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Author Topic: The other side of AIDS?  (Read 4650 times)

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Offline jumpbris

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The other side of AIDS?
« on: April 08, 2012, 07:13:18 AM »
So after testing positive on the ELISA, and WB, and negative on two different rapid tests, I have being doing lots of research on HIV/AIDS/HIV testing.

I have spent hours of reading literature, and published journal articles, and been watching a lot of interviews on YouTube....I am now officially scared...

Here are some of the documentaries that I have come across. I look forward to opinions, and fruitful discussions.
I have being diagnosed to have the world's deadliest virus, and I haven't been at risk. I need help! There is no way I could have been infected.  :(



Edited by Ann to remove links to denialist videos. Repeatedly posting links to denialist materials may cause a person to be permanently banned from these forums.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 08:41:06 AM by Ann »
'People should NEVER stop questioning both sides of a hypothesis.' - Albert Einstein

Offline Ann

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Re: The other side of AIDS?
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2012, 08:51:16 AM »
Jump, every single one of the videos you linked to have been produced by what are known as hiv/aids denialist.

Denialists are extremely dangerous people who have caused the deaths of thousands of people world-wide. We absolutely do not permit these forums to be used in any way, shape or forum as a platform for their lies.

If you want to understand just how wrong and dangerous hiv denialists are - please go to the http://www.aidstruth.org/ website and start reading.

Please do not ever link to any further hiv denialist websites, videos or anything else that they've published or filmed. If you do, you will be permanently banned. Yes, we take keeping their lies off this website that seriously. They will NOT be permitted a platform here.

It's still not clear whether or not you are actually hiv positive. I suggest you keep working with your doctors and get another opinion - as Matty suggested in one of your other threads. In the meantime, you'd be wise to stop paying any attention to what hiv denialist have to say - they have been disproved and discredited again and again.

Instead, do some in-depth reading at the http://www.aidstruth.org/ website.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jumpbris

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Re: The other side of AIDS?
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2012, 08:45:14 PM »
Ann,

I had no idea, I am sorry. I am not a denialist, and in fact refuse to put myself in any group. I am a scientist, and I always question everything. It has always been okay to question all sides of all hypotheses in Science, except for HIV (it seems).

See, if I had put myself at risk, I wouldn't be here today confused, scared, and digging for "the right answers" to my questions. I would have accepted my diagnosis, and get on with life in one way or another. I am not very sexually active, and I have had sex with a handful of people in the last 5 years, ALL PROTECTED. The last time I had unprotected sex was 5 years ago. I asked my doctor, if there is any way that I could have been infected then, and only seroconverted this year, she didn't have any answer for me. In the past 5 years, I have been tested regularly and tested negative.

I live in a small town with only one sexual health clinic, I do not have much options in terms of second opinion hence researching all exisiting hypotheses.
I do not think it's dangerous researching on the side of the hypothesis of HIV, the same way it is not dangerous to question on all hypotheses of all the other branches of Science but I will not comment/post on my findings any more on this forum as it is forbidden.

How can you tell me that it is not clear whether I am positive or not, when my doctor has said categorically a number of times that I am positive and been confirmed by the most advanced confirmatory assay (WB). This is my life that's on the line. I have been told that WB do not lie, and 99.97% accurate.
I keep getting negative results on home-test kits, and my doctor has got no answer for me. They want me to stop questioning and just accept that I have a deadly virus, when there is no way in hell that I could have been at risk.

I think it is very apparent that something is flawed, but no one seem to be able to explain what is, and it is obviously "dangerous" to question/research the "flaws". I am just expected to stop researching, keep my mouth shut, and accept that I am positive.

Thank you for the website that you gave me. I have spent hours reading it, and it didn't answer any of my questions. 
'People should NEVER stop questioning both sides of a hypothesis.' - Albert Einstein

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: The other side of AIDS?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2012, 02:28:37 AM »
I'm not a doctor or medic, but it just ocurred to me: Were you positive on all the bands on the Western Blot test? If not, maybe the doctors can tell you what that means?

Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: The other side of AIDS?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2012, 08:56:15 AM »
Ann,

I had no idea, I am sorry. I am not a denialist, and in fact refuse to put myself in any group. I am a scientist, and I always question everything. It has always been okay to question all sides of all hypotheses in Science, except for HIV (it seems).

