Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
E-newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr MySpace
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 24, 2014, 04:35:01 PM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 631754
  • Total Topics: 47828
  • Online Today: 266
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: Population profile of the USA  (Read 4652 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Matts

  • Member
  • Posts: 205
Population profile of the USA
« on: January 17, 2012, 06:58:05 PM »
Hello,

I read somewhere that the Hispanics will be the majority in the future and the "white" Caucasians of European origin will be the minority in the USA. So far the USA are the leader of the western world and Europe.

Can they fullfill this function in the future or is this no topic at the moment?
In Germany live millions of foreigners, mostly from turkey; and there are passionate discussions about immigration (pro and contra)
How is it in the States?
tivicay/kivexa

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,136
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2012, 07:09:41 PM »
Hello,

I read somewhere that the Hispanics will be the majority in the future and the "white" Caucasians of European origin will be the minority in the USA. So far the USA are the leader of the western world and Europe.

Can they fullfill this function in the future or is this no topic at the moment?
In Germany live millions of foreigners, mostly from turkey; and there are passionate discussions about immigration (pro and contra)
How is it in the States?

Please don't start a political discussion here.  No matter how well meaning you may be anything you say can and will be held against you at a later date.  There is a decidedly anti-immigrant slant to your post and that's the equivalent of murder to some.

Offline OneTampa

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,094
  • "Butterflies are free."
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2012, 07:26:04 PM »
Please don't start a political discussion here.  No matter how well meaning you may be anything you say can and will be held against you at a later date.  There is a decidedly anti-immigrant slant to your post and that's the equivalent of murder to some.

Snappy Snap!

From a cousin of "brown", "black", "yellow", "red", and "clear" Caucasians.
 ;) 8)
"He is my oldest child. The shy and retiring one over there with the Haitian headdress serving pescaíto frito."

Online GSOgymrat

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,002
  • HIV+ since 1993. INTJ
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2012, 08:11:53 PM »
Hello,

I read somewhere that the Hispanics will be the majority in the future and the "white" Caucasians of European origin will be the minority in the USA. So far the USA are the leader of the western world and Europe.

Can they fullfill this function in the future or is this no topic at the moment?
In Germany live millions of foreigners, mostly from turkey; and there are passionate discussions about immigration (pro and contra)
How is it in the States?

In my opinion, it doesn't matter what what race becomes the majority. Physical racial characteristics are bound to futher blur as people move all over the globe and have children. What is more important is culture and ideals-- who will Americans be in 100 years. Will America continue to be governed by rule of law or will we transition into a theocracy? Will we grow increasingly capitalistic, socialistic or something else. Will we consolidate with other countries? Will our borders become more or less porous? America will change and evolve, at least I hope it will. We can be better than what we are or who we have been.

Offline spacebarsux

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,350
  • Survival of the Fittest
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2012, 03:38:46 AM »

So far the USA are the leader of the western world and Europe.


I had no idea the guys in Washington called the shots over in Strasbourg ;).

How does it matter anyhow ? The Chinese are going to be running the world in the near future.  ;)

Spacebarsux (Who finds the concept of nationalism and race most insular and inwardlooking)
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,218
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2012, 04:13:58 AM »
Matts the answer to your question is yes, in the USA, immigration is a fiery topic of public debate, policy and law, and in political campaigns.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Online RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,276
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2012, 07:45:01 AM »
Matts the answer to your question is yes, in the USA, immigration is a fiery topic of public debate, policy and law, and in political campaigns.
Only when it deals with illegal immigration.

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,218
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2012, 08:06:13 AM »
Illegal immigration and legal immigration is the same topic. (In my opinion.)

The point of getting upset about illegal immigration is worries about the "profile" of the population changing and questions of jobs, services, etc. etc.  Who should get in, who shouldn't. How many... etc.

The OP is talking about Turks -- and frankly now "ex-turks" because after naturalization many are  Germans of Turkish ancestry - in Germany.   

The OP may be talking about this using "sloppy" terms or categories, but the topic is more or less comparable between countries.

