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Author Topic: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(  (Read 17193 times)

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Offline Loa32

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Thought Id post to see what the risks are in terms of my own transmission potential. I had no cuts or anything on my penis. I started out wearing a condom but for a good  2 or 3 minutes I was inside him bare. He is undetectable and very dilligent about taking his pills. He said he has only ever missed his meds twice in 6 years. Im very new to this and have alot of anxiety on this subject in general. My bf said taking PEP would be a measure mostly to calm my nerves but that based on the risk level, it was not neccesary, so I didnt take it. Bit stressed. Any insight, info, or support related to topping an undetecatable guy would be muchly appreciated. Thanks.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 05:43:34 PM by Loa32 »

Offline RapidRod

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Thought Id post to see what the risks are in terms of my own transmission potential. I had no cuts or anything on my penis. I started out wearing a condom but for a good  2 or 3 minutes I was inside him bare. He is undetectable and very dilligent about taking his pills. He said he has only ever missed his meds twice in 6 years. Im very new to this and have alot of anxiety on this subject in general. My bf said taking PEP would be a measure mostly to calm my nerves but that based on the risk level, it was not neccesary, so i didnt take it. Bit stressed.
You can obtain you conclusive test result 3 months post exposure.

Offline Loa32

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thats all u got for me

Offline RapidRod

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thats all u got for me
What would you like, you passed up going to see a doctor for nPEP?

Offline Andy Velez

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The risk level in your situation is a low one. In addition to his being on meds which means he likely has a low viral level, it was a single incident. And the risk for the insertive partner is significantly lower than for the receptive partner.

I don't see PEP as being warranted in this situation. If you decide to do it, it must be started within 48-72 hours after the risky incident and the earlier the better. Your doctor or any emergency room can get you started if you decide to go that route.

 
Andy Velez

Offline Loa32

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Oh jesus I signed onto this forum hoping to get a bit of info, insight, support not icy cold jibber jabber. U re read my post and tell me whether or not it was worth it to even reply to it. U could have given me some info that was relevant to my question and not something that was completely obvious, or else you should have just kept your comments to urself. im aware of getting tested and will do so. Please do not respond to messages because you are bored unless you have somthing proactive to say and not completely condescending.

Offline Loa32

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Thanks Andy Velez.. i appreciate you taking the time to write.

Offline RapidRod

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Oh jesus I signed onto this forum hoping to get a bit of info, insight, support not icy cold jibber jabber. U re read my post and tell me whether or not it was worth it to even reply to it. U could have given me some info that was relevant to my question and not something that was completely obvious, or else you should have just kept your comments to urself. im aware of getting tested and will do so. Please do not respond to messages because you are bored unless you have somthing proactive to say and not completely condescending.
There was nothing condescending said at all. You had an exposure and the only way to know your status is by testing. You should have known that being in a relationship with an HIV+ partner.

Offline Loa32

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Take a look at the initial post Rapid Rod. I suggest you read it carefully as it seems you have completely missed the point with your half assed, smart assed comment.  I asked for insight and support into a specific scenario and your response to it was condescending in that i will (obvioulsy) be going in for a confirmative test. Do not reply to posts ( and waste my time) if you have nothing constructive to say.

Offline RapidRod

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Take a look at the initial post Rapid Rod. I suggest you read it carefully as it seems you have completely missed the point with your half assed, smart assed comment.  I asked for insight and support into a specific scenario and your response to it was condescending in that i will (obvioulsy) be going in for a confirmative test. Do not reply to posts ( and waste my time) if you have nothing constructive to say.
Good god what did you come to the forum for? You knew you had a risk and you would need to test to know your status?

Offline Loa32

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2012, 06:52:08 PM »
OK.We are obviously speaking a different language. I came on this forum in the hopes to gain insight, info, and support into risk levels of undetectable poz guys where there was a condom break. This was a pretty specific set of questions relative to a scenario I was in and you replied that i should just go get tested and completely missed the question. I would recomend not answering posts if you have nothing constructive, supportive or informative to say..and if you think your answer to my question was satisfactory than I suggest you sharpen your reading skills and take a sensitivity class. cheers mate.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2012, 06:57:32 PM »
OK.We are obviously speaking a different language. I came on this forum in the hopes to gain insight, info, and support into risk levels of undetectable poz guys where there was a condom break. This was a pretty specific set of questions relative to a scenario I was in and you replied that i should just go get tested and completely missed the question. I would recomend not answering posts if you have nothing constructive, supportive or informative to say..and if you think your answer to my question was satisfactory than I suggest you sharpen your reading skills and take a sensitivity class. cheers mate.
If hand holding is what you came to this forum for instead of the facts I suggest you find somewhere else to get your hand held. Look at Pyro's thread he was told the same thing.

