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Author Topic: Disclosure blah blah blah  (Read 18142 times)

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Offline PozJeepGuy

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Disclosure blah blah blah
« on: January 28, 2012, 10:42:06 PM »
I have to say I am stunned at the amount of disclosure questions. I get the hard part of it when it comes to dating and when and how to tell. What I don't get is why is there even a question about disclosing before you have sex. We all have a moral responsibility to tell any and all sexual partners. I got a lot of shit from people about being all high and mighty about the subject. We all ( for the most part) are here because someone didn't disclose to us. Do you really want to do this to some one else all in the sake of getting some. If you answered yes, well you have no morals and you make the rest of us look like monsters.

Bottom line folks, it is your responsibility to tell.  You dont want to, well tuff shit. Do the right thing.  The world will be a better place because you did. My mom always says god doesn't like ugly.  I couldn't agree more with her.
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2012, 10:48:58 PM »
We all ( for the most part) are here because someone didn't disclose to us.

Uh, no -- you obviously don't get it. We got here because we failed to use a condom. Someone telling you when you're negative that they're positive (or negative) achieves zilch in the absence of a condom during sex. And if you don't get that then, well tuff shit. My mom always says god doesn't like dumb.  I couldn't agree more with her.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline bocker3

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  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2012, 11:06:29 PM »
I rarely take anyone seriously who throws around judgements around the "morals" of others.  It is a word that is entirely to subjective to use "against" anyone but yourself -- follow your morals and don't worry so much about others.

While I, personally, believe that I would always disclose (I say "believe" because I haven't a crystal ball and am human, so who knows) -- who made you the judge and jury of other's actions?  Some would say you have no morals for having sex with condoms when you caught the virus -- I mean, you could have given someone the clap!

And, as Miss (or Ms, or Mrs -- I can't keep up) P stated -- no one "gave" you HIV, you accepted it when you let a condomless cock up your butt. 

M
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2012, 11:25:19 PM »
I got my HIV from my ex husband.  And that was after we both went and got tested twice. Then he decided to be a fuckin dick and cheat and lie and didn't share his adventures till it was to late. Thats how I got infected. 

What gives me the right to share my view. Well hmmmm it's a public forum and every one here gives their opion.  I am tired already of the secrets that just keep stigma alive and that I have to deal with because of the actions of others.  You honestly believe it's ok to sleep with some one when you know your positive. You are dead wrong. To purposely do this to another (I said purposely, meaning you know and don't care) you should be prosecuted. I am fucking tired of hearing on the news and reading in papers and ect. About HIV positive people that go out and due this. We have the power to stop this by just saying I'm HIV positive.
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline phildinftlaudy

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  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2012, 11:37:27 PM »
You honestly believe it's ok to sleep with some one when you know your positive. You are dead wrong. We have the power to stop this by just saying I'm HIV positive.

So, how is the weather up there - I say up there because to say someone is "dead wrong" is giving you the ultimate authority over such matters - a very high position, if I may say so myself. Now, if you want to say it is your OPINION that someone is wrong to do so, then that is another story, but to just declare someone as wrong is a very arrogant statement to make.

Long story short..... it is not about US having the power to stop this. If someone is mature enough to get butt ass naked with someone else in bed (or wherever) then they need to have the responsibility to make the ADULT decision to either insist on a condom or not... if they choose not to insist, then it is that person's own fault (it is called personal responsibility) if they get HIV, Hepatitis, Syphilis, etc, etc.  It is not the other person's responsibility to tell the person that they have HIV, Hep, or Syph.......  Now, if they choose to do so, then fine, but to say that the other party has no responsibility when it is THEIR body that is going to be affected, just doesn't jive with me...

Talk about perpetuating a stigma ---- it is actually opinions such as yours --- opinions that make it the infected person's responsibility to tell the non-infected person and remove all responsibility from the non-infected person that perpetuate more stigma than you can even fathom....

And that....... is my opinion. 

So, disclosure, blah, blah, blah..... but if someone is not infected and wants to stay that way...... then either don't have sex or use/insist on the other person using a condom.....    It really is that simple.

