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Author Topic: why should I start a therapy at all ??? I feel healthy!... existential questions  (Read 2752 times)

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Offline nomatterhow

  • Member
  • Posts: 48
I know this might sound a bit strange or stupid and I am not going to wait with my therapy, I start a therapy next week but I want to have some explanations ... but why really ? I mean I am poz since november and have strange resistance profile and a CD4 of 140-to-220 ... I know its low . but I have no symptoms, I can not be poz since a very long time cuz my last neg test was in 2010 ... I just notice all or most of  the complaints here about sickness comes from meds and not HIV !!! I have no diarrhea, no PN, no respiratory problems, no rash, no farting etc ... why should I start meds while I feel healthy and have all those side effects ???

 I know you might say that my immune system is pretty fucked up , but shouldnt I wait a bit longer till I get a bit more of symptoms to start a therapy ? the existential question is : why take meds and suffer when you know that with HIV you might live normally for a few more years before you start a therapy and have less side effects in a few years when better meds come out?

I add again that I am starting a therapy next week!


« Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 06:24:35 AM by nomatterhow »

Offline ad2san

  • Member
  • Posts: 187
Hi there,

Well you are probably of a generation that did not see people dying of AIDS, behind the HIV status there is a very ugly disease believe me. You can avoid iwith the therapy.
Forget the PN, wasting and farting stuff, the majority of people under therapy have no side effect. And if it happens there is nowadays different therapeutic options that may free you those.

Off course it is up to you. After seeing a bunch of people dying I have chosen not to die of AIDS.

Cheers
Feb   2009 CD4 358 VL 2000 16%
May  2009 CD4 305 VL 3069  14% <---- Started TVD+ATZ/r
Jul  2009 CD4 512 VL <50   18%
Jul 2010 CD4 418 VL <50 24%                     
Switched to Kivexa (Epzicom) + Norvir + Reyataz (due to sleep problem)
Aug 2010 CD4 606 VL <50 25%
Jul 2011 CD4 494 UD 23%
Switched to Kivexa (Epzicom) + Viramune XR (due to kidney problems)
January 2012 CD4 564 UD 31%
October 2012 CD4 684 UD 29%
January 2013 CD4 594 UD 26%
Switched to Kivexa (Epzicom) + Isentress due to BIG increase GammaGT
Feb 2013 CD4 699 UD 28%
May 2013 CD4 385 UD 28%
July 2013 CD4 CD4 636 UD 25%
Oct 2013 CD4 588 UD 39%
Aug 2014 CD4 639 UD 25%

Offline bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,374
  • You gotta enjoy life......
So, you'd rather wait for the "side effects" of the virus vs. potential side effects from the meds?  So, you'd rather suffer from PCP vs. farting?  Really??
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline spacebarsux

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,350
  • Survival of the Fittest
Sorry to be blunt but the fact remains that If your CD4 counts are below 200 technically you already have AIDS. Even though you may 'feel' fine your immune system is getting totally raped..and this rate will not be able to fend off the virus without medication for too long. Guidelines all over the world recommend starting therapy when CD4 is around 350, at the latest- you're already way past that threshold. But the good news is that  As long as you start with ARVs and you're adherent to your meds, you'll be fine.             Modern drugs are very tolerable with far fewer side effects than the older ones- and I'm sure many members will lend credence to me saying that.      Best.
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline nomatterhow

  • Member
  • Posts: 48
I know, thats why I am starting a therapy ... I have never seen anyone dying of Aids but some of people I admire a lot in arts/literature have died of Aids...

my unconscious resistance might be related to the fact that I found about it like 6 weeks ago , its just a huge change to start a therapy on something which is only on papers up to now for me ... Hope you understand what I mean, its not that I dont want to be healthy

Cheers
« Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 07:51:32 AM by nomatterhow »

Offline spacebarsux

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,350
  • Survival of the Fittest
Well, for what it's worth  I can understand your feelings. Dealing with your diagnosis and starting with treatment all at once can get overwhelming and cause a lot of anxiety and stress. That said, once you start therapy and your CD4 starts rising- you'll be ok. And its about time you do.  All the best.
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline ad2san

  • Member
  • Posts: 187
Hi there. I understand. Don't overthink about it. Starting is the easiest part, especially after you notice that "it was not that bad" after all  8)

and it will keep you healthy, you'll go on enjoying life.

