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Author Topic: How much money is really enough?  (Read 12181 times)

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Offline denb45

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How much money is really enough?
« on: December 11, 2011, 08:23:06 PM »
I am really curious as what takes for each of us pozzies to live ...I always thought boy if your making a $50,000 $100,000 a year your rich. Well, both Bob & I make less than 20K a yr. each, and I feel far from rich. We are responsible and pay all of our bills and save each month. But, we're not driving fancy Cars or Trucks...in fact our Truck is  more than 13 years old. both of us aren't on medicaid or FS and any other State- adie - programs, and I'm shopping in discount stores, like Walmart and krogers. and the dollar-store..

We don't take luxury vacations. and we don't even use credit cards, unless we have to, So Does anyone have any idea what it really takes to live comfortably and @ what level of income? please answer this question with an open mind, and be objective with your replays, it's different for all of us, and were all @ different income levels,

 Cause we all know that most of you queers in this forum, really aren't as pretentious as some of you claim to be, and I'm not gonna name names here, let's not go down that ugly road, so please answer with caution  (and be objective) if you cannot be objective please don't even answer any of this... I don't wanna incriminate any of you here, just wanted to know your take on being a pozzie and how you all live
Thanks

Dennis in ABQ
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Online Jeff G

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2011, 09:08:16 PM »
That's a very subjective question . It depends on what level of lifestyle you are accustomed to and where you choose to live . It also depends if you are living on investment income or a salary from a job .

I feel fortunate and content because I can put a roof over my head and pay my bills and eat out once or twice a week with friends and still pay my medical copay . That may not be enough to satisfy other people who are more ambitious about what they expect out of life but it works for me .     

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2011, 09:14:00 PM »
Jeff, I like the way you think,  that's a great answer  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2011, 09:14:30 PM »

 Cause we all know that most of you queers in this forum, really aren't as pretentious as some of you claim to be, and I'm not gonna name names here, let's not go down that ugly road,

I really hope this isn't about that tea pot.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2011, 09:17:45 PM »
I really hope this isn't about that tea pot.

 :D no nothing about a tea-pot @ all, just speaking in generalities here, no pun-intended, so leave your ego @ the door  :-*
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2011, 10:12:58 PM »
I have to agree with Jeff - it is subjective -
I work full time and make a fairly good salary with good benefits; however, South Florida can be an expensive place to live.

By the time rent is paid, car insurance, gas, insurance co-pays, food, student loans, electric, cable, cell phone, gas, etc. there is just enough left to do a few things.

I enjoy going out dining and probably get to do so 3 times a week, a also still smoke cigs (so, that takes another $200 a month - although, I plan on quitting next week - I have already set the date) --

I can still very easily get set back by unexpected bills. I had a car repair bill hit this weekend that was over $900 - so that put a little dent in money I had set aside - and will take a few weeks to make back up.

I once learned from a boss of mine that happiness in life as it relates to finances isn't always dictated by how much one makes, but by how much one spends as a percentage compared to how much one makes (ex. if someone makes $30,000 a year but is spending $20,000, they are probably happier financially then someone who is making $100,000 a year but spending $99,000 of it).
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Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
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02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline leatherman

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2011, 12:11:28 AM »
So Does anyone have any idea what it really takes to live comfortably and @ what level of income? please answer this question with an open mind, and be objective with your replays, it's different for all of us, and were all @ different income levels,
something more than $8600 a yr + foodstamps. I have been able to live on that amount in both OH and SC. In both states, I have a house, utilities (gas, power, water, including basic phone and cable), and a used vehicle. I am able to feed myself and my 3 dogs, eat out at Wendy's once a month (what a dining out splurge that is. LOL), and have access to medications and healthcare.

Am I comfortable? With my basic needs (and a little more) met, yes, I would say I'm comfortable. But I'd be a heckuva lot more comfortable with something over $10K a year, that's for sure. LOL
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


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Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2011, 12:45:23 AM »
Yes Phil, and it's even harder if you live alone (I don't so that makes things better) also, living in South Beach is expensive, but so is NYC, but I heard that most people are happy with 50K a yr or more, anything less than this is kinda hard no matter what you do, and yes, I read about your 900 buck
car-repair, so i know how that is too  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2011, 12:47:58 AM »
something more than $8600 a yr + foodstamps.

