Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
E-newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr MySpace
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
August 22, 2014, 04:56:21 AM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 635580
  • Total Topics: 48218
  • Online Today: 214
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online
Users: 2
Guests: 181
Total: 183

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: Not taking HIV meds and making a hard decision to do so....anyone wants to share  (Read 11564 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline hawaiianbl@yahoo.com

  • member
  • Posts: 2
I just decided not take my HIV meds can anyone share some insight?

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,129
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
eventually the HIV will win and sadly you'll die. :'(
That's the blunt truth of what happens with untreated HIV.

Also if you've been on meds, and just up and quit them, you're running the risk of resistance developing (the virus learning to deal with the meds when the level of meds dropped low enough) so that you might not be able to go back to your current meds. Do this enough times, and there'll be no meds to help you in the future.

Perhaps you might want to explain WHY you stopped your meds? If your reason was side effects, you'd be much better off talking to your doctor and trying a different regimen since there are so many options available nowadays. IMHO, Just giving up without trying to do anything proactive first would be awfully lazy and cowardly since at one time you already made the decision to go onto meds and live.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline jkinatl2

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Welcome to the forums!

It would be great to know more about you than just that piece of information.

Have you been on meds before? Is it a side-effects issue? A cost issue?

How long have you been positive?

You've actually seen, up close, AIDS and it's implications, yes?

Please help give a little perspective.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline hawaiianbl@yahoo.com

  • member
  • Posts: 2
i have been positive since 1996 side affects had put me in the hospital for 3months.

Offline jkinatl2

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
I am very sorry you have had bad experiences with side effects. Many of us who have been positive for a long time have seen many new drugs emerge, and suffered from side effects that have been physically and spiritually debilitating.

I have been positive since 1993, and have been on just about everything from AZT monotherapy to First Generation PIs and the like.

I'm now on Truvada, Prezista, Norvir and Isentress - and can fo the first time say that I have had few if any real side effects with this combo. And please believe me, I've become VERY leery of meds thanks to my history.

If/when I miss a dose, it's purely on me, not because of any side effects that cause.

Have you discussed combinations with your doctor? Even a lot of "older" drugs (like Viracept) have been reformulated to avoid/prevent the dreadful side effects associated with the original versions.

I just hate to think there's absolutely nothing you can take that won't be more dreadful than the slow decline of AIDS. I say this because I've been there - and dragged my family and friends there - because I stopped trying, stopped looking, stopped hoping.

You certainly have enough experience with the pandemic to make an informed decision. I just hope it's that, an informed one.

Much love
Jonathan
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline jkinatl2

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
PS: You might want to ask a moderator to help you choose a screen name that isn't your real mailing address, if that's indeed what I am seeing. These forums are searchable, and I cringe at the vulnerability to unwanted intrusions.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Theyer

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,494
  • Current ambition. Walk the Dog .
Welcome.

If you have made this decision then hopefully you have done it with your Doctors so good and appropriate end off life care will be made available to you.

Will such scant, though powerfull information to go on that is the only usefull thing I can think off.

I have experience off prolonged illness with aggressive medical intervention , in certain circumstances I believe its a valid decision .

 Dia. 1996 and 3 months hospitalization due to side effects  is not enough information for me to enter into a dialogue with you.If you gives us all more info then you will receive further input from us.
Take care
theyer
mhtv
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Offline weasel

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,666
I just decided not take my HIV meds can anyone share some insight?

    Are you DEPRESSED ?   WTF !

  I have had HIV  for over half my life !   I will be 58 next August .

   I feel like CRAP  most days , But the way I see it  Feeling like crap is LIVING ! 

   Why would you choose to die when so many of us are fighting for our lives .   

 Dead is Dead  ....................

   I really think you need to SPELL  OUT WHAT IS UP !   

  I am sure Most of us will  listen and give advice !   At that point you MAY decide  maybe life is worth living !

   Your post is just short of saying   " I am going to KILL myself  , Just thought you should know !  "

   REALLY ?   

   When I wake up I thank GOD for another day !   Maybe it will be crappy maybe it will be  a normal day  :)

    More often than not I feel like a corpse !  But i would rather be a Warm Corpse than the other  :-[

    Please POST more info !   