Offline Loa32

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2012, 07:12:38 PM »
You gave me ZERO facts related to the questions I asked. If you dont know the answer. Dont respond. ya prick

Offline RapidRod

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2012, 07:22:11 PM »
You gave me ZERO facts related to the questions I asked. If you dont know the answer. Dont respond. ya prick
Have a good day.

Offline Ann

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2012, 06:57:28 AM »
Loa,

If you don't like the response you get from someone on an internet forum, the best course of action is to ignore that person and concentrate on the responses you get that you find more valuable. Otherwise you are just wasting everyone's time by getting into a back-and-forth.

And by the way, we do not permit name-calling on these forums. Please do not call Rodney a prick again, or else you may be given a time out. Thank you for your cooperation.

I agree with Andy that your risk is very low. You have three factors in your favour.

The first is being the insertive partner (top). The insertive partner is always at lower risk, regardless of the other person's viral load.

The second is the short time you were inside unprotected. This was a very brief incident.

The third and perhaps most important is the fact that your partner has an undetectable viral load. While studies have not yet been done on gay couples, studies have been done on straight couples, primarily to find out if serodiscordant couples can conceive the "natural" way. They can, and they do. It's probably the most common way serodiscordant straights are having families these days - it used to involve expensive sperm washing or IVF.

It was found that provided the poz partner's VL was undetectable for at least six months, and there were no other STIs present, the negative partner remained negative. This was true of both neg men and neg women. (In other words, both the top and bottom.)

It is now believed that the situation is the same for gay serodiscordant couples. Your partner was correct when he said that taking PEP would be more for your peace of mind than anything. You really don't need it.

However, you still need to test to accurately know your status. The earliest you should test is at six weeks. The vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test positive by six weeks, with the average time to seroconversion being only 22 days. A six week negative must be confirmed at the three month point, but is highly unlikely to change. If I were you, I'd treat the test as a necessary formality and expect a negative result.

There are two main causes of condom breakage.

One is not using enough water-based lube, particularly for anal intercourse. Make sure you lube up, using plenty and periodically putting more on if you're having a lengthy session.

The other reason is having an air bubble in the condom. When you put the condom on, pinch the tip between the finger and thumb of one hand, while rolling it down with the other.

Once it's on, give it a firm stroke from tip to base while watching the tip. If there's air in there, you'll see it and if that is the case, roll it back up and try again. Apply plenty of lube once you're sure there's no air in your condom.

Good luck with the testing. As time goes on you'll become more confident that what you're doing protects you from infection. With your partner's undetectable VL, it won't be difficult. Hang in there.

Ann



PS - When was the last time you tested? Are you positive you're negative? If it's been some time since your last test and you've been sexually active, you may want to test now for a baseline. If it's been a long time since you last tested, or if you've never tested, you may be poz already and not know it. It happens.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 07:12:13 AM by Ann »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Loa32

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2012, 10:30:34 AM »
Ann!..thank you for taking the time out to respond to me so thoroughly..that was the type of insight, info and support I was hoping for. your words definitely eased some of my worries.

Lol Im sorry for calling that guy a prick..I just wasnt hearing the response I was hoping for and was in a bit of a vulnerable place to hear such an empty response..

The last time I was tested was the first of feb. The time before that was the end of dec. and the time before that was beginning of dec. All negative results.

Im just starting this new relationship with my guy and this is unchartered territory for me. He is in NYC and Im in toronto so the long distance stress is compounded by the anxiety I get when we have condom breaks ect. Im not sure how to proceed..Do I get an emergency, on hand prescription of pep for these types of scenarios?..( god help me if the condom breaks while im the receptive partner)
IM CDN and dont have us health insurance so I would imagine a us prescription for pep would be an arm and a leg$..I am going to talk to my dr on monday about ways to obtain pep in canada in the event that this type of thing happens.

I dont wanna be a stress case.. but to be honest, I dont really relax during sex as much as Id like..and Im beginning to think there are too many things working against me and my guy. I like him alot, and dont usually feel this way about new ppl but Im having a hard time navigating this situation.