There are differences German vs US post WWII immigration experience, because of the "guest worker" status European countries established, such as was also done in Switzerland.  Then came naturalizations and also options for people born in the country.

Its a bit disingenuous to single out Turks as the chief "immigrants" to Germany after the war.
http://www.migrationinformation.org/Profiles/display.cfm?ID=235

Rather, they are the chief, noticeable "non European". 

The Swiss are examining the same kinds of identity questions as the Germans and as are Americans. 

The Swiss don't seem to mind how many Italians and Portuguese became Swiss over 50 years, but they have different categories of immigrants, as defined by the cultural values, and thus value them differently - and have different stereotypes and fears about these groups. Such as Balkans and recently more Asians and Africans.  Serbs bad. "Blacks" bad.  Portuguese - done deal, no one notices, cares anymore.

Anyway its clear German, Switzerland, England, many countries indeed, are much more multicultural than some people might be comfortable with, and this is something people talk about.

Ireland risked becoming a multicultural during its miracle, but that is fading since the economy tanked.  The guest workers fled, now followed by a return to Irish out emmigration like in old times.

As economies tank, and if power is still often held, or sought, by traditional elites, the "immigration" question constantly rears its ugly face of racism, and fear of who has jobs, who has money, who needs money, who is a drain, etc etc.  And one feature is that the topic isn't about "immigration" at all sometimes, its about the color and cultures of the people who are ALREADY citizens of the country.

Sloppy way to discuss it, in other words.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 08:08:53 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline spacebarsux

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,350
  • Survival of the Fittest
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2012, 08:23:30 AM »
Illegal immigration and legal immigration is the same topic. (In my opinion.)


Wow. So there's no difference between an immigrant who worked hard to get a residence permit and pays taxes and an illegal immigrant who's essentially free riding and is a burden to the economy, in your opinion ?
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 23,880
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2012, 09:31:55 AM »
Isn't Mitt Romney an "anchor baby"? :-X
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Growler

  • Member
  • Posts: 559
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2012, 11:35:57 AM »
I prefer to paint myself a lovely shade of federation green (pubes included.....no I'm still not shaving) and that way everyone hates me, except those tree humping hippies (shudder).

GROWLER
“If loving someone is putting them in a straitjacket and kicking them down a flight of stairs, then yes, I have loved a few people.”

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,218
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2012, 04:58:25 PM »
Wow. So there's no difference between an immigrant who worked hard to get a residence permit and pays taxes and an illegal immigrant who's essentially free riding and is a burden to the economy, in your opinion ?

Those are not the same groups of people, of course.  But its all part of the same topic. The OP is talking about people who are legally in Germany but this is all framed in Germany as the "immigrant" question.

(As an aside, not sure all illegal immigrants are burdens to an economy.  If there were no benefit for both parties - illegal immigrant and host country -- there would be no reason to come in such numbers. Which is not exactly the topic the OP seems to want to discuss.)

The OP is wondering if an hispanic majority in the US will mean something for its imperial power (as defined by the OP). 

Lots of people consider themselves as the true representatives of "American" and fear the "other".  Fear the sharia law agenda by Muslim Americans.  (Totally invented agenda!)
Need to instruct black how to get jobs, not foodstamps.
blah blah blah blah.

Germans gotta suck up and realize they LET IN these immigrants and now they are German and it's a done deal.  Merkel doesn't help matters saying the multicultural "experiment" has "utterly failed" because the "turks" haven't "assimilated".  Its the same LAME ASS fears of Americans who say English only. Or Christian only, please.




“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Online RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,276
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2012, 06:40:46 PM »
Those are not the same groups of people, of course.  But its all part of the same topic. The OP is talking about people who are legally in Germany but this is all framed in Germany as the "immigrant" question.

(As an aside, not sure all illegal immigrants are burdens to an economy.  If there were no benefit for both parties - illegal immigrant and host country -- there would be no reason to come in such numbers. Which is not exactly the topic the OP seems to want to discuss.)

