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Author Topic: vitamin advice  (Read 4093 times)

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Offline robinhunter

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  • Posts: 5
vitamin advice
« on: March 01, 2012, 01:23:39 AM »
Hello i have a question in regards to suppliments my girlfriend has hiv with a cd4 count of 700+... and a viral load of over 200,000 [per her results last month]. she was diagnosed about a year ago and simply refuses to take any sort of meds to help herself she is worried about the side effects of them. she is 33 not sure that matters i dont know much about v-l and cd4 counts ...im still learning......and i dont know at what point she should be taking a med to help her .... so till then does any one have any suggestions on what kinds of vitamins /suppliments or foods i can get her ...?? seeing as though i plan on  asking her to be my wife im sure you can understand her health and happiness are very important to me.... :) an info on this would be much appreciated ... Thank You

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: vitamin advice
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2012, 08:56:52 PM »
Hello i have a question in regards to suppliments my girlfriend has hiv with a cd4 count of 700+... and a viral load of over 200,000 [per her results last month]. she was diagnosed about a year ago and simply refuses to take any sort of meds to help herself she is worried about the side effects of them. she is 33 not sure that matters i dont know much about v-l and cd4 counts ...im still learning......and i dont know at what point she should be taking a med to help her .... so till then does any one have any suggestions on what kinds of vitamins /suppliments or foods i can get her ...?? seeing as though i plan on  asking her to be my wife im sure you can understand her health and happiness are very important to me.... :) an info on this would be much appreciated ... Thank You

Hi Robin,

Unless your girlfriend has a vitamin deficiency supplements aren't going to help her. They certainly won't do anything for her HIV infection.

When we talk about the various blood tests pozzies have to have we usually talk about "trends over time", ie one set of results doesn't really tell us much about how a person is doing since these counts can fluctuate an awful lot. We can only work that out after a series of tests taken over several months.

But rather than reinvent the wheel I'll just like you to our Lesson on HIV management which explains what the various tests mean.

Treatment decisions are not easy, especially for the newly diagnosed.

I will make this observation, a VL of 200,000 that persists over a period of time is not a Good Thing. It needs to come down. Moreover I can assure you from bitter personal experience that the potential side effects of medications are greatly outweighed by the dreadful consequences of untreated HIV infection.

Keep us informed. :)

MtD

Offline SANJUANDUDE

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Re: vitamin advice
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2012, 05:51:14 AM »
Quote


I will make this observation, a VL of 200,000 that persists over a period of time is not a Good Thing. It needs to come down. Moreover I can assure you from bitter personal experience that the potential side effects of medications are greatly outweighed by the dreadful consequences of untreated HIV infection.

Keep us informed. :)

MtD

A consistent viral load of 200,000+ is high and should come down.  To answer your question about vitamins, they certainly won't hurt.  Selenium will sometimes help raise the cd-4 count a bit,  but not a whole lot.  I take 15 vitamins/supplements every other day.
10/2011-CD-4-598-Undetectable
01/2012-CD-4-758-Undetectable
04/2012-CD$-780-70 Viral Load
08-2012-CD4-846--20 viral load
02/2013-CD$ 865----20 Undetectable Viral Load
08/2013- CD4-898----<20 undetectable viral load

Offline Lovewell79

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  • Posts: 4
Re: vitamin advice
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2012, 11:32:36 AM »
Agreed!  Having the disease in your body, causes havoc on all sorts of things in our bodies.  First of all, we are constantly fighting inflammation because our bodies are constantly fighting, even if we are at the stage of undetectable.  Our intestines are being attacked/damaged.  Our immune system (most of which is in our digestive tract) needs to be the strongest it can be.  Yes, there can be irreplacable damage done to our intestinal tract because of this disease!!  I still deal with getting the watery poop under control!  Activia does help. I've also gotten my CD4 above 500 by taking DoubleX.  Not trying to scare you but...give you the FACTS.  Get that viral load taken care of PLEASE!

Offline mecch

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Re: vitamin advice
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2012, 11:46:23 AM »
Robinhunter:

1) Lovewell is a vitamin distributor.  So take that as you will. (also he/she is on HAART).

2) Vitamins are a drop in the ocean if you are fighting HIV.  Save your money. Vitamins don't do jack shit to fight HIV:

(HAART = antivirals to fight HIV and live healthy...)