Happy to have signed onto this forum with ppl like you to offer support. thanks again for writing back previously, i apreciate it.

Hope to hear from you soon.
Take care:)

Offline RapidRod

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2012, 11:23:54 AM »
Ann!..thank you for taking the time out to respond to me so thoroughly..that was the type of insight, info and support I was hoping for. your words definitely eased some of my worries.

Lol Im sorry for calling that guy a prick..I just wasnt hearing the response I was hoping for and was in a bit of a vulnerable place to hear such an empty response..

The last time I was tested was the first of feb. The time before that was the end of dec. and the time before that was beginning of dec. All negative results.

Im just starting this new relationship with my guy and this is unchartered territory for me. He is in NYC and Im in toronto so the long distance stress is compounded by the anxiety I get when we have condom breaks ect. Im not sure how to proceed..Do I get an emergency, on hand prescription of pep for these types of scenarios?..( god help me if the condom breaks while im the receptive partner)
IM CDN and dont have us health insurance so I would imagine a us prescription for pep would be an arm and a leg$..I am going to talk to my dr on monday about ways to obtain pep in canada in the event that this type of thing happens.

I dont wanna be a stress case.. but to be honest, I dont really relax during sex as much as Id like..and Im beginning to think there are too many things working against me and my guy. I like him alot, and dont usually feel this way about new ppl but Im having a hard time navigating this situation.

Happy to have signed onto this forum with ppl like you to offer support. thanks again for writing back previously, i apreciate it.

Hope to hear from you soon.
Take care:)
I didn't take offence, I just considered the source.

Offline Loa32

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2012, 11:57:45 AM »
ok

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2012, 01:34:40 PM »
One idea, if you don't mind me wandering into controversial territory, is to consider PreP - taking a Truvada once a day. This is a combination of two medications commonly used to treat HIV. It's neither endorsed nor approved by any government entity, but it seems to render those who take it virtually impervious to HIV infection (if taken regularly -religiously even).

Where to find it? Damned if I know. Good luck finding a doctor who will prescribe it to a HIV negative person. But it's a thought.

Other than that, using condoms correctly and consistently for anal sex will prevent HIV infection. A good motivating factor for your guy's medication adherence should be that maintaining an undetectable viral load is as close to his being non-infectious as possible for a HIV positive person.

Heterosexual couples have unprotected sex all the time to have children (and, quite likely, period) when the positive partner is undetectable. It seems to work, as none of the negative partners in this forum (that I'm aware of) has seroconverted while trying to conceive.

Again, this is a diversion from the party line. But it's something to consider when choosing how much emotional energy to spend regarding the occasional condom break and whatnot.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Loa32

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2012, 01:46:47 PM »
One idea, if you don't mind me wandering into controversial territory, is to consider PreP - taking a Truvada once a day. This is a combination of two medications commonly used to treat HIV. It's neither endorsed nor approved by any government entity, but it seems to render those who take it virtually impervious to HIV infection (if taken regularly -religiously even).

Where to find it? Damned if I know. Good luck finding a doctor who will prescribe it to a HIV negative person. But it's a thought.

Other than that, using condoms correctly and consistently for anal sex will prevent HIV infection. A good motivating factor for your guy's medication adherence should be that maintaining an undetectable viral load is as close to his being non-infectious as possible for a HIV positive person.

Heterosexual couples have unprotected sex all the time to have children (and, quite likely, period) when the positive partner is undetectable. It seems to work, as none of the negative partners in this forum (that I'm aware of) has seroconverted while trying to conceive.

Again, this is a diversion from the party line. But it's something to consider when choosing how much emotional energy to spend regarding the occasional condom break and whatnot.

thanks for the response..Ive actually heard of someone who does that..but he is HIV negative and prefers to bottom without condoms..which in my opinion is fairly irrespsonsible..altho he still maintains negative status..but apparently that "prep" is very expensive and I wouldnt want to test drive somthing that wasnt fail safe..

thanks for your response buddy!

Offline Loa32

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hiv poz bf putting me at risk.
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2012, 11:06:18 AM »
Ive posted this question in another category but its seems to be the wrong category. This is hard for me to be so candid about my relationship but I dont have many people to open up to, so plz dont judge.

My partner is HIV positive. Before we met he would only have unprotected sex with his sex partners. Is this insane behavior?..is he being wrecklesss and putting himself at risk for other stds?? ( hep c, ect) He says this is a common practice among hiv positive men as barebacking is prefferred. he says he hasnt used condoms " in a year"...