The OP is wondering if an hispanic majority in the US will mean something for its imperial power (as defined by the OP). 

Lots of people consider themselves as the true representatives of "American" and fear the "other".  Fear the sharia law agenda by Muslim Americans.  (Totally invented agenda!)
Need to instruct black how to get jobs, not foodstamps.
blah blah blah blah.

Germans gotta suck up and realize they LET IN these immigrants and now they are German and it's a done deal.  Merkel doesn't help matters saying the multicultural "experiment" has "utterly failed" because the "turks" haven't "assimilated".  Its the same LAME ASS fears of Americans who say English only. Or Christian only, please.
What in the world are you talking about? You said the USA, then to back track you state the OP was talking about Germany. Didn't you say your were from Sweden? Sweden has a population of what under 10 million? The US has an illegal population of around 12 million. Don't confuse legal immigrants with illegal.

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2012, 07:07:22 PM »
What in the world are you talking about? You said the USA, then to back track you state the OP was talking about Germany. Didn't you say your were from Sweden? Sweden has a population of what under 10 million? The US has an illegal population of around 12 million. Don't confuse legal immigrants with illegal.

Rod, Mecch is an American who lives in Switzerland.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Online RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,276
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2012, 07:08:57 PM »
Rod, Mecch is an American who lives in Switzerland.
Thanks Rev.

Offline spacebarsux

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,350
  • Survival of the Fittest
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2012, 01:17:14 AM »
Lots of people consider themselves as the true representatives of "American" and fear the "other".  Fear the sharia law agenda by Muslim Americans.  (Totally invented agenda!)
Need to instruct black how to get jobs, not foodstamps.
blah blah blah blah.

Germans gotta suck up and realize they LET IN these immigrants and now they are German and it's a done deal.  Merkel doesn't help matters saying the multicultural "experiment" has "utterly failed" because the "turks" haven't "assimilated".  Its the same LAME ASS fears of Americans who say English only. Or Christian only, please.

Not saying this specifically in the American context but you know the counter-argument of the former colonies would be something like this:

If they (Westerners) are so concerned about the fear of "the other" and dilution of their own culture and what not, then what were they doing 'here' ruling us for hundreds of years (long before the days of Green Cards and Permits)- when not only was a concerted effort made in 'keeping a safe distance' from 'us', the natives, but they systematically and ruthlessly attempted (and succeeded to a large extent) in erasing our indigenous cultures, languages, belief-systems etc and forcefully supplanted theirs. Emaciated 'us' of our sense of Self, basically.

And now, when 'we', people from these formerly oppressed countries, desire to immigrate to the West hoping for a better life we're made to feel unwelcome-yet again.  (Btw, I don't hold such views at all but I know such feelings are commonplace- especially among the first wave of immigrants from former colonies in Asia (at least) who'd witnessed (or parents had witnessed) imperialism first-hand at home and then faced a lot of racism in Europe, like some 4 or 5 decades ago)

This kind of jingoistic sentiment is everywhere and quite primitive, in my opinion. Stretching the same logic, humans emigrated out of Africa some gazillion years ago and have been moving in all sorts of directions ever since- and will continue to do so- so how far does one go in creating this 'us' and 'the other' divide.

We're all pretty much the same aren't we? Once you scratch the surface.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 02:04:07 AM by spacebarsux »
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 23,880
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2012, 06:56:43 PM »
Only when it deals with illegal immigration.

Guess you missed the 4th chapter in Pat Buchanan's Suicide of a Superpower: Will America Survive to 2025? called "The End of White America"...

btw, since 1985 Miss P has lived in a white-minority location and hasn't found it to be an incredibly horrific experience. That's 27 years by my count, or over half of my life -- and I grew up in a location with a 92% white population so I know both extremes. It's amusing how people get so hyped up about this issue -- and like the ones that say it's about "illegal" immigration and no dark skin. Barbara please... like you know who is here legally and who isn't. And frankly, I've met illegal immigrants who hold down three jobs to make ends meet and work 200% harder than any white American I've ever met.

