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Author Topic: Disclosure blah blah blah  (Read 21825 times)

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Offline AdonisSMU

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #100 on: January 29, 2012, 02:14:46 PM »
I'm innocent because I got my AIDS safely within the confines of a committed monogamous one-sided relationship.  :o

Offline denb45

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #101 on: January 29, 2012, 02:20:05 PM »
I'm innocent because I got my AIDS safely within the confines of a committed monogamous one-sided relationship.  :o

HONEY ....nobody in this forum is really innocent as far as how we all got teh AIDS, I'm not buying that one at all , unless someone shoot teh AIDS into your ass, and lied to you and said they didn't have it  PLEASE  ;D
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #102 on: January 29, 2012, 02:22:05 PM »
I'm innocent because I got my AIDS safely within the confines of a committed monogamous one-sided relationship.  :o

Was this some sort immaculate infection?

"Vagenda was shocked to hear from the nurse at the free clinic that she done got herself da clap again, even though she ain't been giving it up for no one, no how, for quite some time. Unfortunately, no one bought her Immaculate Infection explanation, not even her minister."
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline AdonisSMU

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #103 on: January 29, 2012, 02:28:47 PM »
Was this some sort immaculate infection?

"Vagenda was shocked to hear from the nurse at the free clinic that she done got herself da clap again, even though she ain't been giving it up for no one, no how, for quite some time. Unfortunately, no one bought her Immaculate Infection explanation, not even her minister."
I guess you could say an immaculate infection of sorts...for lack of a honest explanation.  :-X

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #104 on: January 29, 2012, 02:31:04 PM »
I guess you could say an immaculate infection of sorts...for lack of a honest explanation.  :-X

I thought that was the way it always happened???!  That is, unless you were like me and got teh AIDS from huffing brown bottles on the dance floor   ::)
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline denb45

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #105 on: January 29, 2012, 02:32:28 PM »
Recently I saw a post on CL where this neg guy was seeking a leather daddy to party him up and whore him out and force him to take loads so that he would seroconvert in the end and I had thought about originating a thread about how bizarro it is that there are still bug chasers in existence and how people felt.  He actively was recruiting poz men in his ad, and said no load refused.

Glad I didn't now with the way this thread is going  ;D

Back in 81 I was only 24 going on 25, did I use poor judgment putting that syringe into my arm, YES, I'd say so  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #106 on: January 29, 2012, 02:34:48 PM »
Back in 81 I was only 24 going on 25, did I use poor judgment putting that syringe into my arm, YES, I'd say so  ;)

How conservative of you aging sequentially and all .

Offline denb45

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #107 on: January 29, 2012, 02:35:51 PM »
I guess you could say an immaculate infection of sorts...for lack of a honest explanation.  :-X

Yeah right........ immaculate infection my ass,  hey I gotta bridge to sell you in southern New Mexico, and it's REAL CHEAP  ;D ;D ;D
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline mecch

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #108 on: January 29, 2012, 02:36:40 PM »
Even thought I practice this 99.9% of the time... at what point does personal responsibility come into play? I don't know the other person's sexual history. I assumed if they are adamant about having unprotected sex then they must be like like me. This HIV stuff is so complicated. I get a head ache thinking about it. Sometimes I just want to end it all.
Dont think about it to that point Adonis. 
You didn't get much reponse to the thread, but I did try to put it in perspective.
You are not morally compromised.. Just consider if there were any legal risks.  And in any event, I think you need to put this in perspective and act cooly and very rationally in your own best interests.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline denb45

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #109 on: January 29, 2012, 02:38:09 PM »
How conservative of you aging sequentially and all .

Oh gee Jeff ....that's so sweet of you dear  :-* age and experience has it's merits.........right?
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #110 on: January 29, 2012, 02:42:15 PM »
Back in 81 I was only 24 going on 25, did I use poor judgment putting that syringe into my arm, YES, I'd say so  ;)

Actually your behavior was rather commonplace in the pre-AIDS days, as many of us were indulging in all sorts of things before GRID appeared because we didn't know any better.  Think about it, if you got an STD, you ran into fags that you saw in the bar all the time at the clinic getting popped in the ass and taking raw dick the minute they left the clinic  ;)

I honestly don't think people (especially gay men) of a certain age deliberately set out to get infected.

