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Author Topic: Trayvon Martin...  (Read 9450 times)

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Offline OneTampa

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  • "Butterflies are free."
Trayvon Martin...
« on: March 24, 2012, 07:26:18 PM »
A few swirling emotions that I can barely type to name after reading/seeing news reports, talking and listening with/to family, friends, others:

( Anger
( Frustration
( Sadness
( Determination 

Could have been me, you, your child, friend, or other family member killed.

« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 08:43:15 AM by OneTampa »
"He is my oldest child. The shy and retiring one over there with the Haitian headdress serving pescaŪto frito."

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2012, 07:54:08 PM »
Innocent until proven black.

MtD

Offline J.R.E.

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,095
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2012, 08:28:08 PM »


This is such a horrific tragedy. Everything has been botched or covered up, since the day the young man was murdered by George Zimmerman.  Have to wait now for the justice dept, and grand jury.  I believe this young man was hunted down, like an animal, even after 911 told Zimmerman not to follow him.

There was a rally today in Tampa....:

http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2012/3/23/local_group_to_rally
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 6/4/14,  t-cells are at 423, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 13% 

  
 62 years young.

Offline J.R.E.

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  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 6/4/14,  t-cells are at 423, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 13% 

  
 62 years young.

Offline denb45

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  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2012, 08:31:38 PM »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline J.R.E.

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  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 6/4/14,  t-cells are at 423, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 13% 

  
 62 years young.

Offline J.R.E.

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,095
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2012, 08:34:08 PM »
Blame it on Jeb Bush, he was the person that made 'stand your ground" into law wasn't he?

Yes,  With the NRA right over his shoulder and smiling as he signed it into law


Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 6/4/14,  t-cells are at 423, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 13% 

  
 62 years young.

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • Posts: 23,883
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2012, 08:35:29 PM »
Thank goodness for Florida's Stand Your Ground law.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2012, 08:36:30 PM »
Blame it on Jeb Bush, he was the person that made 'stand your ground" into law wasn't he?

This man actually wrote the law.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline J.R.E.

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  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2012, 08:36:37 PM »
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 6/4/14,  t-cells are at 423, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 13% 

  
 62 years young.

Offline emeraldize

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,334
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2012, 08:37:13 PM »
Between Geraldo Rivera's inane commentary attributing blame to the child having worn a hoodie to the Black Panther bounty, and all the activism online and on the streets and campuses nationwide, Zimmerman is not going to escape some form of process. Given a choice, I'd take the legal system over the Panthers' system. No matter where he goes, no matter what the outcome, he'll be seeking, if not begging for, solitary confinement. This will not be forgotten..

http://blog.sfgate.com/hottopics/2012/03/24/new-black-panthers-offer-10000-bounty-for-trayvon-martin-shooter/?tsp=1

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2012, 08:54:38 PM »
Awesome. The New Black Panthers are on the move -- surely this will excite Fox News viewers. Is this the first opening in the upcoming race war the right has warned about?

My fellow Americans,

It is time to prepare for the upcoming race wars. Protect yourself and your family. And, most importantly, send cash ASAP to 800-RON-PAUL.


http://graphics.thomsonreuters.com/11/12/Solicitation2.pdf
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline J.R.E.

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  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2012, 09:07:05 PM »

Did George Zimmerman's Daddy, help to get him out of this? :

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002462631

Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 6/4/14,  t-cells are at 423, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 13% 

  
 62 years young.

Offline skeebo1969

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  • Posts: 5,699
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2012, 10:26:27 AM »
A few swirling emotions that I can barely type to name after reading/seeing news reports, talking and listening with/to family, friends, others:

( Anger
( Frustration
( Sadness
( Determination 

Could have been me, you, your child, friend, or other family member killed.


The pain of his loss to his parents is only magnified from the unjust mishandling of this case, very sad.  I also found it disturbing that the police took his body (a child) and tagged it as John Doe.  This while he had a cell phone on him, which he was talking on before being shot in the heart.  His father, a mere two blocks over visiting friends, had to report his son as missing. 
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline emeraldize

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2012, 10:37:06 AM »
The pain of his loss to his parents is only magnified from the unjust mishandling of this case, very sad.  I also found it disturbing that the police took his body (a child) and tagged it as John Doe.  This while he had a cell phone on him, which he was talking on before being shot in the heart.  His father, a mere two blocks over visiting friends, had to report his son as missing.

I did not know this. How dreadful for the family.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2012, 01:27:29 PM »
Thank goodness for Florida's Stand Your Ground law.