WOW now that very hard, I couldn't even imagine living on that a yr.  ::) well @ least you got a handle on it (so to speak) good luck to ya  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline tednlou2

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2011, 01:11:01 AM »
Well, this is very subjective.  I have distant family members who live in rural areas in their paid off, but run-down trailers or homes.  They aren't interested in new TVs, cars, etc.  They have zero interest in new laptops, Ipads, or cell phones.  They are perfectly happy with the basics.  Some heat their homes with wood stoves and wouldn't have it any other way.  Some have old, but clean and functional furniture.  Others have mattresses I wouldn't sleep on and really need replaced.  But, those are the ones who just don't care.  They'd rather spend their money on bingo the casinos.      

But, I don't think that fits most Americans.  We want working furnaces and central air.  I say for the average, childless American couple, you need $60k to live "comfortably."  This would mean a modest home/apt and older vehicles.  But, if you lived within your means, you could have a decent place and not have to worry about utilities being shut off.  This is still living pay check to pay check and not being able to save much.  A furnace needing replaced would be a huge setback.  With many of us having student loans, I would think the figure would be more like $70k at least.  All bets are off, if you don't have good insurance as we all know.  Or, if you have tons of credit card bills rolling in each month.  And, this figure wouldn't work for NYC or San Fran.  Although, in those cities, you dont need a car/car insurance.  You'd pay a lot for an apt, but you wouldn't be spending money on updating the kitchen, bathrooms, landscape, and basement like you would for a house.  So, maybe it would all balance out.      

Offline bocker3

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2011, 07:26:46 AM »
So what is the point of this Dennis - are you going somewhere with this? 
It seems clear that there will be a different answer by each person -- unless we all devolve to generalities.  My question is a genuine one, because with just one cup of coffee in me it looks like it really is all about understanding the financial circumstances of forum memebers?  I doubt that is your intent, but it is all I'm grasping right now.

Mike
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Nov05 288/18%  47,564
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Offline wolfter

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2011, 07:47:05 AM »
Morning Den.  Not sure what specifically you're asking.  I'm certain you're not asking our specifics on our social economical statuses.  I've been all over that scale and I can say without a doubt, that I'm happier now with my current status than I ever was in the past.  Having strived hard in the past for more and then even more, I was a slave to possessions and missed out on what was really important.

I'm quite comfortable, but more importantly, I've reached that level of contentment that can't be purchased.  I was fortunate though to contribute the maximum to my 401k, purchase employee stock weekly and never go in debt with charge accounts.  I'm surprised now that I had the foresight to do this considering I never expected to reach middle age, let alone retirement age. 

I think many people still get caught up, not understanding their true needs v's of their wants.

You always have a fridge full of beer, so all your needs must be met... ;D

Wolfie
productivity breeds content

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2011, 09:01:37 AM »
What's the matter with all you queers,  :D  I'm not asking any of you to devolve anything in an open forum, and none of your financials are really anyone's business, now is it? so there is no need to be defensive here...

I live a very modest life, I'm comfortable, and so is my otherhalf Bob, we both are, it is, what it is, there is no hidden meaning in any of this, and that was not my intent at all here, selective, I don't think so, it's only that way if you want it to be, so it doesn't have to be that why  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline elf

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2011, 10:48:27 AM »
Health care is expensive and I'm afraid for my future.
I'm thinking of emigrating to Norway. (But their language is a bit difficult.  :( ).
This week I'll be leaving 2000 USD to my dentist alone. So, my travel to India will be canceled. :(
Money may not buy you happiness, but it surely can give you some health back.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 10:53:05 AM by elf »
Let's have a Kiki!

Offline buginme2

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2011, 11:20:25 AM »
Its never "enough" in the sense that the more money you make the more expenses you have.  Now that I make more, I have more things to pay for such as a mortgage, student loan debt, car payments, etc etc. 