But if given the choice now if I could jump in a time machine and go back, I probably would do the same shit all over again as I feel becoming poz has made me a better person - when it comes to appreciating life (after having a near death experience from PCP) and people.  I accept full responsibility for getting pozzed up. No one forced me to do any of the shit I did back in the day.

(And) for the record, I do disclose openly... and I prefer to connect with other pozzies.  I have been in sero-discordant relationships in the past but I was just too fearful of doing something that might infect the other person, no matter how careful we were. 
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline mecch

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #111 on: January 29, 2012, 02:42:30 PM »
I only brought this because I have lost sleep over that other post. I can't get it out of my head. I never said to disclose to your neighbors and ect. I said we should disclose to sexual partners before intercourse.

You have a right to make your own moral jugement about a particular situation, based on the information you have heard.
Your mistake is that you are making a "general" or "universal" moral judgement and there are millions of  acts of intercourse and many millions of people for which, for whom, your moral judgement doesn't hold water.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline AdonisSMU

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #112 on: January 29, 2012, 02:47:33 PM »
Actually your behavior was rather commonplace in the pre-AIDS days, as many of us were indulging in all sorts of things before GRID appeared because we didn't know any better.  Think about it, if you got an STD, you ran into fags that you saw in the bar all the time at the clinic getting popped in the ass and taking raw dick the minute they left the clinic  ;)

I honestly don't think people (especially gay men) of a certain age deliberately set out to get infected.

But if given the choice now if I could jump in a time machine and go back, I probably would do the same shit all over again as I feel becoming poz has made me a better person - when it comes to appreciating life (after having a near death experience from PCP) and people.  I accept full responsibility for getting pozzed up. No one forced me to do any of the shit I did back in the day.

(And) for the record, I do disclose openly... and I prefer to connect with other pozzies.  I have been in sero-discordant relationships in the past but I was just too fearful of doing something that might infect the other person, no matter how careful we were.
That's interesting I feel the same way. Things can always be worse off than they currently are.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 02:49:07 PM by AdonisSMU »

Offline mecch

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #113 on: January 29, 2012, 02:49:37 PM »
The monster statement was about pozzies Going out and not disclosing and having bare sex and infecting people because they just don't want disclose makes all pozzies look like monsters to the out side communities.

My feeling is that you haven't fully come to terms with your diagnosis nor the relationship full of lies that produced it.  Nor how to live well with it.  Its a killer virus, has a dirty reputation because its an STD, and it costs a lot to treat.  The treatment is VERY effective if you are living a life that can pay for it.

What is more, you seem to think disclosure is necessary because you seem to think that there are such poz monsters.  You kind of paint your ex as one of them.

Life has a LOT of grey areas my dear.  Where black and white doesn't tell the whole story.  Where contradictions coexist.  I feel that its time for you to start thinking with more naunce and freedom about the value and truth of things.  This might mean, however, that your improve you critical capacity to look at and think about situations.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #114 on: January 29, 2012, 02:50:49 PM »
Yeah right........ immaculate infection my ass,  hey I gotta bridge to sell you in southern New Mexico, and it's REAL CHEAP  ;D ;D ;D

HEY!!!! That's not fair!  You promised to sell that bridge to me!  Oh well, back to Ebay.  Maybe I will just buy some nice desert property in South Florida.  My friend said he can get me some real cheap.

BTW, right after being diagnosed I had sex with a beautiful female prostitute (I didn't disclose) - just found out that she got pregnant and had my love child.... below is a family picture:

September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline denb45

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  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #115 on: January 29, 2012, 02:52:05 PM »
Actually your behavior was rather commonplace in the pre-AIDS days, as many of us were indulging in all sorts of things before GRID appeared because we didn't know any better.

