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Author Topic: Trayvon Martin...  (Read 10800 times)

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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2012, 09:38:44 PM »
Comments from our professional resident Doubters?

linky

Quote
As the Trayvon Martin controversy splinters into a debate about self-defense, a central question remains: Who was heard crying for help on a 911 call in the moments before the teen was shot?

A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.

His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.

Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman. Another expert contacted by the Sentinel, utilizing different techniques, came to the same conclusion.

Zimmerman claims self-defense in the shooting and told police he was the one screaming for help. But these experts say the evidence tells a different story. ...

Owen, a court-qualified expert witness and former chief engineer for the New York Public Library's Rodgers and Hammerstein Archives of Recorded Sound, is an authority on biometric voice analysis — a computerized process comparing attributes of voices to determine whether they match.

After the Sentinel contacted Owen, he used software called Easy Voice Biometrics to compare Zimmerman's voice to the 911 call screams.

"I took all of the screams and put those together, and cut out everything else," Owen says.

The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.

"As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman," Owen says, stressing that he cannot confirm the voice as Trayvon's, because he didn't have a sample of the teen's voice to compare.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #51 on: April 01, 2012, 01:17:58 AM »
Couldn't an audio sample be obtained from home videos of Trayvon speaking? 

Offline J.R.E.

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http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
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Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2012, 09:03:19 AM »
Couldn't an audio sample be obtained from home videos of Trayvon speaking?

Why?

It was Zimmerman who laid claim to ownership of the recorded "HELP!!!!".
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #54 on: April 02, 2012, 01:18:27 AM »
In a nutshell exactly why the police department has not apprehended Mr. Zimmerman.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/4/1/trayvon_martin_law_p/



Barry University Assistant Professor of Law Elizabeth Megale offered some insight into the complexities of enforcing the law.

“When the law changed, basically what the legislature did; it eliminated the duty to retreat. So if you were in fear for your life before 2006, you had a duty to try and get away, get out of the situation. And only if you could not safely leave were you then permitted to act in self-defense,” explained Megale. “Since 2006, you no longer have a duty to retreat. You can stand your ground, meet force with force and if you perceive any reasonable fear you can basically kill someone.”

As for what evidence a prosecutor would need in order to charge Zimmerman, Megale explained what the investigation needs to do.

“It’s hard to say exactly how much they would need, but as a legal matter, what the investigation needs to do is disprove that Zimmerman acted in self-defense. In other words, if there is any sort of conflicting testimony and there is still some evidence that indicates he acted in self-defense, he is entitled to immunity under this law. Immunity means immunity from prosecution and prosecution is defined very broadly as starting at detention,” said Megale. “So, Mr. Zimmerman cannot be detained, taken into custody, arrested, charged or otherwise prosecuted or found guilty if there is any evidence that he acted in self-defense.”

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #55 on: April 02, 2012, 07:15:24 AM »
In a nutshell exactly why the police department has not apprehended Mr. Zimmerman.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/4/1/trayvon_martin_law_p/



Barry University Assistant Professor of Law Elizabeth Megale offered some insight into the complexities of enforcing the law.

“When the law changed, basically what the legislature did; it eliminated the duty to retreat. So if you were in fear for your life before 2006, you had a duty to try and get away, get out of the situation. And only if you could not safely leave were you then permitted to act in self-defense,” explained Megale. “Since 2006, you no longer have a duty to retreat. You can stand your ground, meet force with force and if you perceive any reasonable fear you can basically kill someone.”

As for what evidence a prosecutor would need in order to charge Zimmerman, Megale explained what the investigation needs to do.

“It’s hard to say exactly how much they would need, but as a legal matter, what the investigation needs to do is disprove that Zimmerman acted in self-defense. In other words, if there is any sort of conflicting testimony and there is still some evidence that indicates he acted in self-defense, he is entitled to immunity under this law. Immunity means immunity from prosecution and prosecution is defined very broadly as starting at detention,” said Megale. “So, Mr. Zimmerman cannot be detained, taken into custody, arrested, charged or otherwise prosecuted or found guilty if there is any evidence that he acted in self-defense.”

Thanks for the 4 week old update.