We have just started this relationship. We are using condoms and I feel like its hard for him to get used to it. We are long distance, and negotiated some "rules" for when either of us are not together. The rules about sex outside of the relationship were that condoms were absolutely essential. he told me he would bag it up and that i could trust that he would always do this. " I always do what I say Im gonna do" is what he told me.

A couple of days ago, he told me he got drunk and met someone at a bar and had unprotected sex with them. At first he lied about it but then he told me the truth. Is it unfair to expect him to adhere to this? Iam angry ( and jealous) that he broke the rules and deteriorated my trust. I dont want to get any stds.  I care for him alot but not sure how to proceed. I ended the relationship but wondering if I should give it a second chance.

Could someone weigh in. Im feelin a bit naive. How common is it for HIV positive men to be having unprotected sex with one another? is it taking a giant risk? Is he completely irresponsible? Do I give him another chance after he drilled it into me that I could trust him? He feels bad and says it wont happen again, altho I find it hard to believe that he wont. Is it too much for me to ask him to do this if bare sex is preferred?..At this point in the relationship, Im 100% about using condoms and dont see that changing anytime soon..Im feeling like I cant measure up and satisfy him the way prefers. How do we negotiate these terms? do i just say it s ok to have condomless sex with someone like a " buddy" who we both know is std free? ( that seems silly but Im all out of ideas )....A part of me thinks that this basic respect is a deal breaker and the other part just misses him and wants him back. Confused.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 11:18:24 AM by Loa32 »

Offline Ann

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2012, 11:51:05 AM »
Loa,


I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep everything in one thread. It doesn't matter how long it has been since you last posted in your thread or if the subject matter is different.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines.

I've already asked you to read the Welcome thread before now - so do us all a favour and READ it! Thank you for your cooperation.





Yes, it's very common for poz people to bareback with other poz people. It's called "serosorting". My poz bf and I never use condoms. We would if we went outside our relationship though - neither of us would want to give the other an additional STI.

You're going to have to decide where your own comfort level lies. If you're consistently using condoms with the new bf then you're not very likely to get anything from him, although condoms do not always protect against things like herpes, hpv (a group of viruses that may cause warts and/or cancer) and syphilis. Other infections like chlamydia and gonorrhea can sometimes be transmitted through fresh cum or vaginal fluid outside the body, UNLIKE hiv, but this doesn't happen very often.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Loa32

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2012, 11:59:14 AM »
Loa,


I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep everything in one thread. It doesn't matter how long it has been since you last posted in your thread or if the subject matter is different.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines.

I've already asked you to read the Welcome thread before now - so do us all a favour and READ it! Thank you for your cooperation.





Yes, it's very common for poz people to bareback with other poz people. It's called "serosorting". My poz bf and I never use condoms. We would if we went outside our relationship though - neither of us would want to give the other an additional STI.

You're going to have to decide where your own comfort level lies. If you're consistently using condoms with the new bf then you're not very likely to get anything from him, although condoms do not always protect against things like herpes, hpv (a group of viruses that may cause warts and/or cancer) and syphilis. Other infections like chlamydia and gonorrhea can sometimes be transmitted through fresh cum or vaginal fluid outside the body, UNLIKE hiv, but this doesn't happen very often.

Ann

OK..Ill read it...sorry Im breaking all the rules in here!!..I relaize Im probably a pain in the ass, but to be honest I have zero outlets to vent or figure this out. the ppl in my life have no reference to anyone who is poz or that community or these dynamics ect

I think things between us would be alot easier if I could just satisfy him by being able to bareback him ( being the top) Is there solution to this problem?...Is the PREP somthing I can do to be able to have unprotected sex with him so he doesnt feel the need to do it outside of the relationship?...I dont want to put myself at risk, nor do i want to be in an open relationship with this guy...this all seems so backwards.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2012, 12:01:14 PM »
Basic respect is indeed a deal breaker.

Of course pozzies bareback a lot. And, of course, they get other STDs at the same rate as the rest of the population who has unprotected sex.

If you wear a condom with your positive partner, you will be protected from HIV. You may, however, get

Syphilis
Gonorrhea
chlamydia
hepatitis
HPV/Genital warts
herpes

These pathogens can be spread despite the consistent and correct use of condoms for penetrative anal sex.