(And) for the record, I do disclose openly... and I prefer to connect with other pozzies.  I have been in sero-discordant relationships in the past but I was just too fearful of doing something that might infect the other person, no matter how careful we were.

Nothing to be fearful of being in a sero-discordant relationship, I've been in one for many many yrs. our sex-life is GREAT, were both the same age, and do share a lotta of the same likes & dislikes, however, were both 2 very different versions of gay men, and i think that alone keep the fires burning with the both of us after all these yrs.  ;)


EDITED TO ADD:   STOP thinking about this as teh AIDS,  sero-discordant, pozzies only or whatever, I jumped that old tried hurdle yrs ago, and went on with my life
it is what it is, please don't allow teh AIDS to define you as a person, a monster, or dateless & desperate, you'll never enjoy life as a whole thinking and being that way about yourself  ;)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 03:02:40 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline AdonisSMU

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #116 on: January 29, 2012, 02:52:39 PM »
I thought that was the way it always happened???!  That is, unless you were like me and got teh AIDS from huffing brown bottles on the dance floor   ::)
Hahaha!!! ;D

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #117 on: January 29, 2012, 03:07:24 PM »
My feeling is that you haven't fully come to terms with your diagnosis nor the relationship full of lies that produced it.  Nor how to live well with it.  Its a killer virus, has a dirty reputation because its an STD, and it costs a lot to treat.  The treatment is VERY effective if you are living a life that can pay for it.

What is more, you seem to think disclosure is necessary because you seem to think that there are such poz monsters.  You kind of paint your ex as one of them.

Life has a LOT of grey areas my dear.  Where black and white doesn't tell the whole story.  Where contradictions coexist.  I feel that its time for you to start thinking with more naunce and freedom about the value and truth of things.  This might mean, however, that your improve you critical capacity to look at and think about situations.

Say it again, but next time LOUDER, Mecchie.  You hit the nail on the head.  This is the underlying issue that many people have been trying to point out since the very start of the OP's threads, especially when he was trying to rationalize whether he should stop taking ARVs.  It was evident that it felt like he was still in denial because he had become one of them and the meds were validating that very fact.

Which is sad, as it's a common theme that people feel the need to think they become less of a person if they succumb to taking the evil drugs because it somehow is a dead giveaway that they are now tainted.

Nothing to be fearful of being in a sero-discordant relationship, I've been in one for many many yrs. our sex-life is GREAT, were both the same age, and do share a lotta of the same likes & dislikes, however, were both 2 very different versions of gay men, and i think that alone keep the fires burning with the both of us after all these yrs.  ;)


EDITED TO ADD:   STOP thinking about this as teh AIDS,  sero-discordant, pozzies only or whatever, I jumped that old tried hurdle yrs ago, and went on with my life
it is what it is, please don't allow teh AIDS to define you as a person, a monster, or dateless & desperate, you'll never enjoy life as a whole thinking and being that way about yourself  ;)

True, Dennis... I dunno.  I just don't think I'm at the point in my head that things could be OK with someone who's neg.  Maybe it's for selfish reasons, because the particular men I was involved with were fairly limited in how far they were willing to venture, sexually -- and hand jobs and blow jobs don't make it out of the ranks of foreplay to me.  Who knows?  If I met a neg guy who was a bit more informed than the ones I was involved with and I didn't feel so limited, then maybe I'd give it a shot  ;)
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #118 on: January 29, 2012, 03:10:53 PM »
BTW, right after being diagnosed I had sex with a beautiful female prostitute (I didn't disclose) - just found out that she got pregnant and had my love child.... below is a family picture:


In that case, Philster, I'm wondering if I can get Michael Fassbender to impregnate me?  He has a beautiful schlong   ;)

don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline newt

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #119 on: January 29, 2012, 03:21:34 PM »
Intercourse, or indeed in Anglo-saxon vernacular shagging, is not the only situation where disclosure is important, employment may be one, telling family may be another. Perhaps one reason why there are many disclosure threads on many forums.