-Phil (who is tired of people wanting others to take responsibility for something that they need to own up to --- that is if they claim to be an adult).
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2012, 11:43:34 PM »
Of course it's everyone else's responsiblity.  Cop out answer
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline phildinftlaudy

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  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2012, 11:51:23 PM »
Of course it's everyone else's responsiblity.  Cop out answer

Whatever man - and your answer that it is not the other person's responsibility at all is just as much if not more of a cop out answer...

If a person if going to crawl into bed with another person - and if that person is at all worried that they might be putting themself at risk - then they would use or insist on the other party using a condom. That simple.

Relying on another person to disclose is utopian  -- and conveniently removes any accountability for responsible behavior from the non-infected person.

If that isn't a "cop out" on the other party's part, then I don't know what is...

But, your entitled to your opinion - and entitled to express it -- but, doesn't mean that I have to agree with it.....
and until such time as I see your name on the bottom of my paychecks or find out that you are indeed the second coming of Christ, then I shall not bow down to your opinion, not out of lack of respect, but because responsible people know how to think for themselves.  Took me a while to figure that one out - had I done it about 3 or so years ago, I might be a member of the Non-pos crew.... but, I choose to be okay with no condom so here I sit...... I never felt like it was the other person's responsibility to tell me, as I have a mouth and a voice and it was MY responsibility to use condoms, since it is my body, if I didn't want to end up in this spot.

September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2012, 12:00:24 AM »
I choose not to fuck over my sexual partners and choose honesty. I own this and hope others do the same.  It's easy to hide behind fake photos and post things anonymously. It's another to own it and help make change and end stigma
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline phildinftlaudy

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  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2012, 12:13:22 AM »
I choose not to fuck over my sexual partners and choose honesty. I own this and hope others do the same.  It's easy to hide behind fake photos and post things anonymously. It's another to own it and help make change and end stigma
I hope your shot at the "fake photos" isn't directed toward me - I am out about my status - at work, with family, with friends, etc. (can you say the same? hopefully so) -- I have also participated OPENLY in AIDS activism events..... my status is out there - nothing to hide here --- stigma does not come from not disclosing to a sex party - stigma may come from not disclosing outside the bedroom. Studies have actually shown that stigma increases by fully putting disclosure responsibility on the person with HIV and removing ALL responsibility from the non-poz partner.

It is comparable to saying that it is another person's responsibility to wake me up for work ---- NO, IT IS MINE.  It is another person's responsibility to drive safe and the passenger has NO responsibility to WEAR A SEATBELT.

Oh, and to show you that disclosure laws actual cause harm and undermine HIV Prevention messages - by making non-positive people think they have NO RESPONSIBILITY in protecting themselves here is some reading/research for you (of course, given your mindset - you probably won't read it.... cause see, therein lies the problem, most people with opinions such as yours don't feel it is THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to educate THEMSELVES --- instead they want to rely on others... Just like they want to RELY on the positive person to disclose, rather than OWN THEIR RESPONSIBILITY for SAFE SEXUAL BEHAVIOR if they want to remain negative - in case you really don't want to read and digest everything below, I put the main idea of the research findings in BOLD.

from The Journal of Law, Medicine & Ethics, Summer 2004, "Toward Rational Criminal HIV Exposure Laws" by Carol L. Galletly, and Steven D. Pinkerton.

Unprotected anal intercourse is the riskiest sexual activity. The probability of HIV being transmitted from an HIV-infected man to his uninfected partner through a single act of unprotected anal intercourse is approximately 1 in 50 if the infected man is the insertive partner and 1 in 2000 if he is the receptive partner. The risks associated with unprotected vaginal intercourse are relatively small as well: approximately 1 in 1000 for male-to-female transmission and 1 in 2000 for female-to-male transmission. Less is known about the probability of HIV transmission through oral sex. Although there have been a small number of cases in which HIV reportedly was transmitted through cunnilingus, analingus, or being the insertive partner in fellatio, the risk associated with these activities is generally (though not universally) considered to be negligible. In contrast, while the risk to the receptive ("giving") partner in fellatio is less than the risk associated with anal or vaginal intercourse, it is not negligible. One study estimated the per-act risk to the partner performing fellatio to be 1 in 2500. Co-factors that can increase the likelihood that HIV would be transmitted by these activities include gum disease, infection of the mouth or throat by a sexually transmitted infection (STI), or other lesions in the oral cavity.