The United States should consider itself fortunate that alone among industrialized countries we have an expanding birthrate, not a declining one (think Japan... so ethnocentric there mere thought of legal immigration causes mass panic attacks).
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 07:03:20 PM by Miss Philicia »
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,053
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2012, 07:44:28 PM »
I've met illegal immigrants who hold down three jobs to make ends meet and work 200% harder than any white American I've ever met.
it's not about working vs not-working, it's about paying vs not-paying taxes. Illegal immigrants working and not paying taxes don't enchance our economy but actually drain it.

The United States should consider itself fortunate that alone among industrialized countries we have an expanding birthrate, not a declining one
why do you consider this issue a 'fortunate' thing? ??? Doesn't an increasing population mean more natural resources used up and more wilderness turned into housing? Don't you think that at some point the expanding birthrate will tip-the-scales and become an 'unfortunate' issue?
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 23,880
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2012, 08:29:50 PM »
it's not about working vs not-working, it's about paying vs not-paying taxes. Illegal immigrants working and not paying taxes don't enchance our economy but actually drain it.

http://roygermano.wordpress.com/2011/02/28/do-illegal-immigrants-pay-taxes/

... and what taxes do you pay, Bivens?


why do you consider this issue a 'fortunate' thing? ??? Doesn't an increasing population mean more natural resources used up and more wilderness turned into housing? Don't you think that at some point the expanding birthrate will tip-the-scales and become an 'unfortunate' issue?

I realize you never completed your college degree, but seriously girl -- someone has to pay for the expanding group of elderly people drawing social security and Medicare. You need MORE people of working age paying taxes, not less. Haven't you read anything about the declining birthrates in Europe, Russia and Japan and what it means for supporting the disproportionate amount of older non-working citizens?

Oh, and "wilderness" only gets used up because morons insist on living in suburban developments instead of more efficient high density cities, and using public transportation -- something I know better than you do. That said, the US isn't highly populated compared to somewhere like Southeast Asia. There's plenty of open space in the United States -- proper zoning could solve density issues here, but then that would be decried as socialism by the lummox citizens of the South.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 08:36:55 PM by Miss Philicia »
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,941
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2012, 06:07:21 PM »
it's not about working vs not-working, it's about paying vs not-paying taxes. Illegal immigrants working and not paying taxes don't enchance our economy but actually drain it.


Illegals don't receive government assistance. You do.

Offline Jeff G

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 10,751
  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2012, 06:24:20 PM »
Every person who lives in the United States pays taxes every time they make a purchase . In my state you even pay taxes on food at the grocery store .

I get what little taxes I pay every year back when I file my tax returns because I earn so little . So I fall into the category of both legal and undocumented residents , I pay taxes when I purchase the things I need to live , the same way all middle to low income familys do . 

To say undocumented workers and residents don't pay taxes is simply incorrect and placing blame where it doesn't belong for the many problems we face in this country .

Offline Joe K

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,493
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2012, 08:45:00 PM »
it's not about working vs not-working, it's about paying vs not-paying taxes. Illegal immigrants working and not paying taxes don't enchance our economy but actually drain it.

You have this exactly backward.  Undocumented workers pay all sorts of taxes and cannot use virtually any benefits.  They pay for both Social Security and Medicare, among others and cannot use any of these benefits, being non-citizens.

Further, if you add up all the taxes that most people pay, you will find that lower income people generally pay a higher percentage of their earnings in taxes, no matter what form they may take.

Joe
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 08:49:09 PM by killfoile »

Offline phildinftlaudy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,959
  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2012, 09:03:03 PM »

why do you consider this issue a 'fortunate' thing? ??? Doesn't an increasing population mean more natural resources used up and more wilderness turned into housing? Don't you think that at some point the expanding birthrate will tip-the-scales and become an 'unfortunate' issue?

Actually, some very basic research reveals what is most evident:
Americans make up 5% of the world's population but consume 25% of its resources (and about 23% of the world's oil consumption is from the U.S.)