I think where the argument lies is whether or not Zimmerman acted in self defense.....  especially since he was the pursuer and instigator of all actions that transpired in Trayvon's death.  Another problem is the passing of judgement, on a youth passing through the neighborhood for Skittles, simply because he was black.  It is my opinion that had Trayvon been white there would be no incident, but I may be wrong.

I doubt it though....

Holes are slowly being punched through Zimmerman's word on how events transpired.  As Mrs. P's article alluded to, the "help" which Zimmerman when interrogated said was him yelling, is now suspected as being Trayvon.   

It makes me wonder why Zimmerman had to lie about it.  And keep in mind, no witness has come forward supporting Zimmerman's account that Trayvon was beating him, thus making him fear for his life.

He didn't always sport a hoodie:





I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #56 on: April 02, 2012, 10:05:36 AM »
Thanks for the 4 week old update.

I think where the argument lies is whether or not Zimmerman acted in self defense.....  especially since he was the pursuer and instigator of all actions that transpired in Trayvon's death.  Another problem is the passing of judgement, on a youth passing through the neighborhood for Skittles, simply because he was black.  It is my opinion that had Trayvon been white there would be no incident, but I may be wrong.

I doubt it though....

Really, Skeebs?

I don't care how old it is, it explains the actions of the police department which people in this thread don't seem to be comprehending.  This is the law as it stands in Florida and if the police which are under such fire right now were to act without having a mountain of evidence they would just have to turn around and let this guy go anyway.  The outrage at him not yet being arrested seems to be a misunderstanding of how the law works.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #57 on: April 02, 2012, 10:30:14 AM »
Really, Skeebs?

I don't care how old it is, it explains the actions of the police department which people in this thread don't seem to be comprehending.  This is the law as it stands in Florida and if the police which are under such fire right now were to act without having a mountain of evidence they would just have to turn around and let this guy go anyway.  The outrage at him not yet being arrested seems to be a misunderstanding of how the law works.

Yes really Trey....  I think something you're failing to realize is that under the Florida law I can blast some guy in the chest between two houses, without anyone witnessing... I can claim self defense even though I might be lying after chasing some kid who did nothing at all.  Yeah, I can get away with it..  but, this does not make it right.

The cry for help came before the shooting mind you and it's a cry the parents of Trayvon has said was their son's all along.  Mean while, Zimmerman said no, it was him...

The arresting police officer allegedly told a person on the scene that they were going to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter.  One has to wonder if Zimmerman's dad, a judge, had some influence in the case.

It came close to being swept under the rug...  I know how it can bother some people when it becomes what it has.

Don't worry, I forgive you Trey.

I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Jody

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #58 on: April 02, 2012, 12:09:24 PM »
The procedure of continually stopping young black and Latino men and often arresting them, thereby giving these young people a police record, often leads to fewer and even no job opportunities later on.  This perpetuates a society where second class citizenship becomes a reality.

It would certainly appear that this guy Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin and is hiding behind a rather shameless, Neanderthal law in Florida that gives angry people a chance to kill and walk away saying they felt threatened.  No one wants to be the victim of crime but a license to kill a young man wearing a hooded sweatshirt and not engaging in any criminal offense is sad and tragic.

The Florida law needs to be changed but I think we all know that the five conservatives on the US Supreme Court will probably back the law if challenged at the Federal level as politically speaking, justices such as Antonin Scalia will always vote for the conservative position.   Clarence Thomas probably would as well.
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #59 on: April 02, 2012, 08:02:06 PM »
I come from a family of cops, so tend to give some deference to them.  Even with that though, what bothers me here is that the police seemed to take Zimmerman's word for what happened with, at best, a cursory look at the scene. 
Even with this law, I don't see how a proper investigation did not happen - especially when 911 told him NOT to follow him.  It can't possibly be protocol to just take someone's word for how someone was killed.

Mike
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #60 on: April 03, 2012, 12:20:53 AM »
The president of the Florida College of Emergency Physicians says the police station video doesn't show evidence of a broken nose.  However, enhanced video does show a head injury.  But, Trayvon's girlfriend, who was on the phone with him at the time, says Trayvon was worried about this strange man following him.  I would have hit him, too, if he grabbed me--strange man not wearing a security uniform.  I'm sure Zimmerman already had his gun out while following him.  Trayvon was probably in fear of his life.

