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Author Topic: French Kissing and Oral Sex  (Read 18513 times)

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Offline pan_chow1

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  • Posts: 13
French Kissing and Oral Sex
« on: October 09, 2006, 10:25:59 PM »
Hi,

I am been reading this forum for quite sometime. I went through all the archives in your forum and it is amazing to learn your patience and the service that you are providing.
You all are doing a great job to help the humanity. I congratulate all of you for your dedication to help the humanity. May god give you very long life, so that you will be able to serve the humanity to the fullest extent.

I would like to ask few questions that has been troubling me for last 7 weeks.  On August 18, I had unprotected oral sex (insentive) with a hiv positive women. However, I did not cum and it lasted for about 3 minutes at the most. In addition there was wet kissing (French kissing). I read in your forum that French kissing and insertive oral sex is a low risk activity and there has not been a single documented case in the history of aids epidemics. But there are websites that claims that hiv is transmissible through French kissing and oral sex and warrants for testing. Some of the websites says that low risk does not mean no risk and goes to the extent of quantifying the transmission rate of 0.5 in 20,000. I am really worried and have not been able to work, sleep or eat. Sometimes, I feel that I am having ARS symptom- oral ulcer, I also feel that something is stuck in my throat and I got heat boil on my thigh two week after the exposure. Since you all have been working in the area of hiv and I firmly believe that your about hiv aids are much better than large number of doctors. I would like to ask these few questions:

1)   Do you think I am infected though oral sex and French kissing?
2)   Is the likelihood of infection high if there were sores and cuts in the mouth of persons performing   the oral sex and French kissing?
3)   Is the likelihood of infection high through oral sex and French kissing high if there the women was I her window period?
4)     What does your experience and research in the field of hiv says about the transmission hiv through oral sex and French kissing? Have you personally seen any case of hiv transmission through oral sex and French kissing? Or Has any hiv research center documented the case of hiv transmission by oral sex and French kissing?
5)   I am very scared to go for hiv testing. I do not have guts to go for hiv testing coz I might be the one of the 1 in 20,000 cases or I might be the first documented cases.

I desperately need your help. Wishing you all a very long life

Offline RapidRod

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Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2006, 02:28:29 AM »
You do not get HIV from receiving a blowjob or french kissing. So to answer the rest of your questions, they do not need a reply.

Offline pan_chow1

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Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2006, 05:17:28 AM »
Hi RapidRod,

Thanks for your quick response. It really helped me to clam down. I am still bit nervous and worried because in some of the websites I read that hiv can be transmitted through kissing and getting blowjob, if the saliva was contiminated with blood.

I am worried what if some of the saliva was contiminated with blood came in contact with the head of my penis. Other worry is what if during French kissing I shallowed saliva was contiminated with blood. So many thoughts are comming into my mind and I am totally fightened to get ELISA test. Please help me :( 
 

Offline Ann

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Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2006, 05:50:54 AM »
Quote
1)   Do you think I am infected though oral sex and French kissing?
2)   Is the likelihood of infection high if there were sores and cuts in the mouth of persons performing   the oral sex and French kissing?
3)   Is the likelihood of infection high through oral sex and French kissing high if there the women was I her window period?
4)     What does your experience and research in the field of hiv says about the transmission hiv through oral sex and French kissing? Have you personally seen any case of hiv transmission through oral sex and French kissing? Or Has any hiv research center documented the case of hiv transmission by oral sex and French kissing?
5)   I am very scared to go for hiv testing. I do not have guts to go for hiv testing coz I might be the one of the 1 in 20,000 cases or I might be the first documented cases.

Pan,

1, NO

2, NO

3, NO

4, There has never been a proven, documented case where either kissing or getting a blowjob was the definite method of transmission. There have been "patient report" cases, but patient report is very unreliable as many people will not admit to having unprotected anal or vaginal sex.

There have been studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for intercourse but no barrier for oral sex (or kissing), not one, NOT ONE of the negative partners ended up positive. These studies ran for years and involved hundreds of couples. If there were a risk in kissing or getting blowjobs, some of those negative people would have become positive.

