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Author Topic: HIV & Methamphetamine Use  (Read 6093 times)

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Offline TheRoof

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HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« on: March 19, 2012, 12:22:06 AM »
Once on occasion when I am just blowing off time. I go websites (gay sites) to look at guys. Many ask me the question do I "PnP".

I pass no judgement on people who experiment with different substances. (I have tried certain things in the past. Out of curiosity.) I was wondering is there a reason why for example methamphetamine TENDS to be the drug of choice? Rather than for example... benzos, or... opiates?
This thread is not about "what makes you high" or "what's better", but about the fact as I notice that Gay men tend to enjoy methamphetamine a lot more than other substances of pleasure. Why in your opinion is it this way?

 Is it because it is relatively cheap to get?
Does HIV affect the brain in anyway in regards brain chemistry & dopamine?

Dopamine is the chemical in your brain that gives you pleasure. 

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2012, 12:47:19 AM »
Most men get highly sexually aroused when high on meth, hence the appeal. Oddly I was one of the few who didn't want to have sex when I did that drug, so I never found it particularly interesting as a high.

As far as benzos and opiates -- those are downers. I don't think you want to have sex on those, you just want to do more of the drug and get higher. When I did heroin as a youngster I couldn't imagine having sex on it -- I was too busy vomiting every other hour.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Online mecch

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2012, 01:44:18 AM »
TheRoof,

You write a sweeping generalization that in my experience doesn't hold much water.  What city are you writing about, anyway?  Different drugs peak in popularity in different cities at different times. 

In my opinion, the drugs gay men most prefer for having sex are alcohol, cigarettes, poppers, marijuana, cocaines, X, viagra/cialis, and to a lesser extent GHB and even less, meth.

PNP does not only refer to Meth by the way.   
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mikeyb39

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2012, 09:40:08 AM »
yeah mecch,
here in Dallas there is a variety of drugs going on in the gay community, all of those  you mentioned.  Thankfully i've always been scared of the recreational drugs, except the Mary Jane and alcohol.  The prescription drugs like opiates etc i've certainly taken, it don't take long to become addicted.  I had major Jaw surgery and was on them for about a month.  My brain was not happy at all when i stopped.  Its still a struggle at times.  Once your body gets a taste of the feeling, it always wants it.  My Suggestion is not start if at all possible on any of these drugs. The recreational one can be easily avoided.

11/02/2010  cd4-251, vl-591000
12/09/2010  started Atripla
02/18/2011  cd4-425, vl-800
06/10/2011  cd4-447, vl-70
10/10/2011  cd4-666, vl-80
01/05/2012  swiched med (prezista,norvir ,isentress, )
02/10/2012  cd4-733, vl-UD  Viread removed
06/10/2012  cd4-614, vl-UD
12/14/2012  cd4-764, vl-UD
09/01/2013  cd4-785, vl-UD
03/06/2014. cd4- 1078, VL-UD
09/05/2014  cd4-850 , VL-UD

Online mecch

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2012, 02:47:26 PM »
Also, you might be on a cruising site that is "methy".  If the site is filled with profiles mentioning PNP, then sure Meth is going to be a favorite drug for people who write PNP on their profile or ask you about PNP.

I think some members here can refer you to websites that give information about the whole experience of the METH phase of gay party life, if you are wondering why it is a "preferred drug" - over others...   I remember one called tweaker.org its still up.

Meth is speed so produces a euphoric high - energy, confidence, and this converts to feeling sexy if thats the setting or if thats the goal for taking it.  Hyper sexy. 

I knew speed freaks who used speed for all sorts of other excessive living not sex.  Meth today isn't just used for sex, its used for anything that speed addicts or speed users "need" speed to do.  It's cheaper and lasts longer than coke, for the speed effect.

Some people have experienced and reported that it gives "confidence" in a sexual situation where otherwise someone might feel inhibited, insecure, or ashamed. So obviously thats another reason it might be the sex drug of choice - cheap, lasts a long time, increases libido and confidence and decreases inhibitions. 

But I guess you know its a nasty drug so thats why you are curious why people might take it or prefer it.