Sex is not always equal, indeed is sometimes transactional, accompanied by personal risk, involves dodgy people, secrets and wider considerations like if  I tell my husband I tested positive at the maternity unit and he kicks me out or gets violent as he is prone to who will look after the kids/will I end up in bits and pieces/dead? This may be another reason.

Disclosing to yourself is the first step, and getting in a paddy over sexual rejection because of HIV means you still ain't okay about being positive and the limitations it sometimes brings. This is common, and perhaps a third reason for disclosure threads.

So long live disclosure threads, for like efavirenz side effects questions they will always be current for the forseeable future. Esp when the world is so unreal about HIV that you can get 35 years for spitting at a prison guard if your are poz.

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Joe K

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #120 on: January 29, 2012, 03:43:05 PM »
I have to say I am stunned at the amount of disclosure questions. I get the hard part of it when it comes to dating and when and how to tell. What I don't get is why is there even a question about disclosing before you have sex. We all have a moral responsibility to tell any and all sexual partners. I got a lot of shit from people about being all high and mighty about the subject. We all ( for the most part) are here because someone didn't disclose to us. Do you really want to do this to some one else all in the sake of getting some. If you answered yes, well you have no morals and you make the rest of us look like monsters.

Bottom line folks, it is your responsibility to tell.  You dont want to, well tuff shit. Do the right thing.  The world will be a better place because you did. My mom always says god doesn't like ugly.  I couldn't agree more with her.

My opinion is that you have no power over anyone and why should anyone listen to you, when you refer to us as monsters and typical queens.  I've tried so hard to be supportive of you and your situation, but until you accept the fact that you are just as guilty in becoming poz... there is nothing more to say.  I don't trust people who insist that others live by their morals, especially when their own morals are suspect.  I also don't trust people who intentionally delude themselves into believing they are the perpetual victim.

Nothing will change for you until you mature enough to realize that you allowed yourself to become poz.  You seem intent on avoiding your own major issues and instead you choose to project your horror and shame on everyone around you.  Sorry, life does not work that way.  Very few things are either black or white and we are all responsible for both what we do to others and what we allow to be to done to ourselves.  The whole idea of disclosure is to protect others from harm, however, there are many ways to protect others, other than through disclosure alone and it still takes two people for anyone to become infected.

One last thought.  Morals come from within us, not from some imaginary being.  I find that trying to invoke a god in a discussion about disclosure to be counter productive.  Religious faith has never been a good predictor of how one should act in life and it's a contradictory source on which to base the laws of humans.  Opinions are one thing, moralizing and demonizing anyone with whom you do not agree is quite another.

You might want to show a little more respect for the members of this forum.

Joe

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #121 on: January 29, 2012, 03:56:58 PM »
This is where I say have a good day. And mike thanks for giving me Slack that is so so kind of you
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline bocker3

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #122 on: January 29, 2012, 04:26:46 PM »
This is where I say have a good day. And mike thanks for giving me Slack that is so so kind of you

So, it all fell on deaf ears -- I suppose that isn't so surprising.  Now you can go wallow in your victimhood, with the surety that you are right and the world is wrong. 
I truly hope you come to a point of peace with your infection -- it may, quite literally, be the difference between life and death -- or at least between a life of unhappiness, where someone else's error in judgement (based on his posts, not my judgement) keeps you awake in moral indignation or a life of living.....

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline Joe K

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #123 on: January 29, 2012, 04:30:45 PM »
This is where I say have a good day. And mike thanks for giving me Slack that is so so kind of you

Jake,

I hope you don't think that I do not comprehend what you may be feeling, because I do.  I can't imagine what it would be like to be cheated on and contract HIV.  Your moral outrage at what has happened, is right and necessary, until it isn't.  I know how challenging it can be, to have conflicting thoughts and feelings, it's hard and at times it can seem overwhelming.  I get that, I really do.  What I also know, is that not all feelings are facts and some feelings can be very damaging.