The sad thing (besides the obvious) is hearing Zimmerman shouldn't have even been allowed to have a conceal-carry license.  He was arrested for "obstructing justice" and "resisting an officer with violence" during an alcohol-control arrest at a college bar.  I'm no FL legal expert, but most people I've seen discuss this and familiar with this kind of charge have said he should have been charged with a felony and it not reduced to a misdemeanor.   

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-case-doctor-sees-evidence-george-zimmerman/story?id=16055412

Modified to add:  Trayvon's girlfriend, who was on the phone with him, still has never been questioned by police.   
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 02:22:36 AM by tednlou2 »

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #61 on: April 06, 2012, 02:36:53 PM »
"Shaken Baby Syndrome" used in defense of Trayvon Martin's killer

Uhrig's choice of words, and use of a recognized sign of child abuse to defend a 28-year-old man who killed a kid, seemed likely to raise more than just a few eyebrows.

... ya think? ::)
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #62 on: April 07, 2012, 05:51:40 AM »
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 05:53:11 AM by J.R.E. »
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline J.R.E.

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  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #64 on: April 07, 2012, 12:59:56 PM »

And in another case, this guy tried to use the "Stand your ground" law, but it didn't work for him:


http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/ot/both/2012/02/21/Donald_Montanez_trial_twists_and_turns


http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/ot/both/2012/02/29/Jury_breaks_for_night_in_murder_trial_of_tow_truck_driver_deliberations_continue_Thurs_



Ray


Here's another example of Florida's  "Stand your ground"
This took place on March 6th,2012, in my town.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2012/4/6/family_impacted_by_s


http://www.change.org/petitions/justice-for-brandon-baker



Ray

Ray,

   Have you heard about the case down there where a man shot and killed another man after they argued about a kid skateboarding on a tennis court?  The lawyer is trying to use the stand your ground defense in that as well.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #65 on: April 07, 2012, 02:41:57 PM »
Ray,

   Have you heard about the case down there where a man shot and killed another man after they argued about a kid skateboarding on a tennis court?  The lawyer is trying to use the stand your ground defense in that as well.


Yes I remember that case too.  That one happened a while back.  Not sure whats going on in that case:

http://www2.tbo.com/news/brandon/2010/sep/27/girl-8-told-mom-about-park-shooting-on-dying-dads--ar-28007/



http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/616220-Trevor-Dooley-shoots-and-kills-David-James.-%28-Black-man-kills-white-man-claims-SD%29


http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/182624/8/Wrongful-death-suit-filed-against-Trevor-Dooley

Ray
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 02:49:44 PM by J.R.E. »
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #66 on: April 08, 2012, 12:24:50 AM »
The Daily Show's "Black Correspondent" Larry Wilmore reports about all the racial claims flying around.  He says with the Stand Your Ground law, all you have to do is tell the police you were standing your ground, and you're automatically given the benefit of the doubt.  But, he asks whether a black man would be given the benefit of the doubt? 

I'm hearing so many on the right saying "liberals" are already wanting to convict Zimmerman.  No.  They are wanting the legal process to take it's course.  Or, in the case, actually begin a course at all.  Hell, I was arrested for my ex lying to police that I stole his stuff and assaulted him.  Arrested with no proof and I had to later give my side of the story and proof.  The homicide detectives wanted to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter.  Within 7 hours, the case was closed.  No forensics--nothing.  I've been reading how so many veteran law enforcement officials in FL say this is highly, highly unusual.  Even with this law, they are saying this should have taken several days to look at the evidence and reach a conclusion whether to charge or not and whether this law was applicable.  So, this law is perfect for anyone wanting to get rid of someone.  Just claim you were standing your ground, automatically get the benefit of the doubt, and a decision decided within 7 hours.     

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-april-4-2012/racist-time-out

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #67 on: April 08, 2012, 02:06:07 PM »
I'm going to jump back into the fray one more time before getting off this train

Again, it doesn't matter about this ridiculous 'stand your ground' law when it comes to Zimmerman establishing an affirmative defense, if he ever gets arrested and it progresses to a criminal trial.  I pointed out the elements necessary for someone to be able to establish "self-defense" as a successful defense.

At common law, a part of "self-defense" was the requirement for a person to "retreat" in order to get away to a place of safety.  Because of the fact that retreating could appear to reek of someone being "cowardly"… some states started coming up for reasons for people to defend themselves when faced with danger.