When used correctly and consistently, latex condoms reduce the likelihood of HIV transmission by as much as 90% or more.13 Stated another way, condoms reduce the probability of HIV transmission by about a factor of 10. For example, the probability of an infected man transmitting the virus to his partner during a single act of condom-protected anal intercourse is 1 in 500 if the infected man is the insertive partner and 1 in 20,000 if he is the receptive partner.

These transmission estimates assume that the partners engage in the specified sexual activity only once. Multiple sex acts increase the probability of transmission in an approximately linear fashion. For example, engaging in the same activity twice approximately doubles the risk of transmission.

It is important to note that there is considerable uncertainty surrounding the transmission probabilities cited above. These difficult-to-estimate probabilities represent averages over groups of people and neglect potential interpersonal and intrapersonal variability in infectiousness and susceptibility to HIV infection. A number of factors play a role in whether a person will become HIV infected after exposure to the virus, including the strength of the exposed person's immune system, the infected person's stage of HIV disease and, in particular, the quantity of virus in his or her genital fluids, and whether or not the infected person is receiving effective antiretroviral treatment, which decreases viral load. The presence of transmission-facilitating factors in either partner, such as genital or anal lesions or other disrupted tissue, or infection with a sexually-transmitted pathogen other than HIV also plays a role in determining whether a person who is HIV-exposed will become HIV-infected. These uncertainties preclude pinpointing the exact risk associated with a particular sexual activity. Nevertheless, it is clear that a hierarchy of risks exists and, moreover, that these risks are generally small.

One way to depict these generalized estimates of risk is to categorize sexual activities according to one of three levels of risk (e.g., lowest risk, medium risk, and highest risk.) Sexual activities that pose the lowest risk of HIV transmission include masturbation of a partner and receiving cunnilingus or fellatio. Sexual activities that occupy the mid-range of risk for HIV transmission include insertive anal and vaginal intercourse, and giving fellatio. Sexual activities that pose the highest risk of HIV transmission include receptive anal and vaginal intercourse.

So what messages do these laws send? First, they ignore the protective potential of condoms. from Gallety and Pinkerton again:

Finally, sensible and meaningful HIV exposure law is based on conscious choices about actual risk and criminal intention. Efforts to reduce the risk of HIV transmission through condom use or through the practice of less risky sexual activities impact of these central factors. Both condom use and the practice of less risky behaviors such as mutual masturbation dramatically reduce the likelihood of HIV transmission and provide substantial evidence that an individual is not deliberately attempting to infect a partner. The lack of consideration given to risk reduction measures in the majority of criminal HIV exposure statutes is a striking omission.[...]

condom use or the practice of alternative sexual behaviors reduces risk sufficiently to be considered a mitigating factor or a defense to criminal prosecution for exposure, omitting discussion of condom use entirely runs counter to prevailing public health messages which stress practicing safer sex with all partners until they are sure of their own and their partners' serostatus. To whatever extent possible, HIV exposure laws and public health recommendations should avoid sending mixed messages to HIV-infected persons (and to persons at risk of HIV infection) regarding what is or is not risky, and what is or is not prosecutable behavior.

In another study by Professor Carol Galletly and Professor Steven Pinkerton from the Center for AIDS Intervention Research, at the Medical College of Wisconsin's Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Medicine found:

Public health interventions aimed at preventing HIV transmission emerged as formidable, though not infallible, forces with which to contain the US epidemic. Unfortunately, one of the nation's most broad-reaching, and some might argue, potentially most powerful tools with which to disseminate and reinforce this public health response, the criminal law, promulgated a message of a different kind.

The two researchers conclude "existing HIV serostatus disclosure laws not only fail to complement public health prevention efforts to promote condom use, they appear to undermine them."

Moreover, the disclosure-based norm endorsed by these laws encourages at-risk persons to rely on prospective sex partners to disclose their HIV status, if positive, and to assume that there is minimal risk absent positive serostatus disclosure. Serostatus disclosure laws thus may foster a false sense of security among HIV-negative persons who may choose to forgo condom use unless notified of their partners' HIV-positive status.

