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Author Topic: ARS how late can they occur..?  (Read 9085 times)

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Offline Norw

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ARS how late can they occur..?
« on: January 31, 2012, 02:37:17 AM »
3 months ago I had my last risky encounter with a sexworker, I've had a total of 8 episodes in the last 6 months. (stupid I know). At the last encounter I got a blowjob unprotected from this 40 year old european prostitute. I am in my late 20's and have never been so scared in my life. (Will never do anything like this again).

I've tested negative at:
4 weeks (rappid duo test).
5 weeks (duo test at the doctors, sent to the national microbiologylab).
6 weeks (rappid duo test).
7 weeks (rappid duo test).
8 weeks (duo test at the doctors, sent to the national microbiologylab).
9 weeks (rappid duo test).

I'm taking a test at 12 weeks (3months) but I am so scared.
Now at day 82 I've gotten some swollen glands on the left side of my neck and some white coating on my tongue (easy to brush away), I feel rather fatigued and my appetite is not there.

Plz help..!

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2012, 02:47:04 AM »
Getting your penis sucked is in NO WAY a risk for HIV.

If you wear a condom for penetrative vaginal and anal sex you will avoid HIV.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Norw

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2012, 02:59:55 AM »
Hi thanks for answering. I know many people say that oral sex is next to zero risk, but the thing is that there still is a risk, dont mean to sound like a total hypocondriac, but I have been giving some oralsex to some prostitute women to.. The thing is that I am married, and my wife has gotten this redness on her face and some on her chest. I know that I have been an idiot and stupid, and that I probably desserve to get hiv, but I am so scared for my wifes situation. She itches all over and got very dry skin (she has had eczema for many years) but what she got now looks more severe... I know I have been a total idiot, so I dont need the lectures I need adwise, if there are any. -the reason for me asking about ars and telling my story, is that if I do not have hiv then neither does my wife.. I pray to God that if I got it then I hope and pray that I have not infected her..

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2012, 03:13:16 AM »
Hi thanks for answering. I know many people say that oral sex is next to zero risk, but the thing is that there still is a risk, dont mean to sound like a total hypocondriac, but I have been giving some oralsex to some prostitute women to.. The thing is that I am married, and my wife has gotten this redness on her face and some on her chest. I know that I have been an idiot and stupid, and that I probably desserve to get hiv, but I am so scared for my wifes situation. She itches all over and got very dry skin (she has had eczema for many years) but what she got now looks more severe... I know I have been a total idiot, so I dont need the lectures I need adwise, if there are any. -the reason for me asking about ars and telling my story, is that if I do not have hiv then neither does my wife.. I pray to God that if I got it then I hope and pray that I have not infected her..

There has never in the thirty odd years of the pandemic been a documented case of HIV transmission from getting a blow job.

I did not say "next to no risk "

I said NO risk.

Not only is saliva uninfectious, it contains over a dozen elements that neutralize HIV.

You can not get HIV from getting your penis sucked.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Norw

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2012, 03:29:52 AM »
I sure hope you're right. :) But then there is cunilingus (licking a female), that is one of the reasons for me to ask how late the ARS can occur.. I have given oral sex to three prostitutes the last time I did was about 3,5 months ago..

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2012, 03:32:37 AM »
I sure hope you're right. :) But then there is cunilingus (licking a female), that is one of the reasons for me to ask how late the ARS can occur.. I have given oral sex to three prostitutes the last time I did was about 3,5 months ago..

Cunnilingus also does not transmit HIV.

The only documented transmission sexual vectors for HIV infection are unprotected vaginal and anal sex. Wearing a condom will protect you from HIV in those sexual activities


"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Norw

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2012, 04:11:21 AM »
I am thankful for the positive messages you put down here, but I have to correct you, a quick search online will show you plenty information about the subject, example: http://www.aidsmap.com/Oral-sex/page/1044877/

I do agree that the risk is less in oral sex, but not zero.

Do you know anything about how late ARS can occur?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2012, 04:31:29 AM »
No incident HIV infections among MSM who practice exclusively oral sex.
Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States

Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update
J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228

AIDS: Volume 16(17) 22 November 2002 pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men

Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan
Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.

Studies which show the fallacy of relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to carefully controlled study insofar as HIV transmission risk is concerned:

Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117
Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;

Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.

