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Author Topic: Birm  (Read 2526 times)

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Offline Valmont

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  • Posts: 332
Birm
« on: February 13, 2012, 05:34:51 PM »
I have a question in relation with a product (I don´t know if I can call this a medecine...) that is called BIRM and sold in Ecuador for many kind of problems, including VIH.

Usually, I don´t give a lot of credit to this kind of natural medecine, but after talking with docs and looking for more information, it seems it can be usefull.  It has a legal registery for being sold in pharmacies.  It is from plants from Amazonia. 

Does anyone know about it, and have used it?  I would like your opinion about it...

http://www.ecuabirm.com/sp/birm.html
Apr 2011: Diagnotized
Jun 2011: CD4: 504  VL: 176.000
Dic 2011: CD4: 714  VL: 95.000
May 2012: CD4: 395 VL: 67.000
Jun 2012: CD4: 367
Agu 2012: Starting Emtricitabine 200 mg / Tenofovir 300 mg and Efavirenz 600 mg (2 pills) different brands or VIRADAY/ATRIPLA/Mylan....
Sep 2012: VL: 138
Dic 2012: CD4: 708 VL: <34  %CD4: 32%
Jan 2013: CD4: 707 VL: <20
May 2013: CD4: 945 VL: <34 %CD4: 33%
Agu 2013: CD4: 636 VL: <34 %CD4: 50%
Dic 2013: Latent TB, started Isoniazid

Offline mecch

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  • Posts: 11,935
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Birm
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2012, 07:03:01 PM »
What does it claim to do?

There are natural immunity enhancers in Europe and the US, like echinacea, which are maybe useful when you don't have HIV, but are discouraged actually, if you do have HIV. They dont fight the virus and they are counterproductive to people who are not yet on haart.

I think if there are natural products that are effective antivirals against HIV, we would all hear about it internationally, don't you?
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline buginme2

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Re: Birm
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2012, 08:19:22 PM »
For those who don't speak spanish:

http://www.ecuabirm.com/en/birm.html

Save your money.

Offline eric48

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  • Posts: 1,192
  • @HIVPharmaCure & tinyurl.com/HIVPharmaCure
Re: Birm
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2012, 09:45:58 PM »
There quite many molecules that have some level of anti-retroviral efficiency in a tube test.

I would not be betting my money on it, but, on the other hand, self experimentation is part of the pleasure of life.

Except for the money, what is ther to loose. You many also want to spend so extra $ for closer CD4 and VL monitering while doing your own little experiment

I've tried something 'unusual' myself: apparently without the expected outcome, except that I started to 'feel' better, so my money was not wasted, in that respect.

ERic
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   safety stock : 3 months (2013: FOTO= 5d. ON 2d. OFF)

Offline mecch

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  • Posts: 11,935
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Birm
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2012, 08:51:34 AM »
Feeling better because of a placebo effect has value.

But call a spade a spade.

If the money is spent to fight HIV and that doesn't happen, then it is money wasted and a rip off to boot.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Valmont

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  • Posts: 332
Re: Birm
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2012, 11:09:21 AM »
Thank you for your comments, sorry for the link in spanish...

Well, I posted this only because 3 differents docs talked me about this product (including my HIV doc) and recommanded me to use it; and I did not know what to think about it...  I think they promote it only because it is local production and has authorization from health ministry...

I don t believe a lot about alternative medecine, I think it can help for sure, but not cure...  I don´t think this can sustituate HAART treatments for sure...

Anyway, I´ll try it to till next lab set and see CD4 evolution...  Eric, your message is interesting...

It is awful, like drinking mud with raices and leaves...  Well, at least, it will help me to switch to antiretroviral treatment easily; I think this year I will have to go on it...
Apr 2011: Diagnotized
Jun 2011: CD4: 504  VL: 176.000
Dic 2011: CD4: 714  VL: 95.000
May 2012: CD4: 395 VL: 67.000
Jun 2012: CD4: 367
Agu 2012: Starting Emtricitabine 200 mg / Tenofovir 300 mg and Efavirenz 600 mg (2 pills) different brands or VIRADAY/ATRIPLA/Mylan....
Sep 2012: VL: 138
Dic 2012: CD4: 708 VL: <34  %CD4: 32%
Jan 2013: CD4: 707 VL: <20
May 2013: CD4: 945 VL: <34 %CD4: 33%
Agu 2013: CD4: 636 VL: <34 %CD4: 50%
Dic 2013: Latent TB, started Isoniazid

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,935
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Birm
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2012, 05:23:30 PM »
There is no cure for HIV, certainly not alternative medicine. But also not the highest tech and newest Western Pharma products.