September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline spacebarsux

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  • Posts: 1,350
  • Survival of the Fittest
Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2012, 12:18:22 AM »
PozJeepGuy,

3 Important Things to bear in mind:-

1. Most of us (read as in overwhelming vast majority) acquired our infection from someone who didn't know they were infected and passed it on unwittingly.

2. Condoms (if used correctly) are 100% effective and scientifically proven to stop onward transmission.

3. After someone learns their HIV status, the overwhelming vast majority would take full and thorough measures and precautions to ensure that onward transmission does not take place. And don't forget, HIV poz people are much better informed about tansmission risks (undetectable vl, condom use etc etc) and act responsibly.

Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline Growler

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2012, 12:29:58 AM »
Wait a second girls!

Just let me sit back and crack open a beer......

Ok I'm ready now, let the Blood Sports begin!!

GROWLER (Whose already bored with this shit)
ďIf loving someone is putting them in a straitjacket and kicking them down a flight of stairs, then yes, I have loved a few people.Ē

Offline phildinftlaudy

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  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2012, 12:38:28 AM »
Links to full articles/citations are below the excerpts - from Phil - who hopes that Growler has at least a six pack of beer ready to go   ;D
And who also believes that research and rationale should form the basis of action and generates thought --- otherwise, opinions are worthless.

Why Should HIV Nondisclosure Laws Be Overturned?

ē   HIV criminalization laws do nothing to reduce the rate of new HIV infections.
ē   Such laws undermine HIV-prevention efforts by deterring people from being tested. ("Hey, if I don't get tested and don't know my status, I can't be charged or prosecuted.")
ē   They increase fear and stigma surrounding HIVers.
ē   They result in punishment (often severe) under circumstances that are not blameworthy and where no harm (and in some cases even potential harm) was done.
ē   Such laws are often applied unfairly and at best inconsistently.
ē   There are laws already on the books that can be used to prosecute the extremely rare cases where someone transmits HIV with the intent to do harm.

Criminalization places the responsibility for preventing HIV transmission disproportionately on HIVers.
http://hero9999.posterous.com/a-different-perspective-on-privacy-vs-legally

and
Some research and public health interventions have focused on encouraging HIVseropositive individuals to reveal their serostatus to their partners, predicated upon the assumption that disclosure will increase the safety of subsequent sexual activity with informed partners. This review examines the empirical literature on disclosure of HIV serostatus and subsequent sexual risk behaviors of HIV-infected individuals. Only 15 of the 23 studies reviewed provided data that allowed us to examine the association between disclosure and safer sex. Fewer still provided a methodologically sound analysis, and those that did provided conflicting results, often with significant effects limited to only 1 subgroup of participants. However, this failure to demonstrate a consistent association does not necessarily mean that disclosure is irrelevant to the practice of safer sex. The limitations of the research to date and implications for policy and practice are discussed.
http://www.iasusa.org/pub/topics/2004/issue4/109.pdf

and

Ontario Working Group on Criminal Law and HIV Exposure (CLHE)
POSITION PAPER ON THE CRIMINALIZATION OF HIV NON-DISCLOSURE

Position Statement
The criminal law is an ineffective and inappropriate tool with which to address HIV exposure. HIV/AIDS is an individual and public health issue first and foremost, and should be addressed as such. All legal and policy responses to HIV/AIDS should be based on the best available evidence, the objectives of HIV prevention, care, treatment and support, and respect for human rights.

Rationale
The increasing number of criminal charges that are being laid each year in Canada, and in particular in Ontario, in cases of non-disclosure of HIV-positive status have raised alarm bells amongst people living with HIV (PHAs) as well as organizations working with and advocating for the rights of PHAs and others affected by HIV/AIDS. There is little, if any, evidence to suggest that criminal prosecutions for non-disclosure of HIV-positive status will offer any significant benefits in terms of HIV prevention. On the other hand, there is strong reason to believe that these criminal prosecutions could have negative effects, including hindering HIV testing and access to services, spreading misinformation about HIV, increasing stigma and discrimination associated with HIV, and invasions of privacy.