 Feel free to message me , I will offer whatever I can in mental support , For  HIV issues .

  Does your I.D. Doctor know you are  about to do this !!!!!!!

                                                       wishing you the best ,
                                                                                 Weasel

 P.S.   Life can be a awful but I will make the best of it  :-*
" Live and let Live "

Offline denb45

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,051
  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
I've been on HIV/AIDS meds for almost 25yrs. when they 1st came out AZT was the 1st of the meds, and I've had just about every side-effect the you can shake-a-stick-at  ::)

 I still take my meds almost 25yrs later, cuz I know they keep me alive, and being alive is way better than being DEAD..... :)

I've seen 1st hand what happens when people don't take
these meds to keep them healthy & alive  :'(

 I've seen it. and I've witnessed it, and I can tell you, that it's  really a horrible way to go... :(

I hope that you can somehow comes to terms about this, and get some help with all of the side-effects

it aint really all that bad, it hasn't been easy for me all these yrs. and I feel & look like crap, but, I'd rather be alive than to be DEAD   :)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Theyer

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,494
  • Current ambition. Walk the Dog .
I've been on HIV/AIDS meds for almost 25yrs. when they 1st came out AZT was the 1st of the meds, and I've had just about every side-effect the you can shake-a-stick-at  ::)

 I still take my meds almost 25yrs later, cuz I know they keep me alive, and being alive is way better than being DEAD..... :)

I've seen 1st hand what happens when people don't take
these meds to keep them healthy & alive  :'(

 I've seen it. and I've witnessed it, and I can tell you, that it's  really a horrible way to go... :(

I hope that you can somehow comes to terms about this, and get some help with all of the side-effects

it aint really all that bad, it hasn't been easy for me all these yrs. and I feel & look like crap, but, I'd rather be alive than to be DEAD   :)

Ditto
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Offline wolfter

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,460
You've already rec'd some great words of support and I'll add a few more.  It sounds like there are underlying issues that need addressed.  I made this same idiotic decision a while back because of underlying depression that I had never had an issue with before.  Life's circumstance caused it for me.  Looking back, I obviously didn't think it through very clearly.

The thought of being dead doesn't bother me, but the thought of dying from AIDS terrifies me.  I looked into the dying eyes of too many loved ones and saw the agonizing pain they endured.

Welcome to the forums and continue to reach out.  There's great support in numbers, and we'll assist in any way we can.

Take care and best wishes.
Wolfie
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline harleymc

  • Member
  • Posts: 201
Hi I'm somewhat in the same mindspace as wolfter that AIDS is not a good way to go.
I stopped my medications for a long time, when other non-HIV related issues were making my quality of life pretty miserable. Death per se doesn't scare me. After i saw the impact of my decisions on family and loved ones (even for the most supportive people multiple KS lesions trigger strong emotional responses) I returned to the doctor's fold again. My doctor gently reminded me that AIDS is a really sh!tty way to die.
I've surrounded myself with a bit more support this time around, some counselling, a buddy from a volunteer organisation and have joined a poz community organisation. The health and social issues that drove me away from fighting HIV have not entirely resolved but with support they seem a lot less devastating.
Whatever it is that's driving you away from the will to live, please get some support to address those root issues.
My best wishes to you

Offline hudstar

  • Member
  • Posts: 130
  • 2010
i took a year off from my pills just to have a break from pill popping. I was monitored and my viral load did creep up so for myself i wanted to see how far I could push living without thought or evidence of my HIV status - it stayed with me :)  I have resistence to most HAART drugs and found that out during a DNA trial  - I was the 65th person for a 64 person only trial so go figure the odds for that fluke. HIV was and still is a progressive condition that if left untreated will only get worse. You need to take meds to stay alive. I compliment my drugs with natural remedies that do not alter how my medication works. Women's 50+ Swisse multi-vitamins give you a boost and of course fish oil and assorted husks. Maybe speak to your doctor about complimentary therapies to combine with your HIV meds.
diagnosed 1988
POZ personals - hudster