Be this as it may, it has never been justifiable to use deadly force to defend PROPERTY so some states thought it would be a good idea to expand the law for those situations where you supposedly have the "right" to defend yourself if someone breaks into your house or car while you are in it.

THIS is how this stupid 'stand your ground' law came about.  It never was intended to cover situations where someone was being threatened in an open space where they have the opportunity to "retreat" or flee away from the source of imminent danger.  ONLY in confined spaces would it make more sense to be able to defend yourself in whatever manner because you are "backed into a corner" and need to have the option to do whatever necessary to preserve your own safety.

And as far as that judge who allowed that guy in Miami to walk in that aforementioned situation, you can believe that she really followed the law as per her own interpretation of 'stand your ground' giving a person the right to protect their personal property.

The guy who walked free was the victim of automobile burglary.  He saw the thief stealing his shit and he chased him to get his property back.  Thus under stand your ground, he was protecting something that was rightfully his.  Did he have the right to stab the thief?  Not really since he was not in the car at the time the theft was occurring. But she saw it differently:

Judge Bloom apparently agreed with a medical examiner who testified that a bag of radio swung at a head could cause serious harm or death, and that the defendant Garcia "was well within his rights to pursue the victim and demand the return of his property."

"The law does not allow for you to use deadly force to retrieve your property. She, in effect, is saying that it's appropriate to chase someone down with a knife to get property back," Miami-Dade Chief Assistant State Attorney Kathleen Hoague tells the Herald.


Bottom line: an appellate court will need to re-examine the case to decide if her ruling was indeed, proper.

Which makes me think that there will be no limit to what people feel they can do under this ridiculous law  ::)

Neo-Nazis are currently conducting heavily armed patrols in and around Sanford, Florida and are "prepared" for violence in the case of a race riot.

This is why the media needs to stop printing bullshit so people will stop misinterpreting the facts.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 02:10:26 PM by Solo_LTSurvivor »
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #68 on: April 08, 2012, 06:18:11 PM »
link

And (as if we needed any) as further proof of how absolutely awesome Florida is -- a Fox News affiliate in Orlando today described a Nazi demonstration in Sanford as a "civil rights group"!
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #69 on: April 08, 2012, 06:28:32 PM »
And it just keeps getting better.

Facebook postings provide possible motive for white 19-year-old in Tulsa shootings of black pedestrians

Oklahoma cops on Sunday arrested two white men suspected in a spree of random shootings of black pedestrians in Tulsa that claimed three lives and critically wounded two others.

Jake England, 19, and Alvin Watts, 32, were taken into custody without incident at a Tulsa home early Sunday, following an intense, two-day police investigation.

The Tulsa World reported that Watts shared a home with England.


don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline Ann

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #70 on: April 09, 2012, 06:28:36 AM »
link

And (as if we needed any) as further proof of how absolutely awesome Florida is -- a Fox News affiliate in Orlando today described a Nazi demonstration in Sanford as a "civil rights group"!

Quote


Sorry, the page you requested was not found.


Looks like the article has been pulled - but the broken URL says it all:

Code: [Select]

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/trayvon_martin/040712-Civil-rights-group-patrolling-Sanford




The Tulsa World reported that Watts shared a home with England.


There's something wrong with that linky too. Runtime error? Don't ask me! ~shrug~
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Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mecch

  • Member
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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #71 on: April 09, 2012, 07:02:25 AM »
link

And (as if we needed any) as further proof of how absolutely awesome Florida is -- a Fox News affiliate in Orlando today described a Nazi demonstration in Sanford as a "civil rights group"!
Dire utterly dire.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline J.R.E.

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  • Posts: 7,221
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,951
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2012, 08:11:45 AM »
Well it all makes sense.  New Black Panthers. the neo-nazi National Socialist Movement. Next up I bet will be the New Guardian Angels.....

The Murder of Fred Hampton
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067456/

clip here: http://www.democracynow.org/2009/12/4/the_assassination_of_fred_hampton_how

entire movie can be watched on youtube.


If I had money I would buy the rights to Hampton's story and make a big budget pic about it. It would be explosive, make everybody a bit uncomfortable, and a lot of people could get a good history lesson, too.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 08:54:04 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #74 on: April 09, 2012, 11:49:11 AM »
There's something wrong with that linky too. Runtime error? Don't ask me! ~shrug~

Strange.  It works now.  Maybe they were updating it when you were viewing?