Blame it on Jeb Bush, he was the person that made 'stand your ground" into law wasn't he?

It was signed by the Gov after it was passed unanimously by the Senate, including a majority of Dems. And Beware folks, this Stand your Ground law (above and beyond the Castle Doctrine) exists in some form or another in most states, so maybe now is the time to get writing to your senators.

Who exactly has invoked this "Stand your ground" defense? J Bush and even Zimmermanns atty doesnt think it applies. Was it the Police Dept?

Also, just because Zimmermann hasnt been arrested yet, doesnt mean he has escaped prosecution. There is still Dept of Justice and FBI investigations that have commenced. As such, groups of individuals putting out bountys on a citizen is not helping matters.

« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 01:29:04 PM by WillyWump »
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Offline J.R.E.

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2012, 05:15:05 PM »
http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/3/23/stand_your_ground_la


It appears that Ex-Ex Gov Jeb Bush, has made a statement on this:

The governor who sign the bill into law is speaking out.

"It appears to me that this law does not apply to this particular circumstance. Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn't mean chase after someone who has turned their back," said former Governor Jeb Bush.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 06:00:18 PM by J.R.E. »
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 6/4/14,  t-cells are at 423, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 13% 

  
 62 years young.

Offline zach

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  • Posts: 1,236
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2012, 06:26:17 PM »
stand your ground is being misapplied in this case, it will not hold up as a legitimate defense. a persuer has no right to stand his ground, to stop another citizen, or to use force in the absense a reasonable preceived threat. make no mistake about it, zimmerman broke the law. he will be arrested, charged, and tried.

my worry is the jury.

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2012, 06:36:11 AM »
I only found out about this situation when I read this thread - it doesn't seem to have made the news on this side of the pond. (and if it did, I was oblivious anyway as I had last week off and stayed off the internet for days and didn't watch news reports or buy any newspapers... it was bliss but I digress)

But now that it has come to my attention (thank you, Mr. Tampa) I am absolutely appalled. Much of what I've read seems to be attacks on Trayvon's character. Opinions that he "deserved" what he got because .... because he was a kid. And his skin was black. And he was wearing a hoodie. And he got suspended from school for ... well, for being an ordinary teenager, doing things that kids do when in high school.

Why is it that so few articles point out the fact that Trayvon wasn't armed? What the hell is America coming to when a young kid can be shot and killed for walking down the street - unarmed?

You know what this reminds me of? It reminds me of how victims of rape have their sexual history picked over in court. This kid didn't do anything that many other kids have done - white kids, black kids, hispanic kids; KIDS. Young human beings.

Yet far too many are focusing on Treyvon's actions in his childhood, when the focus should be on the man who wielded the gun that took Treyvon's life.

If there ever was a situation that proved how stupid the lax gun laws are in the US, this is the one. When a person in the Neighbourhood Watch can take the law into his own hands - when someone isn't even breaking any laws - and KILL a CHILD... good lord, when are people going to wake up?

But back to the similarities to this situation and a rape situation. A person who has been raped and presses charges usually has to defend their sexual history - as if enjoying sex if a crime and therefore they deserve what they get.

Same thing with Treyvon. So what if he smoked the occasional doobie? So what if he had a photo taken with him wearing a grill? (a crime against fashion, sure, but does it deserve the death penalty?) So what if he got suspended from school for doing something stupid?

How does that make it right for him to be shot and killed on a street while he was minding his own business?

I'm a person who more often than not wears a hoodie when I'm out and about. I'll remember to never wear one if I ever visit the US - it's just not worth getting shot over. I've also been suspended from high school and smoked a doobie or two - obviously more marks against me. But then again, I'm white so maybe I'll be ok.

Zimmerman - and others of his ilk - should be locked up. The killing of Treyvon was MURDER in cold blood and should be treated as such. I can't believe Zimmerman hasn't been arrested and charged.

Zimmerman didn't "stand his ground". He chased down and murdered - MURDERED - an unarmed boy.
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Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2012, 03:26:56 PM »
Well lets hope nobody drinks this right-wing Kool-aid:

http://gawker.com/5896490/your-guide-to-the-idiotic-racist-backlash-against-trayvon-martin?tag=trayvon-martin

Your Guide to the Idiotic Racist Backlash Against Trayvon Martin

For a minute there, it looked like Trayvon Martin might avoid the kind of horseshit thunderstorm that tends to accompany the shooting deaths of unarmed African-Americans. It seemed like everyone agreed that the police had fucked up. Fox News had only one segment on the killing in the weeks following. Not even white racists wanted to defend Martin's killer, George Zimmerman: when I wrote about the case last week, the worst response I got was from one particularly dedicated nutcase, who set up a Twitter account to harass me for not properly specifying that Zimmerman is Hispanic.