Interesting that your MDs and your country suggest this product. Surely only for maintenance or boosting to perhaps delay HAART treatment?  Any research saying it does so?
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Valmont

  • Member
  • Posts: 332
Re: Birm
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2012, 07:21:06 PM »
For sure, I´m clear about HIV and cure.......

Quote
Interesting that your MDs and your country suggest this product. Surely only for maintenance or boosting to perhaps delay HAART treatment?  Any research saying it does so?


Mecch, my thread was in this intention, to know if there is some more information outside.  I know the doc who made this formulation paid a lot for patenting it in US.  Ecuadorian docs told me it was the object of studies here and in US too (but this means anything...)

They told me people feel better with this (well, can be a placebo effect), but also that improve CD4 / CD 8 relation, and CD 4 number...  I still have many many doubts about it... 

By the way, it is hard to find independant information to share...
Apr 2011: Diagnotized
Jun 2011: CD4: 504  VL: 176.000
Dic 2011: CD4: 714  VL: 95.000
May 2012: CD4: 395 VL: 67.000
Jun 2012: CD4: 367
Agu 2012: Starting Emtricitabine 200 mg / Tenofovir 300 mg and Efavirenz 600 mg (2 pills) different brands or VIRADAY/ATRIPLA/Mylan....
Sep 2012: VL: 138
Dic 2012: CD4: 708 VL: <34  %CD4: 32%
Jan 2013: CD4: 707 VL: <20
May 2013: CD4: 945 VL: <34 %CD4: 33%
Agu 2013: CD4: 636 VL: <34 %CD4: 50%
Dic 2013: Latent TB, started Isoniazid

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,935
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Birm
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2012, 06:32:05 AM »
Lack of info of course is a sign, of something.
I suppose you could ask your Ecuadorian to explain straight out if what they believe it does and if they have seen research.
I can't imagine Ecuadorian docs being all quacks so if you ask more than one.
If the cost is noticeable in your budget, you might ask the docs why you should spend this.  If eventually the only recourse is HAART. 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Valmont

  • Member
  • Posts: 332
Re: Birm
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2012, 03:11:23 PM »
I´ve been looking for some more scientific information but did not find nothing absolutely serious or independant in internet (and I can look for in 4 languages...).

It costes USD 20 for 2 months.
Apr 2011: Diagnotized
Jun 2011: CD4: 504  VL: 176.000
Dic 2011: CD4: 714  VL: 95.000
May 2012: CD4: 395 VL: 67.000
Jun 2012: CD4: 367
Agu 2012: Starting Emtricitabine 200 mg / Tenofovir 300 mg and Efavirenz 600 mg (2 pills) different brands or VIRADAY/ATRIPLA/Mylan....
Sep 2012: VL: 138
Dic 2012: CD4: 708 VL: <34  %CD4: 32%
Jan 2013: CD4: 707 VL: <20
May 2013: CD4: 945 VL: <34 %CD4: 33%
Agu 2013: CD4: 636 VL: <34 %CD4: 50%
Dic 2013: Latent TB, started Isoniazid

Offline eric48

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,192
  • @HIVPharmaCure & tinyurl.com/HIVPharmaCure
Re: Birm
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2012, 04:46:44 PM »
fermented papaya is sold under brand Immun'Age and successfully marketed since the corporation sponsored famed Dr. Luc Montagnier (Nobel prize for discovering a virus, can't remember which ;-) for a lab bench study that showed some potential in improving immune system.

Even Yogurts or Milks are marketed under the 'may help improve...'

Surely some physical activities (sports,...) will do the same and cost nothing...

$10/month is little compared to what US citzens spend on multivitamins, etc

There is nothing against trying some 'exotic' ingredients.

After all tobacco was first sold by Pharmacist Nicot and contains a truly active molecule

Coke was sold in Pharmacies as well

Tea also was famed for being protective to Chinese seamen (mostly, I suppose, because they were boiling their water, not so much for the tea itself...)

You may look through the internet and find hundreds of Chinese university studies showing some antiviral activity for a local mushroom or traditional herb they produce locally.

First very potent anti cancer molecule was a taxus extract  (Taxus canadensis are the sources of paclitaxel or Taxol, a chemotherapeutic drug used in breast and lung cancer treatment- see wikipedia)

While there may be some truth in you local doctors claims, there may also be some vested interest as well. Even if there is some effect the true question is there enough effect ?

Given your (good) current state of health , there is nothing against a bit of self experimentation

Even Steve Jobs tried 'alternative' treatments when he was diagnosed with cancer.
(and waisted 9 precious months..)You know the story...

But the day the issue becomes serious matter, no matter what, you'll have to turn to proven , efficient, medication , and be serious about it

Just some thoughts

Eric
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   safety stock : 3 months (2013: FOTO= 5d. ON 2d. OFF)

 


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