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Author Topic: Oral, Fingering and Risk  (Read 2902 times)

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Offline Willmonday

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Oral, Fingering and Risk
« on: April 09, 2012, 12:15:49 PM »
Hello,
Can you clarify if there is ever a reason to be tested after performing unprotected oral sex. Are there certain criteria or situations that you would advise testin?  In a response,  I believe that I read that there is a possibility of contracting HIV by performing unprotected oral on a positive person with a high viral load if the person performing oral has bad dental/oral health.
Or is there never a reason or purpose to test if you only perform unprotected oral?
Thank you in advance for your response.
Will

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Testing For Unprotected Oral
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2012, 01:04:07 PM »
Hi Will,

You would to have very seriously bad oral care in order for there to be the possibility of risk via giving oral. Or a gaping fresh bleeding wound. Otherwise the risk is really only theoretical because your saliva has over a dozen elements and proteins which very effectively prevent the transmission of viable HIV.

If none of the exceptions apply to you then I don't see any need for testing. Other STDs are much easier to acquire including orally, so we do advise anyone who is sexually active to at least annually have a full STD panel done.
Andy Velez

Offline Willmonday

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Re: Testing For Unprotected Oral
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2012, 01:18:42 PM »
Andy,
Thank you for your quick response.  I appreciate your time and attention.
I have two follow-up questions:
I have a white tongue condition, basically my ENT said that at first it could be  thrush but then a senior ENT in the same practice said it was a minor issue and not thrush, just overgrown hair. So can I believe that is not a condition that I should be concerned about in regards to perfroming oral? The partners that I have had oral with do not like to wear condoms during oral.
Based I your reponse, it seeems that the general belief is that testing for oral is not typically warranted or needed. Is that a correct assumption?
Thank you again for your advice.
Will


Offline Ann

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Re: Testing For Unprotected Oral
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2012, 05:40:13 AM »
Will,

Yes, your assumption about testing in direct relation to oral is correct. However, as a sexually active adult, you should be getting a FULL panel of STI testing at least once a year. Twice is better if you are very active with several partners. (And that's NOT a judgement, it's just a fact that the more partners you have, the more potential exposure to STIs you have.)

Treat these sexual health check-ups like you do regular, routine, dental check-ups - you may not have a toothache but you go anyway. It's what responsible adults do to protect and maintain their health.

Most of the other STIs are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv could ever hope to be and yes, you can get things like gonorrhea and chlamydia through oral, both ways. When you get your sexual health check-ups, be sure to get a throat swab. Gonorrhea and chlamydia have NO symptoms in up to 80% of infected people - so the ONLY way to know for sure is to test.

Regarding your white tongue - if it were thrush, it would be painful. Trust me, I've been there, done that - due to antibiotic use (which can cause thrush) but never any sexual activities. I've been getting antibiotic-related thrush since I was a teen - it's nothing to do with hiv.

Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

ALTHOUGH YOU DO NOT NEED TO TEST SPECIFICALLY OVER A BLOWJOB, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Willmonday

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Re: Testing For Unprotected Oral
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2012, 09:19:16 AM »
Ann,
Thank you for your response and advice.
I do test regularly as part of bi-annual physicals. to maintain health and to protect myself and others.
Testing and confusing information out in the world is stressful and can do damage to physical, mental, emotional and mental health.  However. STI's can do more damage.
Thanks for your dedication, expertise and help.
Will

Offline Willmonday

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Oral, Fingering and Risk
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2012, 10:06:28 AM »
Thank you in advance for your guidance.
I am writing for clarity and peace of mind.
I recently had a sexual encounter and seeking your advice on risk and testing.  During the encounter I licked and sucked on my sex partner's shaft and balls. I did not taste any pre-cum on his shaft or balls.  I avoided his penis head at that time. I gave my partner a condom and then proceeded with oral, inserting his head and shaft in my mouth. I'm confident that no cum came out of the condom.My partner fingered me very briefly and not deep, basically just at my anus.  My partner removed the condom and I helped him jerk off.

I believe the encounter was primarily safe sex, is that correct?

What is my risk of contracting HIV through the acts I described and this exposure?

With me licking his balls and shaft,, again I did not taste pre-cum.  If there was any pre-cum would I be at risk or would the virus be dead as it would have encountered air?

With the fingering? I did not see any blood on his finger.

With the oral with the condom on?

Should I test for HIV or is my exposure no risk and doesn't warrant testing?

Should I test for any other STDs?

Any other advice or guidance to provide me?

Thank you again.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Oral, Fingering and Risk
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2012, 03:35:31 PM »
HIV is transmitted by;
Unprotected penetrative anal and/or vaginal sex
Sharing works with other IV drug abusers
Mother to child

At no time did you put yourself at risk of contracting HIV.

Offline Willmonday

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Re: Oral, Fingering and Risk
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2012, 04:40:08 PM »
So, no testing is needed?
Would other moderators respond as well.  Not that I don't trust but in medical situations I believe in a second opinion. As well as know that this is a safe practice as I develop relationships.
Thank you for your help.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Oral, Fingering and Risk
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2012, 06:26:04 PM »
The only confirmed risks for the sexual transmission of HIV are unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse. As long as you consistently use condoms properly for those activities you will be well protected.

