Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
E-newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr MySpace
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
August 23, 2014, 03:37:59 AM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 635777
  • Total Topics: 48235
  • Online Today: 199
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online
Users: 3
Guests: 147
Total: 150

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: Man in France Guilty of Transmitting HIV Before Testing Positive  (Read 1887 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tednlou2

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,819
Man in France Guilty of Transmitting HIV Before Testing Positive
« on: February 25, 2012, 12:01:10 AM »
Now, this is very disturbing.  I don't even understand how prosecutors can make a case in a situation like this.  This isn't just "backward Americans" doing these prosecutions.  I hope this doesn't create precedent and we start seeing people prosecuted here, when they didn't even know their status.  I'm having a hard time even understanding how he was prosecuted.  For "should have known he was probably carrying the virus"??  Knowing he was probably poz, but just too scared to test?  It is very troubling.  The article says there is no public info proving their infections came from this man.  And, even if they did prove they shared the same virus, it is still wrong, in my opinion.  This is taking criminalization to a totally different level.  So, in this case, we all could have been prosecuted for sex we had prior to learning our statuses. 

http://www.poz.com/articles/france_hiv_transmitting_virus_1_21974.shtml

Offline spacebarsux

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,350
  • Survival of the Fittest
Re: Man in France Guilty of Transmitting HIV Before Testing Positive
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2012, 02:20:49 AM »
Utterly ridiculous.

I read the article and I feel that it didn't portray the full picture. It seems like there's more to the story.
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,458
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Man in France Guilty of Transmitting HIV Before Testing Positive
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2012, 07:53:38 AM »
Did you read the AIDSMAP article?

There is more info in it.  It does seem like a horrible trial and a very stupid verdict and two rather jerky "victims", not to mention the bad behavior of the "criminal".

(Oh, and the French newspapers, like other countries, casually interchange AIDS and HIV - its pretty pathetic.)

In the French report the prosecuter explained her successful argument as such:
 À l'audience, le procureur Catherine Doustaly avait requis trois ans de prison pour « un comportement suicidaire pour lui et criminel pour les autres, réitéré sur plusieurs années ».

What I understand is that the case was made that he lived several years with his head in the sand "knowing but not knowing" that he was likely HIV+ and swearing to partners that he wasn't.  What people are asking is - what about the two victims responsibility to protect themselves - and especially with causual partners for that matter.  The (now) criminal was lying to get the sex he wanted and the "victims" were doing the sex they wanted against all advice to the contrary about safersexrules. They even had the CHUTZPAH to claim that they were especially disappointed in the "criminal" because the were in health fields and would have known to get PEP after the sex if it had been risky.   HUH?????  So if they were in health care didn't they know the SSRs?!!!  And they claim to have lost their jobs because of the seroconverion.....  In particular, one was a nurse and claims to have lost his job.  Maybe he should have sued his workplace... Not enough information in reports to understand everything that went on here.

What the case shows once again is that the existence of these laws allow for a travesty of justice.

http://www.aidsmap.com/resources/law/Blog/page/1736432/?url=http://criminalhivtransmission.blogspot.com/2012/02/france-untested-gay-man-found.html

"In this current case, several things appear to have gone against Christophe.  First, after one of the men accused him of infecting them, he apparently emailed him a falsified HIV-negative test (although this is not the same as showing a falsified test in order to obtain unprotected sex under false pretences.)

Second, both men testified as to the negative impact of having HIV on their health and career.

    Today, Julian is on triple therapy.  He had to give up being a nurse in pediatrics and settle for an administrative job in a Swiss hospital. Pierre-Yves, too, had to give up his career as a caregiver, he now works as a car salesman.

What seems incredible about this case is that two gay men would consider themselves victims under such circumstances.  Until recently most prosecutions in France were of heterosexual men.  It seems the concept of shared responsibility for HIV prevention for gay men has now well and truly disappeared.

Finally, the shorter article on this case, in Le Point, also states that another man has also recently been found criminally liable for HIV transmisison (although I imagine this man was diagnosed HIV-positive before having sex with the complainants). It states that on February 14, a 38 year-old bus driver was sentenced to six years in prison for infecting two partners (gender not specified), one of whom subsequently committed suicide."
« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 08:10:14 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline newt

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,878
  • the one and original newt
Re: Man in France Guilty of Transmitting HIV Before Testing Positive
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2012, 03:15:34 AM »
Ostriches with their heads in the sand and bums in the air all round then...

It seems rum that a key part of the argument was that the accused should have known he was HIV-positive because of his past risky behaviour but the accusers had no obligation to consider they might become HIV-positive because of their current risky behaviour.

As for the French police finding all the sexual partners the men had had before and after Christophe, damn efficient them French uniformed chaps. << a complete list given, found, tested, the truth, the whole truth and nothing but, I am sure

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,136
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: Man in France Guilty of Transmitting HIV Before Testing Positive
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2012, 12:27:22 PM »
This is a pretty sad state of affairs.  Although I was under the impression he did NOT infect the "victims".  Which is ultimately worse.

Offline jkinatl2

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: Man in France Guilty of Transmitting HIV Before Testing Positive
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2012, 10:54:08 PM »
This is a great illustration why, no matter how many "justified" prosecutions exist, that the totality of the HIV community suffers because of these laws.

I will never, never ever ever, support them. And I am afraid that my empathy for those who do is becoming more and more limited.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline AdonisSMU

  • Member
  • Posts: 71
Re: Man in France Guilty of Transmitting HIV Before Testing Positive
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2012, 12:34:51 PM »
This is a pretty sad state of affairs.  Although I was under the impression he did NOT infect the "victims".  Which is ultimately worse.
How do they know that they caught it from this guy and how do they know they didn't give it to the guy themselves? Alot is missing from this story.

Offline next2u

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,761
Re: Man in France Guilty of Transmitting HIV Before Testing Positive
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2012, 08:15:03 AM »
When I read this I was a bit disappointed as well. Makes me remember we have a long way to go and decriminalizing transmission is still an important task.
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline LM

  • Member
  • Posts: 409
Re: Man in France Guilty of Transmitting HIV Before Testing Positive
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2012, 11:33:31 PM »
Yes, this made me so sad. This kind of thing really has to stop.

Offline Valmont

  • Member
  • Posts: 332
Re: Man in France Guilty of Transmitting HIV Before Testing Positive
« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2012, 07:41:57 PM »
Independently of this fact, this kind of thing only happens with HIV and don´t help to decrease stigmas around it...
Apr 2011: Diagnotized
Jun 2011: CD4: 504  VL: 176.000
Dic 2011: CD4: 714  VL: 95.000
May 2012: CD4: 395 VL: 67.000
Jun 2012: CD4: 367
Agu 2012: Starting Emtricitabine 200 mg / Tenofovir 300 mg and Efavirenz 600 mg (2 pills) different brands or VIRADAY/ATRIPLA/Mylan....
Sep 2012: VL: 138
Dic 2012: CD4: 708 VL: <34  %CD4: 32%
Jan 2013: CD4: 707 VL: <20
May 2013: CD4: 945 VL: <34 %CD4: 33%
Agu 2013: CD4: 636 VL: <34 %CD4: 50%
Dic 2013: Latent TB, started Isoniazid

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.