I'll guess that you might feel dirty, because you have HIV and how you got it.  I'll even venture that because of what your ex did, which in your mind, made him a monster, might influence how you see yourself, as a monster and full disclosure will somehow mitigate that horror.  My point is you are not a monster, you are poz.  What happened to you was not right, nor was it fair and you cannot change the past.  Grieve if you must, but at some point you need to explore why you dislike yourself so much.  I'll be honest, the journey with HIV can be very hard, parts of it can almost crush your spirit and the physical and psychological aspects can take years to address.  There is nothing you can do to change history, nothing.

All you can do is to find a place, within yourself, where you can make sense of all that has happened.  I sometimes get frustrated with folks who just won't consider there are many ways to see a situation and that feelings can and do influence our perceptions.  I just want to help you heal and all I can offer is that you need to start addressing these issues, because they can destroy you.  I've spent years in therapy, so that someone could help guide me to a place of contentment with myself.

It doesn't mean that I delude myself, or claim it wasn't that bad, because it was and it hurt like hell.  Through therapy and meds I have been able to see myself for who and what I am and to love what I see.  That's what I want for you Jake.  For you to not feel like a monster, or someone who is not worth saving through meds, because you are not a monster and you matter.

Sometimes people need to be pushed to get moving and that's what I am doing for you.  Please take the time to invest in yourself.  You can adjust to being poz and live the life you need.  Right now, you still seem so angry that I fear you will never begin to understand how damaging that can be.  I'm hoping that sharing some of these ideas, can help you to avoid some of the pain that I endured, because I didn't know any better.

Joe

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #124 on: January 29, 2012, 06:16:32 PM »
Post infection moralizing is tedious.

Offline thunter34

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #125 on: January 29, 2012, 06:45:33 PM »
Post infection moralizing is tedious.

WORD.

I have slogged through this thread today, and it's one of those times when I couldn't decide if I was more (a.) irritated enough to reply or (b.) too fatigued with it all to bother.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Buckmark

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #126 on: January 29, 2012, 08:51:44 PM »
WORD.

I have slogged through this thread today, and it's one of those times when I couldn't decide if I was more (a.) irritated enough to reply or (b.) too fatigued with it all to bother.

I'm in the same position, Tim.  But here I go, though I'm probably wasting my breath.

PozJeepGuy, you believe that HIV+ people  who don't disclose before having sex are "wrong" and "have no morals" and are "monsters".   So what?  That doesn't do a damn thing to change the fact that some people don't disclose, for host of reasons.    For those who are struggling with the stigma of being HIV+, you've just ratcheted up the stigma a few more notches.    The world is not packaged up as "black and white" as you would like it to be.  I'd rather have the open conversations about why people don't disclose.  That's where people learn, come to an understanding of themselves, and build the self-confidence to do things like disclose, and combat stigma, and go about living their life with HIV.  But your position on the moral high ground seeks to obviate these conversations and the need for them, and that's why I am irritated.


P.S. edited only for grammar
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline zach

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #127 on: January 29, 2012, 09:04:07 PM »
c. can't decide exactly what to say

 :-X

Offline thunter34

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #128 on: January 29, 2012, 09:57:18 PM »
I'm in the same position, Tim.  But here I go, though I'm probably wasting my breath.

PozJeepGuy, you believe that HIV+ people  who don't disclose before having sex are "wrong" and "have no morals" and are "monsters".   So what?  That doesn't do a damn thing to change the fact that some people don't disclose, for host of reasons.    For those who are struggling with the stigma of being HIV+, you've just ratcheted up the stigma a few more notches.    The world is not packaged up as "black and white" as you would like it to be.  I'd rather have the open conversations about why people don't disclose.  That's where people learn, come to an understanding of themselves, and build the self-confidence to do things like disclose, and combat stigma, and go about living their life with HIV.  But your position on the moral high ground seeks to obviate these conversations and the need for them, and that's why I am irritated.


P.S. edited only for grammar

I can always trust you, Henry, to managing the right words for what I'm having trouble finding a way to spit out.

I read another thread on here a few days back - one mentioned in this one about the guy who had had BB sex and was feeling remorse about it - and I was pretty appalled by the pile-on that some people chose for that guy.  People falter, they make bad choices, they flat out screw up from time to time.  I think it took a lot of guts on that guy's part to post that thread in the first place. 

