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Author Topic: Insertive Anal sex without condom  (Read 12555 times)

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Offline Brackie

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Insertive Anal sex without condom
« on: September 22, 2006, 10:03:11 PM »
Hello,

I just wondered if a recent incident I had would qualify for risk of infection. The flatmate of a guy who I am seeing is HIV +. When cleaning up the kitchen, I came into the bathroom to wash my hands and absent mindedly lightly dried my hands on the towel of flatmate with HIV.

Ordainarily I wouldn't have though much of it knowing the main ways of transmission of HIV. But, The following morning I noticed that his towel had blood on it which I assume was from were he wiped himself after shaving or something. Now there would have been several hours before I used his towel and the blood getting on it and am I right in thinking that HIV dies pretty quickly in air?

So my question is, is this a non event or should I be worried? I certainly don't want to take a course of PEP again after the last horrors I had with it.

Offline Brackie

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I am convinced Pep has given me mild Lipodystrophy
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2006, 10:29:14 PM »
Around Late April I had an incident where I was top and a condom split. I decided to take a course of Pep as the guy I was with had unknown status. I took Tenofovir and lamivudine (dunno if I spealled that correctly).

After the course had finished, I noticed that my cheeks looked quite sunken, but at the time, I thought it could be stress blah blah blah. Lots of people including my doctor told me it was so unlikely that lipodystrophy would affect me because the course I took was so short (28 days) and was with drugs that apparently were not associated with this side effect.

However, several months on, my cheeks are still sunken and I noticed in certain lights, what looked like a small depression or hole underneath my cheekbone. And after reading the following in another post:

Date Posted: Tuesday November 29, 2005 7:20 AM
Posted By: rab

As someone who had severe lipoatrophy, (a 4 on the Carruthers scale {which is how it is measured} of 5, let me tell both of you what a difference doing this can make in your life. We all know that feeling of looking in the mirror at the sunken cheeks, the large divots just under the cheek bones, sunken temples, etc.

The "large Divots" I assume are holes or depressions and that is exactly what I am experiencing now. Why on earth would this still be happening? People used to comment on how Handsome I was but now my confidence is totally shattered. I will go back to the doctor next week after not having seen them since my last test nearly 4 months ago. It will be interesting at worst to see their response.

Offline Tim Horn

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Re: I am convinced Pep has given me mild Lipodystrophy
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2006, 11:13:50 PM »
Brackie:

Whatever it is you're dealing with, it's most likely not lipodystrophy.  You're doctor is 100% correct; lipoatrophy (subcutaneous fat lass in the face, arms, and legs) and lipohypertrophy (visceral fat gains, particularly around the gut) simply isn't seen in people who have only been on antiretroviral therapy for less than a month.  Moreover, the drugs you took -- tenofovir (Viread) and lamivudine (Epivir) -- are the least likely to cause this problem.  Both test tube and clinical studies have pretty much ruled out these two medications as being a cause (or even a factor) of liopdystrophy. 

Lipodystrophy, as it relates to HIV drugs, appears to be the result of a number of factors, including a history of using specific HIV drugs (Zerit is the biggest culprit), length of time infected with HIV, and length of time on HIV treatment.  A 28-day course of tenofovir/lamivudine to prevent an infection you didn't end up contracting (I'm assuming) pretty much rules out the possibility of this being HIV drug-related lipodystrophy.

What RAB -- a Forums regular -- is describing is severe lipoatrophy.  To read his post and come to the conclusion that this is what you have is nonsensical and isn't going to do you -- or your image of yourself -- any good whatsoever. 

I encourage you -- and your doctor -- to consider some of the more obvious potential causes of your gaunt appearance.  Going through PEP must have been a rather anxious time for you.  There's a lot to be said for the effects of the mind on the body, including our physical appearance. 

Tim Horn 
« Last Edit: September 22, 2006, 11:18:44 PM by Tim Horn »

Offline Brackie

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Re: I am convinced Pep has given me mild Lipodystrophy
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2006, 11:22:04 PM »
Well, you have to admit, its an astonishing coincidence. That my face has a sunken look and now I have this depression right under my cheekbone.....all after taken these drugs. I really would love to think this was all in my head but I doubt it.