Offline Andrea

  • Member
  • Posts: 4
  • Looking to befriend other guys in the U.K
It is distressing to hear of your thoughts and I can understand where you are coming from as I have been there and continue to do so with very dark thoughts in my mind and just wanting it to end. It is paralyzing and isolating from everyone and everything around you and it is damn lonely.
I fight with what you describe at black moments in time but as the other guys have said you or I would die very quickly and from some awful condition brought on by AIDS. I have to think of my partner and it stops me but you may not have this and this is where friends come into it - and it is very important you have true, real and understanding friends as you will find here.
Please, write some more as I very much want to hear your thoughts and decisions, we all do as we are concerned and can understand as you can count on us for as much support, understanding and help as you want. So don't stop anything just yet OK, talk to us at least a bit more and we can hold your hand along this rocky road as you are not alone in any decision you make now.
Big hugs to you pal and hope you read this and respond because I want you to xxx
~ Andrea
30 years +
CD4: 1007
VL: Undetectable
LFT: Normal.

Offline 69freespirit69

  • Member
  • Posts: 3
I did the same thing 6 months ago, seems my depression and isolation got the best of me. However I am back on my meds, and trying to live my life with some new skills from MBCT, Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy. Changing the thoughts that run through my head as best I can, trying to find times of not thinking at all. Its not an easy life, this HIV and all that comes with it, I myself have moved back to where I grew up , only to be more isolated and with hardly a support system , in all of the 25 years i have been dealing with this . Friends are difficult to make or keep so it seems up here in New England. Hope is all we have that things will get better, whatever that means, best regards. michael

Offline Theyer

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,494
  • Current ambition. Walk the Dog .
Hello 69, it would be good to hear where you are with life at the moment , have you made any changes?

I hope day to day life is better for you, either way let us know.

Best wishes to you

michael
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Offline flaconvert

  • Member
  • Posts: 16
Fact is if you don't take meds you will get sick and die. Might be sooner. Might be later.

i hope you can find the strength and support to resume your medications. i encourage you to get involved in life today.  i hope you will find happiness and peace. And  i respect your decision, whatever it may be. Just remember: the longer you are off meds the more difficult it will be to regain your health.

i too have stopped taking my meds almost two years ago. Yes i am depressed. Poz since Jan 89. Became a nurse to help others with AIDS. i lived in San Francisco during 1990's.  Have seen lots of death. Too much. Recently, i thought i could go to my local ASO and get help but something inside of me will not let me go. i am tired, i have fought long and hard and now want to sleep. i do not advocate this decision for anyone. But it is my right to live my life in the way i see fit and i fully understand the consequences.

i am glad others are fighting for every day of life. Hopefully they will be here for the Cure.  Please remember your  life is precious. Do not make your decision lightly because your actions will have lasting implications for everyone around you.

You will be in my thoughts today and i wish you well.   


Offline deibster

  • Member
  • Posts: 153
Just ONE word of advice. A healthy friend had a Physician's Assistant take him off of all his meds. He got a herpes infection in his eye. SO, if you are on a herpes med, you might want to stay on this one med. I don't think an MD would have made this mistake. Hugs, deiby
Poz since Dec 1992. Meds since 1995. Disability since 2005.

Prezista/Norvir, Epzicom, Cytomel, Prevacid, pravastatin, Fenofibrate, Remeron, Zoloft, Concerta, doxazosin, Allegra180, Nasocort, Centrum, Flax Oil, Fish Oil

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,129
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
i too have stopped taking my meds almost two years ago.
...
Please remember your  life is precious. Do not make your decision lightly because your actions will have lasting implications for everyone around you.

You will be in my thoughts today and i wish you well.
Physican heal thyself  :-* please take your own advice.

have you ever gotten sick, you know, been all aidsy?? If you haven't yet, then please take your own advice and get help to get back on the meds.

I was just talking today to a friend I haven't seen in yrs, talking about the 3 times a doctor told me to call my family to come to my bedside because I was more than likely going to die. Boy howdy, do I remember how utterly shitty and horrible I felt that sick and that close to death.