Content snatched for your perusal:

The shootings were a day after 2-year anniversary of slaying of suspect's father

Tulsa police have arrested two white men who are accused of killing three black residents and injuring two others in a shooting spree that authorities deemed "unprecedented."

Jake England, 19, and Alvin Watts, 32, were arrested at 1:47 a.m. Sunday, about 48 hours after police began discovering gunshot victims in a three-mile area of north Tulsa.

The pair were found together in a neighborhood near where the shootings occurred after police received several anonymous tips that England was the shooter, according to arrest reports.

"It is way too early to call this a hate crime," Federal Bureau of Investigation agent James Finch said at a Sunday afternoon news conference. "We have yet to analyze all the information to understand the motivations in this case.

"This is where the really tough work starts in the investigation. This is where we can’t afford to make mistakes," he said.

The FBI was called to assist with the case.

Finch asked that people keep in mind the victims. "No family should be subjected to this," he said.

"Hopefully … this (arrests) adds some degree of closure for the families.

Dannaer Fields, 49, Bobby Clark, 54 and William Allen, 31, were identified as those who died after three separate shootings Friday.

Two other men were wounded in a fourth shooting but were expected to survive. They have not been identified.

The arrests came less than 12 hours after authorities formed a task force called Operation Random Shooter, which consisted of 30 investigators from the Tulsa Police Department, the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office, the U.S. Marshals Service and the FBI.

At a press conference Saturday, Tulsa police Chief Chuck Jordan called the attacks vicious and cowardly and said his agency was going to do whatever it takes to apprehend anyone involved.

“Our sympathy goes out to the families of the victims and we hope that our efforts can bring some resolution and closure to these heinous acts,” police said in a news release Sunday.

Community leaders in north Tulsa and a representative of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People said Friday that it seemed as though the shootings were racially-motivated.

Jordan said Saturday that there was no evidence for that, but that it was a logical explanation. Police did not address the motivation for the shootings early Sunday.

A man who is identified on Jake England’s Facebook page as his father, Carl England, was fatally shot April 5, 2010, at Comanche Park Apartments, 3608 N. Quaker Ave. Carl England's death was about a quarter-mile east of where Allen's body was found early Friday, according to the Tulsa World archives.

The man arrested in Carl England's death, Pernell Demond Jefferson, was charged with pointing a firearm and is serving a prison sentence through October 2014, according to Department of Corrections records.

Jefferson is black.

Jake England makes several references to the two-year anniversary of his father’s death on his Facebook page, including a post 3:04 p.m. Thursday that says, “Today is two years that my dad has been gone shot by a f------ n----- it's hard not to go off between that and sheran I'm gone in the head.”

England’s Facebook page indicates that his girlfriend, Sheran Hart Wilde, recently died. Her death notice was published Jan. 12 in the Tulsa World.

Fields, Clark and Allen were likely killed early Friday, police said. Fields’ body was discovered about 1 a.m. in a yard in the 1000 block of East 51st Place North. Clark’s body was found about 1:50 a.m. in another yard in the 300 block of West 63rd Street North and Allen’s body was found about 8:30 a.m. in the 800 block of East 36th Street North.

The two men who survived were found in the street in the 1300 block of East 51st Place North three minutes after police found Fields’ body.

Willingham said early Sunday that he could not confirm whether revenge was a motive. Police had previously said that the victims had no apparent connection to each other.

At 10:15 p.m. Friday, Jake England posted on Facebook, “Chilling at that house people talking s--- on me for some s--- I didn't do ... it just mite be the time to call it quits I I hate to say it like that but I'm done if something does happen tonite be ready for another funeral later.”

Alvin Watts, who is Jake England’s friend on Facebook, has frequently posted to England’s Facebook page since January. His posts seem to be aimed at encouraging England not to be down in the wake of the deaths in his life.

Tulsa jail records list the same home address for Watts and England in the 2800 block of East 61st Street North.

Authorities served a search warrant at the residence before further surveillance led them early Sunday to a neighborhood about a mile west, according to their arrest report.

The location of their arrest as shown in their arrest report does not correspond to a residence, according to Tulsa County property records. The report says they were found in the 6200 block of North Yorktown Avenue.