Lets not forget, these drugs are still relatively new and everybody's system and metabolism is different. Its so very hard to believe that the changes in my appearance is not in some way connected to drugs that are known to cause this effect. While tenofovir and epivir are apparently less likely to cause this, there are still of the same family of drugs that do have this side effect.

I suppose I cannot comment because I am not medically qualified. And while I dearly appreciate your words and would love you to be 100% right, the cold hard facts are that my appearance has altered since taking these drugs and there doesn't seem to be a thing I can do about it.

Offline ScienceGuy25

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Re: Blood on a Towel
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2006, 11:39:34 PM »
Hello,

I just wondered if a recent incident I had would qualify for risk of infection. The flatmate of a guy who I am seeing is HIV +. When cleaning up the kitchen, I came into the bathroom to wash my hands and absent mindedly lightly dried my hands on the towel of flatmate with HIV.

Ordainarily I wouldn't have though much of it knowing the main ways of transmission of HIV. But, The following morning I noticed that his towel had blood on it which I assume was from were he wiped himself after shaving or something. Now there would have been several hours before I used his towel and the blood getting on it and am I right in thinking that HIV dies pretty quickly in air?

So my question is, is this a non event or should I be worried? I certainly don't want to take a course of PEP again after the last horrors I had with it.

Blood on a towel from shaving is certainly not going to infect anyone with HIV. You are correct HIV is destroyed very quickly upon contact with air.  The idea of even mentioning PEP in regards to this situation is ludacrious, proposterous, insane (got it).  You did not have any risk of infection and short of having unprotected sex with your flatmate or sharing needles you have absolutely nothing too worry about. You seem to have some of the facts down in regards to HIV transmission but I would recommend furthering your knowledge to avoid being concerned over things like this.  Toothbrushes, towels, toiletseats etc etc don't transmit HIV...

Offline frenchpat

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Re: I am convinced Pep has given me mild Lipodystrophy
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2006, 03:14:09 AM »
Brackie,

As someone who's experiencing lipoatrophy I'd like to say this: it is very very unlikely that 28 days of whatever drug did this to your face. It took more than a year on Zerit, a known culprit of lipo, to start showing a slight dimple on my face. Some literature say it can happen after 6 months. You didn't take Zerit, or AZT.

But you have been through a lot of stress recently, taking drugs that are hard on your body whilst fighting fear of becoming hiv+. That is a lot to take over 28 days. Stress and fear can affect your body shape, colour and function. Rashes, weight loss, diarrhea, you name it. I would definitely factor this in what is happening to you now.

hope this helps,

Pat
People have the power - Patti Smith

Offline Brackie

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Re: Blood on a Towel
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2006, 04:17:43 AM »
Blood on a towel from shaving is certainly not going to infect anyone with HIV. You are correct HIV is destroyed very quickly upon contact with air.  The idea of even mentioning PEP in regards to this situation is ludacrious, proposterous, insane (got it).  You did not have any risk of infection and short of having unprotected sex with your flatmate or sharing needles you have absolutely nothing too worry about. You seem to have some of the facts down in regards to HIV transmission but I would recommend furthering your knowledge to avoid being concerned over things like this.  Toothbrushes, towels, toiletseats etc etc don't transmit HIV...

Well I just want to double check because the blood on the towel was obviously HIV + blood, so I'm just looking for confirmation that there indeed was no risk.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Blood on a Towel
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2006, 04:28:26 AM »
Try reading the lessons, the link is found within the "Welcome" thread at the top of the page. If you are seeing someone that is HIV+ then at least inform yourself of all aspects of HIV. I don't know why you just didn't ask him.

Offline Brackie

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Re: Blood on a Towel
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2006, 04:32:40 AM »
Try reading the lessons, the link is found within the "Welcome" thread at the top of the page. If you are seeing someone that is HIV+ then at least inform yourself of all aspects of HIV. I don't know why you just didn't ask him.

