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Author Topic: Very nervous  (Read 6248 times)

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Offline bdog

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Very nervous
« on: December 12, 2011, 01:20:35 PM »
Hi Ann, Andy, and Rod,

I am a married man, though my marriage has been celibate for about a year (due to marital problems).

Last Friday (the 2nd), I had an adult "body rub" from a woman whose as I saw online.  During our conversation, she told me that on rare occasions, she has sex with regulars.  Anyway, we were both naked during the body rub.  On my testicles, right under my penis, I had shaved and had a bump (almost pimple) which I think was an ingrown hair and I had popped it.  I don't remember if I popped the whitehead part on Thursday or earlier that day on Friday (I don't remember).  There didn't seem to be an obviious open "sore" or real cut after popping it.

During the body rub, we were both naked.  The only possible genital contact was when I was kneeling down and she bumped into my "lap" region with her butt while she was bent over a few times (the entire part of the episode may have lasted 5 seconds).  It is possible that the little area on my testicle that I popped may have still been open and it may have come into contact with vaginal fluid.  It didn't feel wet at that point, but the logistics would make sense considering how she was bent over and where she was bumping.

The following Thursday (Dec. 8) I had a sore throat and swollen glands in my neck.  As of today, the sore throat and swollen glands are now gone.

Is there any possibility I was exposed to HIV after this incident?  And that my "symptoms" were ARS?  It would be odd for the ARS symptoms to be here and gone already 10 days after the incident, correct?  I am now freaked out.  I called her and asked her if she was healthy and she said yes, but I don't know what I expected her to say.

There was never any need for a condom because we did not have sex of any kind.

I really appreciate your insight.  You guys give a lot of great information on this site and I appreciate it.   I need to know whether I should get tested because of this incident and make sure I keep our marriage celibate until I get results.

Thank you!

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2011, 01:42:01 PM »
BD, whatever is going on with you symptomatically has nothing to do with HIV. Absolutely nothing you are reporting put you at risk for HIV.

Sexually it's pretty simple about protecting yourself. The only confirmed risks for the sexual transmission of HIV are unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse. As long as you consistenly use condoms for those activities you will be well protected.

There's no need for further concern on your part about this incident. If your symptoms continue you should discuss them with your doctor. They have nothing to do with HIV.

Cheers.
Andy Velez

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2011, 01:47:27 PM »
Thanks a lot for responding so quickly, Andy. 

So even if there was direct contact with that spot on my testicle and vaginal wetness, there would be no worry since there was no insertion?

I read a lot of scary stuff on the net before I found this site (about cuts coming in contact with secretions) with actual knowledgeable people on it.

Offline Ann

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2011, 02:05:11 PM »
bdog,

No insertion means no risk.

Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

ALTHOUGH YOU DO NOT NEED TO TEST SPECIFICALLY OVER THIS MASSAGE INCIDENT, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2011, 02:16:16 PM »
Thank you very much, Ann.

My wife and I were tested years ago and have been monogamous since.  This is the only kind of contact I have had since with anyone.  Because my wife stopped sleeping with me, I thought the massage would be at least physical touching that would keep me from going batty, and instead it just scared the crap out of me.  The reading over and over on the internet that vaginal secretions coming into contact with cuts or whatever cause HIV infection had me going bonkers, even though if there was any "contact" it was very, very minimal.

You guys made me feel much better and much more realistic as to my level or risk, which seems to be pretty much zero.

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond to me.

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2011, 10:11:18 AM »
Hi guys,

One last question.  If vaginal secretions did come into contact with a small open area on my testicle during the "bumping" I talked about, is the risk 0?  I have read so often how vaginal secretions contain HIV and if they come into contact with an "open wound", which I don't know if you can call what I had but maybe, it can cause HIV transmission.  I am having a problem not being very concerned about this.

It is the first time I ever did anything like this and with the timing of the swollen glands and sore throat (6 days later), I made myself really goofy.

Thanks.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2011, 10:17:54 AM »
HIV is unable to reproduce outside its living host (unlike many bacteria or fungi, which may do so under suitable conditions), except under laboratory conditions; therefore, it does not spread or maintain infectiousness outside its host.

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2011, 10:37:40 AM »
So her vaginal wetness, since it was on the outside of her labia, would have lost its infectiveness once it hit the air, assuming she is HIV positive?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2011, 10:42:53 AM »
Read Ann's reply to you.

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2011, 10:49:04 AM »
I did and I am grateful for all of the replies.  Everything I have ever read or seen said that there is HIV in vaginal secretions and if it comes into contact with a cut, there can be transmission, but those are from other websites, etc.  You guys seem much more reasonable and reliable than others I have read.  The internet is generally not your friend when it comes to this kind of medical information. 

I just had this experience (which I have never had before) and my fear is driven by the symptoms I had (I don't remember ever having painful lymph nodes to the touch before) and probably guilt.

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2011, 03:07:30 PM »
Does the vaginal wetness become incapable of infecting someone immediately even though it is still on her body?  The contact I am worried about is wetness directly to cut contact.  It sounds like it might be the same as the mutual masturbation threads I read on here, where you guys said that even if there are nicks and cuts on the hands, etc., there is no risk.  That would hold true for the scrotum too?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2011, 03:48:42 PM »
bdog,

No insertion means no risk.

Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

ALTHOUGH YOU DO NOT NEED TO TEST SPECIFICALLY OVER THIS MASSAGE INCIDENT, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann
Now read it again.

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2011, 04:11:37 PM »
Ok, I got it Rod.  Thanks for the answers, guys.

I am just very nervous and am trying to look at it as a non-issue, but finding it very difficult.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2011, 04:27:00 PM »
From my experience it seems to me that we're really talking about a mix of feelings you are having during an unsettled marital time in your life. Because you did not have a risk for HIV. Period. If we had any doubts about that we would tell you so.

This is about doubts, fears and feelings and not about science-based HIV issues.

Really.
Andy Velez

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2011, 04:33:59 PM »
Thank you very much, Andy.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2011, 04:39:59 PM »
You're welcome. I don't say this in a cliched way...things will get worked out. Just keep breathing.
Andy Velez

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2011, 04:44:45 PM »
I am trying man.  Thanks again.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2011, 04:50:25 PM »
OK. I believe you.
Andy Velez

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2011, 11:05:07 AM »
Hi again guys,

I will not keep asking questions, but I have one more.  With all of the contradictory information out there about HIV in vaginal secretions, I was wondering in what types of situations vaginal wetness on the outside of a vagina could possibly infect someone?  If you were performing oral on an HIV + woman and had an open cut around (but not in) your mouth, could that cause infection?  I thought I understood HIV transmission and am a well-educated person, but I realized after reading your responses to my questions, I don't know as much as I thought (and thought it was much easier to catch), and there is a lot of misinformation out there.

Thanks.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2011, 11:12:58 AM »
HIV is unable to reproduce outside its living host (unlike many bacteria or fungi, which may do so under suitable conditions), except under laboratory conditions; therefore, it does not spread or maintain infectiousness outside its host.

The answer is: None.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2011, 12:50:41 PM »
The fluids in the vagina which can transmit HIV are high up in the cervical area. They would not be outside of the woman's body. And because HIV is such a fragile virus, it does not remain viable outside of the vagina in female fluids.
Andy Velez

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2011, 01:48:00 PM »
Thanks to you both for taking the time to answer again.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2011, 04:12:34 PM »
You're welcome. Get on with your life, BD.
Andy Velez

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2011, 04:36:48 PM »
Will do.  You guys really do great work here and deal with people when they are at their most stressed and neediest, like I have been.  Thanks again for your patience and for all of the information.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2011, 04:58:29 PM »
You're welcome. Get on with your life, BD.
Andy Velez

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2012, 10:06:14 AM »
Good morning,

I have an additional question.  Am I correct that as a man, "insertive" oral sex with a woman has zero risk of HIV infection?  Specifically, I was getting a massage and the women put the tip of my penis in her mouth for literally a second before I told her to stop.  She apologized and that was that.  Being a worrier, I am making myself a little nervous about this.

Thanks for your feedback.

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2012, 10:07:38 AM »
One more thing, right before the massage, she brushed her teeth.  Could that make anything riskier if she had dental issues (which I have no idea about)?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2012, 10:49:46 AM »
You never had an exposure.

Offline Ann

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2012, 10:59:54 AM »
dog,

Getting a blowjob is absolutely not a risk for hiv infection and it doesn't matter if the person brushed their teeth first.

Not only is saliva not infectious, but it also contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2012, 11:42:59 AM »
Thanks guys.  I was upset because I never would have let her do that in any event and stopped it immediately.  Then when I thought about it, I made myself nervous about possible blood being involved from the tooth brushing.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2012, 02:13:12 PM »
Just by way of educating myself, is oral not a risk to the insertive partner because of the enzymes in the infected person's saliva that would render any blood they have in their mouths (if any was there) unable to infect?

The studies you guys cite are completely compelling and you do a great service here.  I know what I explained is a non-risk event and you made me feel much better about it.   I am just wondering about the biology of it.  Thanks.

Offline Ann

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2012, 02:40:19 PM »

Just by way of educating myself, is oral not a risk to the insertive partner because of the enzymes in the infected person's saliva that would render any blood they have in their mouths (if any was there) unable to infect?


Dog,

Yes, it's that, and it's also having enough blood present to cause concern. Unless you're in the habit of repeatedly punching a person in the mouth before they blow you, there could not possibly be enough blood present to worry about.

Not one person has ever been infected through getting blown and you are not going to be the first.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!!!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2012, 03:02:47 PM »
Thanks a lot for the information, Ann, and for all you guys do here.

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2012, 03:53:36 PM »
Two final questions.

Can a recent infection (so that the receptive partner has a high viral load) make oral sex riskier for the insertive partner if the receptive partner is positive?

Is dizziness an ARS symtom?

I am sorry if I am being nuts, but I have suddenly had this weird dizziness thing going on and it has never happened to me before.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2012, 04:08:26 PM »
Nothing has changed with regard to your concern about HIV. You were not at risk. Period.