Watts' Facebook page says he lives in Sperry, is from Muskogee and attended Muskogee High School. His arrest report lists his next of kin as his brother in Sperry.

England's Facebook page says he is from Tulsa and attended Sperry High School.

According to the arrest reports, several people who called the Tulsa Crime Commission's anonymous Crime Stoppers tip line Saturday reported that England was responsible for the shootings.

Callers said he owned a white pickup and intended to burn it.

Osage County deputies found a burned white pickup near 6000 N. Osage Drive about 6 p.m. Saturday, the reports say. The truck's registration checked to Jacob or Carl England, the arrest reports say.

England and Watts were booked into the Tulsa Jail without bail on three complaints of first-degree murder, two complaints of shooting with intent to kill and a complaint of possession a firearm in commission of a felony.

Jake England's first name is listed in jail records as Jacob.


THIS STORY WILL BE UPDATED

« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 11:51:17 AM by Solo_LTSurvivor »
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #75 on: April 09, 2012, 11:56:06 AM »

http://hinterlandgazette.com/2012/04/fox-orlando-affiliate-calls-neo-nazi-group-patrolling-sanford-civil-rights-group.html

Thanks, Ray.

Strange.  It works now.  Maybe they were updating it when you were viewing?

Content snatched for your perusal:

It's working for me now too. Yep, it musta been something to do with their website. Thanks though, I like a good snatch now and then!
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,705
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #76 on: April 09, 2012, 12:13:46 PM »
 :D
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline zach

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,622
  • built to last
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #77 on: April 09, 2012, 09:20:05 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/george-zimmerman-launches-website-soliciting-donations-via-paypal-223721709.html


in case anyone feels compelled to help zimmerman out with his expenses in these difficult and trying times
gonna go up to the mountain, for to find a little peace
looking over the valley, for the beauty i see
out across the hills, forevermore

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,136
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #78 on: April 09, 2012, 11:34:35 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/george-zimmerman-launches-website-soliciting-donations-via-paypal-223721709.html


in case anyone feels compelled to help zimmerman out with his expenses in these difficult and trying times

Oh brother.

Offline Ann

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  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #79 on: April 10, 2012, 07:46:56 AM »
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/george-zimmerman-launches-website-soliciting-donations-via-paypal-223721709.html


in case anyone feels compelled to help zimmerman out with his expenses in these difficult and trying times

Has this jerk even been arrested yet?

(from the link...) As a result of the incident and subsequent media coverage, I have been forced to leave my home, my school, my employer, my family and ultimately, my entire life.

Tough shit. He's still living, which is more than can be said for his victim.

What a self-pitying fool - typical criminal mind.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline MarkB

  • Member
  • Posts: 292
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #80 on: April 10, 2012, 09:05:40 AM »
(also from the link:)

Quote
On Sunday February 26th, I was involved in a life altering event [...]

What Ann said: it was a life-altering event for Trayvon Martin too.

Offline Joe K

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,815
  • 31 Years Poz
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #81 on: April 10, 2012, 11:27:47 AM »
I think Mr. Zimmerman is mistaken.  Yes he did have a life-altering event, however, his victim had a life-ending event.

Ever since this became public, I have had this sinking feeling that since the Sanford police didn't bother to really investigate, that a lot of evidence necessary for prosecution, was never collected and now it's too late.

Joe

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • Posts: 24,246
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #82 on: April 10, 2012, 04:44:54 PM »
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 05:47:48 PM by Miss Philicia »
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline zach

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,622
  • built to last
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #83 on: April 10, 2012, 05:26:42 PM »
@ann, no, he hasn't been arrested, and his current location is unknown

unfortunately i agree with joe, it will end up to be to little to late

my fear is that no matter how good a job a prosecutor eventually does, one juror is all it will take to nullify and hang any decision
gonna go up to the mountain, for to find a little peace
looking over the valley, for the beauty i see
out across the hills, forevermore

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,951
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #84 on: April 10, 2012, 08:34:26 PM »
They will go to lawyer hell for those hideous shameless statements.

Whether or not Zimmerman is legally protected and can get off this rap because of bad laws or police ineptitude, I do agree the case has already been tried.  He shouldn't have followed Martin, and especially not after having called the police AND the police telling him not to follow. 