There is a great website called http://www.erowid.org/  - which discusses lots of the different ways one can think about each drug and each trip on a certain drug. Since you say you are not here to judge, then that's the site for you!

Also, finally, I don't know the answer to your interesting question about HIV and the brain and dopamine.  You seem to be asking - do HIV+ people have some special relationship to meth because meth acts on dopamine, so is there a dopamine situation in the brains of HIV+ people that meth use fixes.

I really don't think thats the way into the question.  Activists about "meth abuse" go in the other direction rather often:::  HIV- people fall in love with the meth high, get addicted and make mistakes that could lead to HIV infection. 

I think there is academic scientific research to the question of dopamine issues and depression, obsessive compulsion, risk taking, and every different kind of drug use, etc etc, and therefore issues like that and HIV transmission, or studying issues like that post HIV infection and modes of living, quality of life, treatment adherences, etc etc.   

But I haven't ever seen research that says an HIV infection per se produces a unpleasant dopamine regulation in the brain that was not present before infection.  Have you???

« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 02:50:00 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline 884422

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2012, 10:48:23 PM »
Thanks, mecch for the information.
There's no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war. Except its ending. >>Abraham Lincoln<<

Offline drewm

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2012, 10:53:00 PM »
Personally speaking, when I did meth I wanted to sit on a fire hydrant. It was one hell of a sex drug for me but it lasts too damn long the the crash is horrid!
Diagnosed in  May of 2010 with teh AIDS.

PCP Pneumonia . CD4 8 . VL 500,000

ATRIPLA - VALTREX -  FLUOXETINE - FENOFIBRATE


Numbers consistent since 12/2010 - VL has remained undetectable and CD4 is anywhere from 275-325

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2012, 11:20:34 PM »
Personally speaking, when I did meth I wanted to sit on a fire hydrant. It was one hell of a sex drug for me but it lasts too damn long the the crash is horrid!

Now Drew.  You know you can't tease us like this.  Links to visuals of your sex-capades.  I'm sure you've got some on XTube  :P


Thanks, mecch for the information.

It's not like this information wasn't readily available  ::)
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline deibster

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2012, 12:47:52 AM »
hiv gave me extreme fatigue. The fatigue is the reason that I went to get tested AGAIN & I was poz. So the fatigue came before the mental shock/knowledge of infection & before medications. The fatigue of infection, worry over infection, may be a reason that men use meth.

I have been on Concerta (prescription speed) for several years in order to be able to function. hugs, deibster  ;)
Poz since Dec 1992. Meds since 1995. Disability since 2005.

Prezista/Norvir, Epzicom, Cytomel, Prevacid, pravastatin, Fenofibrate, Remeron, Zoloft, Concerta, doxazosin, Allegra180, Nasocort, Centrum, Flax Oil, Fish Oil

Offline ATLpozbrother

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2012, 01:18:47 AM »
CLARIFICATION: When you go to many gay sites and PNP is listed,  men are looking for sex while high on CRYSTAL METH.  This is NO generalization, this is a known fact to most gay men and guys who may frequent gay sex chat sites.  PNP does not mean wanting to have sex while on marijuana or alcohol.  This is no generalization, a known fact.  When you see PNP posted on a profile, or someone tells you they are interested in PNP....they want to get high on METH and have sex.  For someone to say this is a generalization, this person is not well aware of the current young gay culture.  PNP is a code for crystal meth and very common in the world of gay men getting high on METH.  It's no judgement just a fact.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 01:21:06 AM by ATLpozbrother »
10/11 cd4 23, VL 125000-hospitalized PCP
1/12 started Gilead vaccine trial-The Quad Pill
1/12 cd4 40,   2% VL 445,000
2/12 cd4 153, 6% VL 43
3/12 cd4 248, 8%  VL 1023
4/12 cd4 215          VL 99
4/22 cd4 208, 8%  VL undetectable.
5/12 cd4 168, 9%  VL undetectable
9/12 cd4 176, 10% VL undetectable

Online mecch

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2012, 04:15:01 AM »

This thread is not about "what makes you high" or "what's better", but about the fact as I notice that Gay men tend to enjoy methamphetamine a lot more than other substances of pleasure. Why in your opinion is it this way?