I have to say that I have a lot more respect for that guy's motives for posting than I do for the OP's of this thread.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Joe K

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #129 on: January 29, 2012, 10:26:18 PM »
This thread has nothing to do with disclosure

This pretty well sums up this thread.  The disclosure angle was just the hook, not the subject.  If nothing else, some of the responses may help others to avoid becoming so delusional, so that they act against their own best interests.  Abject denial is never pretty.

Joe


Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #130 on: January 29, 2012, 10:57:10 PM »
This pretty well sums up this thread.  The disclosure angle was just the hook, not the subject.

↟↟↟↟↟↟↟
so troo dis ↟↟↟↟

"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline AdonisSMU

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #131 on: January 30, 2012, 12:07:30 AM »
Post infection moralizing is tedious.
I beat myself up everyday trying to moralize the HIV away.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #132 on: January 30, 2012, 01:04:20 AM »
I beat myself up everyday trying to moralize the HIV away.

Someday, hopefully soon, you will stop. And when you do, you will have beaten this thing, regardless.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #133 on: January 30, 2012, 10:42:55 AM »
I beat myself up everyday trying to moralize the HIV away.

Sorry you're at this point in your infection, some of us go through it needlessly.  I wasted a good four years of life I could have spent.... well, enjoying for lack of a better term.  I think this is the OP's issue as well, whether he wants to admit it or not.

Taking the turn to owning our mistakes is a simple one on the road to living with HIV..  Jake's (PozJeep) thread, bitter depression, and an inability to adjust to life living with this disease simply shows he has yet to take this turn.

It's sad, stuff like that can kill you as much as the virus can.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #134 on: January 30, 2012, 11:24:02 AM »
All I said was to disclose to sexual partners.  Nothing that has been said here will change my mind on this.  I still feel we should disclose to all sexual partners.  I refuse to let bitchy, mean, and hateful comments determen my path.  I know there were a few supportive ones, and for those I am thankful.   In the last day of showing friends and family this they are as stunned by people's reaction to this as well.  When I said monster I meant the ass holes who regardless of anything else knowing go out and infect people.  I don't come here looking for approval.  I come here to get advise and see what others have to say.  The first and only real opion I have had at all the subject of HIV (once again to just tell sexual partners) felt like coming out in high school all over again.  I know moving forward I will tell anyone who is newly diagnosed the poz.com is a great website but stay out of the forums.  They will persecute you and ridicule you if you have a different thought then the majority's.
I like who I am and finally starting to stop hating my life and really want to move forward.  It's things like this that make me not want to go back on meds.  If I have to deal with this level of crap for sharing things and have my last post thrown in my face and feel crapy all the time, and so forth and so on.  Well like I just told my family and friends in my personal life.  Just let this run it's course and let's try again in the next life. Thanks espically to rev moon, and miss p for your extra level of coldness.
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline wolfter

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #135 on: January 30, 2012, 11:32:41 AM »
Not going to debate your opinions of the forums or its members, but why would you allow these perceived attacks determine whether or not you'll accept the viable options for treatment?  I wish I could share with you the death and destruction that I witnessed so you would realize this isn't the way to go.  It's a form of sanctioned suicide!!!!  Also of importance; do you really want to put your loved ones through that pain and misery?  Dying of AIDS isn't an instantaneous event, it's prolonged agony.  Truly wishing you well and hope you process this all and figure out the actions that you need in order to overcome it all.