How on earth does his (ex?) team expect to argue that Martin swung first and was the aggressor.  The mind boggles.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,176
  • Twerk Baby Twerk
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #85 on: April 10, 2012, 08:45:28 PM »

How on earth does his (ex?) team expect to argue that Martin swung first and was the aggressor.  The mind boggles.

The same way the defense (for Murray) attempted to say a comatose Michael Jackson injected himself with that fatal dosage of drugs.
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline J.R.E.

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,221
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #86 on: April 10, 2012, 09:01:14 PM »

http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/4/10/george_zimmerman_web


State attorney to break silence within 72 hours


SANFORD --

The state attorney handling the Trayvon Martin case says she will hold a news conference with new information soon.

Angela Corey's office announced Tuesday night that Corey will hold a news conference within the next 72 hours. The newsmedia will only get three hours notice ahead of the news conference. The announcement also said the news conference would be in either Jacksonville or Sanford.

Again, the announcement also said Corey would release new information.
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,705
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #87 on: April 11, 2012, 09:23:09 AM »
http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/4/10/george_zimmerman_web


State attorney to break silence within 72 hours


SANFORD --

The state attorney handling the Trayvon Martin case says she will hold a news conference with new information soon.

Angela Corey's office announced Tuesday night that Corey will hold a news conference within the next 72 hours. The newsmedia will only get three hours notice ahead of the news conference. The announcement also said the news conference would be in either Jacksonville or Sanford.

Again, the announcement also said Corey would release new information.

Interesting...  I'm curious to hear what this new information could be. 
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Ann

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  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #88 on: April 11, 2012, 09:35:07 AM »
***BREAKING*** Zimmerman's legal team has quit

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-attorney-hold-press-conference-4-30pm-203437097.html

(from the linked article) "It's no so much that we are resigning. It's that we cannot continue to represent him until he comes forward," said attorney Craig Sonner.

Sonner and Uhrig say they have been unable to contact Zimmerman since Sunday, when he stopped returning their phone calls.


Aw, gee, maybe someone shot Zimmerman while he was walking back from a convenience store with his soft-drink and candy?

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline RAB

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,895
  • Joined March 2003
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #89 on: April 11, 2012, 02:32:58 PM »
NBC is reporting that the special prosecutor will bring charges forward on Zimmerman.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/11/11144255-nbc-george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-case?lite


Offline J.R.E.

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,221
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #90 on: April 11, 2012, 05:43:10 PM »
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 05:49:04 PM by J.R.E. »
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,176
  • Twerk Baby Twerk
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #91 on: April 11, 2012, 06:27:52 PM »
BREAKING...

Zimmerman charged with 2nd-degree murder

From the FL Penal Code

(2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 06:51:03 PM by Solo_LTSurvivor »
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,176
  • Twerk Baby Twerk
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #92 on: April 12, 2012, 01:16:59 AM »
If it doesn't fit, you must acquit.

According to his new attorney, Mark O'Mara, Zimmerman plans to plead not guilty to murder



don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline J.R.E.

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,221
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #93 on: April 12, 2012, 07:32:00 AM »
« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 07:36:48 AM by J.R.E. »
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,705
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #94 on: April 12, 2012, 03:20:14 PM »



   It's not my usual thang to make fun of the way someone looks, but....

   

    I can sorta see why he couldn't make the small town police force....  Maybe it's the weight loss from his "life changing experience" on Febuary 26th...

    Wadyaknow, looks like Trey was wrong. :)
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,136
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #95 on: April 12, 2012, 03:35:04 PM »


   It's not my usual thang to make fun of the way someone looks, but....

   

    I can sorta see why he couldn't make the small town police force....  Maybe it's the weight loss from his "life changing experience" on Febuary 26th...

    Wadyaknow, looks like Trey was wrong. :)

about what?

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,705
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #96 on: April 12, 2012, 03:37:16 PM »
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,136
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #97 on: April 12, 2012, 03:38:51 PM »
What do you mean?

"Wadaya know, looks like Trey was wrong"

What was I wrong about?

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,705
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #98 on: April 12, 2012, 03:41:31 PM »
"Wadaya know, looks like Trey was wrong"

What was I wrong about?

How do you know you're the Trey I'm talking about?
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,136
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #99 on: April 12, 2012, 03:43:34 PM »
How do you know you're the Trey I'm talking about?

...

 


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