No the guy I am seeing is not HIV+, his Flatmate is. As I say in my original post, it was the flatemates towel that I wiped my hands on and then this morning noticed that there was blood on it. I just wanted confirmation that this was no risk to me, especially as the blood would have been on the towel for several hours before I possibly came in contact with it.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Blood on a Towel
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2006, 04:37:18 AM »
Again read the lessons pages.

Offline Ann

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Re: Blood on a Towel
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2006, 05:07:20 AM »
Brackie,

I've merged the thread you started in the Lipo forum into your thread here. This is the ONLY forum (other than Off Topic) which you may post in - the others are for hiv positive people and their close ones. You've been posting in these forums since January 2005 and surely you know the rules by now. Make sure you read the Welcome Thread and pay attention to the posting guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.

You're not going to become infected through blood on a towel. No way, no how.

If you continue having such intense hiv anxiety, I suggest you seek some face to face help and support for that anxiety with a counselor or therapist. We cannot offer you counseling here.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Brackie

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Re: Blood on a Towel
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2006, 05:27:54 AM »
Brackie,

I've merged the thread you started in the Lipo forum into your thread here. This is the ONLY forum (other than Off Topic) which you may post in - the others are for hiv positive people and their close ones. You've been posting in these forums since January 2005 and surely you know the rules by now. Make sure you read the Welcome Thread and pay attention to the posting guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.

You're not going to become infected through blood on a towel. No way, no how.

If you continue having such intense hiv anxiety, I suggest you seek some face to face help and support for that anxiety with a counselor or therapist. We cannot offer you counseling here.

Ann


Hi Ann,

Sorry for posting in two different forums. As they were unrelated topics, I assumed that would be ok. I've re read the welcome thread and apologise for my oversite.

I'm actually doing ok as regards HIV anxiety. Believe me, I've shrugged off several incidents that would normally have caused me much upset and stress. This is in no small part to the advice and information on this site and that given by people such as your good self.

I was only a bit anxious about the towel incident becuase I knew that the blood on the towel was HIV+, so you know how the old mind wanders and starts coming up with scenarios...The Lypo issue is alas, my new anxiety and one that has overtaken the HIV one (sigh). But in this case, I feel its a legitamate concern.

Once again sorry for the oversite as regards posting and I must say, I'm pleased to see you're still on this website as patient as ever. ;)

Offline Brackie

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Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2007, 02:49:27 AM »
Well, this mornign I had sex with a guy and my condom broke! I proceeded to put another one on and then we continued having sex. I came inside him and noticed theat when Iw ithdrew the condom, that that too had failed, so for all intents and purposes I came inside him bareback. We then have a conversation with me saying "I am safe, what about you?" as I had been tested a few weeks previously and was fine.

He then tells me that in fact he has HIV but his meds keep it to undetectable levels and that I shouldn't panic. Needless to say I did panic and now face the prospect of having PEP again which I despised the previous time I took it. Is it true what he says in that there is less risk of him passing t on becuase his viral load is low/undetectable?

Also, the first time I took PEP, I had a course of Tenofofir and Laminudavine I think it was called. It actually caused lypodystrophy in my face and has taken 6 trips to the plastic surgeon for ongoing Sculptra injections to correct. I still don't have my old face back...so I amterrrified that another course of PEP will accelerate this again. What shall I do, I'm in a terrible bind. On one hand I cannot take the risk of not having the PEP but on the other hand i am also terrified of the reaction I had to it last time. The last time I had it was nearly 2 years ago, is it likely they will give me the same dose or try me ona  different brand?

Offline 411

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2007, 03:42:14 AM »
the situation as you describe it would warrant a trip to the ER and will in all likelihood result in another 30 day supply of PEP. While it is true that a person that is undetectable is less likely to transmit HIV there still remains a risk as you've had a known exposure. As you've already discovered PEP is serious business and the decision to take it should be discussed with a care provider but you need to act quickly if you want keep this option available.