As far as a $ amt that also depends where you live.  I own a small house built 100 years ago in Seattle.  Now say I lived in Texas, for as much as I spent on my house I could buy a huge McMansion with a pool and acerage.  But here in Seattle its quite modest. 

I'm fortunate that my employer pays for mine and my partners healthcare.  To me thats more important that most other things.   I place a higher value on that than most other things. 

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2011, 12:15:39 PM »
Exactly, we do what we can to live in this world, and YES, I have co-pays for meds & doctors visits, and let's not even talk about seeing any specialist especially outta your network  ??? we all live with-in our means, whatever that may be  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline tednlou2

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2011, 02:48:29 AM »
I thought of this thread when I saw this story about a family of three living on $20,000/yr.  Their house is actually nice and decorated well.  The key is that they are talented enough to find "trash" and repurpose it.  I may have missed it, but I don't think they said whether they rent or own---if so, how did they buy the home.  Or, how they pay for insurance on their truck.  They did say they get healthcare from the state due to their income.   

http://lifeinc.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/13/9424249-family-of-three-lives-well-on-20000-a-year

Offline mecch

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2011, 07:03:30 AM »
So Does anyone have any idea what it really takes to live comfortably and @ what level of income? please answer this question with an open mind, and be objective with your replays, it's different for all of us, and were all @ different income levels,

I lived in NYC in the 80's after college with take home of 50k+ one year and then 990USD a month take home the next two years -- because I switched professions. What is comfortable is extremely subjective. 12K take home a year - was barebones but I was happy and felt secure - because I was young (and also insured in every possible way, by the way, because i had the executives benefits package but a shit salary!)

So I think there are two different important points to personally evaluate to answer your question
1) do i feel comfortable on my income - can I eat, live, entertain myself comfortably
2) do I feel secure.

If sometimes I feel that a period of my life is materially not comfortable, there has been the compensation of feeling secure, not in danger, optimistic

Sometimes I feel that I am comfortable but do not at all feel secure.

Feeling that there is way not enough money AND that one is not secure, that is the worst.

Tednlou makes good points. If you feel all right with what you've got AND feel secure about the present and future, then that is a decent state to be in.

______________

But your question adds the angle "for hiv+ people" and I think it becomes so complicated.  What is enough is being in a situation where the medical care and treatments are accessible for the long run.  So I am quite sure a lot of people who have incomes from middle class to working poor, and that is quite an income range, have very heavy anxieties about how to afford an HIV diagnosis and treatment.  And it really is rather special these days as a diagnosis. Because the carrot is that with constant medical surveillance and when time, constant treatment, it is a chronic manageable condition and you'll live your long life, working and retiring just as otherwise planned.  Cost - 20? 30? 40? thousand a year.  Forever... What anxiety, how is this going to be paid.

And we don't even discuss our financial obligations to partners, family or our own children if we are parents. 
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 07:15:03 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline TonyDewitt

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2011, 06:27:06 PM »
Den asked a really good question (literally read my mind), and Mecch gave nicely detailed answer. My ID specialist's comment that HIV is "very expensive" tells me that everyone has had that same thought, i.e. how can I / would I factor in (or survive) on my income while carrying a chronic medical condition? What happens if I get too sick to work? Den's fortunate to be in a relationship, but I'm not, and I still see myself as the main person carrying not only myself but my family. Mecch's reference to anxiety hits the nail right on the head - we all want to survive in this world, at least live reasonably, but unless health care and medications and specialists fall from the sky, we have to worry about those expenses. Losing a job is a huge hit for many people, but for those with chronic medical conditions, it is even worse. God bless all of you folks who can make it on low income, and damn those politicians (Chris Christie) who slash health benefits to chronically ill people who aren't millionaires.

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2011, 06:59:47 PM »
Yes, I can live the way I do now w/ my partner, 2 incomes are a lot better than one, could I live as good without my partner's income, yes, but I would have to seriously down-size and cut-back  a few things
and I hate being alone, hell I'd find someone with an income, even if we weren't an item, that would work too  :D
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline TonyDewitt

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2011, 07:30:21 PM »
Way to go Den - you remind me of my friend Colette who never let being poz stop her from carrying on.