I think it is very apparent that something is flawed, but no one seem to be able to explain what is, and it is obviously "dangerous" to question/research the "flaws". I am just expected to stop researching, keep my mouth shut, and accept that I am positive.

Thank you for the website that you gave me. I have spent hours reading it, and it didn't answer any of my questions.

Wow.

Since you seem to be confused let me break it down for you.

HIV is a sexually transmitted infection that can also be transmitted via blood/fluid exchange.  It eventually, without treatment, leads to AIDS in most people.  If you have had a positive test result on an initial test and it was confirmed with a Western Blot, then you have been found to have antibodies to HIV.

Feel free to ask any questions you like, but your commentary sounds incredibly similar to denialist rhetoric.  There is no flaw in the research or our understanding of the virus and the way it works.  We know how HIV is spread, the root cause, the disease progression, and we know how it ends.  We also know the only way to treat it.  I would be glad to answer any of these questions for you.

Offline jumpbris

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Re: The other side of AIDS?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2012, 10:28:32 AM »
Wow.

Since you seem to be confused let me break it down for you.

HIV is a sexually transmitted infection that can also be transmitted via blood/fluid exchange. 

I have had sex with 6 people in the last 5 years, all protected. They have now all been tested, and they are all negative. Not flawed?
How do you explain the negative results on the home-test kits?

Sexually transmitted aye? I have never used IV drugs either. I must have caught it from the air or something.

I came on this website for help, but it seems to be full of bullies, and fear mongering. I am not a denialist, but an optimist.
Science should be discussed and both sides of all stories should be argued, and debated but it is forbidden to have open discussions about HIV.
I don't doubt the existence of HIV. I've worked in pathology laboratories before and I have witnessed misinterpretation of results - this is the flaw that I am trying to bring to the table for some clarity but instead I am called names, and bullied.
I am out of here, feel free to block/delete my account. If there is anything that is dangerous, this forum is. Fear mongering is a crime.

'People should NEVER stop questioning both sides of a hypothesis.' - Albert Einstein

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: The other side of AIDS?
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2012, 11:40:20 AM »

  I'm having a hard time understanding why you're so upset.  :o





I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Ann

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Re: The other side of AIDS?
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2012, 12:05:14 PM »
Jump, I never called you a denialist. I said you posted links to denialist materials - and I deleted the links because they are not permitted here. If I thought you were a denialist I would have simply deleted the whole thread and banned you, end of story.

If you want to explore denialist theories, that's your business - but if you bring links to their lies here, then it become my business as well. Don't post any further denialist links and we'll get on just fine. OK? 

I still think you should be getting a second opinion from another set of blood draws, tests and doctors. This is important stuff, so talking about how you're in a small town doesn't really wash. You're going to have to find a away to travel and have it done - if you want to get to the bottom of what's going on.

If you've not been engaging in any risk behaviours - then there's a good chance that your dealing with a misdiagnosis. As you yourself note, misinterpretations happen.

However, if you've been the recipient of intercourse (rather than always being the insertive partner), perhaps there's been a broken or removed condom you aren't aware of.

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Online Buckmark

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Re: The other side of AIDS?
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2012, 12:11:56 PM »
I have had sex with 6 people in the last 5 years, all protected. They have now all been tested, and they are all negative. Not flawed?
How do you explain the negative results on the home-test kits?

Sexually transmitted aye? I have never used IV drugs either. I must have caught it from the air or something.

The methods by which HIV is transmitted is well known.  If you have questions about your test results you should discuss them with your doctor.

Quote
I came on this website for help, but it seems to be full of bullies, and fear mongering. I am not a denialist, but an optimist.

There's no bullying or fear mongering here.

Quote
Science should be discussed and both sides of all stories should be argued, and debated but it is forbidden to have open discussions about HIV.

Open discussions about HIV are what these forums are all about.  But it is not permitted to question the existence of HIV, or that is causes AIDS.  Science has long established this.

Quote
I don't doubt the existence of HIV. I've worked in pathology laboratories before and I have witnessed misinterpretation of results - this is the flaw that I am trying to bring to the table for some clarity but instead I am called names, and bullied.