Cheers
Feb   2009 CD4 358 VL 2000 16%
May  2009 CD4 305 VL 3069  14% <---- Started TVD+ATZ/r
Jul  2009 CD4 512 VL <50   18%
Jul 2010 CD4 418 VL <50 24%                     
Switched to Kivexa (Epzicom) + Norvir + Reyataz (due to sleep problem)
Aug 2010 CD4 606 VL <50 25%
Jul 2011 CD4 494 UD 23%
Switched to Kivexa (Epzicom) + Viramune XR (due to kidney problems)
January 2012 CD4 564 UD 31%
October 2012 CD4 684 UD 29%
January 2013 CD4 594 UD 26%
Switched to Kivexa (Epzicom) + Isentress due to BIG increase GammaGT
Feb 2013 CD4 699 UD 28%
May 2013 CD4 385 UD 28%
July 2013 CD4 CD4 636 UD 25%
Oct 2013 CD4 588 UD 39%
Aug 2014 CD4 639 UD 25%

Offline leatherman

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  • Posts: 6,154
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
my unconscious resistance might be related to the fact that I found about it like 6 weeks ago , its just a huge change to start a therapy on something which is only on papers up to now for me
Consider yourself unbelievably lucky. ;) Up to one third of the people who are diagnosed with AIDS (at exactly where you are at this point) find out after being admitted to the hospital. They are not even given 6 wks to wait to go onto meds but are started immediately, with no questions asked.

You see so many people here complaining about side effects because this is a clearing house of information and where people come for answers. The people really suffering the problems of HIV/AIDS (that third I spoke of earlier) are probably in the hospital fighting for their lives and probably wish they were here complaining about side effects. ;D With some luck backed by the great meds these days, we'll probably be hearing from many of those people over the next few years. LOL But there are others we'll never hear complaints from because the HIV will have already been the end for them - that's why you're not reading about their HIV complaints. ;)

why should you start now without any symptoms? What do you mean? You already have symptoms! That cd4 count clearly shows that your immune system is already fairly destroyed. That's a HUGE symptom all in itself. You are now vulernable to many diseases and it's just sheer luck that you haven't already had other problems or even had cancer growing. Don't forget that many people have other life-destroying diseases, besides HIV, inside them with little to no visible symptoms - well until the end, that is.

Here's a very quick example of what can happen. My late partner was healthy as a horse in Jan 08, or so it seemed. He had the "flu" off-n-on in Feb but had to go into the hospital the first of Mar for more tests. That's when the AIDS and non-hodgkins lymphoma was diagnosed. I brought him home the last of April. Although he was only "sick" about 2.5 months, he died the first of May 08.

Not having any outward symptoms means absolutely nothing when the facts show that someone  has AIDS and that their immune system is highly damaged.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline nomatterhow

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  • Posts: 48
Leatherman,

I am poz since less than a year , is it possible to develop so quickly to aids ? my cd4 is very low, but people you talked about have been positive since years ... no ?



Sorry about your partner  :( and thanks a lot for the great message!!

I needed all these psychological support to be able to start my therapy, thats why this forum exists right ? :)

cheers

Offline ad2san

  • Member
  • Posts: 187
Unfortunately yes, it may go very fast. It depends on the person.