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2011, 12:11:27 PM »
Way to go Den - you remind me of my friend Colette who never let being poz stop her from carrying on.

 ;D I mean really, nobody is that dam pretentious, if they tell you they are, you know dam well most of them are lying, even the folks that still work and aren't on disability are lying ;D
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline MitchMiller

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2011, 12:26:40 AM »
I look at that question more in terms of how much savings do you need to feel financially secure and satisfied with your lifestyle, so you would feel you can retire.   

It's much more expensive for those of us in single person households (I live in a 275 sq ft studio apt. that's really cheap for where I live at $735/month)  I believe I need at least 800K in net worth.  Actually that's much lower than most financial analysts would recommend, especially given HIV infection and the likely possibility we will all be shopping for our own insurance instead of having the luxury of Medicare in the future.  At 5% interest, that's 40K/annually while leaving the principal alone.  Eventually, inflation will make it necessary to begin to dip into it.

Offline mecch

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2011, 05:34:44 AM »
I look at that question more in terms of how much savings do you need to feel financially secure and satisfied with your lifestyle, so you would feel you can retire.   

It's much more expensive for those of us in single person households (I live in a 275 sq ft studio apt. that's really cheap for where I live at $735/month)  I believe I need at least 800K in net worth.  Actually that's much lower than most financial analysts would recommend, especially given HIV infection and the likely possibility we will all be shopping for our own insurance instead of having the luxury of Medicare in the future.  At 5% interest, that's 40K/annually while leaving the principal alone.  Eventually, inflation will make it necessary to begin to dip into it.

Oh my lord.  Proof of my observation that these things are relative.  Suze Ormond would never look at my financials, not least because I don't have any "financials".  LOL.
800K net worth would be dream, to me.  Yet I see its the figure that makes you feel secure....
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2011, 10:41:45 AM »
 Suze Ormond would like me, cause I don't own a swinging dick ANYTHING, and if I do use a credit card, I paid it off every month, also I got a little bitty nest-egg saved up, for emergencies, you just never know if you'll need it someday, ( in-case bob throws me out on my ass) so far so good, always a good idea to protect your self financially ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline mecch

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2011, 06:15:06 PM »
Denby, I'm jealous!  You're so responsible.
I would love to get the Suze Orman seal of approval!  "Girlfriend" would hang up on me without even bothering to lecture!  I just starting watching a year ago. I wish she was around when I was 30 or at least I wish I was more responsible starting back then.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline MitchMiller

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2011, 12:59:59 AM »
Meech: 

Not sure if you still live in NYC, but I can't see how anyone could survive there without a sizable income/nest egg unless you are lucky enough to live in a rent controlled apt.  (not rent stabilized) 

It frightens me to think how many people 40+ are completely unprepared for what lies ahead financially.  They'll be working until they drop dead... if they can get work in their later years.  Most people don't even know that they will be lucky if they get more than $18K/yr from soc security.  One friend of mine says he just doesn't think about it and just plans to live off of soc security.  I think we're going to see a lot of homeless elderly people in the future.

Offline Since2005

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2011, 04:19:53 AM »
Denby, I'm jealous!  You're so responsible.
I would love to get the Suze Orman seal of approval!  "Girlfriend" would hang up on me without even bothering to lecture!  I just starting watching a year ago. I wish she was around when I was 30 or at least I wish I was more responsible starting back then.

Denby, I am jealous too!! I am nothing like you meaning I should be like you. It doesn't matter how much I make, I could NEVER save. I could spend hundreds of dollars in a few days just to live with 20 bucks for the following 2 weeks. Salary is irrelevant for me which is a shame. I should be more responsible. I am in my thirties now and I should do it NOW. I have got my student/family loan to pay back! But, I have other issues to deal with and speeding money is one way to cope with things. Well, that's just my excuse. I am a spender pre gay (may be not so much) but pre hiv also.

Now, I need to go back to listen to other wise people who are good with finances. What are the tips?  Well being able to see and and think about the future is important. I need to start thinking about the rainy days and the costs of  meds etc. from now on. Well, I am saying this now because I am done with 'spending days' this week :)

Phil, bought up a good point, its not how much one makes, its how much one saves. That's the idea. I think..