There is no debate (among experts) about the HIV risks associated with oral sex. The risk is so low that almost nobody who cares for HIV infected patients has ever had a patient believed to have been infected that way. Among experts, it's a semantic issue about using terms like "no risk" and "very low risk". There is no difference between my or Dr. Hook's use of "low risk" and other experts' "no risk".
DR. HANSFIELD

"And oral sex is basically safe sex -- completely safe with respect to HIV and although not zero risk for other STDs, the chance of infection is far lower than for unprotected vaginal or anal sex. Please educate yourself about the real risks. If you stick with oral sex and condom-protected vaginal or anal sex, you have no HIV worries and very little worry about other STDs. " DR HANSFIELD

"I am sure you can find lots of people who believe that HIV is transmitted by oral sex, but you will not find scientific data to support this unrealistic concern..." DR HOOK

"HIV is not spread by touching, masturbation, oral sex or condom protected sex."- DR. HOOK

in the public HIV Prevention forum of MedHelp, TEAK and the other moderators maintain that oral sex in all forms is a zero risk activity. Would you agree with this assessment?
I TOTALLY AGREE / DR GARCIA
"HIV is not spread by masturbation, through oral sex, through kissing or other casual contact." Dr. Hook
"The observation on thousands and thousands of observations is that HIV is not spread by oral sex (of any sort)." DR HOOK
"I would not say your risk ,if he had HIV is "slim to none"- that's too high.  I would say they are effectively zero.  How much of his ejaculate or other genital  secretions you may have swallowed makes no difference.  EWH "
"As far as HIV is concerned, there is no known risk of getting HIV from performing oral sex on an infected partner, even if that person's genital secretions get into your eyes or if you swallow." Dr.Hook
HIV is not spread by oral sex, giving or receiving, even if sores, gum disease or blood is present
 DR HOOK

Offline Norw

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2012, 05:08:19 AM »
Thank you for that post :) Made me feel a lot bether! I hope and pray that Dr's are right! Thank you!

Offline Ann

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2012, 05:35:27 AM »
Norw,

Giving oral to a woman isn't a risk. Hiv transmission doesn't stand a chance of happening via female genitals to mouth - there are just too many obstacles on the oral route.

The first obstacle is the mouth itself. The mouth is a veritable fortress, standing against all sorts of pathogens we come into contact with every minute of our lives. It's a very hostile environment and saliva has been shown to contain over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv.

Hiv is a very fragile virus - literally. Its outer surface doesn't take kindly to changes in its preferred environment; slight changes in temperature, moisture content and pH levels all damage the outer surface. Importantly, it needs this outer surface to be intact before it can latch onto a few, very specific cell types and infect. 

Which leads to the second obstacle. Hiv can only latch onto certain types of cells, cells which are not found in abundance in the mouth.

The third obstacle to transmission this way is having hiv present in the first place. The female secretion where hiv has been shown to be present is the cervicovaginal fluid. This fluid is actually a thick mucus that covers and protects the cervix, which is deep inside the vagina and not accessible to the tongue.

The fluid a woman produces when sexually excited comes from the Bartholin's glands, located on either side of the vaginal opening. I have yet to discover one shred of evidence (and believe me, I've looked) that shows this lubricating fluid to have any more hiv present than other bodily secretions such as saliva, sweat or tears. Saliva, sweat and tears are NOT infectious fluids.

So there you have it. Once the results of the serodiscordant studies** started rolling in, what we know about hiv transmission on the cellular level was validated. The only people who were getting infected were those who had unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse. Period. One of the three studies went on for ten years and involved hundreds of couples. That's a lot of nookie.

**There have been three long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one.

While I'm not going to lecture you about your activities, I would like to point out that saying you "deserve" hiv because of those activities is an attitude that perpetuates the stigma those of us who are living with hiv face on a daily basis. Nobody deserves this virus for doing something that is a natural, normal, human activity - even when you've paid for it. Commercial sex is called "the oldest profession" because people have been doing it since forever - it's just human nature. Nobody deserves hiv for following their human nature. OK?

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Norw

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2012, 03:19:22 AM »
Thank you all for the possitive information, a sigh of relief!

So, in other words: since I have practiced only safe sex (used condom) in all the episodes with vaginal penetration, (I have not performed or received anal sex). The only contact has been through oral sex (giving and receiving), by what I understand, this means that I can't have been infected with hiv by any of the 8 incidents through the last 6-7 months.