The Ontario Working Group on Criminal Law and HIV Exposure has come together to oppose the expansive use of the criminal law with respect to issues of HIV exposure. We support a comprehensive evaluation of how Canadaís criminal law is being applied within Ontario with respect to HIV-related issues. We advocate for sound policy responses to HIV prevention and transmission based on the best available evidence, the objectives of HIV prevention, care, treatment and support, and respect for the human rights of all.
http://www.cdnaids.ca/ontarioworkinggrouponcriminallawand

September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2012, 12:46:18 AM »
Wait a second girls!

Just let me sit back and crack open a beer......

Oh wait honey child -- should I go grab one? ::runs to fridge:: OK, I now am having one of these and I know for damn sure it's not available where you live!
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2012, 12:47:16 AM »
First that was not a crack at you in anyway,shape, or form.  Condoms are not 100% effective all the time. Condoms can rip or could have a manufacture defect.  I personally believe we are responsible to disclose with sexual partners. 
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2012, 12:49:00 AM »
I'm confused. I thought this was about your cheating ex-husband and being a victim. Now it's about condoms? ::)
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline AdonisSMU

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2012, 12:50:06 AM »
Well what do you do when you buy a guy condoms and lube to wear and he chooses not to and he proceeds to say that he has a desire to cum in you and when you push him off and he forces it in anyway and keeps threatening you with it until finally have to get him off of you and plead with him to use a condom?

You don't know that the guy is going to be around tomorrow or not. 


Offline phildinftlaudy

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  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2012, 12:55:37 AM »
First that was not a crack at you in anyway,shape, or form.  Condoms are not 100% effective all the time. Condoms can rip or could have a manufacture defect.  I personally believe we are responsible to disclose with sexual partners.
And that's fine that you have that belief -- I think that there are a good many people on here who share that belief. And, even if I share that belief with you, it still does not remove the responsibility from the other person from either practicing safe sex or understanding that when one has sex then they are taking the chance that they may be exposed to HIV or Hep, Syph, etc....  But, solely relying on trusting someone to reveal their status is foolhardy at best --- the best protection is personal responsibility.  It would be like me relying on someone to pay my bills or to wash my clothes or wake me up for work--- if I want to be sure all three of those get done, then I better do them myself..... that is personal responsibility.

That is not to say that I don't feel that one should disclose.... but that is to say that it is just as much the other person's responsibility as it is mine.....  simply said.

Ok, Ms P and Growler - you can put the beers away --- I'm going to bed  (alone) --- although, I do feel that I may have to disclose my status to my hand before I go to bed.... It is the right thing to do   ;)
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2012, 12:56:34 AM »
Miss whatever.  Nice.  Typical queen.

Secondly I would go out fighting with every breath in my body.  No one will ever hold me down and force me. I would stab someone threw the heart in that case. Self denfense. 

Then I could ask what if a alien came in the middle of the night.

All you have to do is disclose with sexual partners. I am floored at the resistants of this. Just don't be a lier.
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline AdonisSMU

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2012, 12:57:00 AM »
First that was not a crack at you in anyway,shape, or form.  Condoms are not 100% effective all the time. Condoms can rip or could have a manufacture defect.  I personally believe we are responsible to disclose with sexual partners.
Even thought I practice this 99.9% of the time... at what point does personal responsibility come into play? I don't know the other person's sexual history. I assumed if they are adamant about having unprotected sex then they must be like like me. This HIV stuff is so complicated. I get a head ache thinking about it. Sometimes I just want to end it all.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 01:31:48 AM by AdonisSMU »

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2012, 12:58:18 AM »
So why didn't you just use a condom with your ex-husband? Every homo knows they all cheat. This ain't rocket science here.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline AdonisSMU

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2012, 01:05:15 AM »
Miss whatever.  Nice.  Typical queen.

Secondly I would go out fighting with every breath in my body.  No one will ever hold me down and force me. I would stab someone threw the heart in that case. Self denfense. 

Then I could ask what if a alien came in the middle of the night.

All you have to do is disclose with sexual partners. I am floored at the resistants of this. Just don't be a lier.
Who said anything about lying? How can you lie about something you've never been asked? Because someone says I have to disclose my sexual history means I should do it when I dont' even know the person. Eeek! I don't think so. More importantly what are they going to do with that information? I tell people personal medical information that I trust. Just because I sleep with someone doesn't mean I trust them with my bank accounts and personal medical information.