World's wealthiest 16% consume 80% of the world's resources ---

So, it is not about population control - it is about over-consumption by a limited few.

There are more than enough resources to support much more population growth - unless of course one wants to have all the marbles and not share any with anyone else.

Overpopulation arguments benefit those who already have enough, more than enough, but want more. Unfortunately, those that are usually fooled by this argument of overpopulation and the need to control population are those who don't have enough and, as long as they keep believing in this argument, will never focus on the real issue of over-consumption by an elite few.


September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 23,880
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2012, 09:29:20 PM »
At least we all now have good proof that Bivens watches Fox News even though he insists that this isn't the case.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,053
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2012, 10:18:34 PM »
will never focus on the real issue of over-consumption by an elite few.
i can surely understand your over-consumption arguement; but to suggest that 5 billion people (a hypothetical over-population situation in America) wouldn't use up all the resources is silly. Somewhere there will be an actual tipping point. The longer we put that off, the longer we have the resources of the Earth to keep us alive.

i've read too many sci-fi stories of a dystopian future to not believe that the longer we can protect, and horde, the natural resources of the Earth, the longer mankind will continue to exist.


oh, and to those others, I know quite a few people, who although they may be paying sales taxes, do not pay any income/ss taxes. They are and have been paid under the table for numerous years, as they are here illegally and have no SS number or green card on which to report their wages. Quite a bit of their money flows right out of this country and into the coffers of their homeland.

I only watch Fox occassionally for a few minutes to hear what the "enemy" is espousing. I am an avid MSNBC watcher - nearly 6 hrs a day, every day.  ;)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline phildinftlaudy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,959
  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2012, 10:22:56 PM »
i can surely understand your over-consumption arguement; but to suggest that 5 billion people (a hypothetical over-population situation in America) wouldn't use up all the resources is silly. Somewhere there will be an actual tipping point. The longer we put that off, the longer we have the resources of the Earth to keep us alive.

i've read too many sci-fi stories of a dystopian future to not believe that the longer we can protect, and horde, the natural resources of the Earth, the longer mankind will continue to exist.




So, let me get this straight.... you are basing your statements, beliefs, and opinion on "hypotheticals" and on "sci-fi" stories?   Well, alrighty then....

So much for facts and reality.
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 23,880
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2012, 10:23:36 PM »
A little over 100 years ago the doomsayers were making dire warnings that Manhattan would not be habitable at some point because there would be too many horses on the streets... ::)

So, let me get this straight.... you are basing your statements, beliefs, and opinion on "hypotheticals" and on "sci-fi" stories?   Well, alrighty then....

So much for facts and reality.

*giggle*
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2012, 10:33:46 PM »
i can surely understand your over-consumption arguement; but to suggest that 5 billion people (a hypothetical over-population situation in America) wouldn't use up all the resources is silly. Somewhere there will be an actual tipping point. The longer we put that off, the longer we have the resources of the Earth to keep us alive.

i've read too many sci-fi stories of a dystopian future to not believe that the longer we can protect, and horde, the natural resources of the Earth, the longer mankind will continue to exist.


I'm sorry, Michael... But this has got to be one of the dumbest things I have read in quite a while.  I can't believe you used this to support your anti-immigrant position. 
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Jeff G

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 10,751
  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2012, 10:44:56 PM »

oh, and to those others, I know quite a few people, who although they may be paying sales taxes, do not pay any income/ss taxes. They are and have been paid under the table for numerous years, as they are here illegally and have no SS number or green card on which to report their wages. Quite a bit of their money flows right out of this country and into the coffers of their homeland.


I just cant understand your stance on this issue especially when you base evidence on anecdotal tales and misinformation . Its a fact that all of these people pay consumption taxes and most are taxed at work and get little or no public services .

When I see a man or woman who is working their ass off to feed a family by the only means possible I feel nothing but admiration for them . To say they are a drain on society or the economy is just plain factually wrong as well as heartless to say the least , especially on a forum where some people are forced onto assistance because of circumstance . I'm not attacking you , I'm just wondering how a man in your circumstance can judge another man for theirs , where is the compassion .