Go for it and let us know soon how well you are doing  :)
Feb   2009 CD4 358 VL 2000 16%
May  2009 CD4 305 VL 3069  14% <---- Started TVD+ATZ/r
Jul  2009 CD4 512 VL <50   18%
Jul 2010 CD4 418 VL <50 24%                     
Switched to Kivexa (Epzicom) + Norvir + Reyataz (due to sleep problem)
Aug 2010 CD4 606 VL <50 25%
Jul 2011 CD4 494 UD 23%
Switched to Kivexa (Epzicom) + Viramune XR (due to kidney problems)
January 2012 CD4 564 UD 31%
October 2012 CD4 684 UD 29%
January 2013 CD4 594 UD 26%
Switched to Kivexa (Epzicom) + Isentress due to BIG increase GammaGT
Feb 2013 CD4 699 UD 28%
May 2013 CD4 385 UD 28%
July 2013 CD4 CD4 636 UD 25%
Oct 2013 CD4 588 UD 39%
Aug 2014 CD4 639 UD 25%

Offline newt

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  • Posts: 3,878
  • the one and original newt
Quote
I am poz since less than a year , is it possible to develop so quickly to aids ? my cd4 is very low, but people you talked about have been positive since years

About 20% of people may need treatment 1-2 years after infection.The "10 years before treatment" is something of an urban myth. Most people need to start ARVs between 2 and 10 years after getting HIV.

You may feel well, but your immune system is decimated. Part of the reason you are not showing symptoms is because your immune system is too weak to react to some things. I had a friend in exaclty the same position, walking, talking, partying til within the space of two weeks he had a boil on his arm the size of a tennis ball, blood poisoning and PCP. He nearly died.

So, up to you to save your own life really.

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline wolfter

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,460
Most of us felt perfectly healthy right up to the point where we didn't.  My long term partner was almost in denial about his status.  He joked that he had a super immune system because he never had issues and basically refused to deal with doctors and everything associated with it.  He was awesome at dealing with my OI's through the years but couldn't deal with his own status.  Eventually, he wasn't super human any longer. 

He eventually developed what he thought was a common cold.  He came and picked me up at work and we had a great lunch.  He went to the doctor that afternoon and was diagnosed with pnuemonia.  By mid week it wasn't better and they admitted him to the hospital.  He got increasingly sick and weak and passed away that following Monday.  I've never shared this with people as I promised him I'd never tell anyone he had AIDS.  It wasn't even listed as his COD!

I only shared this story as a case in point.  Sometimes, it is too late to wait til symptoms appear.

Best wishes

Wolfie (who misses his best friend and lover daily because of a wrong mindset)
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline brenner

  • Member
  • Posts: 90
I am soooo thankful that I am on treatment.  I was lucky that I didn't have any side effects, and that it all went smoothly.  Every day when I take my pill, I thank my stars that I have access to these drugs that are keeping me healthy and alive.
I'd rather pop pills than have a tube rammed down my throat, worrying the crap out of my loved ones, risking my career, living in a hospital....should I go on?
No brainer. 
Get tested, and think about treatment.
Good luck next week with the therapy.  You'll do fine, like us.
B
Feb 23. 2011  poz diagnosed
Feb 28.  cd4 257, vl 262400, %21
Mar 14.  start Atripla
May 18.  cd4 639, vl 690, %33
Aug 19.  cd4 583, vl 60, %38
Nov 18.  cd4 450, vl UD, %38
2012
Feb.19   cd4 649, vl UD, %35
Jun 08.  cd4 524, vl UD, %34
Sep 16.  cd4 567, vl UD, %35
Dec 02.  cd4 592, vl UD, %35
2013
Mar 10.  cd4 688, vl UD, %35

Offline nomatterhow

  • Member
  • Posts: 48

Wolfie, thanks for sharing your story, it really touched me ... your love for your partner is eternal even though he is not there anymore  ...