PEP is most effective the sooner it is administered and the reliability diminishes the longer one waits until approximately 72 hours post exposure when PEP is no longer considered effective as a preventative measure.

In addition to the PEP option there exists the fact that you were the insertive partner which further reduces the risk of exposure and the condom. Although it failed, you don't appear certain when it failed and it would have provided a measure of protection up to that point.

All things considered your exposure risk, while present, is not extreme but you need to discuss this with a professional and decide what course of action you want to undertake. There are other cocktail options available besides the one you mentioned that you can discuss with the doctor but I would consider PEP in your case.

It's an altogether unhappy situation but good luck in whatever you decide.
If you do decide on the PEP option you'll have to wait 13 weeks from the time of completing PEP before a HIV test is considered conclusive.

Offline Brackie

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2007, 03:54:50 AM »
What about that new 1 pill a day drug.. are they liekly to prescribe that for pep?

Offline 411

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2007, 04:31:47 AM »
Combivir is a twice daily, single pill possible candidate as it contains the two drug regiment recommended as an effective cocktail but you mentioned that you had undesirable effects with the previous regiment and Combivir contains lamivudine, although I suspect it was the tenofovir that you found problematic.

Discuss this with your doctor because Combivir is a common PEP option.
Good luck

Edited to fix spelling
« Last Edit: December 26, 2007, 04:54:32 AM by 411 »

Offline Brackie

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2007, 05:45:42 AM »
By the time i get the drugs, it will be around 24hours after exposure..this is still ok yeah?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2007, 07:00:06 AM »
You need to read the "Welcome" thread and pay attention to the posting guidelines. Return to your original thread.

Offline Ann

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2007, 08:05:12 AM »
Brack,

If you want to be allowed to continue posting on this website, you need to start abiding by our posting guidelines. I discovered you were here last spring, posting in the Lipo forum, even though you'd already been told not to. Now you're here again, starting new threads when you've already been told not to do that either. Get with the program or lose your posting privileges. Yes, it is a privilege. Please consider yourself warned.

I disagree with 411 when he says that PEP is warranted in your case. It isn't. You were the insertive partner and therefore your risk is much lower, and lower still as your partner is on meds and undetectable. If you were bottom, it would be a different story and I would advise PEP in that case. Also, you were protected for most of the time and I have yet to see an insertive partner end up hiv positive following a condom break.

Please read through all three condom and lube links in my signature line. Correctly used condoms rarely break. If you happen to be rather well-endowed, you can buy larger condoms.

You will need to test, but I fully expect your result to be negative, PEP or no PEP.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline HIVworker

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2007, 01:56:12 PM »
Wow...a lot of fear of HIV. PEP isn't needed as Ann states. Me thinks there are other issues lurking underneath that don't relate to HIV at all.....you know, the mental health kind?

R
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline Brackie

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2007, 03:25:57 PM »
Ann as those posts are nearly 2 years ago and this is a completley different case, i did not think I would have to search for posts of that age and start posting from there. I didn't even think they would still be active. I'm sure you would agree that this is not unreasonable to think. I am dealing with a different situation nearly 2 years ahead of what happened previously, hence I thought it was natural a new thread would be warranted. Sorry for any misunderstanding. But however, thankyou for your views on mys situation...its calmed me down a bit.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2007, 03:27:45 PM by Brackie »

Offline thunter34

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2007, 04:01:42 PM »
I've never heard of anyone getting lipo from 28 days of PEP.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2007, 05:35:57 PM »
With two broken condoms in a row you might also check to see if they are within dates for usage and they fit you properly.

I too have never heard of that kind of physical reaction to PEP and I suggest you discuss it with a dermatologist or other medical person.

Andy Velez

Offline Brackie

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2007, 06:49:30 PM »
Well, I have just been to the sexual health clinic and  after a reasonably lengthy discussion with the doctor, I have been perscribed Kaletra for my PEP. So, I will see how I tolerate it over the next 7 days. Any advice or information on this drug would be appreciated. The doctor seems to think that as its chemical make up is totally different from the previous drugs I took, its like starting anew. Hopefully I will not have a bad reaction with this one. Wish me luck :'(

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2007, 07:12:24 PM »
Wait till you get the bill on that prescription. It not something you will be able to take and return the rest if you can't take it. I don't know anyone that would prescribe Kaletra for PEP.