Offline phildinftlaudy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,959
  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2012, 10:52:18 PM »
Some FACTS (oh, and warning - at the end is a "hypothetical" destroyer....  HYPOTHETICAL DESTROYER ALERT!!!)

1) Both of the world's leading authorities on food distribution (the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization [FAO] and the World Food Programme [WFP]) are very clear: there is more than enough food for everyone on the planet. The FAO neatly summarizes the problem of starvation, saying that "the world currently produces enough food for everybody, but many people do not have access to it." Food is a lot like money: just because some people have none doesn't mean that there isn't enough of it--it's just spread unevenly.

2) Thanks to continuing increases in crop yields, the world's farmers are harvesting hundreds of millions of tons more grain each year on tens of millions acres less land than they did in the 1970s and '80s. For instance, according to USDA figures, the world was producing 1.9 million metric tons of grain from 579.1 hectares of land (a hectare is 2.47 acres) in 1976. In 2004, we got 3.1 million metric tons of grain from only 517.9 hectares of land. This is quite a jump.

3) A large population does not cause poverty: Take the Congo, for instance, which is one of the poorest countries in the world, with a meager per capita GDP of only $300. The Congo's population density is only 75 people per square mile, a fairly light population density. Compare this with the Netherlands, one of the wealthiest countries in the world with per capita GDP of $39,200. The Netherlands has a population density of 1,039 people per square mile. (these numbers come from the CIA World Factbook.)

4) According to demographers Joyce Burnette and Joel Mokyr, as humanity's numbers have grown, our average standard of living has grown as well. These scientists wrote a paper entitled “The Standard of Living Through the Ages,” found in the book The State of Humanity (you can get the book from Amazon here). In it, they point out that every single statistic that we have on this subject points to one simple truth: that as population has grown over time, the average person has become better off.

They measured this in almost every way imaginable. Burnette and Mokyr have graphs showing rising per capita income. They have graphs showing average life expectancy, average height, caloric consumption, sugar consumption, cotton consumption, even beer consumption! Every single one of these averages has been steadily increasing over time as the population has grown.

and because we LOVE Texas....
There's NO WAY everyone on Earth could fit in Texas... think again - This one will destroy the hypothetical about a population of 5 billion in the U.S.:

5) According to the U.N. Population Database, the world's population in 2010 will be 6,908,688,000. The landmass of Texas is 268,820 sq mi (7,494,271,488,000 sq ft).

So, divide 7,494,271,488,000 sq ft by 6,908,688,000 people, and you get 1084.76 sq ft/person. That's approximately a 33' x 33' plot of land for every person on the planet, enough space for a town house.  In Texas!!!  Imagine if we do the same for the other 50 states...

Reality trumps sci-fi and fantasy every time....
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2012, 10:58:02 PM »
Meh!  Facts.  Please, gurl. 
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 23,880
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2012, 11:02:21 PM »
++

(also for post count purposes)
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline phildinftlaudy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,959
  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2012, 11:03:29 PM »
Meh!  Facts.  Please, gurl.

Well, it was either that or put a link up to a Star Wars Return of the Jedi   ;D
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 23,880
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2012, 11:09:59 PM »
I'm sensing some cabal activity at the moment.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline phildinftlaudy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,959
  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2012, 11:12:40 PM »
I'm sensing some cabal activity at the moment.

Well, if there are 4 billion cabal members logged on at the same time that would cause a severe tilt and the forums site might crash - of course, that is just a hypothetical.

Now excuse me while I finish watching Space Balls...
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2012, 11:20:14 PM »
I'm sensing some cabal activity at the moment.