Since ( who is ready to give suze a try!)


« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 11:06:07 AM by Since2005 »

Offline Growler

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2011, 05:57:09 AM »
"No woman can be too rich or too thin."

GROWLER (Who has no talent for poverty)
“If loving someone is putting them in a straitjacket and kicking them down a flight of stairs, then yes, I have loved a few people.”

Offline wolfter

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2011, 08:06:05 AM »
"No woman can be too rich or too thin."

GROWLER (Who has no talent for poverty)

The same goes for men.   ;D 

Wolfie
productivity breeds content

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2011, 08:57:59 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W7F5hQsNHI

My landlord wants to raise my rent by 8.6%... I new putting in new kichen would lead to that.  That's a 16% increase in six years.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2011, 10:49:31 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W7F5hQsNHI

My landlord wants to raise my rent by 8.6%... I new putting in new kichen would lead to that.  That's a 16% increase in six years.

Oh come on miss P you should have seen that one coming, I wanted to say something about all of the upgrades to your place, but I figured you find that one out for yourself, if you don't wanna pay that increase
then MOVE, of course you probably won't get anything like you have now for a cheaper price  ;)

and to all you other queers, I can save cuz, I don't have any bills or debt, however if I buy a brand new Truck like I want to then, I'll be stuck with a car-note, for 60 months and my savings will take a huge hit just paying a down-payment on that new truck, so just cuz something is new, doesn't mean that it's better, you all know it will cost you MORE in the long-run  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline buginme2

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2011, 10:56:52 AM »
I just started paying back my student loan from grad school, $50k.   I could have bought a really nice Lexus for that. 

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2011, 11:08:09 AM »
I just started paying back my student loan from grad school, $50k.   I could have bought a really nice Lexus for that.

@ living on just under 20K a yr. a 50K Lexus is definitely NOT in my budget, maybe a 18K or 22K CHevy-Truck might be doable  ;D
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2011, 11:42:40 AM »
Oh come on miss P you should have seen that one coming, I wanted to say something about all of the upgrades to your place, but I figured you find that one out for yourself, if you don't wanna pay that increase
then MOVE, of course you probably won't get anything like you have now for a cheaper price  ;)

Nice way to show a bit of compassion from someone that lives on a fixed income -- a bit hypocritical to say the least.  I didn't ASK my landlord to put in a new kitchen -- the sink collapsed and ruined the part underneath the sink. All he needed to do is put a piece of plywood under the damaged part -- he put in all new cabinets to be able to raise the rent.

Is there a reason you're so abysmal bitter about both life and myself? Seriously. I live on a fixed income akin to you -- BUT I ALSO DON'T HAVE A PARTNER TO SHARE IN MY EXPENSES.

Expect to be un-friended from facebook by the end of the day, along with your cohorts who talk about me behind my back on other's walls that you don't think I'm privy to. And yes I know about that.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 11:45:16 AM by Miss Philicia »
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2011, 12:12:50 PM »
Don't get your panties in a wad, nobody is talking about you, maybe that's your whole problem, and please don't come-outta-bag on me, you know better than that now  :D  my father warned me about queers like you, but I never listen to him, only to find out after he died, that he liked queers too, just like I do, I'm a cocksucking QUEER too, I'm just older than you, and I happen to like you, so get older yourself dear  :-*
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2011, 12:59:43 PM »
You are so tedious it's beyond belief.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Cliff

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2011, 03:22:38 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W7F5hQsNHI

My landlord wants to raise my rent by 8.6%... I new putting in new kichen would lead to that.  That's a 16% increase in six years.
I assume you negotiate.  I'm dreading when my lease is up, as rents are skyrocketing in Lon due to people putting off buying.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2011, 03:36:10 PM »
I assume you negotiate.  I'm dreading when my lease is up, as rents are skyrocketing in Lon due to people putting off buying.