Despite that fact that HIV testing has been going on for 25+ years now, you have suddenly discovered some flaws or misinterpretations?   ::)    If that's what you really believe, then you need to do the research and "heavy-lifting" that other scientists have done with their hypotheses, not just come here with what amounts to hand-waving.

Quote
I am out of here, feel free to block/delete my account. If there is anything that is dangerous, this forum is.  Fear mongering is a crime.

Bye.




"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline Joe K

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Re: The other side of AIDS?
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2012, 04:10:04 PM »
I have had sex with 6 people in the last 5 years, all protected. They have now all been tested, and they are all negative. Not flawed?
How do you explain the negative results on the home-test kits?

Sexually transmitted aye? I have never used IV drugs either. I must have caught it from the air or something.

I came on this website for help, but it seems to be full of bullies, and fear mongering. I am not a denialist, but an optimist.
Science should be discussed and both sides of all stories should be argued, and debated but it is forbidden to have open discussions about HIV.
I don't doubt the existence of HIV. I've worked in pathology laboratories before and I have witnessed misinterpretation of results - this is the flaw that I am trying to bring to the table for some clarity but instead I am called names, and bullied.
I am out of here, feel free to block/delete my account. If there is anything that is dangerous, this forum is. Fear mongering is a crime.

You make absolutely no sense in some of your comments.  Scientist?  I think not.  You sound like just another claiming "immaculate infection" when we all know that does not happen.  You never wanted any honest debate, only support for your own myopic views.

There is nothing wrong with this forum.  We rooted out your deception... mission accomplished.

Joe

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: The other side of AIDS?
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2012, 05:47:01 PM »

  He must be on facebook twiddling his thumbs wondering how it all happened..  I don't believe he really had sex with 6 people in the last 5 years....  It's probably more like 2.  By the way,  I used the divide by three for guys theory.

  Multiply by 3 for the op... nevermind.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline HereIAm

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Re: The other side of AIDS?
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2012, 05:43:46 PM »
Dear Jump,

I simply do not understand the denialism or denialists.  The facts seem to be overwhelming proof of the reality of H.I.V. and it being the cause of A.I.D.S.    Study after study confirms this.

And, probably more telling for those of us with the virus is that HAART - the antivirals absolutely combat the virus, beat it down, make us feel better, and make us have in most cases objectively better numbers.

If your plaintive outburst here is about your own grief, fine.  Express that grief!  If it is about your rather muddy sounding diagnosis from your doctor, fine.  Get a second opinion.  Go somewhere else.  I had a ridiculous course of action by so-called good doctors in my little town.  I had to go somewhere else to find experience and credible answers.   

If you want to read the denialist stuff, fine.  I happen to like to read vampire fiction.  But, that is not something I can live on.

If you have a scientific interest, ability and training, which I hope you have all those things, read all the papers.  Find out what's next in the research.  And, then, do it.

If you want to test a formerly proven theory, fine.  Do that too.   After all, the idea of science is that it is repeatable under same/similar conditions.  So, the mounds of scientific evidence will likely stand as is without much material change.

But, that is not to say the last chapter on HIV/AIDS has been written.  It has not.  We, all of humanity, need competent, smart and interested scientists to push forward and develop new treatments, new ways to look at this and the like.  But, please do not try to pull others twenty years back into this epidemic when we didn't know nearly as much as we do now.

Sorry for the partial ranting.  But, I simply do not understand denialists and denialism in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence.
Tested Positive 10 Sept 2008.
24 Sept 2008:  CD 4: 23;   1%;  VL: 770,709
1st Oct 2008:  Started Atripla
4 Dec 2008:  CD 4: 145; 8%, VL: 209
1 March 2009:  CD 4: 91; 8%, VL: 49 (undet)
1 June 2009:  CD 4: 164; 11%, VL: 61
8 July 2011:  CD 4: 286; 17%, VL Undet
28 Oct 2011: CD 4: 346; 21%, VL Undet
2 Mar 2012: CD 4: 316; 20%, VL 6800 (probably an error)
12 Apr 2012: CD 4: 333; 21%, VL Undet