ATL, this is a generalization by the OP.  Gay men do not prefer or enjoy meth more than other drugs. 

You are correct, however, (and I said the same thing).  When you are dealing  SPECIFICALLY with PNP people, then obviously Meth is popular. 


When you see PNP posted on a profile, or someone tells you they are interested in PNP....they want to get high on METH and have sex. 

duh.  of course.

And in my real experience PNP does not mean just meth. I cruise NY (and London and Paris, where that term is less used by the way) and people in their 40's who ask if you want to party are offering and doing and enjoying other drugs besides meth, my dear.  In Switzerland, its coke, x, and GHB.  And poppers and cigarettes and alcohol more than anything else.

I guess you have a lock on the youth scene.  But MOST of any group is NOT using meth.  Most of any subset of gay men does not prefer or enjoy that drug.  The drugs of choice are alcohol, poppers, etc.




“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2012, 04:42:14 AM »

ATL, this is a generalization by the OP.  Gay men do not prefer or enjoy meth more than other drugs. 

You are correct, however, (and I said the same thing).  When you are dealing  SPECIFICALLY with PNP people, then obviously Meth is popular. 


duh.  of course.

And in my real experience PNP does not mean just meth. I cruise NY (and London and Paris, where that term is less used by the way) and people in their 40's who ask if you want to party are offering and doing and enjoying other drugs besides meth, my dear.  In Switzerland, its coke, x, and GHB.  And poppers and cigarettes and alcohol more than anything else.

I guess you have a lock on the youth scene.  But MOST of any group is NOT using meth.  Most of any subset of gay men does not prefer or enjoy that drug.  The drugs of choice are alcohol, poppers, etc.






Sorry Mech, but PNP is almost exclusive to meth. Has been for years.

Poppers? Pot? Considered below the radar.

Because of the very thing that make meth addictive to gay guys.

A) It gives euphoria.

B) HUGE sex drive

C) Also HUGE (pardon the pun) problem maintaining an erection.

Thus creating a subset of voracious, insatiable power-bottoms with no outlet but to be fucked, and repeatedly, and to exhaustion, by multiple tops.

Of COURSE this leads to an increase in HIV. I mean really? No one thought this shit out?

So YES to the OP. Among the MSM community, meth is a pretty straightforward gateway to HIV infection.

People are really debating/discussing this?

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Online mecch

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2012, 06:52:59 AM »
Duh I get that PNP refers to meth.

Obviously I seem to have interpreted the sentences I just pasted above a different way then you.   I thought the OP was wondering if gay men in general prefer meth as a sex drug.  I thought he was on a PNP filled cruise site and was extrapolating to gay men in general.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2012, 08:33:46 AM »
CLARIFICATION: When you go to many gay sites and PNP is listed,  men are looking for sex while high on CRYSTAL METH.  This is NO generalization, this is a known fact to most gay men and guys who may frequent gay sex chat sites.

I didn't know PNP was exclusively meth. I assumed it was drugs including meth, ecstasy, cocaine, snorting Ritalin, Viagra, poppers, etc. I knew PNP did not included opiates, alcohol, benzos, barbiturates, marijuana or hallucinogens but I didn't know PNP=meth. We don't have a large gay community in Greensboro and maybe that is why I don't see a lot of meth use when I work in the emergency department.

Offline drewm

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2012, 10:24:58 AM »
I didn't know PNP was exclusively meth. I assumed it was drugs including meth, ecstasy, cocaine, snorting Ritalin, Viagra, poppers, etc. I knew PNP did not included opiates, alcohol, benzos, barbiturates, marijuana or hallucinogens but I didn't know PNP=meth. We don't have a large gay community in Greensboro and maybe that is why I don't see a lot of meth use when I work in the emergency department.

In my experience, personally, 99% of the time when a dude wants to PNP, he is talking about "Tina" - Meth.
Diagnosed in  May of 2010 with teh AIDS.