Your gf is in denial.  She needs to learn about today's HAART.  There aren't all that many side effects. Often times none.  She isn't going to survive without HAART.  She will die.  When its her time to take HAART (and that may be now) -- side effects are not the issue.  Its HAART, or death.

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Buddhamonkey

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Re: vitamin advice
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2012, 01:35:06 PM »
I beg to differ about vitamins not helping. I have been positive since 1985 and I just turned 47.  I have been taking supplements and incorporated super foods as part of my regimen for quite some time and they do help sustain my immune system.  I have fought my way through two bouts of TB, ITP, and cancer and although I took the traditional route to heal (chemo, meds, etc) I know that vitamins, herbs, diet, exercise and meditation allowed me to get through it with minimal side effects.  I have even designed a program for other HIV+ people and non HIV+ and they are doing well.  It really comes down to being consistent and treating the whole person; body/mind.  To just dismiss vitamins is in my opinion not good advice. If you are not on a wholesome diet, vitamins do help.
Everyday is a New Day for a New Beginning

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: vitamin advice
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2012, 01:59:38 PM »
No one is disputing the fact that vitamins are effective, Buddha -- as long as they are used in a SUPPLEMENTARY manner and not as the sole method of treatment.

You even stated that you took the traditional route to treat those specific things you were dealing with IN ADDITION to taking vitamins.


I have fought my way through two bouts of TB, ITP, and cancer and although I took the traditional route to heal (chemo, meds, etc) I know that vitamins, herbs, diet, exercise and meditation allowed me to get through it with minimal side effects.   

I highly doubt that if you had relied on vitamins alone to treat cancer, TB, ITP, or HIV that you'd still be around to type that post.

People just need to realize that vitamins are not the main method of treatment for any condition which requires traditional medicine for results.
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline drewm

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  • Mmmmmm Hmmmmmm!
Re: vitamin advice
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2012, 02:36:50 PM »
A lot of excellent advice here from folks who have been fighting this a long, long time. I take a vitamin but I would take it whether I was poz or not.

HAART is the key to controlling this virus. I agree with the statement above that concern over side effects from HAART are not a reason to not go on meds. Some people have no side effects at all. I implore your girlfriend to get that VL under control.
MAY 2010
VL>500,000 CD4>8

JUNE 2010 STARTED ATRIPLA

DEC 2010
VL>30 CD4>323

Atripla. Valtrex, Trilipix, Fluoxotine

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: vitamin advice
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2012, 04:21:10 PM »
I beg to differ about vitamins not helping. I have been positive since 1985 and I just turned 47.  I have been taking supplements and incorporated super foods as part of my regimen for quite some time and they do help sustain my immune system.  I have fought my way through two bouts of TB, ITP, and cancer and although I took the traditional route to heal (chemo, meds, etc) I know that vitamins, herbs, diet, exercise and meditation allowed me to get through it with minimal side effects.  I have even designed a program for other HIV+ people and non HIV+ and they are doing well.  It really comes down to being consistent and treating the whole person; body/mind.  To just dismiss vitamins is in my opinion not good advice. If you are not on a wholesome diet, vitamins do help.

I didn't dismiss vitamins. I said they don't fight HIV.  Prove otherwise by science?  A wonderful whole healthy diet and supplements no doubt contribute to your radiant health but without the required medicine certain diseases kill everyone dead as a doornail.

The OP's girlfriend needs to come to terms with the fact that she'll need HAART.  Vitamins and diet are supplementary. Anyone having trouble coming to terms with HIV and HAART and starting to talk about diet and vitamins, until, or instead, or whatever, its throws up red flags and you know it!  Furthermore, supplementation can get very expensive and also quite time consuming to learn enough to not be completely pissing away thousands of dollars.  And certainly not when the brass tacks are coming to grips with HAART.   Puleeeze.   Don't set up straw man.  Its rather self centered and holier than thou.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Buddhamonkey

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Re: vitamin advice
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2012, 04:36:57 PM »
I was just responding to a comment "Save your money. Vitamins don't do jack shit to fight HIV"  I was just saying that "I" believe they do help.  Yes, I believe that working along with conventional therapy, vitamins, super foods, diet, exercise, meditation, etc can work together.  For the record, I did not solely rely on traditional therapy all the time. 