I am going for my 3 month test (84 days) tomorrow. I will post my result!
If you are reading this I hope you will put in a little pray for me. :)

Thank you
God Bless

Offline Ann

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2012, 05:30:28 AM »
Norw,

I fully expect your test to be negative.

You also need to test for all the other more easily transmitted STIs. You should be doing this at least once a year. Not having symptoms like a discharge is no reason to not have this done - some of the STIs can be present with no obvious symptoms, so the only way to know for sure is to test.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Norw

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2012, 02:31:18 PM »
Hi again.
I have just one question, Its now 3 months after last sexual episode, is it possible to get ARS at this time (so long after possible infection?). I got swollen lymph nodes on my neck 4-6 of them, they do not hurt and range from 1 cm - 2,5 cm, they are easy to move around and feel rather firm. Happy for any reply. Thnx

Offline RapidRod

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2012, 03:50:28 PM »
No.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2012, 04:01:53 PM »
The average time to seroconversion is 22 days.

All but the smallest number of those who are going to seroconvert will do so within 4-6 weeks after an exposure.

So now, ARS would not be happening at this point.

Discuss your swollen lymph nodes with your doctor. Like Ann I expect your test result to be negative. 
Andy Velez

Offline Norw

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2012, 08:27:46 AM »
Hello again.
I took my 3 month test today, a 2nd. generation rapid duo/combo test and it came back negative.. Thank God! I think this is conclusive.. right?

I would just like to say thanks for this forum, and the informative help you guys are doing here! It really is an awsome job you guys are doing for all of us who is frightened! I hope you will keep up the same good job of helping people for a long time! Thank you all! Good Luck to everyone who strugles like I did! I hope and pray for you all!

Rgds
Norw

Offline RapidRod

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2012, 08:32:04 AM »
You never had an exposure.

Offline Ann

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2012, 08:35:45 AM »
Norw,

Yes, you are conclusively hiv negative. Remember to use condoms in future and you'll remain hiv negative. It really is that simple!!!!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Norw

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I still have doubts. Please advice.
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2012, 10:33:53 AM »
Hi. I have posted here in this site earlier. As many others before me I still have doubts about my HIV status, although I was told here on this forum that I am negative. I also tested. Negative at 86 and 90 days, the test at 90 days was a duo/combo test at my MD (dr). I had sex with my wife one week after last possible infection and she has had facial redness with small bumps for over two months (still not gone) she also has dry skin on hands that itches (she has eczema) she also itches on her scalp, legs and waist. Her skin seems to be mild red and white on many aereas (face, arms, hands and torso). I keep getting some very small white blisters on my tongue (1 mm) ( one or two at a time). Now Ive gotten a bigger one under the back of my tongue.
My exposure was 15 weeks ago and was protected vaginal sex but I received unprotected oral. Before this incident Ive had sex with 7 prostitutes. Condom was used every time. But I have given unprotected oral sex to 3 of them and received unprotected oral sex on 2 occasions, last unprotected oral sex I got is 15 weeks ago. The last unprotected oral sex I performed was over 4-5 months ago.
I also got some facial redness but not so much as my wife. The thing that worries me is that I got several swollen lymph nodes on my neck and I think I got them under my arms (armpit) to, maybe also on the chest area.

Prior to the last tests I have taken 5 tests that all have been negative. Approx 1 test a week after the first 4 weeks window period.

Is there any reason for me to go for more tests? I have been examed for a possible ms diagnosis but I have been told that I do not have ms (multiple sclerosis). If I did have ms would this affect the HIV test? Could it be that one of the condoms did not protect me properly or that I might have gotten HIV from oral sex even tough I was told here that it is not possible to get HIV from oral.

I know I am grasping here, but I am still wery worried.
Thankfull for answers.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2012, 12:19:43 PM »
Norw, I have merged your threads here. In the future please follow our rule as given in the opening thread of this section and keep all of your entries in the same thread.

As for your ongoing concern, there is no doubt about the reliability of your negative result(s). Nothing you have reported has put you at risk for HIV. And your negative result at 3 months confirms that.

Whatever is going on with your wife's rash has nothing to do with HIV. She should discuss it with her doctor.

As with so many other straying partners and husbands, guilt about the incidents is your real culprit. We can't help you with that in this setting. All we can say unreservedly is that the problem is not HIV. Period.

