live in trailer & raise our child in camper?

Not sure how they determine new or old but your's is similar to his.

Leatherman has a very nifty graph which shows exactly what you're talking about.  Directly after infection/seroconversion your body is basically in full blown infection mode and unable to even remotely deal with HIV.  This causes a massive drop in CD4 and a colossal VL, over a period of time this trend reverses itself back to a more typical CD4 count and lower VL.  As the virus begins to regain its initial foothold the VL will climb and climb while the CD4 will slowly fall off.  Meds basically stop the destruction the virus is causing to your immune system putting it "to sleep" so that if you were ever to stop meds the process begins again (although there is some evidence that it will begin where it left off instead of from the beginning).

Offline Blue75

  • Member
  • Posts: 53
Re: how can they tell time frame-
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2012, 11:46:46 PM »
Thanks Hellraiser! I'll check it out. So much to learn whether for me or him, I'm reading everything. I'm not out of woods yet, still have one more neg to be certain but I still want to know it all. Have many comments, questions & concerns, but don't want to stray from LiveLaugh's original post. Just hope my man can start meds soon..fighting insurance, waiting on ADAP, may need to contest state as denying coverage is (from what I'm told) is against law. Who the hell knows. LiveLaugh, thanks for posting, will follow the comments, I learn a lot!
Husband:
2/14/12 Tested HIV+
3/16/12: CD4-216, VL-56,500
5/4/12: Started Atripla
5/7/12: CD4-184, VL-12,000 (Taken off Atripla after 3 days, awaiting liver testing) Started antibiotics.

Online leatherman

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  • Posts: 6,059
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: how can they tell time frame-
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2012, 12:07:47 AM »
do y'all mean this graph?



after an initial rise in viral load (VL) after infection, the vl drops and levels out for quite some time. At some point in time, the VL will begin to rise. As the HIV utilizies and destroys the immune system, the cd4 count will begin to fall. (that's VL rising and CD4 falling).
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Blue75

  • Member
  • Posts: 53
Re: how can they tell time frame-
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2012, 12:52:06 AM »
Forgive me Leatherm, if this is a stupid question, I think this is the graph referred to but I'm confused. I get that blue is CD4 count, which doesn't make sense in our situation, unless we are completely wrong. But, what does red mean? Is VL in 10,000's? So confused..what do you intepret C4-216 &he vl of 55,600? Is he in okay shape to not start meds due to lack of funding or will he be in a screwed lab work situation when ADAP does kick in..if ever. So far, we are resposible for it all...can't...left prescription at pharmacy..don't have $2k now or never a month. No meds started....
Husband:
2/14/12 Tested HIV+
3/16/12: CD4-216, VL-56,500
5/4/12: Started Atripla
5/7/12: CD4-184, VL-12,000 (Taken off Atripla after 3 days, awaiting liver testing) Started antibiotics.

Offline buginme2

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,834
Re: how can they tell time frame-
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2012, 01:17:08 AM »
Forgive me Leatherm, if this is a stupid question, I think this is the graph referred to but I'm confused. I get that blue is CD4 count, which doesn't make sense in our situation, unless we are completely wrong. But, what does red mean? Is VL in 10,000's? So confused..what do you intepret C4-216 &he vl of 55,600? Is he in okay shape to not start meds due to lack of funding or will he be in a screwed lab work situation when ADAP does kick in..if ever. So far, we are resposible for it all...can't...left prescription at pharmacy..don't have $2k now or never a month. No meds started....

The red line on the graph is the viral load.  The graph is listing the viral load as a log10 value.  Viral loads are often written as a log value instead of an absolute number.  They are pretty easy to decifer..  It's basically the number 10 multiplied by itself however many times it's stated.  For example a log of 4  is 10x10x10x10 = 10,000. 

Regardless In your situation a cd4 count of 216 and a viral load of 55,600 isn't dire, but you should begin HIV medication right away.  Once your cd4 count is below 200 you are at greater risk of acquiring other opportunistic infections such as PCP.  Also, once your cd4 count drops below 200 you will need to begin taking medication to prevent you from acquiring PCP. 

Offline Blue75

  • Member
  • Posts: 53
Re: how can they tell time frame-
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2012, 01:43:28 AM »
LtyiveLaugh, once again, thanks for the post. I'm learning..

Bug, thanks for info, I agree,  meds are a necessity, can't get at moment (funds lacking). But if he starts soon (like a cpl wks) he'll be be okay? Waiting on Adap to kick in. I would put on credit card but will take a yr to py just that...then another month.another yr. Gov, never needed before but now do...don't trust it..need insur to do what I pay it do. Don't want to lose my man... :( F...it I'm stuck.

LiveLaugh---hang in there!! :)
Husband:
2/14/12 Tested HIV+
3/16/12: CD4-216, VL-56,500
5/4/12: Started Atripla
5/7/12: CD4-184, VL-12,000 (Taken off Atripla after 3 days, awaiting liver testing) Started antibiotics.

Online leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,059
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: how can they tell time frame-
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2012, 03:18:19 AM »
are y'all seeing an Infectious Disease (ID) doctor, or going to a clinic (as in an HIV clinic)? If you are not connected with an ASO (AIDS service org), check here (http://directory.poz.com/ or check thru google or the phone book for an HIV/AIDS clinic/service org in your area) to see if you can find one in your area. Most ASOs will try to help a patient get access to meds if they are medically eligible but having financial difficulties.