Wishing you great mental heath

Wolfie
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #136 on: January 30, 2012, 11:33:51 AM »
All I said was to disclose to sexual partners.  Nothing that has been said here will change my mind on this.  I still feel we should disclose to all sexual partners.  I refuse to let bitchy, mean, and hateful comments determen my path.  I know there were a few supportive ones, and for those I am thankful.   In the last day of showing friends and family this they are as stunned by people's reaction to this as well.  When I said monster I meant the ass holes who regardless of anything else knowing go out and infect people.  I don't come here looking for approval.  I come here to get advise and see what others have to say.  The first and only real opion I have had at all the subject of HIV (once again to just tell sexual partners) felt like coming out in high school all over again.  I know moving forward I will tell anyone who is newly diagnosed the poz.com is a great website but stay out of the forums.  They will persecute you and ridicule you if you have a different thought then the majority's.
I like who I am and finally starting to stop hating my life and really want to move forward.  It's things like this that make me not want to go back on meds.  If I have to deal with this level of crap for sharing things and have my last post thrown in my face and feel crapy all the time, and so forth and so on.  Well like I just told my family and friends in my personal life.  Just let this run it's course and let's try again in the next life. Thanks espically to rev moon, and miss p for your extra level of coldness.

Oh dry up, you big Shirley.  ::)

Nobody appointed you the Pontificator-in-Chief and that's why you're copping such a hard time now that you've taken that role to yourself.

You're in no position to tell others what to do considering that the rules didn't apply to you when it mattered.

As Saint Theresa of Avila noted

Lord, preserve me from sour faced saints.

MtD

Offline mecch

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #137 on: January 30, 2012, 11:41:00 AM »
When I said monster I meant the ass holes who regardless of anything else knowing go out and infect people.  e next life. Thanks espically to rev moon, and miss p for your extra level of coldness.
A lot of us got the feeling you were saying - every HIV+ must disclose to every partner, regardless of the circumstances, otherwise they are monsters.
You realize being more exact about your categories could prevent some of this inflammatory conversation.  Everyone judges someone who is a Typhoid Mary and doesn't try to keep partners negative.  And infects.  Gee, that is a different topic.

As to why you link the topic of disclosure/nondisclosure to your reasoning why to treat or not treat your HIV infection, it is lost on most of us.  That is behind most of what people are trying to discuss here, with you.  There are self-damaging links between your judgements about how people have sex, and about being HIV+ that are getting all mixed up.   

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline denb45

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #138 on: January 30, 2012, 11:42:56 AM »
I come here to get advise and see what others have to say. 
I like who I am and finally starting to stop hating my life and really want to move forward. 

Getting back on AVRs is probably a very good place to start, I do hope you come to terms with all of this  so you can get a better prospective about your HIV/Health ::)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #139 on: January 30, 2012, 11:44:22 AM »
Mech the only reason I brought the meds and crap was it was thrown at me in a earlier post.  You right when you say I have it all confused.  I will admit that
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #140 on: January 30, 2012, 11:45:45 AM »
Denb I hear ya but I'm honestly don't feel it.
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline denb45

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #141 on: January 30, 2012, 11:50:48 AM »
Denb I hear ya but I'm honestly don't feel it.

Well, I tried  :'( wish there was something I could do to convince you  :'(
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #142 on: January 30, 2012, 11:57:44 AM »
I know moving forward I will tell anyone who is newly diagnosed the poz.com is a great website but stay out of the forums.  They will persecute you and ridicule you if you have a different thought then the majority's.
I like who I am and finally starting to stop hating my life and really want to move forward.  It's things like this that make me not want to go back on meds.  If I have to deal with this level of crap for sharing things and have my last post thrown in my face and feel crapy all the time, and so forth and so on.  Well like I just told my family and friends in my personal life.  Just let this run it's course and let's try again in the next life. Thanks espically to rev moon, and miss p for your extra level of coldness.

Really?  All that was said to you, repeatedly (and not just by me and Philicia), was that you needed to stop the judgemental BS.  Nobody ever told you that you should not disclose before having a sexual encounter.  We all agree on the fact that people who fail to tell others about their known positive status before engaging in unprotected sexual activities are despicable; you made it sound as if every pozzie who doesn't walk around with an AIDS banner on their forehead is a "monster" without morals (your words, not mine).   You stated that you supported every criminal case brought against HIV positive individuals without even considering that things are never just black and white.

If your friends and family read the replies within this thread and they still saw you as being in the right then they are simply enabling you and your victim mentality (and your high and mighty attitude).


Enough with your fucking drama as to whether you should take meds or stay on them. Enough with your high horse riding, throwing morality around and thinking that you are better than the people in this forum. 