You have to decide what your level of acceptable risk is, and to what lengths you will do to protect yourself.

If you choose to stay with your partner then you need to continue to get tested for STDs at least twice a year - and monitor yourself, of course, for any symptoms (chancres, discharge, painful urination, bumps and the like). Because more likely than not, your partner will continue to forego condoms on occasion. And while using a condom for anal sex will prevent HIV, you will continue to be at risk for other, more easily acquired STDs.

Maybe you guys have a great emotional/intellectual/spiritual bond that will overcome the fact that this sexual choice your partner makes (and that you, if you continue to have intimate relations with him given your knowledge, make) may indeed end up giving you an STD. Perhaps one, like herpes or HPV, that cannot be cured.

It's hard enough -slash impossible - to really KNOW whether ONE partner in a relationship is or remains STD free. I cannot imagine the exponential risks of incorporating other "buddies" into the mix without an STD slipping through once in a while. The only way to insure an STD free existence, barring abstinence, is to have a mutually monogamous relationship. Once that is off the table, you must either become someone who is OK with the occasional STD, or re-evaluate your situation.

STDs are not moral judgments. They are pathogens. But you have to decide for yourself your acceptable level of risk versus reward.

Best of luck to you.



"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline Ann

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2012, 12:11:49 PM »

I dont want to put myself at risk, nor do i want to be in an open relationship with this guy...this all seems so backwards.


Loa,

That sounds like a deal-breaker to me. If you don't want an open relationship, maybe it's time to cut your losses now rather than later when you're even more attached to him. Don't go putting yourself at risk with some guy you only recently met. BB sex lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv, herpes and hpv are forever.

You also need to know that an untreated STI like gonorrhea or chlamydia can increase the amount of hiv in the genital tract, regardless of whether or not he is undetectable in his blood.

You need to do some soul-searching over this. Nobody has the right to put you at risk for any STI, but only you have the power and the means to protect yourself.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Loa32

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2012, 12:14:03 PM »
Basic respect is indeed a deal breaker.

Of course pozzies bareback a lot. And, of course, they get other STDs at the same rate as the rest of the population who has unprotected sex.

If you wear a condom with your positive partner, you will be protected from HIV. You may, however, get

Syphilis
Gonorrhea
chlamydia
hepatitis
HPV/Genital warts
herpes

These pathogens can be spread despite the consistent and correct use of condoms for penetrative anal sex.

You have to decide what your level of acceptable risk is, and to what lengths you will do to protect yourself.

If you choose to stay with your partner then you need to continue to get tested for STDs at least twice a year - and monitor yourself, of course, for any symptoms (chancres, discharge, painful urination, bumps and the like). Because more likely than not, your partner will continue to forego condoms on occasion. And while using a condom for anal sex will prevent HIV, you will continue to be at risk for other, more easily acquired STDs.

Maybe you guys have a great emotional/intellectual/spiritual bond that will overcome the fact that this sexual choice your partner makes (and that you, if you continue to have intimate relations with him given your knowledge, make) may indeed end up giving you an STD. Perhaps one, like herpes or HPV, that cannot be cured.

It's hard enough -slash impossible - to really KNOW whether ONE partner in a relationship is or remains STD free. I cannot imagine the exponential risks of incorporating other "buddies" into the mix without an STD slipping through once in a while. The only way to insure an STD free existence, barring abstinence, is to have a mutually monogamous relationship. Once that is off the table, you must either become someone who is OK with the occasional STD, or re-evaluate your situation.

STDs are not moral judgments. They are pathogens. But you have to decide for yourself your acceptable level of risk versus reward.

Best of luck to you.

thanks for the response:)
I appreciate you taking the time out to write.
Im just starting to evaluate what my own comfort levels are. Ive never been in these circumstances before. Never been in an open relationship, let alone a relationship with an HIV positive man.
I would like to stay negative!..
Although I think if I could top my partner and NOT use condoms he would be more satisfied not having sex outside of the relationship, or at least more likely to adhere to our condom rules.
He is undetectable and consistent with his meds. Ive heard so much about topping an undetectable HIV positive person and how it is unlikely to transmit HIV. I would really like to just do that. Ive heard about prep trials or some sort of preventative vaccine. I really dont wantt o put myself at risk, but I really want to top him with out condoms. is this a catch 22 or is there a way i can make this happen?