I'm also going to caution you that we're not going to go on another round of back and forth with you about this situation. You're HIV negative. And if you continue to come back with more doubts and questions you are going to find yourself getting a Time Out from the site. Consider yourself warned.

HIV is NOT your problem. Period.
Andy Velez

Offline Norw

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Sorry to post again, but this is terrifying!
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2012, 07:31:41 AM »
Hi again. I know you gave me a warning.. but I do not know ehere to turn..
I tested neg at 13 weeks.

I had unprotected vaginal sex with my wife 2-3 weeks after my last risk encounter and periodicly after this.
But now at 4 months after my possible infection, my wife is showing some terrifying hiv symptoms. For 6 days ago she got fever and body aches along with redness (rash) on her face (she has had some redness on her face since 4 weeks after my last risk encounter) but this is more severe. Her fever has been worse at evening/night time, around and over 38 celsius. She has no energy and she almost would not eat, this lasted for 5 and a half day. She had night sweats two days in a row, night before the fever went down.
Now she has been coughing for 2-3 days, a little sore in the throat and today she got diarrhea. She says that she has never been this sick and not for so long. There is flu season in my country, but she in the 9 years I have known her she has never been this sick... She still feels sick, body aches and redness in face, and some tingling in her stomach (since day one).
The thing is that painkillers takes it all away..?
 I am so unbelievable scared and do not know what to do.. Please help me.. Could it be that I am a late seroconverter? My life is ruined... Help me God
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 07:36:51 AM by Norw »

Offline Ann

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2012, 07:54:44 AM »
Norw,

The only people that sometimes (not always - in fact it's rare) take a little longer than three months to seroconvert and test positive are people who are on chemotherapy for cancer, anti-rejection drugs following organ transplant, or have been injecting street drugs, every day for years. I doubt you fall into any of those categories.

Get a grip. You cannot give your wife something you do not have yourself, and you DO NOT HAVE HIV!!!

Unless your wife has been having unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse with someone other than you, then hiv is not her concern.

If she feels unwell, she should see a doctor. We cannot diagnose her here nor can we recommend any drugs for her to take.

You do NOT have hiv. If your wife has been having unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse outside your marriage, then she should test. If she has only been having intercourse with you, then whatever is going on has NOTHING to do with hiv.

YOU. DO. NOT. HAVE. HIV!!!

If you read the Welcome Thread before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Quote

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.


Please consider yourself warned for the last time!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Norw

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2012, 06:14:25 AM »
Hi, from a slightly less worried well.

It has now been over 5 months since my risky encounter with a csw. And I am finally starting to slowly believe that I did not get infected with hiv.

I could just really need some ease of mind :)

Is there no way that I could have been infected with hiv from performing oral sex on 3 different females csw´s, and the same question about 3 received blowjobs. I have tested out to 5th month for both hiv and other std´s. - all negative.

1) - Is it now 100 % sure that I am not infected with hiv (I have had no other   
  encounter the past 5 months).

2) I know my gums occasionally bleed after brushing and flossing, and I tend to have sore and cracked lips, I also tend to have small rifts on my foreskin. Even with this additional information... is there still 100% sure that I am not infected, after 5 month negative hiv test.


The reason that I ask this again is to keep my mind from spinning... I had the worst flu of my life 3 weeks ago with pneumonia and I immediately thought of late seroconversion.

3( Would I know if I had a compromised immune system.


I know that the answers in this forum is always the thruth.

Thankfull for answers (it's ok if I get banned after this question, just please answer).

the best of wishes
Norw
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 06:17:07 AM by Norw »

Offline Ann

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Re: ARS how late can they occur..?
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2012, 06:33:31 AM »
Norw,

You have been repeatedly told that you never had a risk. Even if you DID have a risk, you have more than tested conclusively hiv negative.

You are absolutely, positively hiv NEGATIVE.

1. Yes, it is 100% true that you do NOT have hiv.

2. Yes, it is 100% sure that YOU DO NOT HAVE HIV!!!

3. Yes, you would know if your immune system was compromised. The only people who might take a little longer than six weeks to seroconvert and test positive are those people on chemotherapy for cancer, anti-rejection drugs following organ transplant, or those who have been injecting street drugs, every single day for years. Even these people will normally test positive by three months at the latest.

You do NOT have hiv.

Keep coming back with more of the same and you WILL be given that time out you've been repeatedly warned about.

THIS IS YOUR ABSOLUTE LAST WARNING!!!!

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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