Nothing you are reporting would have put you at risk for HIV. Let it go and get on with your life. HIV is not your problem. And as long as you use condoms for intercourse it won't be.
Andy Velez

Offline Willmonday

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Re: Oral, Fingering and Risk
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2012, 06:44:34 PM »
Andy,
Thank you for your response.  I appreciate your guidance. In the future could I perform oral without a condom and still be safe as many don't like condoms during oral.  Is wearing a condom an option in regards to oral?
Thanks,
Will

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Oral, Fingering and Risk
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2012, 08:11:37 PM »
Unless your oral hygiene is a train wreck of Lovecraftian proportions (google "meth mouth") then you have nothing to worry about insofar as giving oral without a condom is concerned.

The qualification we use at AIDSMEDS is based on three distinct and separate studies conducted over the course of two decades with serodiscordant couples. We do not rely on anecdotal evidence insofar as HIV transmission is concerned, especially not now, where the current state of the scientific and epidemiological art is as advanced as it is. With more people living longer and healthier lives, a large enough collection of serodiscordant couples has finally emerged to create blind studies where HIV transmission routes can be studied with scientific quantification.

Here are some of the  scientific findings.


No incident HIV infections among MSM who practice exclusively oral sex.
Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States

Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update
J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228

AIDS:  Volume 16(17)  22 November 2002  pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men

Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan

Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.

Studies which show the fallacy of relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to carefully controlled study insofar as HIV transmission risk is concerned:

Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117

Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;

Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Willmonday

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Re: Oral, Fingering and Risk
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2012, 08:59:29 PM »
Is there anything to avoid when performing oral without a condom i.e deep throatind, or in preparation on oral, i.e. not to brush teeth etc., to be safer??

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Oral, Fingering and Risk
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2012, 09:17:19 PM »
Is there anything to avoid when performing oral without a condom i.e deep throatind, or in preparation on oral, i.e. not to brush teeth etc., to be safer??

Avoid meth mouth. If you are paranoid, then chew gum instead of brushing and flossing before going down on someone if you tend to bleed. Even though the science there is totally theoretical, it's a step you can take to psychologically appease your fears.

In a real world situation, the amount of time it takes to walk back from the bathroom after brushing and flossing ought to be plenty of time for any gingivitis to stop bleeding and your mouth to seal. If not, then I submit that you've got bigger fish to fry than worrying about a theoretical mode of HIV infection.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Willmonday

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  • Posts: 10
Re: Oral, Fingering and Risk
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2012, 09:30:22 PM »
I also wanted to ask about fingering.and fisting.  Safety tips there? If someome has pre-cum or cum on their hand or finger is that a risk and should latex gloves be used?
Thanks again.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Oral, Fingering and Risk
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2012, 09:36:53 PM »
Fingering and fisting are not risks of HIV transmission. Where fisting is a concern, is when the fisted person has received unprotected penetrative anal sex that it may increase the risk of HIV transmission due to tears in the anal membrane from being fisted.

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Oral, Fingering and Risk
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2012, 08:12:15 AM »
Will,

I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep everything in one thread. It doesn't matter how long it has been since you last posted in your thread or if the subject matter is different.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.




Please re-read your entire thread. We've already covered much of this with you already.

Fingering is absolutely NOT a risk for hiv infection, regardless of whatever details you can think up to add.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!!!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Willmonday

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Re: Oral, Fingering and Risk
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2012, 12:09:49 PM »
Ann,
Thank you for your response. I think I just needed the assurance once again as I develop relationships and the act of fingering was new to me.  I also was just a little concerned because my sex partner appears to be avoiding me. So that made me worry. So. Even if he comes and changes his original statements and is HIV positive, my acts were safe, correct and I do not need to worry or test. That is correct? I do test twice a year as part of my biannual checkup.
Thank you again.
Will

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Oral, Fingering and Risk
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2012, 12:42:14 PM »
Will,

Even if he's poz, you haven't had a risk.

Maybe this guy is avoiding you because he's realised he's just not that into you. It happens, you know.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Willmonday

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Re: Oral, Fingering and Risk
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2012, 08:45:26 PM »
Thank you for the advice and guidance on the site. I appreciate your efforts to educate and support the visitors on the site.
My question is not a specific follow-up to my experience but a general question for clarity. I hope this will end confusion and help others.
In regards to performing unprotected oral sex on a man, has there ever been  a confirmed case of HIV transmission in this manner? I heard that there hasn't been a documented cases of HIV transmission in this manner but then the term low risk is used when describing this risk.Please clarify.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Oral, Fingering and Risk
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2012, 08:59:33 PM »
Thank you for the advice and guidance on the site. I appreciate your efforts to educate and support the visitors on the site.
My question is not a specific follow-up to my experience but a general question for clarity. I hope this will end confusion and help others.
In regards to performing unprotected oral sex on a man, has there ever been  a confirmed case of HIV transmission in this manner? I heard that there hasn't been a documented cases of HIV transmission in this manner but then the term low risk is used when describing this risk.Please clarify.

Besides patient report? No confirmed cases in three long term studies of serodiscordant couples and oral sex.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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