I am seeing my doc on monday for my therapy as I have a strange resistance profile as well , I share here what he gives/tells me ... it's REALLY helping me to share my stories here, thanks a lot everybody, I am sure I am gonna be stronger than this thing in me   :)

Offline Buckmark

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  • Would you like to tie me up with your ties, Ty?
    • Henry's Home Page
I know this might sound a bit strange or stupid and I am not going to wait with my therapy, I start a therapy next week but I want to have some explanations ... but why really ? I mean I am poz since november and have strange resistance profile and a CD4 of 140-to-220 ... I know its low . but I have no symptoms, I can not be poz since a very long time cuz my last neg test was in 2010 ... I just notice all or most of  the complaints here about sickness comes from meds and not HIV !!! I have no diarrhea, no PN, no respiratory problems, no rash, no farting etc ... why should I start meds while I feel healthy and have all those side effects ???

 I know you might say that my immune system is pretty fucked up , but shouldnt I wait a bit longer till I get a bit more of symptoms to start a therapy ? the existential question is : why take meds and suffer when you know that with HIV you might live normally for a few more years before you start a therapy and have less side effects in a few years when better meds come out?

I add again that I am starting a therapy next week!

You should start anti-retroviral therapy because you don't want to end up dieing from ugly, painful opportunistic infections that you get when you have AIDS.  PCP is one of them.  So is MAC.  Kaposi's Sarcoma is another.  Your CD4 count is very low, so you are at risk for these diseases.  With today's medications, the side-effects are usually manageable, minor, or non-existent.  A far better choice than the effect of diseases caused by AIDS, ending ultimately in death. 

The Alfred E. Newman approach ("What, Me Worry?") to taking care of your health is highly inadvisable.

That said, I'm glad to hear you are going to start therapy.  It's normal to be concerned and hesitant to do so -- most people are.  But you'll manage, and you may even find that you feel better once you start meds.

Regards,

Henry





"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline buginme2

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  • Posts: 2,843
I highly recommend you seek out a good therapist and begin working on getting comfortable with the need to be on HIV medication for the rest of your life.

Based on this post and some of your previous posts I wonder how ready you are mentally to be on medication.

  Your CD4 count is low and you have significant resistance.  You cannot afford to develop additional resistance, that would be bad news and a game changer.  You can thrive however, you will need to take your medication everyday regardless of the side effects. 

Offline RedBear

  • Member
  • Posts: 34
I was perfectly healthy with no symptoms until within two weeks of having what I thought was a cold became PCP Pneumonia; 21 days in the hospital ICU.  If I knew and could have, would have started Meds.  The sickness you hear about from the Meds generally only last about a month or so; well worth avoiding what I went through...just food for thought. 
Finish each day and be done with it.  You have done what you could.  Some blunders and absurdities have crept in; forget them as soon as you can.  Tomorrow is a new day.  You shall begin it serenely and with too high a spirit to be encumbered with you old nonsense. 
                              Emerson

Offline mecch

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  • Posts: 11,507
  • red pill? or blue pill?
I know this might sound a bit strange or stupid and I am not going to wait with my therapy, I start a therapy next week but I want to have some explanations ... but why really ? I mean I am poz since november and have strange resistance profile and a CD4 of 140-to-220 ... I know its low . but I have no symptoms, I can not be poz since a very long time cuz my last neg test was in 2010 ... I just notice all or most of  the complaints here about sickness comes from meds and not HIV !!! I have no diarrhea, no PN, no respiratory problems, no rash, no farting etc ... why should I start meds while I feel healthy and have all those side effects ???

 I know you might say that my immune system is pretty fucked up , but shouldnt I wait a bit longer till I get a bit more of symptoms to start a therapy ? the existential question is : why take meds and suffer when you know that with HIV you might live normally for a few more years before you start a therapy and have less side effects in a few years when better meds come out?

I add again that I am starting a therapy next week!