But the horseshit is raining down now, helped along by a desperate Sanford Police Department doing everything it can to make Martin look like he deserved to die, and by the champion point-missers of the internet right wing, who hardly need convincing that a 17-year-old black kid was up to no good.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2012, 03:59:31 PM »
Well lets hope nobody drinks this right-wing Kool-aid:

Of course they are -- I just spent a couple hours countering on another (and gay one at that) web forum. Nothing like a bunch of old white (Red state usually) queens parroting crap they read on right wing web sites.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline mecch

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2012, 04:26:37 PM »
Well haven't any respectable big shit star lawyers stepped up for his parents?  We don't need another Al Sharpton side show attracting all the attention. 
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2012, 04:34:02 PM »
So we're going to pile on Rev. Sharpton now are we? That's exactly what those old (white) queens were doing on that gay message forum I mentioned.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2012, 04:59:27 PM »
The case may be taking a turn and this also makes sense of why the police haven't arrested Zimmerman yet.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-case-20120326,0,4845076.story

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2012, 05:09:12 PM »
The case may be taking a turn and this also makes sense of why the police haven't arrested Zimmerman yet.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-case-20120326,0,4845076.story

That's dated March 26, 2012 -- there have been several sources stating the opposite today. Now go and turn off Fox News.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Online Jeff G

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2012, 05:17:12 PM »
The case may be taking a turn and this also makes sense of why the police haven't arrested Zimmerman yet.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-case-20120326,0,4845076.story

It makes no sense at all . So what if Zimmerman got the shit kicked out of him by Trayvon ... The young man was being stalked and attempted to fight back , and I might add the video sure didn't show a beat up Zimmerman in the police garage .   

The bottom line is that Zimmerman made a fatal mistake and killed an unarmed kid that was walking home from the store . If a guy with a gun came at me in the dark without so much as a shirt on that marked him as a security officer or neighbor hood watch association identification I would be fighting for my life just as the young man did . There is no excuse for a dead child in this situation period . 
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 05:19:50 PM by jg1962 »

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2012, 05:36:57 PM »

Zimmerman - and others of his ilk - should be locked up. The killing of Treyvon was MURDER in cold blood and should be treated as such. I can't believe Zimmerman hasn't been arrested and charged.

Zimmerman didn't "stand his ground". He chased down and murdered - MURDERED - an unarmed boy.

Agreed.

I know I am in the minority but I don't care if Martin was kicking the crap out of Zimmerman, that doesn't mean Zimmerman is morally justified in killing Martin.

This incident reminds me of a visit from my partner's parents. We live in a quiet, suburban cul-de-sac and we were about to go for a walk around the neighborhood when my partner's father asked for us to wait a moment while he got his handgun. I asked why he needed a gun. He said we could be robbed by a stranger, a ridiculous notion given our neighborhood and I told him as much. He then said we might need it if a mean dog tried to attack us. I asked him if he really intended to shoot our neighbor's dog and pointed out if he missed he could accidentally shoot into a house.  He started to talk about his right to carry a gun and I told him I was not questioning his rights but his judgment. I asked "can you think of some other way we can safely walk our neighborhood without the possibility of you killing something?" He brought pepper spray instead.

I don't own a gun because I don't want to shoot people. People think having a gun makes you more safe but I believe it only increases that probability that someone will inadvertently be hurt. People like my partner's father just act out of fear and don't think things through. If Zimmerman had been carrying pepper spray instead of a gun that boy would not be dead.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2012, 05:44:58 PM »
Wow Ford, what does your partner's father do when he finds himself downtown in a very large city?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2012, 05:47:54 PM »
Well haven't any respectable big shit star lawyers stepped up for his parents?  We don't need another Al Sharpton side show attracting all the attention.

The case wouldn't have received the attention it has without Al Sharpton. You are doing exactly what the right is trying to do. Negate the case by changing the focus.

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2012, 06:16:34 PM »
Oh brother, all I did was point to an article that perhaps contradicts the image you are painting of the case.  No need to jump into a frenzied rage of political name calling, it's far too soon for that.  None of us were there, none of us know what's going on, and unless some really concrete facts emerge on the case perhaps we'll never know.