Offline Brackie

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2007, 07:23:23 PM »
Well, at the local sexual health clinic, they distribute it free. I've been reading about it on this website. What do you think the chances of me suffering from any boday changes, ie fat loss or gain are ona 28 day course of Kaletra?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2007, 07:42:57 PM »
None..

Offline thunter34

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2007, 09:48:37 PM »
Well, at the local sexual health clinic, they distribute it free. I've been reading about it on this website. What do you think the chances of me suffering from any boday changes, ie fat loss or gain are ona 28 day course of Kaletra?

You have a local sexual health clinic that distributes Kaletra for free?  Really now? 
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline 411

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2007, 04:59:23 AM »
I'm inclined to give the guy a break; given his other posts it's clear there are some bigger issues at large but his most recent thread asked for some advice on a recent incident which I'm inclined to believe. Moreover, Kaletra is a legitimate PEP drug, is often prescribed in a 5 or 7 day starter pack and if Brackie were from Canada, from his perspective, it would be provided free.

Brackie, I didn't comment on your comments regarding facial changes because I, like others, wouldn't believe that possible, not from PEP. However, I do support your decision to seek a medical opinion on whether your potential exposure warranted PEP.

I'm also not particularly surprised to see you've been prescribed a starter pack of Kaletra. The fact that the attending didn't prescribe a tougher regiment of two nukes plus the PI (kaletra) also supports some comments from other that you didn't have a serious exposure which I also agree with.

The decision to prescribe PEP is not normally undertaken lightly; if you'd come into the forum commenting you'd performed oral sex on a HIV positive partner I'd have advised differently which wouldn't have included any advise to discuss PEP.

However, you described a situation that involved the situation of limited unprotected insertive anal sex with the potential for some contact with an infectious body fluid or membrane and with a person known HIV positive. Two things you don't know is how long you were unprotected and whether your partner was indeed undetectable and for how long. Combined, I remain convinced your situation met the criteria for consideration of PEP and a discussion with a medical professional. I'm also certain your provider discussed these things at length with you.

Personally I don't believe you've experienced a serious exposure nor do I expect you become infected as a result. It's true that insertive intercourse is an uncommon source of infection and there is growing evidence to support that a receptive positive person with an undetectable viral load doesn't present a significant risk to the insertive partner but it's not a certainty.

You won't experience any body changes or any other long term issues on Kaletra or any other HIV med as a result of PEP, it just doesn't happen. As to the matters you've reported in your earlier posts perhaps some quality time with a different type of professional may help put those issues in order.

Offline Brackie

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2007, 05:01:23 AM »
Yes it does. Whether it would supply for life if I became infected, I don't know. I guess I should be gratefull but I am terrified. All other risks have been nothing compared to this time..

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2007, 05:08:14 AM »
They only gave you a PI and nothing else?

Offline Brackie

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2007, 05:12:18 AM »
I'm inclined to give the guy a break; given his other posts it's clear there are some bigger issues at large but his most recent thread asked for some advice on a recent incident which I'm inclined to believe. Moreover, Kaletra is a legitimate PEP drug, is often prescribed in a 5 or 7 day starter pack and if Brackie were from Canada, from his perspective, it would be provided free.

Brackie, I didn't comment on your comments regarding facial changes because I, like others, wouldn't believe that possible, not from PEP. However, I do support your decision to seek a medical opinion on whether your potential exposure warranted PEP.

I'm also not particularly surprised to see you've been prescribed a starter pack of Kaletra. The fact that the attending didn't prescribe a tougher regiment of two nukes plus the PI (kaletra) also supports some comments from other that you didn't have a serious exposure which I also agree with.