Offline sshortguy1

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Re: The other side of AIDS?
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2012, 12:10:01 PM »
i can understand when it comes to being in denial i have a friend i live with gotten hiv and wanted me to go to his case worker to be tested as well they gave me a oralsure test that came back poz i was like that can't be true it has to be a false poz result but i had to wait 2 -3 weeks later for the western blot test to come back and that came back as poz as well went to the dr and gotten blood work done and at my appt he told me i was poz with cd count 203 with the vl of 500k since i started atripla back in jan my cd went from 203 just 3 from having aids  to 356 with a vl of 150 which im doing a hell of alot better than i thought the meds were going to do if i didn't listen to them and went with my business no telling what would happen

Offline Joe K

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Re: The other side of AIDS?
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2012, 04:22:06 PM »
For me, denialists of HIV fact simply make no sense as they never have any "real" empirical data to back their assertions.  It would be one thing, if they were simply arguing about HIV theory or whatever, but instead they seek to influence people to act against their own best interest.  Most of the extreme denialists are not even poz, so what do they really know.  What we do know, however, is they have influence and their obscene views actually kill people.

We recently lost a member of this forum to the rants of denialists, who convinced him to not treat his HIV infection, until it was far too late.  He was a young man, now gone, deeply influenced by the lies spread by HIV denialists.  I know I speak for a majority of this forum when I state that they are abhorrent people and they will never have any platform here to spread their lies.

Joe 

Offline songs06

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Re: The other side of AIDS?
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2012, 02:48:49 AM »
you have positive elisa and wb but negative home kits? come on man, do you really compare western blot and lousy home kits? if you really have no risk, you should do another elisa, wb or better: PCR. so they can multiply any protein in your blood. you know sexual encounter is not the only way, you also got it by blood transfusion, or even with a single needle accident. (chance: %0.3) so of course history is important to put a clinical diagnosis but if you have the virus in your blood, it is not important how you got it. it is good to be optimistic, but if i were you, i would accept myself positive and go on. otherwise when you really prove you are hiv+, you feel much more depressed for all false hope.

so i think you should go to a private clinic, they can send blood samples to another cities. so you can get tested one more time. (one more elisa and wb)
wb cannot lie (most of the time), you can even see all specific protein of virus. it is not a simple antibody test like elisa, it is really a hard and important test. and only lies when it is indeterminate.

sorry for your diagnosis, but i suggest you to stop checking denialist links and get treatment so you can live healtier and longer. of course you can check any theory you want, but i think it will only make your depression worse.

take care.
18.03.2012 - infected.
14.04.2012 - first positive elisa - UD western blot
30.04.2012 - western blot confirmation positive
03.05.2012 - first lab- CD4: 256   VL: 2.3 M
01.06.2012 - sec lab- CD4: 390 (end of ARS)
01.07.2012 - third lab- CD4: 388 VL: 150.000
11.07.2012 - Started Truvada + Kaletra
04.08.2012 - CD4: 401 VL: 3800
30.09.2012 - CD4: 510 VL: 709
04.01.2013 - CD4: 650 VL: UD! (aka 20)
01.04.2013 - CD4: 460 VL: UD
09.2013 - CD4: 510
02.2014 - CD4: 490

Offline Ann

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Re: The other side of AIDS?
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2012, 06:43:49 AM »

sorry for your diagnosis, but i suggest you to stop checking denialist links and get treatment so you can live healtier and longer. of course you can check any theory you want, but i think it will only make your depression worse.


I'm sorry to report - it's already too late to warn jumpbris away from the denialists. He's already gone over to the Dark Death Side. He hasn't even been back here (at least he hasn't logged on) since minutes after he last posted in this thread.

For that reason, I'm locking this thread. I should have locked it when I first discovered where he went off to - sorry.

I hate seeing people wasting their time and energy on this guy. He remains a member only if in case he wises up, he still has us to come to for support and advice.

He cannot send or receive PMs, so don't waste your time trying to reason with him via PM. I removed his PM privilege so he can't use PMs to lure people (like the newly diagnosed) over to the Dark Death Side without us knowing about it. If he wants to use these forums to spout denialist lies, he will have to do it in public and be banned for it. And he will be banned if he does, trust me.

It's sad. If he genuinely IS hiv positive, I hope he doesn't end up like etay. :(

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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