Give you two examples: 1) I had ITP, I was in the hospital, took the meds becuae they were life saving.  Left hospital they wanted to remove my spleen.  I said no thank you, I will take better care of myself.  Doc said, "You are stupid and you will relapse and you will be back."  That was over 20 years ago, still have my spleen.  2nd example:  I was diag with cancer, stage 4 spread.  Did the surgery, 4 rounds of chemo, was suppose to do 6 and one month of radiation, did no radiation, I did complimentary therapy too, Cancer free over 15 still alive they gave me two years. 

The last cancer I had, I opted not to do chemo and I have been cancer free and all I am doing is what I mentioned.  I am healthy, stronger then ever and although I do take my HIV meds, I know that what I do helps reduce the side effects of the meds.  This just works for me, everyone will have their own therapy, but after 30 years I think I know what works for me and I know my body better than anyone else, and as my doctor tells me; You seem to do well, because you listen to your body and you act quickly."

Bottom line like you said, it should be inclusive because there are things out there that you can take to get better and build a stronger immune system.  I agree with you on that Solo.  Trust me if I thought vitamins alone could do the job, none of us would have to worry :) 

Thanks for the exchange, this is my first day here :)  So I hope with my experiences I can help others....  Hugs
Everyday is a New Day for a New Beginning

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: vitamin advice
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2012, 05:29:06 PM »
I wholehearted agree with everything you said, and feel you were spot on... especially here:


The last cancer I had, I opted not to do chemo and I have been cancer free and all I am doing is what I mentioned.  I am healthy, stronger then ever and although I do take my HIV meds, I know that what I do helps reduce the side effects of the meds.  This just works for me, everyone will have their own therapy, but after 30 years I think I know what works for me and I know my body better than anyone else, and as my doctor tells me; You seem to do well, because you listen to your body and you act quickly."

Thanks for the exchange, this is my first day here :)  So I hope with my experiences I can help others....  Hugs

PS: I saw your post over on the LTS forum.

Wanted to say welcome, glad you found us, and I'm quite certain that any contributions you make here will be quite helpful.
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: vitamin advice
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2012, 08:39:01 PM »
Nobody is critiquing your miracle formula for cancer free living through radiant nutrition.
But you'd be dead without your HAART.
The first thing the OP's girlfriend needs to do is come to terms with the fact that she is going to have to save her life with HAART.  She might not need it now, but with her viral load she is obviously NOT a longterm controller of HIV.  And she is afraid of side effects. 
All diet and exercise and transcendent meditation is fine but without the HAART you die.  Im sure there is room to say lifestyle and diet can help with side effect and healthy living. 
You are talking circles around the basic fact that your lifestyle and vitamins do NOT fight HIV.  Vitamins do not do jack shit to fight HIV.  We clear on this?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 08:42:02 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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  • Posts: 1,176
  • Twerk Baby Twerk
Re: vitamin advice
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2012, 01:26:14 PM »
Nobody is critiquing your miracle formula for cancer free living through radiant nutrition.
But you'd be dead without your HAART.
The first thing the OP's girlfriend needs to do is come to terms with the fact that she is going to have to save her life with HAART.  She might not need it now, but with her viral load she is obviously NOT a longterm controller of HIV.  And she is afraid of side effects. 
All diet and exercise and transcendent meditation is fine but without the HAART you die.  Im sure there is room to say lifestyle and diet can help with side effect and healthy living. 
You are talking circles around the basic fact that your lifestyle and vitamins do NOT fight HIV.  Vitamins do not do jack shit to fight HIV.  We clear on this?

Wow, Meech - that was a bit harsh, doncha think?

It's clear to see that Buddha is fully aware that vitamins are not the first line method of treatment and he was not advocating that someone (read: the OP) just take vitamins to treat her HIV.  Both Budda AND Drew have indicated that vitamins are to be taken in tandem with ARV treatment for hiv.

You were the one who opened the door by saying vitamins don't do jack shit and Buddha had every right to offer (personal) testimony as to how he benefitted from the alternative therapies he chose to utilize (including vitamins).  If you read any of his other posts, you would know that he is not some n00b recently diagnosed; he has been living with teh AIDS for quite some time, in addition to those other conditions he had to deal with.