That's what happens at an AIDS-death. While taking meds, while doesn't solve every problem by a long shot, it sure prevents being in that kind of predicament. you should do everything you can to avoid that. See a therapist, see a doctor, see an ASO, whatever it takes.  :-*

I'll be keeping you in my thoughts.  ;)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline amaphot

  • Member
  • Posts: 4
I don't normally weigh in on topics and I can only reflect based on my personal experience.  First off, I have been HIV+ since 1988 and like many others who have posted, I have seen the evolution of treatment and progress in the fight against HIV and how it continues to shape our lives
.
What sometimes complicates the issue are losses of those closest to you.  The people closest to me in the early years are sadly no longer with me due to not being able to survive long enough to benefit from the advances in medication.  That HIV is now considered a chronic but manageable illness is something that also shapes the "survivor" attitude.

One of the issues that sometimes plagues me is "survivor's guilt".  As we move into the present and future of longivitity, I'm reminded that a large part of my emotional life was wiped out.  Sometimes, wanting to continue to take meds may also have to do with quality of life from the emotional rather than the physical aspect.  If I had to hazard a guess about why someone might choose to stop medications, I would question that they might feel emotionally empty and this is complicating matters.

Everything I have read in this topic resonates and I only hope that the individuals in question can find some support here as they figure things out. 

Let's hope the outcome is favorable.

Offline hudstar

  • Member
  • Posts: 130
  • 2010
That HIV is now considered a chronic but manageable illness is something that also shapes the "survivor" attitude.

One of the issues that sometimes plagues me is "survivor's guilt".  As we move into the present and future of longivitity, I'm reminded that a large part of my emotional life was wiped out.  Sometimes, wanting to continue to take meds may also have to do with quality of life from the emotional rather than the physical aspect.  If I had to hazard a guess about why someone might choose to stop medications, I would question that they might feel emotionally empty and this is complicating matters.

Everything I have read in this topic resonates and I only hope that the individuals in question can find some support here as they figure things out. 

Let's hope the outcome is favorable.
Its funny you mention survivors guilt. I have recently joined my first LTS group and this very issue came up. I always had an issue with that phrase, I preferred to use survivors anger as it was anger that drove me to move ahead. The first anger was being told I was going to die so young then the anger of living longer in a limbo realit because we were never actually told officially things were going to change for us- we kind of worked that out for ourselves when HAART came in to being. It was the long state of living in hope without any official recognition that we existed in until we reached this stage today - the stage that comes after hope and that is life. Many of us were ill prepared for that. This reality may be too confronting for some - I know I stopped my meds not because I wanted to end it all but because i wanted to feel HIV free for a while. I think we have all pondered the power we have over ourselves when we decide to take or not to take pills. I really think to stop taking pills this far down the line is a cry for help and if you do question not taking pills please speak to somebody. We are making our own history here and everyone of us is incredibly important
diagnosed 1988
POZ personals - hudster

Offline dominicjoel

  • member
  • Posts: 2
Hey

I've been to the same place. 

I'm staring at a new box of meds right now which I've just collected - I threw the last lot away - and deciding whether to start taking them again, or not: Truvada and  Viramune.  Been positive for about 12 years or so - does that make me an LTS?! - and on meds for 4. What a crappy four years they've been.    Some people on here talk about life. Any kind of life. But I have to ask: what about quality of life?

Have to say, haven't had really bad physical side-effects, just some dramatic weight loss, but since I've started meds I've endured the mother and father of all depressions.  I've tried the drugs for that, the counselling, the exercise etc., and it doesn't work.  It just doesn't.  As I sit and write this, I exist in a kind of fog, almost completely disconnected from the world. I get up, go to work, do stuff, but none of it seems to register. 20/30 more years of this? No way! 

Is it the drugs, or just the fact that I'm gonna have to spend the rest of my life on drugs?  I don't know, but what I do know is that whatever it is, it can't go on indefinitely like this.  Stopping meds in a moment of what seemed like clarity looked like a way out, but I guess I'm a big coward!

So, I'm looking at them wondering what to do.... 

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Hi Dominic, welcome to the forums.


 Been positive for about 12 years or so - does that make me an LTS?!


For the purpose of this particular sub-forum, no, you're not an LTS. From this section's Welcome Thread:



This forum is a safe place for long-term survivors (LTS), defined as people living with HIV who tested positive for the virus before the advent of highly active antiretroviral therapy (HAART) in 1996.