5, The study that came up with the "1 in 20,000" number has been discredited. They pulled their numbers out of thin air.

You haven't had a risk of hiv infection in what you've brought to us. As long as you have not been having unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse, you don't really need to test.

Ann

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline pan_chow1

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  • Posts: 13
Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2006, 06:40:31 AM »
Hi Ann and RapidRod,

You all are great people. Thanks you very much for your encouraging response based on your research and knowledge. I think I read the Spanish study regarding hiv transmission involving positive and negative couples and not a single ones were infected through receiving and performing the oral sex. However, I read another study in San Francisco, which concludes few cases of hiv transmission through oral sex. Like you said I think it is little vague study. I am really glad to hear that the likelihood of 1 in 20,000 transmission through oral sex has been invalid. But still CDC and other few sites warns oral sex with hiv positive and partner with unknown hiv status is risky behaviours.

My greatest worry of hiv transmission through oral sex and french kissing comes from following facts:
1) What if there was blood in the saliva of hiv positive partner?
2) What if if there was bleeding gun and open sore in the mouth of hiv positive partner?
3) What if the saliva contaminated with blood from hiv positive partner entered the urethra of the penis?

Ann and RapidRod, what are the likelihood of contacting the STD from oral sex for 3 min and French kissing for 5 min with a hiv positive person?

I am worried and need your support

Offline Ann

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Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2006, 06:50:50 AM »
Pan,

There are over a dozen different proteins and enzymes present in saliva that render hiv incapable of infecting a new host. There would have to be so much blood present in the other person's mouth that you wouldn't be asking "what if", you'd know. Also, hiv needs to bump into specific cells in order to infect - it can't just infect any old cell. These specific cells are not found in any great quantity in the mouth.

The California study you mention was set up differently from the other studies and it was based on patient report. Again, we have the case of people not wanting to admit to unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse.

Other websites - the CDC included - often have a religious/moral agenda. They don't want you to have sexual relations outside of a traditional heterosexual marriage and they mis-use information and statistics to further their agenda. We have no such agenda on this website. We just want people to know the real risks and protect themselves accordingly.

If you wonder why the CDC would have a religious/moral agenda, look no further than the White House, where the CDC gets its funding from.

You did not have a risk. If you did, we'd tell you.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline pan_chow1

  • Member
  • Posts: 13
Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2006, 07:05:46 AM »
Hi Ann,

Ann thank you from the buttom my of heart. Before coming to your sites, I landed up in many other sites which frightened me and had to pass sleepless night. It used to get nightmares and totally disillusioned. After hearing your response, I am more settled that the chances of contacting hiv through unprotected oral sex and french kissing with hiv positive partner is remote.

Should, I got for ELISA test at the end of three months. I am worried, in case if the result turns out against our expectation, which I am sure is not. But... One always has many "if"  and "but".

Ann, thank you very much and may you live long to help and comfort many people in this world.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2006, 09:41:52 AM »
You have already thoroughly and most accurately been given the real deal about your no-risk incident.

There's no reason to get tested specifically in relation to this recent incident. If however you find that your mind is continuing to work overtime to no good purpose, then sure, go ahead, get tested and collect the inevitable negative result.

Just because you mind continues to come up with what ifs -- well those are thoughts and feelings and they have no sound basis in HIV science.

This is not an HIV situation. Period.

Cheers, 
Andy Velez

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2006, 09:45:15 AM »
Pan,

Considering I believe ANYONE who is sexually active should have regular, routine testing, then yes, you should test, but only if you are sexually active. By sexually active, I mean having intercourse. As long as you use condoms when you have intercourse, there is no reason to expect anything other than a negative result.

You can test over this incident if you like, but I do not expect anything other than a negative result, provided you have never had unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse. You can "if" and "but" all you like, but that will not change the scientific fact that hiv is not transmitted through kissing or getting a blowjob.

Ann
 
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline pan_chow1

  • Member
  • Posts: 13
Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2006, 09:38:37 PM »
Dear Ann, Andy_Velez and RapidRod

Many thanks to you all for your patience and gentleness. Having discussed you all in this forum and having gone through other sites I believe that the risk of HIV and STD transmission from oral sex and french kissing ranges from very low to non-existence. In fact the risk is almost ZERO.