The decision to prescribe PEP is not normally undertaken lightly; if you'd come into the forum commenting you'd performed oral sex on a HIV positive partner I'd have advised differently which wouldn't have included any advise to discuss PEP.

However, you described a situation that involved the situation of limited unprotected insertive anal sex with the potential for some contact with an infectious body fluid or membrane and with a person known HIV positive. Two things you don't know is how long you were unprotected and whether your partner was indeed undetectable and for how long. Combined, I remain convinced your situation met the criteria for consideration of PEP and a discussion with a medical professional. I'm also certain your provider discussed these things at length with you.

Personally I don't believe you've experienced a serious exposure nor do I expect you become infected as a result. It's true that insertive intercourse is an uncommon source of infection and there is growing evidence to support that a receptive positive person with an undetectable viral load doesn't present a significant risk to the insertive partner but it's not a certainty.

You won't experience any body changes or any other long term issues on Kaletra or any other HIV med as a result of PEP, it just doesn't happen. As to the matters you've reported in your earlier posts perhaps some quality time with a different type of professional may help put those issues in order.

Thanks for the common sense kind words. I appreciate what you wrote and it does help a bit. I am in Australia and my local sexual health centre does indeed give the drugs out for free. However, as I said in the above post, I don't know whether they continue to do so if you actually become infected..im sure they would, but lets hope I don't have to find out. As regards the fat changes, I am pretty much 99% sure that I suffered considerable fat loss in my face after my first exposure to pep. Thus far, this has taken several trips to the plastic surgeon to try and correct and Im not there yet. Nobody would believe me, not even my own doctors despite acknowledging that I had lost weight in my face..but it did happen and we should remember that everyones bodies is different and thus how they react to these toxic drugs. I lost no other weight at this time so it could not be put down to weight loss.

However Kaletra is a different drug with a totally diffferent chemical make up apparently, so hopefully I will not have such a bad reaction to this one. I am just so angry with myself for once again being put in this position, and if I dodge this bullet, I vow to completley change my lifestyle becuase I simply cannot go through this again, no matter how hot the guy is or how tempting the circumstances are.

Thanks for your time and advice
« Last Edit: December 27, 2007, 05:16:41 AM by Brackie »

Offline Brackie

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2007, 05:14:55 AM »
They only gave you a PI and nothing else?

Yes I just recieved the Kaletra...2 in the morning and 2 at night for the 28 days. The Doctor seemed to think this was sufficent. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2007, 05:21:29 AM »
Kaletra alone is not the recommendation for PEP in Australia.

Offline Brackie

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2007, 05:25:45 AM »
Kaletra alone is not the recommendation for PEP in Australia.

Well the doctor did say it was an unconventional choice and told me that he would have prescribed something similar to what I had had when I first took PEP if I had not of had the reaction that took place. So he seemed to think this is ok....I'm taking from your tone that you don't reckon it was enough? You're kinda worrying me now ???

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2007, 05:31:51 AM »
PEP involves taking a 2 or 3 drug combination once or twice daily for four weeks.  Not just one PI daily.

Offline Brackie

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2007, 05:36:43 AM »
PEP involves taking a 2 or 3 drug combination once or twice daily for four weeks.  Not just one PI daily.

Well, I don't know what to tell you. Thats what I've been prescribed..2 tablets of Kaletra in the morning and 2 in the eveing, so a total of 4 a day. I will assume as he worked there  he knew what he was doing. Now I'm really worried...sometimes I should NOT read the internet.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2007, 05:38:43 AM »
Contact the Canberra Sexual Health Centre

Offline 411

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2007, 05:52:32 AM »
Rod's correct and I was glad you answered him as I had a few nigglies that I was hoping your answer would clear up. Kaletra wouldn't normally be prescribed without an additional 2 drugs from another family, similar to your previous regiment. In fact I was somewhat surprised your doctor didn't go with something like Combivir and left it at that given your exposure isn't very serious.

Kaletra will be OK, if you'd had a serious exposure I'm sure I wouldn't be alone in advising you to go back to your doctor and discuss a more complete regiment because using Kaletra alone as PEP is very uncommon, not that its ineffective, just not part of general practice, your doctor should know this.