PCP Pneumonia . CD4 8 . VL 500,000

ATRIPLA - VALTREX -  FLUOXETINE - FENOFIBRATE


Numbers consistent since 12/2010 - VL has remained undetectable and CD4 is anywhere from 275-325

Offline denb45

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2012, 10:31:05 AM »
I despise tina & gina queens, not only do I not want to even know them, I don't want them in my house, my vehicle, or my presence, or anyone else who does that shit  :o
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2012, 10:32:06 AM »
CLARIFICATION: When you go to many gay sites and PNP is listed,  men are looking for sex while high on CRYSTAL METH.  This is NO generalization, this is a known fact to most gay men and guys who may frequent gay sex chat sites.  PNP does not mean wanting to have sex while on marijuana or alcohol.  This is no generalization, a known fact.  When you see PNP posted on a profile, or someone tells you they are interested in PNP....they want to get high on METH and have sex.  For someone to say this is a generalization, this person is not well aware of the current young gay culture.  PNP is a code for crystal meth and very common in the world of gay men getting high on METH.  It's no judgement just a fact.

Exactly. I'm not sure why meechella stated otherwise. PNP definitely means getting jacked up on meth, not getting together for vodka gimlets.

As usual on this board it would be nice that if people don't have direct experience with a subject they'd refrain from pontificating. But folks feel like they need to shit in every corner of the room I guess.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Online mecch

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2012, 10:51:53 AM »
Miss P I've tried it all my dear. And in my long years have long times with many an addict as well if you need cred for the dark side.

I explained what I misunderstood about the OP's first post.  I thought he was on a site such as Manhunt, where a number of guys want PNP. 

But then he asked
"This thread is not about "what makes you high" or "what's better", but about the fact as I notice that Gay men tend to enjoy methamphetamine a lot more than other substances of pleasure. Why in your opinion is it this way?"

So I assumed he meant gay men in general.  That's all.  No use in bickering with my comments.  Its just my opinion that gay men in general do not enjoy meth "a lot more than other substances".    And obviously gay men who DO like PNP like meth.  But, as others have mentioned, in some parts of the world, today, 2012, PNP does not automatically mean Meth.  Voila. I fucked around NYC in Dec and January and hookups with PNP in their profiles were NOT exclusively focused on meth.

Geez.  Just explaining my experience. 

If the OP wasn't extrapolating to gay men in general, then fine. 

Long as everyone knows that gay men in general are not Meth freaks and meth is hardly the drug of choice across the gay cruising scene, and even the harder, partying cruising scene.  Thats the only point I was making and stand by it.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline drewm

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2012, 10:54:31 AM »
And to clarify, I have been clean and sober for more than 4 years. Would not touch that shit again.
Diagnosed in  May of 2010 with teh AIDS.

PCP Pneumonia . CD4 8 . VL 500,000

ATRIPLA - VALTREX -  FLUOXETINE - FENOFIBRATE


Numbers consistent since 12/2010 - VL has remained undetectable and CD4 is anywhere from 275-325

Offline denb45

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2012, 11:17:06 AM »
Good 4 u drewm  ;)  drug addiction isn't really where it's at, especially w/ teh AIDS it's bad enough trying to adhere to the AVRs for some , and as most all of you know that tina/gina shit really dose a number on your immune system  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline TheRoof

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2012, 02:40:57 AM »
TheRoof,

You write a sweeping generalization that in my experience doesn't hold much water.  What city are you writing about, anyway?  Different drugs peak in popularity in different cities at different times. 

In my opinion, the drugs gay men most prefer for having sex are alcohol, cigarettes, poppers, marijuana, cocaines, X, viagra/cialis, and to a lesser extent GHB and even less, meth.

PNP does not only refer to Meth by the way.

Mecch, thank you for replying. I am not saying that ALL HIV Positive Men Do Methamphetamine. -- but you are right. I am sure that men prefer marijuana, alcohol, cigarettes, poppers to Methamphetamine.