Other than the unprotected oral sex and french kissing with hiv positive person, I have never been exposed to any serious risk.  Beside unprotected oral sex and french kissing with hiv positive person, the only risk that I have been exposed is dental extraction (few years ago), vaccination and given blood couple of time for testing typhoid, malaria and CBC.

By the way, I picked up a post from another forum of yours (JUST TESTED POSITIVE) where Jane007 says that kissing was the only means of transmission in her case. What do think about Jane007 case- Is it the kissing or other route of transmission? I am posting the Jane007 post below in purple.

With best regards to you all

Jane007
Improbable but Possible
« on: August 09, 2006, 04:55:32 AM » 

Hi Everybody.
 
I am new to this forum. Basically my story is kind of strange and I was wondering if there is anyone out there who may have a similar experience.
Basically, I was with the same man for 10 years. I lost my virginity to him and I loved him more then anything. We were engaged to be married. Two years ago we broke up. I met a few guys over the years but it never got further then kissing. Sometimes some hectic kissing but no sex! A few months ago I tested positive.
My ex-fiance has been tested several times and is always negative. Basically - I either got it via kissing or...
Last new years I was at this party, and I felt this sharp stab in my arm, there was no blood, but strangely, my first thought at the time had been, I hope someone has not injected me with something. He he - I know- sounds like some story that used to make the rounds in the 80's.
So its been a few months and well I accept it. Obviously fate meant it to happen. Don't get me wrong, I wake up at night with fear sometimes. Still, it would be nice to know what someone out there thinks of this. I told my doctor but I think no one really believes me.
 

 

Offline RapidRod

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  • Posts: 15,286
Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2006, 09:43:55 PM »
It doesn't matter how someone believes they were infected.  (You don't get HIV from Kissing)  It's you that you need to worry about and learn as much as you possibly can on the risks and transmissions of HIV.

Offline pan_chow1

  • Member
  • Posts: 13
Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2006, 11:30:40 PM »
Hi Ann, Andy and RapidRod

You have been great source of support to many people. Let me thank you for your prompt and genuinely researched answers.

What I understood from your comments and advice is that the risk of hiv transmissionfrench kissing and unprotected oral sex is almost ZERO.

As Andy and RapidRod suggested that given this low risk exposure, I don't think I need to go for ELISA test. Ann and Andy feels although it is not necessary to go for ELISA test I may want to go to get relaxed but the result is obviously negative.

Ann, Andy and RapidRod frankly speaking, I do not have to courage to go to the clinic although you have already told me that result. It is driving me crazy. I read few guys in your forum saying that they contacted hiv for from not being exposed to any risk and were 100% sure to test negative before they got their result.

Offline pan_chow1

  • Member
  • Posts: 13
Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2006, 01:13:20 AM »
Hi Ana, Andy and RapidRod

thanks for your great responses - it is a real privilege to have access to such a hiv think-tank for advice.

It is about unprotected oral sex and french kissing. I understand your responses are always stating that there is virtually no risk. I am obviously still majorly concerned - and would like to know a couple of things if possible.

1/ Do you recommend that testing is not necessary simply because the risks from one single exposure of unprotected "sex" are too low to worry about - or specifically because the risks from unprotected oral sex itself are very low ?

2/I understand that if you are infected then your viral load in the first few weeks is very high and you could be highly contagious. Are you confident enough in your prediction that unprotected oral sex (insertive) is zero risk to recommend that having sex with hiv negative partner is safe during this time? (unprotected insertive oral sex (3min) and french kissing (5 min) with hiv positive person is my only risk factor)

3/ Time and again you say that symptoms aren't a good indicator of infection - but are there any specific ones that you feel are important to watch out for - and in what time frame ?

4/For general information - what is it that makes unprotected oral sex and french kissing lower risk do you think? - and are there any factors that would make it higher risk (viral load, blood etc.)