Obviously the young man didn't deserve to die.  Obviously Zimmerman shouldn't have been following him.  It's a tragedy but anyone who pretends to know the exact circumstances of what happened is jumping to conclusions.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2012, 06:19:07 PM »

that doesn't mean Zimmerman is morally justified in killing Martin.


Morally no. Legally, in Florida possibly. But there is a continuum of force "ladder" that must be followed to get to deadly force, meaning that you can only use  just enough force to overcome or repel an attack and no more. If Martin slapped Zimmerman, then Zimmerman could not use deadly force, but he could slap him back or punch him, (jsut enought to repel the attack )etc.. etc..., and if the fight escalates to punching and kicking, choking, and the victim could not get away AND was in fear for his life then deadly force could be used. This is taught , clearly in more detail, in Conceal Carry classes, and Im assuming Zimmerman had a permit to carry and took the class.

BUT, by Zimmerman disregarding the Police dispatchers order to "not to follow" Martin, Zimmerman in that instant became the aggressor. and none of the above or any self defense claim can be asserted by Zimmerman...unless, if Zimmerman was walking back to his vehicle and was then attacked by Martin.

There is still so much in play here, witnesses, forensic evidence, etc...and I am looking forward to seeing it all laid out.

What's disheartening is to see the circus atmosphere and mob mentality take hold, Bounties put on Zimmer's head (is this America?), Public Figures such as Spike Lee Tweeting wrong addresses of Zimmerman to his fans and causing innocent elderly people to have to leave their house out of fear.

-W
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Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2012, 06:56:00 PM »
Wow Ford, what does your partner's father do when he finds himself downtown in a very large city?

He carries the gun and, by his own account, he has pulled it on people. It is a disaster waiting to happen.

Offline denb45

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2012, 07:24:46 PM »
He carries the gun and, by his own account, he has pulled it on people. It is a disaster waiting to happen.

Are you sure he's not related to Zimmerman  ::) I do own a gun but I only have it in the safe, I don't have a concealed weapons license, and as a civilian, I  don't really see the need for one, but to each his own  ;)
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2012, 07:42:27 PM »
Hey Wumpy -- do you spend $35 for an NRA membership?
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Offline mecch

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2012, 07:43:00 PM »
I want investigations and justice for Martin and his family.  Sharpton has been a charlatan since Wappingers Falls and he tarnishes any situation he touches.  Its not racist to think he pulls the discourse down.
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Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2012, 08:10:23 PM »


  Sharpton has been a charlatan since Wappingers Falls and he tarnishes any situation he touches.

It depends on which side of the yard you lay on..  I'm sure the Martin family doesn't share your opinion.



I only found out about this situation when I read this thread - it doesn't seem to have made the news on this side of the pond. (and if it did, I was oblivious anyway as I had last week off and stayed off the internet for days and didn't watch news reports or buy any newspapers... it was bliss but I digress)

But now that it has come to my attention (thank you, Mr. Tampa) I am absolutely appalled. Much of what I've read seems to be attacks on Trayvon's character. Opinions that he "deserved" what he got because .... because he was a kid. And his skin was black. And he was wearing a hoodie. And he got suspended from school for ... well, for being an ordinary teenager, doing things that kids do when in high school.

Why is it that so few articles point out the fact that Trayvon wasn't armed? What the hell is America coming to when a young kid can be shot and killed for walking down the street - unarmed?

You know what this reminds me of? It reminds me of how victims of rape have their sexual history picked over in court. This kid didn't do anything that many other kids have done - white kids, black kids, hispanic kids; KIDS. Young human beings.

Yet far too many are focusing on Treyvon's actions in his childhood, when the focus should be on the man who wielded the gun that took Treyvon's life.

If there ever was a situation that proved how stupid the lax gun laws are in the US, this is the one. When a person in the Neighbourhood Watch can take the law into his own hands - when someone isn't even breaking any laws - and KILL a CHILD... good lord, when are people going to wake up?

But back to the similarities to this situation and a rape situation. A person who has been raped and presses charges usually has to defend their sexual history - as if enjoying sex if a crime and therefore they deserve what they get.

Same thing with Treyvon. So what if he smoked the occasional doobie? So what if he had a photo taken with him wearing a grill? (a crime against fashion, sure, but does it deserve the death penalty?) So what if he got suspended from school for doing something stupid?

How does that make it right for him to be shot and killed on a street while he was minding his own business?