Indeed, I read somehwere that El Cabal (their name is Anglo-speaking-challenged as the head of the organization is some illegal immy from Bolivia) is to blame for many of the social and economic issues affecting our beloved Amerika nowadays.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 23,880
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2012, 11:30:32 PM »
because humans are always looking to hurt people when they are happy with envy that they are not, the speaker of spencer reed, he has every qien going to talk as we say in Mexico, as he goes laferia, nobody can say it did not live together with them in their house and slept with them 24 hrs a day to spencer reed stop is sderecho happy to do it and you really love your man as we care for every human being full satisfaction and spencer reed somo what is happening and humans and as such we ask who is perfect flaws, besides the other gentleman is not a small child I did not know what it does, then do not do victim to another duty which has also had their way of life because every action is a reaction stop living in the past now is the present lords.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline phildinftlaudy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,959
  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2012, 11:35:11 PM »
because humans are always looking to hurt people when they are happy with envy that they are not, the speaker of spencer reed, he has every qien going to talk as we say in Mexico, as he goes laferia, nobody can say it did not live together with them in their house and slept with them 24 hrs a day to spencer reed stop is sderecho happy to do it and you really love your man as we care for every human being full satisfaction and spencer reed somo what is happening and humans and as such we ask who is perfect flaws, besides the other gentleman is not a small child I did not know what it does, then do not do victim to another duty which has also had their way of life because every action is a reaction stop living in the past now is the present lords.
and for my Spanish friends:

porque los seres humanos siempre buscan hacer daño a las personas cuando están felices con la envidia que no lo son, el representante de Spencer Reed, tiene todo el qien va a hablar, como decimos en México, a medida que avanza laferia, nadie puede decir que no viven juntamente con ellos en su casa y dormía con ellos 24 horas al día para dejar de Spencer Reed es sderecho feliz de hacerlo y que realmente ama a su hombre como el cuidado de cada ser humano la plena satisfacción y Spencer Reed somo lo que está sucediendo y los seres humanos y como como pedimos que los defectos perfecta, además de otro caballero no es un niño pequeño que no sabía lo que lo hace, entonces no lo hacen víctima a otro deber que también ha tenido su forma de vida porque cada acción es un ser vivo detener la reacción en el pasado, ahora es a los señores presentes.

and for my friends from the Middle East:
بصدد الحديث كما نقول في المكسيك ، كما يذهب laferia، لا أحد يستطيع القول انه لم يعش معهم في منزلهم وينام معها 24 ساعة في اليوم لوقف سبنسر ريد هو sderecho سعيد للقيام بذلك، وكنت حقا الحب الخاص بك رجلا ونحن الرعاية لكل إنسان الرضا الكامل وسبنسر سومو القصب ما يحدث والبشر وكما نسأل هذه العيوب الكمال الذي هو، الى جانب الرجل الآخر ليس طفلا صغيرا لم أكن أعرف ماذا يفعل، ثم لا تفعل ضحية إلى أخرى واجب التي زارها أيضا طريقتهم في الحياة لأن كل عمل هو وقف رد الفعل في المعيشة الماضي هو الآن في مجلس اللوردات الحالي.


 ;D

September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2012, 11:41:32 PM »
Your Spanish and Arabic are quite improved, Fillippa.  Perhaps they should consider having an Arabic version of "Am I Infected?". You could answer every question.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline phildinftlaudy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,959
  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2012, 11:43:53 PM »
Your Spanish and Arabic are quite improved, Fillippa.  Perhaps they should consider having an Arabic version of "Am I Infected?". You could answer every question.

My first response to a post on Arabic Am I would be:

لا لم تحصل على المصابين من وضع شفتيك على قضيبه


September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline phildinftlaudy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,959
  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2012, 11:45:10 PM »
My first response to a post on Arabic Am I would be:

لا لم تحصل على المصابين من وضع شفتيك على قضيبه

English translation:

No you did not get infected from putting your lips on his penis
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2012, 11:50:41 PM »
Here's a question for you:

هل من الممكن للقبض على الايدز عن طريق ممارسة الجنس دون وقاية مع المهاجرين غير الشرعيين الذين لا يدفعون الضرائب؟

(is it possible to catch teh AIDS from having bareback sex with an illegal immigrant who doesn't pay taxes?)
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline jkinatl2

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2012, 11:56:07 PM »

i've read too many sci-fi stories of a dystopian future to not believe that the longer we can protect, and horde, the natural resources of the Earth, the longer mankind will continue to exist.


oh, and to those others, I know quite a few people, who although they may be paying sales taxes, do not pay any income/ss taxes. They are and have been paid under the table for numerous years

To these two points:

Your first point regarding resources and population can effortlessly be used to deny people with chronic illnesses like HIV the right to treatment/bear children.