Thank you very much - your knowledge is much appreciated by those of us that are totally new to this area (and I am very scared by it)

Offline pan_chow1

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Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2006, 04:41:21 AM »
Is dry mouth and throat after ARS symptom?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2006, 04:55:41 AM »
The answer is NO. You DON'T get HIV from receiving a blowjob and kissing. You DON'T get ARS unless you have had a risk and you have not had a risk.

Offline pan_chow1

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Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2006, 07:12:49 AM »
Hi Ann,

Could you please give me some fo your opinion on few questions that I posted recently

Pleeeee :o :( :'(

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2006, 09:24:38 AM »
Quote
/ Do you recommend that testing is not necessary simply because the risks from one single exposure of unprotected "sex" are too low to worry about - or specifically because the risks from unprotected oral sex itself are very low ?

2/I understand that if you are infected then your viral load in the first few weeks is very high and you could be highly contagious. Are you confident enough in your prediction that unprotected oral sex (insertive) is zero risk to recommend that having sex with hiv negative partner is safe during this time? (unprotected insertive oral sex (3min) and french kissing (5 min) with hiv positive person is my only risk factor)

3/ Time and again you say that symptoms aren't a good indicator of infection - but are there any specific ones that you feel are important to watch out for - and in what time frame ?

4/For general information - what is it that makes unprotected oral sex and french kissing lower risk do you think? - and are there any factors that would make it higher risk (viral load, blood etc.)

Pan,

1. We recommend that anyone who has had unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse (the act of a penis without a condom entering an anus or vagina) gets tested. We also recommend that people STOP having unprotected intercourse.

We do NOT recommend that someone who has had their penis sucked get tested. Getting a blowjob is not "low" risk, it is NO risk. Not one person has ever become infected from getting a blowjob and you will not be the first.

2. Getting a blowjob is NOT a risk no matter what the viral load of the giver is. Kissing is NOT a risk no matter what the viral load is. Neither of these activities are risks. Period, end of story. No "ifs" or "buts" about it.

3. Symptoms or even the lack of symptoms are meaningless. I'm not going to discuss symptoms with your or anyone else. They are irrelevant. Stop looking at your body through the lens of hiv.

4. Oral activities carry no risk for many reasons. Saliva contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and make it unable to infect. Many people living with hiv don't have any particles of hiv present in their saliva to begin with. Hiv needs to come into contact with specific types of cells in order to infect and these are not found in any great quantity in the oral cavity. There are not really any factors that change any of this. Oral transmission is extremely rare - there have been a few RARE people who MAY have become infected from GIVING a blowjob. But GETTING a blowjob is NO RISK.

One more time -

Getting your dick sucked will NOT result in hiv infection. Getting a blowjob is NO RISK.

Kissing is also NO RISK. Saliva is NOT INFECTIOUS.

Ann

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline pan_chow1

  • Member
  • Posts: 13
Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2006, 10:27:08 PM »
Hi Ann, RapidRod and Andy,

Thank you very much for your valuable and well researched answers. My good wishes are always with you for your service to the mankind.

I am convinced that my exposure "French Kissing and Oral Sex" is NO RISK. Once again, thank you very much.

 :)

Offline pan_chow1

  • Member
  • Posts: 13
Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2006, 05:06:00 AM »

Hi Ann, RapidRod and Andy,

As said that I received unprotected blowjob and also had French kissing exactly 9 weeks ago. You have been very supportive and encouraging throughout. However, I went to see a doctor and discussed with him about it. He said:

•   As such the hiv virus is very fragile. The likelihood of catching flu virus from being near the infected person is 99% while likelihood of getting hiv from one sexual encounter is less than 1% (ranges between 1 in 500 to 5000).
•   He also said that oral sex is low risk but it does not mean ZERO RISK. He advised that I should get tested as usually after 6 weeks the antibody is detectable. From this forum I learned that 12/13 weeks is the conclusive test for hiv.
•   Finally, I decided to go for hiv test but I told the doctor that I do not have guts to pick up the result. He promised to send it to me by email but I do not even have the guts to check the email. He will probably be emailing the result by tomorrow but I am not going to open it as I am scared to death.

I want to have opinion from Ann, RapidRod and Andy
 :(

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
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Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2006, 05:15:05 AM »
pan,

"Oral sex" means a lot of different things to different people. When your doctor says oral sex is not without risk, he is probably talking about GIVING blowjobs. This is the only type of oral sex that carries a even a slight risk.