You aren't reading closely enough.
1) Tons of people are on HAART - medicine - and have not side effects. Its not making us sick, its keeping us happy and healthy.
We have: "no diarrhea, no PN, no respiratory problems, no rash, no farting etc ." and we are on HAART.
2) You can wait to get painful, life-threatening HIV related AIDS illnesses and then start HAART.  That's your right to choose. But there are risks. Such as: DEATH.  Destroyed immune system that takes forever to bounce back, and the risk it doesn't successfully recover. Life-long problems due to the illnesses you suffer while untreated... Oh, you could be very sick and quite a long time. Care to lose your job?  Worry everyone around you to death? Super cool.
3) Your doctors a making an EXPERT evaluation of the risk to your health given what they know about you in comparison to everything they know and everything science has collected about when people should start HAART. So if you get a recommendation to start HAART, its because they judge that you are NOT going to live a few more years symptom free, happy dappy in a bubble of no immune system but no "symptoms."  See, 1, and 2, above.

Wake up buddy. The answer to your existential question is "I HAVE HIV" and if you don't want AIDS and DEATH the other answer is I NEED HAART.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Since2005

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  • Posts: 419
....I am poz since november and have strange resistance profile and a CD4 of 140-to-220 ... I know its low . but I have no symptoms, I can not be poz since a very long time cuz my last neg test was in 2010 ... I just notice all or most of  the complaints here about sickness comes from meds and not HIV !!! I have no diarrhea, no PN, no respiratory problems, no rash, no farting etc ... why should I start meds while I feel healthy and have all those side effects ???

Let me ask you this - Have you done testing more than once? I am guessing you have and at least confirmed with 2 tests that your CD4 is between 140 to 220. THAT'S ALONE A GOOD reason for you start meds immediately!!!

YES Meds have side effects. It’s a known fact and the truth. Well then, let me ask you another question -  Do you want to die or live? I am guessing again that you want to live then start meds. Side effects weigh out anything when it comes to saving life.

You may FEEL FINE, for today, for tomorrow but the rate you are going ( as I believe you are a fast progressor based on your facts), you MAY NOT FEEL FINE soon. Then what?  Think about that!!!

By getting into HAART, you will be able to avoid the SIDE EFFECTS OF THE VIRUS.

I am glad you are making the right decision starting the therapy. Good luck buddy. I hope you got what you wanted to know..

Best

Since
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 02:13:46 AM by Since2005 »

Offline leatherman

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  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
YES Meds have side effects. It’s a known fact and the truth.
I think we're discussed this before ;), but according to the facts/data printed in the material about every medication, the vast majority of patients do NOT deal with side effects. ;) while it's true that all meds do list side effects, it's actually not the norm to experience these side effects for a long term period. However, during the initial week or two there can be generalized short-term side effects that may happen as people's bodies get acclimated to the new balance of meds and lack of virus in their bodies.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Valmont

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  • Posts: 332
The important now is that you have not experimented illness relationated with the virus yet, despite your low numbers.  Consider you as a lucky person !!!

The other good news is that you have an acces to good medecine and are able to start your treatment right now.  Congratulation, this is a very very good decision to do it...

By the way, your body will need some time for your CD 4 to raise back to a more secure area.  Try to have the best life-style you can, eat healthly, sleep well, do some sport and avoid to expose you to situation that can make you sick (contaminated or raw food, hospitals...) because your immunity system is weak and won´t fight an infection the same way as a negative person, or as people with higher CD 4...
Apr 2011: Diagnotized
Jun 2011: CD4: 504  VL: 176.000
Dic 2011: CD4: 714  VL: 95.000
May 2012: CD4: 395 VL: 67.000
Jun 2012: CD4: 367
Agu 2012: Starting Emtricitabine 200 mg / Tenofovir 300 mg and Efavirenz 600 mg (2 pills) different brands or VIRADAY/ATRIPLA/Mylan....
Sep 2012: VL: 138
Dic 2012: CD4: 708 VL: <34  %CD4: 32%
Jan 2013: CD4: 707 VL: <20
May 2013: CD4: 945 VL: <34 %CD4: 33%
Agu 2013: CD4: 636 VL: <34 %CD4: 50%
Dic 2013: Latent TB, started Isoniazid

Offline eric48

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  • @HIVPharmaCure & tinyurl.com/HIVPharmaCure
I just notice all or most of  the complaints here about sickness comes from meds...