I'm a person who more often than not wears a hoodie when I'm out and about. I'll remember to never wear one if I ever visit the US - it's just not worth getting shot over. I've also been suspended from high school and smoked a doobie or two - obviously more marks against me. But then again, I'm white so maybe I'll be ok.

Zimmerman - and others of his ilk - should be locked up. The killing of Treyvon was MURDER in cold blood and should be treated as such. I can't believe Zimmerman hasn't been arrested and charged.

Zimmerman didn't "stand his ground". He chased down and murdered - MURDERED - an unarmed boy.

Well said and I agree 100%!


I also find it rather ironic (not really) that the reports about Martin's past and pictures from his twitter account were originally leaked by a member of the Sanford police department.  The same department that is currently under fire for the way they mishandled things from the beginning.   The information about the  beating of Mr. Zimmerman by Trayvon Martin just happens to come forth about the same time.  Neither bits of info mentioned early on...

I would say the pressures on a bit...

Speaking of the pictures of Trayvon, they said he was making gang signs.  I saw them and it looked a lot like the middle finger, aka shooting the bird to me.  I've seen plenty of kids take pics like that, but this is the first time I've seen them called called gang signs.

How convenient....
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Offline WillyWump

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2012, 08:33:03 PM »
Hey Wumpy -- do you spend $35 for an NRA membership?

Alas, It was only a matter of time for this particular hijack.

I am not a member of the NRA, I do own a gun (a couple), The only time I have taken a gun out of my residence in the last 15 years was during moves. I would never carry a gun on my person outside of my residence for safety, too much liability, to much to worry about. That said, I dont have a prob with the concealed weapons law.

I refuse to apologize to anyone for my gun ownership ;)

and I think Zimmerman may be guilty of manslaughter/, but I want to see the facts. Unlike some others I see on the news.

-W

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Offline tednlou2

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2012, 08:52:05 PM »
As I understand it, you only have to "feel" threatened.  What does that mean?  I'm in a parking garage at night and someone walks up to me to ask how to get to a restaurant.  I feel they look suspicious, so I can shoot them.  If you think that's not enough, how bout a disagreement over who got to the parking spot first.  A lady gets out to tell me I jumped ahead of her.  I can shoot her, because I feel threatened.  The other person will be dead, so just your word against a dead person, who obviously can't speak.  I believe shooting deaths have gone up either three or four fold in Florida. 

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2012, 09:01:11 PM »
I want investigations and justice for Martin and his family.  Sharpton has been a charlatan since Wappingers Falls and he tarnishes any situation he touches.  Its not racist to think he pulls the discourse down.

The murder of Trayvon was tarnished way before the Rev got involved with polite "discourse" producing no investigation or the resulting justice. I have a feeling the Martins might disagree with your narrow assessment.

Offline zach

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2012, 11:18:16 PM »
ted, you misunderstand, more than a feeling is required. i quoted willy's earlier comment as it succinctly addresses how you get from a having a feeling to using force

As I understand it, you only have to "feel" threatened.  What does that mean?

there is a continuum of force "ladder" that must be followed to get to deadly force, meaning that you can only use  just enough force to overcome or repel an attack and no more. If Martin slapped Zimmerman, then Zimmerman could not use deadly force, but he could slap him back or punch him, (jsut enought to repel the attack )etc.. etc..., and if the fight escalates to punching and kicking, choking, and the victim could not get away AND was in fear for his life then deadly force could be used. This is taught , clearly in more detail, in Conceal Carry classes, and Im assuming Zimmerman had a permit to carry and took the class.

-W

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2012, 11:30:58 PM »
Very interesting article... I must now buy and read ďSearching for Whitopia: An Improbable Journey to the Heart of White AmericaĒ. Just the title alone is awesome.

I wonder if there's a documentary
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 11:35:21 PM by Miss Philicia »
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2012, 12:49:56 AM »
ted, you misunderstand, more than a feeling is required. i quoted willy's earlier comment as it succinctly addresses how you get from a having a feeling to using force

I'm not so sure about that.  If you "believe" you are in eminent risk of death, you can use deadly force.  That is very subjective.  People get into fights everyday, especially young people.  The vast majority of these lead to someone with a black eye, egos hurt, and they move on.   I'm not talking about severe beatings.  In this situation, you could "believe" your life was in danger and use deadly force.  I'm not buying this ladder thing.  The law says you have the right to stand your ground--not flee.  If a neighbor is pissed at you for running over his mailbox, walks up to your house holding the mailbox post and cursing you (but only planning to show you what you've done to his mailbox), I don't think you'd be charged in Florida if you shot him.  You would only have to say the man was carrying a deadly weapon and cursing at you, so you felt your life was in immediate danger.   