He may not know about the serodiscordant studies either. Not all doctors keep up on the latest hiv research. You already know the deal on those studies. Getting a blowjob is NOT A RISK.

There is no reason why you shouldn't look at your test result. It will be negative, without doubt. You did not have a risk. Not one person has ever become infected through getting a blowjob and you will NOT be the first.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline pan_chow1

  • Member
  • Posts: 13
Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2006, 06:36:37 AM »
Hi Ann, RapidRod and Andy,

You all are great and I have very high regards and respect for you all. I also feel that the doctor does not have much information about hiv. I explained him that I was the insertive and I was give a blow job. But he said that if the women performing oral sex had bleeding gum or tooth pooled out that day then hiv can be transmitted. Doctor said usually, the gums has problem and it creates risk. That made me very worried. He said that hiv is all about blood, if theree was blood then there is risk. That made me more scarred.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2006, 10:18:39 AM »
Neither your doctor's uninformed opinion nor the WHAT IF details about the woman performing on you had blood in her mouth or a tooth pulled change the HIV science based realities of your situation.

Theoretically your doctor could be right. Anytime you have sex other than with your own hand there is theoretical risk. But in the real world and uncounted billions of blowjobs later, there has never in 25 years been a documented case of transmission to a man receiving a blowjob.

No matter what your doctor and your mind keep telling you, you're not going to make history by becoming the first to do so.

So if your mind continues scare you with WHAT IFs, there's nothing we can do about that.

You weren't at risk for HIV and that's the real deal.

Cheers,
Andy Velez

Offline pan_chow1

  • Member
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Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2006, 11:04:50 PM »
Hi Ann, RapidRod and Andy

Many many thanks for your patience and kind advice. If I have not found your sites, I would have had heart attack for such low risk activity that I was exposed to.

As said my doctor emailed the result of my hiv test: HIV 1&2 Antibody test: NEGATIVE

The test was done after:
- 9 weeks 6 days (69 days) after unprotected insertive oral sex with hiv positive female.
- 2 weeks 6 days (20 days) after deep French kissing with hiv positive female.

Insertive unprotected oral sex and deep french kissing with hiv positive female were the only risk that I had been exposed.

Given this situation about the exposure and the negative result, I would like to seek your advice on the following issues:-

1)  Should I take the 13 weeks conclusive test for unprotected insertive oral sex and  french kissing?
2)  Is it possible that 13 weeks test would be different?
3)  Does negative 69 days test after being exposed to unprotected insertive oral sex with hiv positive person
     mean  anything or it is totally useless?
4)  Does negative 20 days test after being exposed to deep French kissing with hiv positive person mean 
     anything or it is totally useless?
5) Which do you think carry more risk for hiv transmission: unprotected insertive oral sex or deep french kissing?
6) What is the possibilities that the result was false negative?

Please kindly help me on the above issues

Once again thank you very much and my best wishes to you all.
 :)

Offline Ann

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Re: French Kissing and Oral Sex
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2006, 07:27:50 AM »
Pan,

1. NO. Why? Because you were not at risk of hiv infection through unprotected insertive oral sex and  french kissing.

2. NO. Why? Because you were not at risk of hiv infection through unprotected insertive oral sex and  french kissing.

3. It means you are hiv negative. Why? Because you were not at risk of hiv infection through unprotected insertive oral sex with hiv positive person.

4. It means you are hiv negative. Why? Because you were not at risk of hiv infection through deep French kissing with hiv positive person.

5. NEITHER is risky. Why? Because unprotected insertive oral sex and/or deep french kissing ARE NOT RISKS OF HIV INFECTION.

6. Zero. Why? Because unprotected insertive oral sex and/or deep french kissing ARE NOT RISKS OF HIV INFECTION.

You do NOT have hiv. You have NOT had a risk.

However, you ARE headed for a time out. If you cannot accept your negative hiv status, then it's time for you to think about getting some counseling to help you get to the bottom of your sexual and hiv related anxieties. We can't help you with that here.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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