Of course, like many others, you may have to just wait for the system to kick in and start helping and sometimes sadly that can take several weeks. I've been in that spot before myself back when I had to wait a month once after getting out of the hospital with PCP to get meds through ADAP before I got medicaid. That was a scary time, I'm telling you. Hopefully, y'all can get some help sooner rather than later.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,136
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: how can they tell time frame-
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2012, 09:41:41 AM »
Regardless In your situation a cd4 count of 216 and a viral load of 55,600 isn't dire, but you should begin HIV medication right away.  Once your cd4 count is below 200 you are at greater risk of acquiring other opportunistic infections such as PCP.  Also, once your cd4 count drops below 200 you will need to begin taking medication to prevent you from acquiring PCP.

Unless this is a very recent infection and you haven't developed a SET of numbers over the course of at least a month or two therefore you couldn't know if this is a single low number or trending low number.

Offline Blue75

  • Member
  • Posts: 53
Re: how can they tell time frame-
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2012, 10:44:31 AM »
Leatherman &I Hellraiser, he has only had one initial bloodwork so no trends yet. There is no ID dr or hiv clinic in our state; however, thankfully the neighboring state does & we're only 100had miles away. He has appt there on 7th. Not sure how crossing states & ADAP will work but supposedly coverage will be approved by then. Just really wanted a few weeks of meds before seeing a real specialist & thats not happening. Thankfully he is not physically sick, just emotional wreck. Thank you for all the support!
Husband:
2/14/12 Tested HIV+
3/16/12: CD4-216, VL-56,500
5/4/12: Started Atripla
5/7/12: CD4-184, VL-12,000 (Taken off Atripla after 3 days, awaiting liver testing) Started antibiotics.

Online leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,059
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: how can they tell time frame-
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2012, 12:02:55 PM »
There is no ID dr or hiv clinic in our state; however, thankfully the neighboring state does & we're only 100had miles away.
lordy! what state are you !?!? actually though, you'r problem (the distance to travel to a doc) is not that uncommon. Living in a rural area often entails traveling to get to a reliable ID doc.

Not sure how crossing states & ADAP will work but supposedly coverage will be approved by then.
that explains the delay even more. Often times people are able to crossover to some states when near the border; but of course that entails LOTS of extra paperwork and approvals. states are given federal HIV money based on the number of citizens with HIV. Crossing state lines makes determining those numbers difficult and one state has to transfer federal funds over to the other state that is providing services.

Just really wanted a few weeks of meds before seeing a real specialist & thats not happening. Thankfully he is not physically sick, just emotional wreck.
HR is very right and you were too with something you wrote earlier. As this was your husband's first lab results, there is no way to tell exactly how "sick" he is yet.

Unlike other diseases, HIV is not immediately treated after initial infection. At the initial infection, the VL can be very high and cd4s very low. Within a short time the body controls the HIV for a while and the VL drops and the cd4s rise. A long-term non-progressor may never change at this point or take years to change. A normal progressor will possibly (but not always) take 3-10 yrs to progress. Guidelines have recently changed to say that once a person reaches cd4s of 500 or less, then they should start therapy/medication.

Then there's the issue of testing for resistance. When someone doesn't maintain the proper level of meds in their system, the HIV learns how to get around the medication (HIV medications interrupt the HIV life cycle in different spots. A good regimen of meds uses 3 different types of meds). When HIV learns this it becomes "resistant" to that medications. Because HIV is passed person-to-person, HIV has had previous chances to mutate and become resistant. Everyone is tested to determine which meds will be effective before being prescribed.

So if your husband is near the start of his infection, he might have yrs and yrs before starting meds - or he may need to go on them soon. He'll need to start seeing an ID doctor to get more labs to find out the trends of his blood work to know where he is on the graph. Then because of those resistance issues, your husband will have to see a specialist long before he starts meds to have that other blood work done and for the doctor to determine what meds he should use.

make sure to read up as much as y'all can through the LESSONS (http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/Introduction_4702.shtml) section here. there's a lot to know about HIV, treatment, meds, etc. It will be to your best advantage to be knowledgeable about HIV so that you can work well with the doctor. Living further away from a doctor and crossing state line will make everything tricky - but nothing other people aren't doing too, so I know y'all will be handle it too. ;) It's overwhelming at first; but it'll all get better as y'all know more about his condition and can make definite treatment plans.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Online Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: how can they tell time frame-
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2012, 12:39:16 PM »
Even the least populated state has HIV doctors, Blue75. I don't understand why you're having such difficulties locating what you need. But it's true you have to travel a bit in a rural area.

If it makes you feel better two days ago I travelled 2 hours (both ways, public transportation) to go to a specialist for something other than HIV even though I live in the 5th largest city in the US.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline sshortguy1

  • Member
  • Posts: 118
Re: how can they tell time frame-
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2012, 04:41:43 PM »
from reading what others say here HIV is alot like other infections some immune systems can handle infections better than others

Offline weasel

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  • Posts: 1,636
Re: how can they tell time frame-
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2012, 07:50:56 PM »
Even the least populated state has HIV doctors, Blue75. I don't understand why you're having such difficulties locating what you need. But it's true you have to travel a bit in a rural area.

If it makes you feel better two days ago I travelled 2 hours (both ways, public transportation) to go to a specialist for something other than HIV even though I live in the 5th largest city in the US.

   I have to travel    260 miles  round trip to see my   I.D. doctor !   

    I have heard so many opinions on how long  people have had HIV  :-X

     It appears that  whatever  fits the need at the time  works ................ :o

     I hate them all  >:(

                                                                    Weasel   
" Live and let Live "

 


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