Starting meds is a roller coaster. Some people have complaints and their doc find a way to 'manage' (meds switch, smoking ban, a few additionnal pills...), some people don't and go back to their doc, worried that the meds are having no (side) effects !

Good Luck

Eric
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   safety stock : 2 months

Offline eric48

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  • @HIVPharmaCure & tinyurl.com/HIVPharmaCure
I am poz since less than a year , is it possible to develop so quickly to aids ? my cd4 is very low, but people you talked about have been positive since years ... no ?

technically speaking you are correct in first weeks of infection CD4 take a drastic dive , then may recover to the set point.

Where I live , the set point at month 12 is 400. My reading at month 8 was 440.

In the past, most (if not all) people were 'late presenters' so their CD4 had already declined from set point to <200. Thus 200 was one of the (early) definition for AIDS as par CDC.

Now that there are more testing and early presenters , such as yourself, it is being debated whether that AIDS definition applied to early presenter (which you can document since you had a neg test a year before)

You might see an advantage at waiting and see if your <200 can improve to a better set point.

But, on the other hand, there is growing evidence that starting within less than 6 months after infection brings some virological benefits: the virus has less time to establish reservoirs, which, as you know, is the reason why the bug can not be eradicated.

When eradication techniques appear on the radar (and there are promising signs that they will), you, then, may find a blessing to have started the therapy 'early', because it is quite likely that the 'cures' will , at first, apply to those with the lowest reservoirs

Hope this helps

Eric
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   safety stock : 2 months

Offline WillyWump

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  • your ramblings bore Yamaguchi Kitteh
My friend Scott felt fine, other than some very minor flu symptoms, until one day he woke up and couldnt walk, He went to hospital and was Dx'd with AIDS. He died some days later right after he went blind. His body/brain was riddled with cancer most likely brought on by a severely damged immune system. He never even had the chance to begin HAART. I miss him.

-Will
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 09:04:14 PM by WillyWump »
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Since2005

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I think we're discussed this before ;), but according to the facts/data printed in the material about every medication, the vast majority of patients do NOT deal with side effects. ;) while it's true that all meds do list side effects, it's actually not the norm to experience these side effects for a long-term period. However, during the initial week or two there can be generalized short-term side effects that may happen as people's bodies get acclimated to the new balance of meds and lack of virus in their bodies.

Yes, meds has its side effects and it affects people just like the virus. Some gets more of it, some don't at all and some gets less and some side effects could last short term and some last long term and if that happens by taking some particular med (s) then you switch to different meds. Nothing said above, eliminates the fact that Meds have its short and long term side effects. These are the facts that are not only written on the meds bottle but also presentable with data and sources.

Let's not turn this thread meds and its side effects. I believe, we do have forum for that. Oh yes! '”Question about treatment & side effects” Better yet, I will be more than happy to list out all the short term side effects for all the meds and provide you with data of percentage of people that suffer from it. Let's not forget about the “unknown” side effects of meds that also comes with due to its toxic ingredients. Not on this thread. You are welcome to debate on this issue but please let's do it somewhere else.

Let's get our focus back on OP’s topic – “should I start therapy at all?” – Yes you should!! The suggestion is based on your immune stat and guidelines that are accepted by the whole world!

OP, please consider taking meds seriously and don’t be afraid of the side effects. Who knows, you may be one of them who may not even suffer from short side effects much. For long-term side effects, anyone or I can't answer that. But, again, I would ask myself -  Do I want to live short term or long term? By entering into HAART, you will live longer and live healthy. Some of our members are living proof of that. At this current condition, if I were you, I would adhere to my meds due to the resistance issues. For you, it's not even hard to make a decision here. LIVE OF DIE. Based on your situation and health condition, I would follow Willy's friend as an example. You may feel fine but for how long?? I dearly hope that you got the points. Please keep us updated! Good luck and welcome to the forums!!
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 12:21:00 AM by Since2005 »

Offline mecch

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Since, "do as I say not as I do?". 