You though we were cold?  Mary, please.  Here is cold:  Grow the fuck up.  Stop being such an ultra-sensitive drama queen.  Take your g_ddamned meds when the time comes and take care of your health; in the end that is your decision and your responsibility.  And if you are so supposedly religious and spiritual then stop judging others (as you have done here and in the thread for the guy who had sex with another fella and was highly regretful of his actions).  I've had enough of you and your bullshit, Jake.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 11:59:34 AM by Rev. Moon »
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #143 on: January 30, 2012, 12:03:01 PM »
We all agree on the fact that people who fail to tell others about their known positive status before engaging in unprotected sexual activities are despicable

Actually PozJeep is saying even if you utilize a condom, failure to disclose renders one ineligible for heaven.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #144 on: January 30, 2012, 12:22:46 PM »
Thanks you two. It's always a pleasure seeing your names pop up.  As always a pleasure to read. 
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #145 on: January 30, 2012, 12:26:50 PM »
Thanks you two. It's always a pleasure seeing your names pop up.  As always a pleasure to read.

Well you know, they live to serve. :)

MtD

Offline contagion

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #146 on: January 30, 2012, 12:33:29 PM »
Has anyone here had sexual contact without disclosing?
I have a t-shirt with my t-cells on it.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #147 on: January 30, 2012, 12:35:07 PM »
Has anyone here had sexual contact without disclosing?

define sexual contact
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #148 on: January 30, 2012, 12:39:04 PM »
Has anyone here had sexual contact without disclosing?

Yup. What's it to you?

MtD

Offline Joe K

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #149 on: January 30, 2012, 12:41:22 PM »
All I said was to disclose to sexual partners.  Nothing that has been said here will change my mind on this.  I still feel we should disclose to all sexual partners.  I refuse to let bitchy, mean, and hateful comments determen my path.  I know there were a few supportive ones, and for those I am thankful.   In the last day of showing friends and family this they are as stunned by people's reaction to this as well.  When I said monster I meant the ass holes who regardless of anything else knowing go out and infect people.  I don't come here looking for approval.  I come here to get advise and see what others have to say.  The first and only real opion I have had at all the subject of HIV (once again to just tell sexual partners) felt like coming out in high school all over again.  I know moving forward I will tell anyone who is newly diagnosed the poz.com is a great website but stay out of the forums.  They will persecute you and ridicule you if you have a different thought then the majority's.
I like who I am and finally starting to stop hating my life and really want to move forward.  It's things like this that make me not want to go back on meds.  If I have to deal with this level of crap for sharing things and have my last post thrown in my face and feel crapy all the time, and so forth and so on.  Well like I just told my family and friends in my personal life.  Just let this run it's course and let's try again in the next life. Thanks espically to rev moon, and miss p for your extra level of coldness.

Maybe we need a juvenile section of the forums, because I haven't witnessed such a tantrum since my daughter was about four.  Your callous disregard for members of this forum, as witnessed by your generalizations and mean spirited comments is appalling.  You can't even demonstrate one iota of maturity by admitting that some posters made reasoned and compassionate responses to your post.  I'll bet you would not dare show this thread to your family/friends because it's very clear who the victims are here and they are not you.  You even have the gall to mention that we reference things you have said, as if having some continuity of your story is a bad thing.  Or might it be that your "words" betray you as the frightened and ungrateful person that you appear to be?

I no longer care if you take your meds or try and get your life together, because I have lost all respect for you.  You lie and attempt to manipulate what others say, in good faith, to defend whatever your issue du jour happens to be.  I'm possibly one of the most tolerant and supportive people you will ever find and it takes an awful lot to repulse me.  Jake, you repulse me by your words and deeds.

I don't expect any reasoned response from you, as you are unable to comprehend anything that does not fit into your world view.  Your last few "pithy" comments to posters, merely displays your utter contempt for anyone who challenges your views.  So stay whatever course you choose and if you remember, tell your family to let us know when you die, so your story can serve as a warning to others.

Joe

 


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