Not disclosing is not lying. Lying about your HIV status is lying.

Why dumb down the discussion with the alien talk? You think everyone should believe your cockamania story about your cheating boyfriend when you are refusing to believe someone else who is revealing personal information to you.

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2012, 01:06:25 AM »
I'm a fag and I don't cheat.  Not every gay man is a cheater.  I was a fuckin stupid not to use a condom.  I thought my husband loved me and respected me but I learned the hard way.  Yes my own fault.

Just disclose to your sexual partners. Once they make their choice it's done.  I will be the first one lined up to say yes to HIV crimes being proscuted. If your honest and up front and have nothing to hide then what's the problem.
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2012, 01:07:21 AM »

GROWLER (Whose already bored with this shit)

Gurl, I just got here and this party SUCKS.  Total YAWNFEST. Pinch me!!

Oh, and how interesting that the OP has chosen to ignore the very valid points made by Spacebar. 

Many of us are here cause we chose to ride a cock without protection. The person who gave it to me had tested negative just a month or so before our bareback rendezvous. It was not his fault; it was MINE for assuming that we were invulnerable, for ignoring all my previous experience and knowledge.

G_d. I FUCKING detest victim mentalities and high horses.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2012, 01:08:53 AM »
I'm a fag and I don't cheat.  Not every gay man is a cheater.  I was a fuckin stupid not to use a condom.  I thought my husband loved me and respected me but I learned the hard way.  Yes my own fault.

So then there was no reason to bring it up in the first place in this thread. I guess you were expecting us to feel sorry for you, or what exactly? Basically you proved my point that you have HIV because you didn't use a condom.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Growler

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2012, 01:10:08 AM »
Oh wait honey child -- should I go grab one? ::runs to fridge:: OK, I now am having one of these and I know for damn sure it's not available where you live!
Sweetie.....Boutique or domestic,  it makes no difference. Trust me, when you shake the bottle and shove it up your arse, the effect is just the same ;)

GROWLER
ďIf loving someone is putting them in a straitjacket and kicking them down a flight of stairs, then yes, I have loved a few people.Ē

Offline AdonisSMU

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2012, 01:12:42 AM »
I'm a fag and I don't cheat.  Not every gay man is a cheater.  I was a fuckin stupid not to use a condom.  I thought my husband loved me and respected me but I learned the hard way.  Yes my own fault.

Just disclose to your sexual partners. Once they make their choice it's done.  I will be the first one lined up to say yes to HIV crimes being proscuted. If your honest and up front and have nothing to hide then what's the problem.
If your man is sleeping with you without a condom he doesn't respect you. Chances are he probably didn't even know his status. I support criminalization when there is intent to infect....but even that is suspect because what's happened is every HIV disclosure issue becomes intent to infect in a he said she said case where a disgruntled X lover accuses the other lover of not disclosing. Everyone knows the dangers of not wearing a condom at this point. It's not the early days of HIV anymore. When someone elects not to use the condom that is an acceptance of the risk in my mind.

However, would I tell everyone I plan to have sex with as a general rule? Yes.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 01:18:30 AM by AdonisSMU »

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2012, 01:16:19 AM »
Sweetie.....Boutique or domestic,  it makes no difference. Trust me, when you shake the bottle and shove it up your arse, the effect is just the same ;)

GROWLER

Did she disclose her status before you stuck it up your nether regions?  Or is she another immoral, irresponsible, criminal, evil-doer who spreads disease without any regard to your innocence?



I will be the first one lined up to say yes to HIV crimes being proscuted.

Many times the worst enemies for any minority (in our case the pozzie ghetto) can be found within the community.  Disgusting and quite pathetic.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2012, 01:19:15 AM »
Pozjeepguy, of course people should disclose however your attitude discounts how difficult it is for people to have that conversation. If the you listened to what people post you would recognize how hard it is for some people to disclose. Threatening people with prosecution makes honest communication even more difficult, as does referring to people as monsters.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2012, 01:20:13 AM »

I will be the first one lined up to say yes to HIV crimes being proscuted. If your honest and up front and have nothing to hide then what's the problem.