Again, he was not telling the OP that she should run out and buy a lifetime supply of vitamins to treat her hiv so the only one who needs to be clear on anything apparently is you.
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline TabooPrincess

  • Member
  • Posts: 279
Re: vitamin advice
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2012, 03:26:14 PM »
Vitamins or not....blahhh whatever.

You sound like you are incredibly supportive and loving and with that alone she stands a good chance of coming to terms with having to take haart.  Keep supporting her the best way you can.  I've only recently started meds and it's horrible but it's got to be done.  I've not had any support and can definitely say that with support from a loving partner like yourself I'd be far more optimistic.

Fright the good fight! And keep loving and living X
09/ 2008 - Seroconversion
11/2008 - Tested pos, cd4 640 vl 25400
12/2008 - cd4 794 vl 27798, 35%
03/2009 - cd4 844 vl 68846, 35%
06/2009 - cd4 476 vl 49151, 33% (pregnancy confirmed)
08/2009 - cd4 464 vl 54662, 32%
Started meds for pregnancy (Kaletra, AZT, Viread)
09/2009 - cd4 841 vl 3213, 42%
10/2009 - cd4 860 vl 1088, 41%
11/2009 - cd4 771 vl 563, 38%
12/2009 - cd4 885 vl 151 42%
Discontinued meds after baby born
02/2010 - cd4 841 vl 63781, 38%
05/2010 - cd4 1080 vl 113000, 39%
08/2010 - cd4 770 vl 109242
12/2010 - cd4 642 vl 111000, 34%
06/2011 - cd4 450 vl 222000, 33%
11/2011 - cd4 419 vl 212000, 24%
03/2012 - cd4 280 vl 118000, 26% (repeated Cd4 at 360)
05/2012 -cd4 360 vl 99,190
10/2012 Atripla, cd4 690, vl 80
12/2012 Darunavir, norvir, truvada, Cd4 680, vl u/d
07/2013 cd4 750,ud

Offline anonomous

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  • Posts: 28
Re: vitamin advice
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2012, 08:07:39 AM »
hi

Im new here so still figuring thing out, i read what most of you say in regards to vitamins, i was diagnosed 3 weeks ago as hiv positive with just 1 Elisa test and the doctor put me on 500 mg of absorbic acid and a multi vitamin syrup and nothing else, my cd4 count on diagnosis was 533 but must go back end of september for my 2nd round of tests, im so confussed so many different views what does one really believe?



Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: vitamin advice
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2012, 08:16:55 AM »
Anonomous, I saw your post about the vitamins in the other thread, too.

Next time you see your doctor, you can ask him/her the purpose for the vitamins.  In the meantime, please do not misinterpret the Vitamin C as anything to do with fighting your HIV infection.  This is probably just to treat a suspected nutritional deficiency.  Could even be placebo or to get you used to taking drugs.  You will have to ask your doctor. 

Anyway, lots of HIV+ people take some basic vitamins, just like you have been given. It is not antiviral treatment. It is not HIV treatment.  Is this somehow confusing you? Do you think the vitamins are HIV treatment?

I see from your other post that you are in South Africa and you do not have access to doctors.  This is going to be an important challenge for you going forward.  It is essential that you see state certified medical doctors. MDs.  You don't necessarily need a specialist. 

As you may know, South Africa went through a long and horrible passage of time in which the government and health ministers were in denial about how to treat HIV.  Fortunately, this dark period is over. 

If you do not personally already know, you need to learn now that HIV is a very treatable illness.  When the time comes, when the immune system runs low, the HIV+ person takes anti-retrovirals.   That is the only treatment for HIV.  There is no other treatment. 

Healthy eating and supplements are important but eventually when the time comes one needs access to HIV medicine.  So you need to start learning on this site about HIV and HIV treatment.  And planning on how you are going to access medicine where you live, going forward, when the time comes.   You should be sure to ask all these questions when you go back for your next blood tests as well.  Your immune system is not in a crisis at the moment so you have time to learn.

Go to lessons pages here on this forum.
http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/Introduction_4702.shtml

When you can't get answers or have any questions that the clinic cant answer, make sure you ask them here.  There are so many people with so much long experience I am sure people can help you learn everything you will need.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 08:26:35 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

 


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