There's more written in the LTS Forum Welcome Thread, so please have a look.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Ann

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline joyvibe

  • member
  • Posts: 2
I just wrote a thoughtful and thorough response to hawaiianbl re: quitting meds. I hit a key while in "preview" mode and lost it! Grrrr. Bottom line: I delayed starting meds, quit twice 2 years into the regimen, and I will never quit my meds again. I know now, contrary to what I used to believe 21 years ago, I cannot live without the meds. Talk to your doc first.

Offline joyvibe

  • member
  • Posts: 2
Ah, I found it on a previous tab! Thx.
I became hiv+ in 1991. I was told I had 4-5 years to live, and that only if I started taking AZT NOW. I refused AZT (it scared the crap out of me) and decided to "live without fear." Whew! That helped a lot.  I researched every alternative treatment on the planet--ardently searching for 3 years. I've tried many wacko things. I refused the "new medications" when they emerged in '96 I think it was because I believed that I could "overcome" AIDS and not "kill myself" with the meds. In '98 PCP got me and my body craved the meds--I wanted them. 2000: I quit meds, stayed very well with a CD4 counts 200-300. 2002: PCP or PJP or whatever it is now--got me again and I came very close to death. Meds for me! I was convinced I could not live without the medications. 2006: bad stomach, diarrhea, feeling horrible--me in my brave stupidity quit the meds just for 30 days to "detox my body." In 30 days I had an appt. with ID doc. Labs then revealed the truth--I have "a very aggressive strain of hiv" and my CD4 count, when I quit the meds was 700; 30 days later it was 91. That taught me a lesson!! ALWAYS consult the doc first before you quit your meds, then take or leave their advice. My CD4 count has been crawling back up since that time and I'm delighted that it recently surpassed 300. Wanta quit your meds? I won't ever again....

Offline lforsyth

  • member
  • Member
  • Posts: 245
  • Instaurator Ruinae
Anonymous testing wasn't available until 1986, of course I was positive. I wasn't put on meds until after the viral load test was available in 1997. I was lucky that I responded within 6 months. Today I'm viral load undetectable and immune system normal. I don't take the full dosage, it's overkill. When I was on twice a day meds I took them only in the morning and waited for the side affects to kick in. I'm now on once a day meds and I take them every other day, Monday, Wednesday, Friday and give myself weekends off. Same results as before but I do have bad days and have to pay attention. I've had to go home to change clothes or just call it a day, but not often.

You have to judge for yourself as well as talk to your doctor. But it does depend on how much you want to live and enjoy life. That is what drives me to keep going.

Tested POZ in 1986, knew there was something wrong in 1985. 04/2010 CD4: 975 Viral Load undetectable. Prezista, Norvir, Truvada, Acyclovir, Plavix, Lisinopril, Metoprolol and a bedtime snack of Lipitor (YUM)

Offline Jeff G

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 11,226
  • How am I doing Beren ?
It may be overkill for you but its not for most people on HAART . As you pointed out , for you its a personal choice to discuss with your doctor but I have never in all my years ever had a doctor that recommended adjusting my HIV meds in this manner , in fact I have been warned not to do what you are doing . I hope it works out for you .     

Offline deibster

  • Member
  • Posts: 153
Hello,
We should remember one thing. All adults in the USA are given the same dose of whichever medication they are taking - Epivir is one tablet/day, Viread one/day, Isentriss two per day.

In parts of Europe, the doc weighs you and prescribes the number of pills depending on your weight and on your liver & kidney function tests. A large person would be put on Epivir or Viread every day, but a small person might very well be put on it every other day.

A medium sized person's dose might depend on how well their liver or kidneys are doing. If these organs are fine, they may be on a pill everyday, but if the organs are having problems, they may be put on a dose every other day. Some docs in the USA are allowing patients to decrease their medications, similar to these guidelines used overseas.
Poz since Dec 1992. Meds since 1995. Disability since 2005.

Prezista/Norvir, Epzicom, Cytomel, Prevacid, pravastatin, Fenofibrate, Remeron, Zoloft, Concerta, doxazosin, Allegra180, Nasocort, Centrum, Flax Oil, Fish Oil

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.