He thinks my rent is too low compared to the other units in the building even though I'm on the top floor and my apartment isn't as nice as all the others. Plus he's only raised the rent one in six years, but that's because it was in shitty state to begin with. My parents say to negotiate as well... but to be nice about it. I need time to cool off by this evening :)

Still suck that he gave me warning only 10 days before the 1 January rent is due, don't you think? I'm a month-to-month anyway.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2011, 03:39:53 PM »

Still suck that he gave me warning only 10 days before the 1 January rent is due, don't you think? I'm a month-to-month anyway.

Sorry to hear about this Ms. P.
My rent just went up $10 a month - but that is first increase I have had in two years and I still pay a fairly low rent for the location.

In addition to negotiating, have you thought about doing a 12-month lease? I know that my rent would be $30 a month higher if I did month-to-month - but having a 12-month lease (even though it forces me to stay put for the 12-months) gives me a lower monthly rent as the landlord knows that they don't have to worry about the apartment being vacated for at least 12-months.

Hope it all works out for you.
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Online Jeff G

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2011, 04:16:53 PM »
Sorry this is Happening David . When I was living in chicago my rent went up $10 every year . I was primarily living off disability so that made it even tougher .

Offline mecch

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2011, 04:56:26 PM »
Mitch, I moved to Switzerland 14 years ago, change careers (yet again).  That worked out rather well, but didn't plan well in my early 40's cause i was in a couple and double income, he 10 years younger, figured i could start socking it away "in my mature years" when his income was reaching its max.  Just now its been 5 years of hell, hideous divorce. Job changes. Battling to get back to a full time contract still going on, rebuilding as a single guy. Seroconversion. etc etc.

Since, wake up, you need to watch SUZE religiously and start planning man. Don't you have a master's?  You must get yourself a comfortable life, plan for mature years.

All you nellies talking about 10 percent here, 15 percent there, rent hikes. (Just kidding, anything is impossible on tight incomes!)  But just thought I would share: One day in 1996 i got a 100% rent hike in Brooklyn, and there wasnt JACK SHIT I could do about it.  Just move out.

Here in Swiss cities, go try to rent in the current market and its the same as if you would rent on Park Avenue, Monte Carlo, or whatever the luxury street is in Moscow.  So freakin expensive and there are very very few apartments at any price, let alone dream of finding the bargain.  Zurich, Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, its all the same.  Like renting space on the International Space Station!  Back when i was in college I had a bf from geneva, a different one, long before I moved here.  I just saw his apartment listed last week for 5,800.  He was priced out years ago, of course..

I dont know when my deal is going to collapse.  I don't want to think about it.  But yeah, I better plan.  My building just got bought by the one who bought the one next door 2 years ago. They completely yuppified that one.......  Dramatic architectural lighting, a copper roof. They were gold-leafing the lobby today, I noticed!  WTF? And totally pretentious because that lobby NEVER saw gold leaf in its hey day, it was for the average middle class, I'd say, in 1900. 

Next year I'm going to inform myself about the reality of the retirement I face here.  I think it might have to be closing up shop in my own apartment and moving into a room in an old folk's home.  Maybe that will be fine.  At least, I'm open to change.

I also starting thinking about what I could prepare for now, before 50, to make professional level income after forced retirement as a professor.  I have no idea?! 

I was talking to the bakery owner today.  She doesn't have to retire.  But lots of jobs have forced retirement ages. 

« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 05:11:37 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline WillyWump

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2011, 06:42:14 PM »

Still suck that he gave me warning only 10 days before the 1 January rent is due, don't you think? I'm a month-to-month anyway.

If you're month to month, he has to give you a 30 day notice (a month) of change of terms, or at least thats how it is in Tejas. It should spell this out in your lease if you wish to object to it.

But nevertheless, sorry this is happening to you.

-Will
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2011, 07:11:02 PM »
Sorry this is Happening David . When I was living in chicago my rent went up $10 every year . I was primarily living off disability so that made it even tougher .

six years here -- $13.33 increase year year (thought not all at once)

Should I complain or not? A similar until goes for +$800 or so he says, so mine would be $630.  That said, mine is not in as good a shape -- it's not been painted in five years, it has wall-to-wall carpet and everyone else has wood floors, I only have a shower and they have bathtubs, no dishwasher, and no tile floor (hello linoleum).

I moved in here a mere 2 months before the landlord bought the building so there was NO renovation work every done.