Offline Loa32

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2012, 12:27:16 PM »
Loa,

That sounds like a deal-breaker to me. If you don't want an open relationship, maybe it's time to cut your losses now rather than later when you're even more attached to him. Don't go putting yourself at risk with some guy you only recently met. BB sex lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv, herpes and hpv are forever.

You also need to know that an untreated STI like gonorrhea or chlamydia can increase the amount of hiv in the genital tract, regardless of whether or not he is undetectable in his blood.

You need to do some soul-searching over this. Nobody has the right to put you at risk for any STI, but only you have the power and the means to protect yourself.

Ann

Thanks Ann.

Your responses always make me feel better.

Its so weird. He has so many insecurites about being HIV positive and really just wants to be loved..yet he is in this world of free sex and drugs and to me it seems like a very self destructive place...but by day, he is a dr!!...his personal and professional life is very contrasting..Im pretty intimidated by that world but I see that he craves a bit more normalcy in his life and when we are together its pretty great. I dunno, i guess I want to take care of the guy..

I really want him to feel like he is satisfied with sex. I think that would do wonders for the relationship and make him feel a bit like the alternative scenario was less important. Again, I definitely DO NOT want to become positive but I  would love to be able to top him without a condom. Is there a fail safe way that i can do this?...I dont want him to feel like the only way he can feel satisfied with sex is if it is with someone else.

I already ended things...but when I did, he kind of begged and pleaded for another chance. Saying that this relationship was an incentive to practice safer sex. I am torn. I dunno, maybe just cause its valentines day;P

Offline Loa32

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2012, 12:42:03 PM »
Loa,

That sounds like a deal-breaker to me. If you don't want an open relationship, maybe it's time to cut your losses now rather than later when you're even more attached to him. Don't go putting yourself at risk with some guy you only recently met. BB sex lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv, herpes and hpv are forever.

You also need to know that an untreated STI like gonorrhea or chlamydia can increase the amount of hiv in the genital tract, regardless of whether or not he is undetectable in his blood.

You need to do some soul-searching over this. Nobody has the right to put you at risk for any STI, but only you have the power and the means to protect yourself.

Ann

I can handle the open relationship part..
Although I think if I could top him and NOT use condoms he would be more satisfied not having sex outside of the relationship, or at least more likely to adhere to our condom rules.
He is undetectable and consistent with his meds. Ive heard so much about topping an undetectable HIV positive person and how it is unlikely to transmit HIV. I would really like to just do that. Ive heard about prep trials or some sort of preventative vaccine. I really dont wantt o put myself at risk, but I really want to top him with out condoms. is this a catch 22 or is there a way i can make this happen?

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2012, 12:46:45 PM »
If your partner is on meds and undetectable, then your risk is minimal.

It is not, and no one will ever say it is zero. Far too many factors come into play.

If you are in an open relationship, given the parameters you described, you are more than likely going to get some form of STD or another along the way. Some people are fine with that, take medication/treatment and go one. Others are not fine with that. If you are going to be OK with that risk/eventuality, then on that (rather superficial) level you have your answer.

But I wonder. You want to take care of this guy? Who is taking care of you?

I know, it's Valentine's Day. Romance is a wonderful thing. But if your partner is living a life of "free sex and drugs" then, by default, so are you.

You deserve to be happy. To get back what you give. To not be afraid.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline Ann

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2012, 12:52:50 PM »
Loa,

There is NO 100% fail-safe way to remain hiv negative - other than total abstinence.

Condoms have been proven, without doubt, to prevent hiv infection when they are used correctly and don't break. PreP does not yet have a proven track record - some people in the studies still got infected.

You need to keep in mind if he picks up something like anal chlamydia or gonorrhea, don't bet on the VL in his anal mucosa being undetectable. And there's no magic pill to keep you safe from any of the other STIs either.

Look at it this way - if he were hiv negative, would you put up with the open relationship and him BBing? It almost sounds to me like you want to "take care of him" ie mother him just because he's poz. You'd be better off getting a puppy. You won't be doing him any favours either - it's a weird feeling when you know a big reason someone wants to be with you is so they can "take care of you" just because you have hiv.

We can't tell you what to do. You're not ok with an open relationship and if he refuses to give that up, you're either going to have to come to terms with it or end the relationship. I'm in an open relationship myself, but I'm 100% ok with it and I know I can trust my partner to always use condoms outside our bed.