So then we can assume that you prosecuted your ex? Because they way I remember it you went back and had sex with him after you figured out he'd lied to you and infected you, or am I not recalling that correctly?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline AdonisSMU

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2012, 01:22:48 AM »
So then we can assume that you prosecuted your ex? Because they way I remember it you went back and had sex with him after you figured out he'd lied to you and infected you, or am I not recalling that correctly?
Wait what happened here? Why continue sleeping with someone you yourself have said doesn't respect you?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 01:34:42 AM by AdonisSMU »

Offline Growler

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2012, 01:27:56 AM »
Did she disclose her status before you stuck it up your nether regions?
HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wash your mouth out SIR !!!!!!!

I don't fuck with girls. I might catch GIRL GERMS /////shudder////

GROWLER (Who needs another beer to settle his nerves)
ďIf loving someone is putting them in a straitjacket and kicking them down a flight of stairs, then yes, I have loved a few people.Ē

Offline AdonisSMU

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2012, 01:40:33 AM »
Just for the sake of discussion, who should disclose the bottom or the top in a sero discordant affair?

Bottoms seem like they are much more at risk of not just HIV but other things....

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2012, 01:48:07 AM »
Just for the sake of discussion, who should disclose the bottom or the top in a sero discordant affair?

Bottoms seem like they are much more at risk of not just HIV but other things....

How do you know a pairing is sero-discordant until after you have disclosed? A Ouija board?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline AdonisSMU

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2012, 01:50:21 AM »
How do you know a pairing is sero-discordant until after you have disclosed? A Ouija board?
Good point. I usually assume everyone is positive. I've learned recently that that's a failed strategy. It's better to get that off the table ASAP. I've never topped a guy before. The very thought of it turns me off.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2012, 01:54:10 AM »
I've never topped a guy before. The very thought of it turns me off.

Clutch the pearls, Mavis.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2012, 02:03:08 AM »
Do what you want.  I shared a opion.  Let's all just go out and infect as many as we can.  Why not.  You have no responsibility to anyone.  nice to know this is what we tell people.  Real nice.

I'm learning quick this is a place for bitter people to justify their actions.  I said earlier if you know, not maybe this or that but if you know you are positive you should disclose to sexual partners. 

I shared things about my past and have always been up front. Thanks for taking those and trying to turn them around. No wonder we can't get married, have equal rights, actually put a end to stigma. 

No wonder there are waiting list for access to care. Who cares you don't have to tell you partners.  Let's see this grow and grow. 

This is sad and pathetic
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2012, 02:04:43 AM »
This is sad and pathetic

No, it's beginning to feel a bit reductive  ::)
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2012, 02:07:18 AM »
I say day you say night.  It's a no win.
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2012, 02:09:09 AM »
No, it's beginning to feel a bit reductive  ::)

"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2012, 02:09:36 AM »
I can't wait for my next group to show this conversation.  This is what you can aspect from the HIV community. 
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline AdonisSMU

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2012, 02:09:45 AM »
Do what you want.  I shared a opion.  Let's all just go out and infect as many as we can.  Why not.  You have no responsibility to anyone.  nice to know this is what we tell people.  Real nice.

I'm learning quick this is a place for bitter people to justify their actions.  I said earlier if you know, not maybe this or that but if you know you are positive you should disclose to sexual partners. 

I shared things about my past and have always been up front. Thanks for taking those and trying to turn them around. No wonder we can't get married, have equal rights, actually put a end to stigma. 

No wonder there are waiting list for access to care. Who cares you don't have to tell you partners.  Let's see this grow and grow. 

This is sad and pathetic
Who is justifying anyone's actions? I haven't heard any of that going on. In fact, it's only been you who's been trying to justify your actions. Others are agreeing with you in principle but disagreeing with your way of handling things because it isn't responsible to the sensitivities involved yet you still fail to acknowledge this.

Empirically speaking, the fact of the matter is that your way of handling things hasn't had the desired effect. No one said anything about spreading anything to anyone. You added that in simply to be hysterical because your weak argument failed to gain any traction with people who are educated.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 02:14:05 AM by AdonisSMU »

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2012, 02:10:23 AM »
Do what you want.  I shared a opion.  Let's all just go out and infect as many as we can.  Why not.  You have no responsibility to anyone.  nice to know this is what we tell people.  Real nice.