Dizziness can be caused by any number of things including emotional upset. Check it out with your doctor. And then you might consider seeing a therapist or other such professional to deal with your feelings. We can't help you with that in this setting.

All we can continue to say without reservation is that nothing you have reported of your activities put you at risk for HIV. Zero risk, bud.
Andy Velez

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2012, 04:25:25 PM »
Thanks Andy.  I am sorry to bother you guys, but after about 10 years of monogomy, to have any sort of contact with someone else clearly has me feeling guilty/nervous and I have myself thinking I am the one guy who is going to get it from one second of insertive oral, which seems to be ridiculous.

I will leave this alone so you don't get tempted to give me a time-out.  Thank you again for the time you guys have spent answering my questions.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2012, 05:02:29 PM »
Guilt, shmilt.

Get on with your life. HIV is not your problem. Period.
Andy Velez

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2012, 10:42:03 AM »
I have read everything you guys have said on here and it made me feel better.  Yet, I still have moments of making myself nervous about the insertive oral I asked about before, despite the incredibly short duration.

I keep seeing this 1 out of 20,000 statistic, which seems to be basically 0, but not 0.  And I know there have been reports from people who tested positive that their only risk was insertive oral.

It seems like you guys are as confident as can be that oral is not a risk factor for HIV.  Is there any circumstance where it could be?  Any blood in the mouth would have to be significant enough to see to be a concern right?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2012, 10:43:49 AM »
No incident HIV infections among MSM who practice exclusively oral sex.
Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States

Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update
J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228

AIDS: Volume 16(17) 22 November 2002 pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men

Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan
Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.

Studies which show the fallacy of relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to carefully controlled study insofar as HIV transmission risk is concerned:

Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117
Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;

Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2012, 10:46:37 AM »
There have been absolutely no documented instances of HIV transmission via Insertive oral sex. How is it even possible to place a statistical value on an incident we cannot confirm?

You did not, and will not get HIV from having your penis sucked.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2012, 11:16:19 AM »
I wonder how they could document reports of it.  Like if I said "I haven't slept with anyone but my wife in 10 years and have only had one second of oral from a massage lady and tested positive" would someone try to confirm that for a paper or just assume I was lying?

Anyway, I see what you are saying and I know I am just being nutty and overly worried.  Thanks for all the information.  Rod, I read those reports.  They make me feel much better.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #41 on: January 17, 2012, 11:27:40 AM »
I wonder how they could document reports of it.  Like if I said "I haven't slept with anyone but my wife in 10 years and have only had one second of oral from a massage lady and tested positive" would someone try to confirm that for a paper or just assume I was lying?

Anyway, I see what you are saying and I know I am just being nutty and overly worried.  Thanks for all the information.  Rod, I read those reports.  They make me feel much better.
After 30 years of scientific studies you would be deemed as not being truthful about your exposure had you received a confirmed positive result.

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2012, 11:39:12 AM »
Not that I actually expect it to happen, but that would be frustrating. 

Anyway, thanks for the additional information. 

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2012, 11:42:57 AM »
It would certainly make the news if confirmed, and would indicate that HIV has mutated from an infectious model to a contagious disease.

Please let this go.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2012, 11:45:51 AM »
I know if it was that easy to get, the entire world would be positive.

I hear you Jk.  I have to let it go.  Thanks.

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2012, 03:39:36 PM »
The only reason I would need a test in this situation is because my brain is going haywire and I might be one of those nutballs that needs a negative result to move on, right?  In the unlikely event that my wife decides to sleep with me after a year and a half of forced celibacy, I gather that I can feel confident that I am not putting her at risk at all.

Offline Ann

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2012, 04:13:27 PM »
bdog,

Yes, you only need to test for your own peace of mind and yes, you can have sex with your wife without putting her at risk for hiv.

You haven't yet been warned about being given a time out, but I know you know it's a distinct possibility as you mentioned it yourself in reply #35. You are long-overdue for one, so that's exactly what I'm giving you.

Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2012, 04:16:46 PM »
Hi guys,

I just came back to (1) apologize for being such a broken record that I got myself banned, and (2) to report that to no one's surprise but my own, I got myself tested and the results are negative.  I actually did think that I may be the first person to get HIV from insertive oral, but thankfully, I am just not that special.

I know your jobs aren't easy and you aren't here to hold everyone's hand while we test and worry, particularly when it is unnecessary, but providing no-nonsense and very clear information to me was a big help when I needed it and felt that I had no one to talk to.  Thanks and I hope you all continue to do well.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2012, 04:31:13 PM »
A negative result is always a happy thing.

Now get on with your life.
Andy Velez

Offline bdog

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Re: Very nervous
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2012, 12:13:38 PM »
I guess I should have known better than to order a test on the internet.  I ordered an HIV antibody/P24 antigen test but looking closer at my results, I was given an HIV antibody/ western blot that contained a p24 antigen antibody test.

Since it was over 4 weeks after the non-risk event, I will take that as a negative and move on (I know most people would test positive by 4 weeks and it was nuts of me to be worried anyway).

If I ever test again, though, I am going to an actual doctor or STD testing center.

 


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