At the end of the day, no, we can't give you any guarantees that you will remain hiv negative if you BB with him, regardless of his VL or you taking PreP. You will, however, remain hiv negative if you use condoms and use them correctly so they don't break.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Loa32

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2012, 01:05:19 PM »

You need to keep in mind if he picks up something like anal chlamydia or gonorrhea, don't bet on the VL in his anal mucosa being undetectable. And there's no magic pill to keep you safe from any of the other STIs either.

Look at it this way - if he were hiv negative, would you put up with the open relationship and him BBing? It almost sounds to me like you want to "take care of him" ie mother him just because he's poz. You'd be better off getting a puppy. You won't be doing him any favours either - it's a weird feeling when you know a big reason someone wants to be with you is so they can "take care of you" just because you have hiv.


Ann

also, if he had anal chlamidya or gonorrhea would this be asymptomatic?..or would it be somthing he would be aware of?...My initial post was in relation to a condom breaking and now Im wondering if this poses a new risk if he had either of those sti's?..what is the likelihood of his viral load in the anal mucous transmitting hiv to me in that instance that i intially described?

Im comortable being in an open relationship if I can trust that there is condom use outside of the relationship. I Do not want to be his mother, nor do i want a puppy. I didnt express that very clearly, What i meant is that I want to take care of him because hes such a warm hearted, affectionate guy and I love him. i also want him to take care of me..I just meant its hard to let him go, because despite this bumps, hes a lovely man.

Offline Ann

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2012, 01:12:04 PM »
loa,

Gonorrhea and chlamydia can both be present with no obvious symptoms. Up to 80% of the time, in fact.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline alberche

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2012, 04:20:29 PM »
Dear Loa,

My BF is neg, I'm poz. We use condoms, we have had some condom break/slip  incidents in all these years, but we have not had any problem. I'm on meds and with undetectable viral load, and we remain still the same: me poz, him neg.

As Andy and other friends in the forum stated, being undetectable and compliant with meds means much less risk of transmission. If you are negative and top (insertive sex) your risk is also lower than if you were bottom (receptive sex). So, summing both factors, the risk of transmission is low enough as to think that a broken condom won't equal a noticeable risk of transmission. (Assuming you reacted reasonably quickly when you realized condom had just broken).

Nevertheless, this is a good idea to be tested after a condom break incident or any similar risk situation, when you are in a serodiscordant couple. But I wouldn't be particularly worried about it, in terms of getting infected, as far as base conditions: undetectable viral load of your partner, and consistency in condom use, remain unchanged.

Having bareback sex with your partner could mean a higher risk, because viral load is not an static figure, it goes up and down in little degrees from one day to another. Also, any other STD (herpes, gonorrhea, syph, and so on) could increase the risk of transmission, even when viral load is undetectable. STDs are not noticeable in many cases. Symptoms could be similar to other conditions, and external signs do not always appear. So, a condom, always, even if it breaks occasionally, seems to be the best friend.

I hope this helps,

Hugs!

love is blindness...  a wonderful song!

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2012, 05:29:02 PM »
Alber, I know your intentions are the best. However, I need to remind you of our rule that only those who are authorized to respond to other members may offer comments in this particular forum.

Thanks for your cooperation in the future.
Andy Velez

Offline Loa32

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2012, 07:18:51 PM »
Dear Loa,

My BF is neg, I'm poz. We use condoms, we have had some condom break/slip  incidents in all these years, but we have not had any problem. I'm on meds and with undetectable viral load, and we remain still the same: me poz, him neg.

As Andy and other friends in the forum stated, being undetectable and compliant with meds means much less risk of transmission. If you are negative and top (insertive sex) your risk is also lower than if you were bottom (receptive sex). So, summing both factors, the risk of transmission is low enough as to think that a broken condom won't equal a noticeable risk of transmission. (Assuming you reacted reasonably quickly when you realized condom had just broken).

Nevertheless, this is a good idea to be tested after a condom break incident or any similar risk situation, when you are in a serodiscordant couple. But I wouldn't be particularly worried about it, in terms of getting infected, as far as base conditions: undetectable viral load of your partner, and consistency in condom use, remain unchanged.

Having bareback sex with your partner could mean a higher risk, because viral load is not an static figure, it goes up and down in little degrees from one day to another. Also, any other STD (herpes, gonorrhea, syph, and so on) could increase the risk of transmission, even when viral load is undetectable. STDs are not noticeable in many cases. Symptoms could be similar to other conditions, and external signs do not always appear. So, a condom, always, even if it breaks occasionally, seems to be the best friend.