We saw what happened in Texas.  A man saw his neighbor's house being robbed, called 9/11 and told them he was going to shoot them, he leaves the safety of his home (after the 9/11 operator tells him not to) to go outside to shoot them dead.  And, no charges were filed.  The victims happened to be black, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law   

Modified:

911, rather. 
« Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 01:37:12 AM by tednlou2 »

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2012, 12:59:21 AM »
Time to offer a bit of information so that people can have a bit of clarity regarding this situation... regarding justifiable use of force

In order to establish an affirmative defense that use of defensive force was justifiable (in laymen's terms, for someone to claim self-defense) they must establish the following:

1.  They were not the aggressor
2.  They reasonably perceived an immediate threat of bodily harm
3.  They reasonably believed that defensive force was necessary to avoid (this perceived bodily) harm
4.  The amount of defensive force used was reasonable

A person cannot claim self-defense if they provoke an attack and then use force to fight off an attack.  The law does not allow any man to create a "bad or dangerous" situation and then fight his way out.  Period.

Also deadly force cannot be used against less serious attacks: for instance, if someone slapped you in your face, it would be unreasonable to pull out a gun and shoot them, as much as you'd might like that to be the case. 

In all honesty, if the cops were doing their job, they'd would've been able to charge this guy with 1st-degree murder because there is a such thing as instantaneous premeditation under criminal law statutes pertaining to murder.

"A person commits the crime of murder in the first degree if he knowingly causes the death of another person after deliberation upon the matter." ß 565.020.1. "Deliberation" required for conviction for murder in the first degree is defined as "cool reflection for any length of time no matter how brief." ß 565.002(3). "The deliberation necessary to support a conviction of first-degree murder need only be momentary; it is only necessary that the evidence show that the defendant considered taking another's life in a deliberate state of mind."
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 01:01:39 AM by Solo_LTSurvivor »
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2012, 01:28:55 AM »
Solo, what about this case?  Not only can you stand your ground, but you can chase someone for blocks and stab them to death.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/29/tagblogsfindlawcom2012-blotter-idUS416295476820120329

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2012, 02:33:35 AM »
Solo, what about this case?  Not only can you stand your ground, but you can chase someone for blocks and stab them to death.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/29/tagblogsfindlawcom2012-blotter-idUS416295476820120329

This is my favorite part of this story:
"Still, after the fatal stabbing, Garcia did not call 911. Instead, he hid the knife and sold two of Roteta's car radios, then initially denied the killing when interviewed by police. None of those facts played into the judge's decision."

A judge has to rule according to the letter, not the spirit, of the law.  If in fact the judge deemed a sackful of car radios being swung at the other person's head as deadly force then he was defending himself with the same level of force.  This means he was within his legal rights to react with lethal force in self defense and kill someone.  If I had to guess, this is how the Martin case will end because without video proof it is so difficult to prove exactly what happened except through the testimony of the one person who was actually there: George Zimmerman.

Offline wolfter

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Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2012, 10:18:35 AM »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9173820/Parents-of-murdered-British-students-criticise-Barack-Obama.html

Where's the outrage?  Not as newsworthy I guess.

Fuck you and fuck your outrage.

As if you've ever gotten off your ass for another person.

MtD >:(

Offline wolfter

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #47 on: March 30, 2012, 12:29:56 PM »
Fuck you and fuck your outrage.

As if you've ever gotten off your ass for another person.

MtD >:(

 :o :o :o :o
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Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #48 on: March 30, 2012, 07:07:43 PM »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9173820/Parents-of-murdered-British-students-criticise-Barack-Obama.html

Where's the outrage?  Not as newsworthy I guess.

I see the same type of comments below the articles about Trayvon and they usually include the fancy, derogatory word that begins with N. 

But hey, white power and all that.....  Do you feel better now?

:o :o :o :o
I don't need to announce the deeds I've done to assist others, but I've had a long history of doing so.  Including taking in several friends in their dying days of AIDS.  Some of whom didn't have any family support and were left totally alone.  Permission to now continue with your normal behavior!

Hardly being able to walk a straight line by 7pm I can see how this would have been difficult for you.
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Offline wolfter

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Re: Trayvon Martin...
« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2012, 12:00:25 AM »
modified because I have endured enough chaos.  If anyone mistoke (my word), what I intended;  apologies.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 12:38:06 AM by wolfter »
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