I'm learning quick this is a place for bitter people to justify their actions.  I said earlier if you know, not maybe this or that but if you know you are positive you should disclose to sexual partners. 

I shared things about my past and have always been up front. Thanks for taking those and trying to turn them around. No wonder we can't get married, have equal rights, actually put a end to stigma. 

No wonder there are waiting list for access to care. Who cares you don't have to tell you partners.  Let's see this grow and grow. 

This is sad and pathetic

You are definitely not very clever, are ya?  Has anyone said at any point not to disclose?  Seems like somebody needs to sharpen those reading and comprehension skills.

You are the one who is stigmatizing and twisting what's been said. 
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2012, 02:12:03 AM »
I say day you say night.  It's a no win.

The issue is, when you place all the blame on one party you're ignoring that the act was consensual between two individuals.  This is why these laws are so poorly constructed.  If I'm a negative person and I'm fucking anyone who tells me that they are HIV- without a condom, eventually I will happen onto a person who is HIV+ and has absolutely no idea.  I would still become infected regardless of what they said.  Does this make more sense?

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2012, 02:12:49 AM »
Lol.  Of course. 
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline buginme2

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2012, 02:13:23 AM »
This thread has nothing to do with disclosure

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2012, 02:14:17 AM »
Trey that was at rev what ever.  Not you
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline AdonisSMU

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2012, 02:21:46 AM »
Lol.  Of course.
Go to your group and whine to them about how you aren't like the other monsters with HIV. Of course no one is going to agree with you because your point of view hasn't worked to stop the behavior of the HIV negative community or they could all agree with you and then you all could do a big circle jerk about how morally superior you are to someone who's struggling psychologically as a result of the HIV infection.

I can go to several message boards full of gay people and you can hear them going on and on about how they have unprotected sex with their lovers and why not because their lovers don't cheat. We all know can't base your health decisions on what someone else tells you or doesn't tell you or has your own experience taught you nothing? You don't know if your other half is positive or not no matter what he/she tells you. That's the point. Tell your HIV positive group that.

I agree with you that getting the HIV thing off the table early as possible is the way to go. There is no disagreement here. My disagreement is with how you characterize other people's situations that you don't even know about. Disclosure isn't a cut and dry issue as far as reality is concerned. The best thing one can do is to protect one's own self interests which is why I am advocating for getting the HIV status off the table early and often.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 02:31:27 AM by AdonisSMU »

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2012, 02:30:43 AM »
No shit it's not easy. I never said it was.  From the beginning I said if you are positive you should disclose to your sexual partners. What's so bad and so hard here.  Instead I am met with bitchy queens bringing up things I shared and trying to be cruel.  So going to group is whining.  Nice. 

You know some asked me the other day are you only going to date HIV positive people?  I said I don't know but so far I haven't met one that isn't messed up in the head. Me included.
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline AdonisSMU

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2012, 02:36:29 AM »
No shit it's not easy. I never said it was.  From the beginning I said if you are positive you should disclose to your sexual partners. What's so bad and so hard here.  Instead I am met with bitchy queens bringing up things I shared and trying to be cruel.  So going to group is whining.  Nice. 

You know some asked me the other day are you only going to date HIV positive people?  I said I don't know but so far I haven't met one that isn't messed up in the head. Me included.
I haven't met one person who isn't messed up in the head. Everyone has their mental problems not just HIV people.

First you say it's not easy then 2 sentences later you say what's so hard about it? Which is it?

You go trashing people for telling you that HIV is everyone's responsibility and not just the infected parties. Then you go on a tirade about people who ask questions about disclosure that they should be asking and calling them monsters for wanting to do the right thing. You are deterring people from asking the questions that people should be asking and come to these sites to get help for. You're not helping.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 02:39:14 AM by AdonisSMU »

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Disclosure blah blah blah
« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2012, 02:40:29 AM »
I said you are a monster if you knowling sleep with someone and you know your positive and you lie and say no.  If your going to qutoe me get it right
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

 


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