I hope this helps,

Hugs!

thanks for writing:)

Offline Loa32

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2012, 01:17:14 PM »
Does anyone know how likely the risk of infection of HIV would be, if my partner had gonorhea or chlamydia, but had an undetectable viral load and I was topping him for a minute or two after a condom break and I came inside him?...

I would like to know the potential risk of transmission of HIV in this scenario.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2012, 03:22:49 PM »
His having some other STD does not make it more likely for him to pass on HIV to you. It's only if you have an active STD that your immune system would be more vulnerable to transmitting HIV.
Andy Velez

Offline Loa32

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2012, 04:15:52 PM »
His having some other STD does not make it more likely for him to pass on HIV to you. It's only if you have an active STD that your immune system would be more vulnerable to transmitting HIV.

Thanks Andy. Although i did recieve some contrasting info from one of the other mediators on this forum.

I was told, that in the presence of another sti, such as gonorhea or chlamydia, that the anal mucous in the rectum, would not have an undetectable viral load. meaning that there would be a detectable amount of virus in the anal mucous.

 If this is the case, what is the likelihood of HIV transmission if I was topping my undetectable HIV positive partner and the condom broke after a minute of penetration, and he had another sti?...would the viral load in the anal mucous be a likely route of transmission?

Just dissecting the information Ive been given.

Offline Loa32

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2012, 07:41:46 PM »
Anyone?

Offline Ann

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2012, 07:26:51 AM »
Loa,

If a poz person has an active STI such as gonorrhea or chlamydia in their genital tract or anal canal, it means that they may have (MAY have, not definitely WILL have) an increased viral load in the secretions produced by that part of the body - ie semen, vaginal fluid, or anal mucosa.

This is why the two caveats for unprotected, heterosexual, serodiscordant intercourse for the purpose of conception are having an undetectable VL in the blood, but ALSO not having any active STIs in the genital tract.

Active STIs in the genital tract mean that there may be a detectable hiv viral load in the genital tract, even though it remains undetectable in the blood.

We cannot give you any hard and fast numbers when you ask "what are my chances?"  Any time you have unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse with a poz person, you are taking a chance. That's the bottom line.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Loa32

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2012, 03:26:39 PM »
Loa,

If a poz person has an active STI such as gonorrhea or chlamydia in their genital tract or anal canal, it means that they may have (MAY have, not definitely WILL have) an increased viral load in the secretions produced by that part of the body - ie semen, vaginal fluid, or anal mucosa.

This is why the two caveats for unprotected, heterosexual, serodiscordant intercourse for the purpose of conception are having an undetectable VL in the blood, but ALSO not having any active STIs in the genital tract.

Active STIs in the genital tract mean that there may be a detectable hiv viral load in the genital tract, even though it remains undetectable in the blood.

We cannot give you any hard and fast numbers when you ask "what are my chances?"  Any time you have unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse with a poz person, you are taking a chance. That's the bottom line.

Ann

thanks for taking the time out to write Ann..
I realize i put myself in the situation choosing someone who I wasnt able to trust..I imagine the risk is still fairly low given his undetecable viral load but at this point im just trying to stay positive..( no pun intended)
I will deal with what ever result comes my way and keep u posted in this forum..Hoping for a negative result..but I guess it wont be the end of the world if I test postive...anyway.

Offline Ann

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2012, 06:42:05 AM »
Loa,

Yes, your risk is still quite low. But it is NOT non-existent.

It won't be the end of the world if you test positive, but it WILL be the end of the world as you currently know it. The Realm of Poz is a foreign land and there are rules, laws (yes, laws) customs and financial burdens you'll have no choice but to become familiar with. Do yourself a favour and don't go there.

Ann

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Loa32

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Re: MY NEW BF IS POZ(UNDETECTABLE)..IM NEG. WE HAD SEX(I TOPPED) CONDOM BROKE:(
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2012, 12:25:36 PM »
Loa,

Yes, your risk is still quite low. But it is NOT non-existent.

It won't be the end of the world if you test positive, but it WILL be the end of the world as you currently know it. The Realm of Poz is a foreign land and there are rules, laws (yes, laws) customs and financial burdens you'll have no choice but to become familiar with. Do yourself a favour and don't go there.

Ann

Yes maam

 


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