To your second point, are you as upset at the people with HIV and AIDS - some of them in this very thread - who work "under the table" to avoid getting cut off from benefits like medication and treatment?

After all, it seems to be the same situation.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,136
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2012, 12:26:35 AM »
*facepalm*

Offline Joe K

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,493
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2012, 12:32:55 AM »
I just cant understand your stance on this issue especially when you base evidence on anecdotal tales and misinformation . Its a fact that all of these people pay consumption taxes and most are taxed at work and get little or no public services .

When I see a man or woman who is working their ass off to feed a family by the only means possible I feel nothing but admiration for them . To say they are a drain on society or the economy is just plain factually wrong as well as heartless to say the least , especially on a forum where some people are forced onto assistance because of circumstance . I'm not attacking you , I'm just wondering how a man in your circumstance can judge another man for theirs , where is the compassion .

It's called the "I got mine and fuck you" syndrome.

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #45 on: January 25, 2012, 12:34:58 AM »
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,136
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2012, 12:42:54 AM »
This thread needs some "My Little Pony: Friendship is magic"


Offline spacebarsux

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,350
  • Survival of the Fittest
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2012, 12:49:10 AM »
Wow. So there's no difference between an immigrant who worked hard to get a residence permit and pays taxes and an illegal immigrant who's essentially free riding and is a burden to the economy, in your opinion ?

I retract what I wrote earlier. It appears that my comment was misplaced (in the American context) since all immigrants contribute to the US treasury in some manner- even if not through direct income taxes.

@Leatherman- Your 5 billion population figure for the US, though hypothetical and projecting into the future, comes across as laden with (baseless and unwarranted) fears and/or prejudices. The current world population is roughly 7 billion.

China and India, the two most populous countries, hold a collective population of under 3 billion at present. The estimated population figure for the aforementioned countries will still be less than 3 billion in 2025 (according to Wiki that is). The estimated population of the US in 2025 is 352 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,134
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #48 on: January 25, 2012, 07:00:23 AM »
Back in the late '70s, early 80s, my ex husband was a - shock horror - illegal alien. A guy down in Key West hooked him up with the social security number of a deceased person so he could work and pay taxes and SS.

He worked for quite a while in Miami for a building firm as a labourer. He told me that around 80-90% of the crew were illegal but had social security numbers and were paying into the system. One time the building site they were on was raided by immigration and he wasn't taken in for interrogation - because of his fair skin and English accent. They only took the Hispanic workers away. ::) The majority of them were back to work the next day because of they were found to be paying taxes.

After we met in Ohio and moved to Manhattan, he hooked up with a green card carrying Brit and they started a building firm together, with my ex still paying taxes etc with his "borrowed" SS number. We married in Manhattan but he didn't get his green card and his own SS number for another three and a half years. His first application was turned down, but the appeal went through while I was expecting our daughter. I guess the pregnancy convinced them that it was a real marriage.

So anyway, yeah, lots of illegals are actually paying taxes and SS, but they cannot get benefits. I know this first-hand.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Growler

  • Member
  • Posts: 559
Re: Population profile of the USA
« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2012, 07:01:15 AM »
Today's special thought for the day.......

Did you know that God even loves immigrants!
As long as they are considerate enough to stay where they belong.


GROWLER (Who being white, male and living in a first world country is automatically one of God's chosen ones)






“If loving someone is putting them in a straitjacket and kicking them down a flight of stairs, then yes, I have loved a few people.”

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.