I guess I am specifically talking about the United States. - It's usually very "subtle" the way people mention it.
Here is a youtube video, I watched a few months back. It's interesting to see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuApeL9IX-o
I am not saying other drugs are used, (which I am sure they are) all though I notice that Methamphetime tends to be the choice out of "hardcore" drugs. (aka from heroin, morphine, LSD and so on) 

Anyway, I apologize If I offended anyone.
There is this interesting fact my HIV doctor told me about.

He told me that opiates and marijuanna have shown studies not to depress the immune system significantly. (In regards to CD4 Cells)

All though Methamphetamine has been shown to lower the function of your immune system correlated to blood cells.  (For HIV patients) -- I thought that was interesting that he said that.

« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 02:42:47 AM by TheRoof »

Online mecch

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2012, 02:46:20 AM »
I think your basic question was why do people like it so much.  Only by extension why is it favored over other drugs or not, by a paticular group.

I think you got some good answers about why people into taking drugs with sex use meth as the drug. 

That http://www.erowid.org/ site I sent is the best one I know that allows people to post positive and negative experiences on drugs.

Remember that the drugs you put into "hardcore" are not what others would put there. Any drug can be "hardcore" - which I guess means potentially damaging to body, or mind, or personal integrity - job, social, family.   It all depends how one takes them and if one is or isn't addictive to the particular drug.

Cigarettes are obviously one of the most destructive to bodies but you dont lose your job or your mind if you're a chain smoker, usually.

I had a heroine addicted bf and I would use it every now and then and didn't think it was very interesting nor heavy as a drug (smoked or snorted here), and hardly "hardcore" for my personal experience.  But it was hardcore for him.  I had another bf who used all the "party" drugs or what we used to quaintly call designer drugs, which he loved and didn't consider "hard" (in fact image of the drug was important for him and his buddies) but I experienced it as rather hard since he'd be still high, or a zombie, Sunday evening then a basketcase on Monday and Tuesday and be looking forward by Wednesday to the drugs for Thursday to Saturday. Worked sufferred.  Lots of money was spent.  etc

Best case scenario - find the drug that gives you a benefit without too much cost to mind, body, or social sphere.   Not to mention the pocket book.  Nor criminal possession.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Rhaegar

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2012, 10:29:41 PM »
In my experience, seeing pnp in someone's online profile has almost always meant meth. 
05/19/2011: Diagnosed.  CD4 159   VL 284,000.
04/29/2013:  CD4 789,   VL <20

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2012, 08:10:25 AM »

Thus creating a subset of voracious, insatiable power-bottoms with no outlet but to be fucked, and repeatedly, and to exhaustion, by multiple tops.



Sounds like a night out at the old " Mine Shaft" in New York City, prior to it being closed.

http://www.colorsofleather.com/Lthr%20bars/Bars%202nd%20page/MN/Mineshaft%20NY.htm

Ray
 
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 08:54:01 AM by J.R.E. »
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline pozinHI

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Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2012, 09:09:59 PM »
I just wonder how many people would not be positive if not for meth. My experience was you would put yourself in situations on meth that you would never had done without meth. Meth makes you (well most anyways) want to fuck everything in site (or even not in site). As with most ex-drug users, you still get the urges, but the reality is, you cant use these things anymore.
I dont know what more to say except meth has ruined a lot of lives.....
« Last Edit: May 13, 2012, 10:05:01 PM by pozinHI »

Offline SANJUANDUDE

  • Member
  • Posts: 125
Re: HIV & Methamphetamine Use
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2012, 06:48:24 PM »
Quote
Personally speaking, when I did meth I wanted to sit on a fire hydrant. It was one hell of a sex drug for me but it lasts too damn long the the crash is horrid!

I had a similar reaction, but I was more into going to a gay bathhouse with my partner and he had more of a sexual urge than I did.  I was simply more than happy watching.  The high on the crap can last literally for days and then you always want more.  Coming down off the crap is a major crash.  Really, it's all not worth it and a waste of time.
10/2011-CD-4-598-Undetectable
01/2012-CD-4-758-Undetectable
04/2012-CD$-780-70 Viral Load
08-2012-CD4-846--20 viral load
02/2013-CD$ 865----20 Undetectable Viral Load
08/2013- CD4-898----<20 undetectable viral load

 


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