I wouldn't get worked up over this as Kaletra has been used as a standalone on occasion.

Edited due to crappy spelling
« Last Edit: December 27, 2007, 06:02:57 AM by 411 »

Offline Brackie

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2007, 05:59:26 AM »
Well I have just spoken to a nurse who deals with a PEP hotline that we can call. She told me that the doctor I used is very experienced in HIV and would have given me additional drugs had the case warranted it. Normally yes, there are at least 2 drugs involved, but I guess I am where I am. She also told me to go and see him again  tomorrow to discuss it and alleviate any fears, which of course now there are plenty. Even if he did add an additional drug in I will be around 50 to 60 hours after my first exposure so Im not sure it will even be worth it.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #40 on: December 27, 2007, 08:23:11 AM »
It's cutting it close but you are still within the 48-72 hour period which is what is recommended if PEP is going to be instituted.
Andy Velez

Offline diamond.lights

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #41 on: December 27, 2007, 09:33:30 AM »
Your fine on just kaletra. AZT alone is about 80% effective as PEP http://aids-clinical-care.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/1997/801/1

It isnt used alone now because people can rapidly develop resistance to it quickly (ie possibly during pep). Combivir is very often used as PEP but is just glorified AZT (another drug, same class). Combivir would not be used alone in people with HIV but is sufficient for PEP.

Your taking kaletra which is successfully used ALONE in people WITH HIV. Its a step up from combivir and the risk of resistance (in the extremely unlikely event you did get HIV) is miniscule. It is more than sufficient since it is a very potent drug http://www.eatg.org/news/newsitem.php?id=175

When I was given PEP the medical form the doctor completed had all different options for PEP with all number of drugs. Just keep taking the Kaletra imo.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #42 on: December 27, 2007, 09:57:34 AM »
diamond.lights, you are not permitted to post in any forum other than your own. Read the posting guidelines. 

Offline Brackie

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2007, 05:30:55 PM »
Well I'd like to ask the experts here, do they think its beneficial for me to take an extra drug or not? Bearing in mind 2 people said that PEP wasn't even warranted.....I have about 4 hours to make up my mind

Offline HIVworker

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2007, 06:14:27 PM »
Shouldn't that be a decision you make with your doctor who is a trained medical professional rather than a bunch of internet folks who you have never seen - who's medical training is unknown to you?

I'd go with what your doctor says anytime.

R
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline Brackie

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2007, 11:15:20 PM »
Well I decided to stick with what my doctor perscribed me. I pray it all works well...wish me luck ei?

Offline HIVworker

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2007, 11:19:41 PM »
Honestly, that's what you should do. From the sound of it he/she knows what they are doing from the phone call with the nurse.

Fingers crossed for you!

R
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline Brackie

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2007, 04:51:28 PM »
Well been on it for 2 full days now..the only thing so far is some mild back pain, which I had the last time..although this seems to be more upper back....Ive still kept going to the gym and Im determined to try to not let it change my routine. Ann do you think if you get any severe side effects, they make themselves known in the first few days?

Offline HIVworker

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2007, 07:32:59 PM »
Come on Brackie...do a little searching. This is a website for people infected with HIV and has lots of information on the side effects of the medications.

Rather than ask people...go read for yourself here http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/SideEffects_5034.shtml.

R
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline Brackie

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Re: Serious exposure to HIV
« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2007, 08:13:57 PM »
Come on Brackie...do a little searching. This is a website for people infected with HIV and has lots of information on the side effects of the medications.

Rather than ask people...go read for yourself here http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/SideEffects_5034.shtml.

R

Yep, I have read that information, but they don't seem to specify a time period as to when those side effects would start  - broadly speaking...I just wanted to know that isn't it true, the first few days of pep are the worst and if you make it through the first week ok, you should be able to finish the course fine? The first few days of my previous PEP regime I found quite difficult, but so far, this one seems more tolerable.

 


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