I see you gradually getting sanguine about HAART but you aren't there yet.
Nobody needs you to list the side effects of HAART - you are over-invested in this still. When your time comes you'll see its the least of worries, really. Really really.

Its always - job, love, family, friends, fun, future - la vie normale quoi - normal life!
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Since2005

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Sorry OP for the hijack!

Since, "do as I say not as I do?". 

What's your problem Meech?  If you want to argue, please invite me over and we will do that presenting facts whatever issues you are referring to. As I stated earlier, open up a thread, we will discuss somewhere else.

OP, at your stage it is critical that you follow  the guidelines to start meds and your doc recommendation.

Offline Joe K

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Yes, meds has its side effects and it affects people just like the virus. Some gets more of it, some don't at all and some gets less and some side effects could last short term and some last long term and if that happens by taking some particular med (s) then you switch to different meds. Nothing said above, eliminates the fact that Meds have its short and long term side effects. These are the facts that are not only written on the meds bottle but also presentable with data and sources.

Let's not turn this thread meds and its side effects. I believe, we do have forum for that. Oh yes! '”Question about treatment & side effects” Better yet, I will be more than happy to list out all the short term side effects for all the meds and provide you with data of percentage of people that suffer from it. Let's not forget about the “unknown” side effects of meds that also comes with due to its toxic ingredients. Not on this thread. You are welcome to debate on this issue but please let's do it somewhere else.

Since,

The thing about this forum, is we generally don't like members to make statements of fact, like the ones included in your comments above.  Each of us is very different and nobody can state as fact, that someone will or will not have medication side effects, nor how severe they may or may not be.  What bothers me about your approach is the simple fact that you have never taken antivirals, so you have no personal experience to share, other than making emphatic statements that serve no good purpose.

When discussing starting medication, a decision that is incredibly complex, it does not help when folks who have no experience to share, start telling others what to do.  You need to try and back off your attitude that you know more than most of us here... because you do not.  If you want to contribute to the forums, you can do that by encouraging members as you sometimes do, however, in this thread, you are projecting your fears of starting meds, onto others and that helps no one.

Joe
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 04:45:58 PM by killfoile »

Offline leatherman

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What's your problem Meech?  If you want to argue, please invite me over and we will do that presenting facts whatever issues you are referring to. As I stated earlier, open up a thread, we will discuss somewhere else.
Let's not turn this thread meds and its side effects. I believe, we do have forum for that. Oh yes! '”Question about treatment & side effects” Better yet, I will be more than happy to list out all the short term side effects for all the meds and provide you with data of percentage of people that suffer from it. Let's not forget about the “unknown” side effects of meds that also comes with due to its toxic ingredients. Not on this thread. You are welcome to debate on this issue but please let's do it somewhere else.
we did talk about all of this once before in this thread (http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40894). Actually though short term side effects should never play much of a factor in thinking about treatment. I say that because as body adjusts to these medications and as the body sheds the viral load and the immune system begins to reconstitute, side effects are very common and can be varied and fleeting; so not much importance can be attached to them (even when barfing and the runs are some of these side effects. LOL)

As one who has not even started medications, nor obviously completely read up about all the medications to see that the vast majority of patients do NOT have side effects to each of the meds (hence why they have FDA approval), it just seems rather disengenious of you to always be posting/warning others about the 'dire side effects inherent in all meds', as you usually put it. What your posts really show though are YOUR fears about meds and your perception of the side effects. ;) I hope when you do start (as every person with HIV does eventually) that after the inital adjustment period, you have NO issues ;) :D, so you'll stop scaring every one ;D with your posts about the supposed inevitablity of side effects.

mikie
who suffers no side effects from Truvada, Reyataz, Norvir (after the inital short term side effects); but who did have side effects from about half of the 16 other HIV meds that he has taken over the years


I see Joe posted while I was writing/editing and had some of the same things to say  ;)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Since2005

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Another time. Another location.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 05:36:34 PM by Since2005 »

 


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