Yes, I'm on a month-to-month because my first year lease is done -- but *hello* it costs a lot of money to move to another apartment much less when you live in a fourth floor walk up.

Also, my apartment is convenient to the subway which means a great deal to me when I have health issues -- like multiple surgeries, etc.

Now... why oh why don't my parents by me a simple one bedroom apartment :)
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 07:13:52 PM by Miss Philicia »
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline OneTampa

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2011, 07:19:38 PM »
Believe me, I understand covering coin when cash strapped.

However, I also have a bit of good news to share on the monetary side.  Near the end of each year where I work, our budget goes up for review and approval for the coming year.  As always, we include the projected revenues, expenses, adjusted merit increases (if possible) and--after wishing upon a star and praying to the tooth fairy--recommended bonuses.

Well, the Board approved our budget (since we did well this year) and I was able to inform staff that they would not only get merit increases this year but an end of year bonus.  The money was direct deposited into staff personal bank  accounts today.  When I went around with confirming notices, I never heard some many toothless "Thank you Jeebbus!"  :)


P.S. I will not be on solid foods for awhile until I get my new teefies. :)

P.P.S.  The above accounting is true with humor thrown in for fun and flavor.
 
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 07:26:30 PM by OneTampa »
"He is my oldest child. The shy and retiring one over there with the Haitian headdress serving pescaíto frito."

Offline WillyWump

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2011, 08:10:52 PM »
six years here -- $13.33 increase year year (thought not all at once)

Should I complain or not? A similar until goes for +$800 or so he says, so mine would be $630.  That said, mine is not in as good a shape -- it's not been painted in five years, it has wall-to-wall carpet and everyone else has wood floors, I only have a shower and they have bathtubs, no dishwasher, and no tile floor (hello linoleum).

I moved in here a mere 2 months before the landlord bought the building so there was NO renovation work every done.

Yes, I'm on a month-to-month because my first year lease is done -- but *hello* it costs a lot of money to move to another apartment much less when you live in a fourth floor walk up.

Also, my apartment is convenient to the subway which means a great deal to me when I have health issues -- like multiple surgeries, etc.

Now... why oh why don't my parents by me a simple one bedroom apartment :)

Given everything you've laid out, I would say to just grin and bare it and not complain. But of course I'm not living there.


POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline aztecan

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #46 on: December 22, 2011, 08:14:30 PM »
I make a living, get by, but am not raking in the cash. (I work for a non-profit).

I, like Dennis, live in New Mexico, but I live up north. Unfortunately, it is the second-most expensive county in the state, second only to Santa Fe.

The rents are so high here, people can actually buy property and pay less each month on their mortgage than they would pay in rent.

That is what I did.

I am lucky, I live simply. I don't have central heating, I use a pellet stove for most of my heat in the winter and cool with a swamp cooler in the summer.

My car is 8 years old, paid for, and I still love driving it.

I rarely eat out by myself, but I have a group of friends with whom I have weekly get togethers to watch movies, talk, eat and enjoy each other's company.

We sometimes go on the occasional camping trip, pooling money to pay for food, camping spots, booze, etc.

I also attend AMG each year, or almost each year, first and foremost because I get to see the great people who have become part of my AMG family. It also affords me the opportunity to see parts of the country I might not see on my own.

But, to attend this, I save my money for most of the year. Rather than charging it, I pay cash for everything. Sometimes that limits how much I might spend or what I buy, but I also get home without a bunch of bills hanging over my head.

I am not wealthy in monetary measurements, and I doubt I ever will be. But, I know many people who live on very little money, and I count myself lucky to be able to do all that I do.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline wolfter

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2011, 08:49:18 PM »
Gees, almost seems like this thread should be in the old geezers section... :D  None of will ever be as rich as we want to be or as poor as we could be.  We LTS have made it this far and we all know how to take it in stride and deal with each potential crisis that comes along.

I started saving and cost cutting immediately upon my return from Seattle.  I've kinda become a spendthrift.  Starting to enjoy the hunt for the bargain too.  AMG week is the one thing I've promised to myself from here on out if humanly possible.  It meant that much. 

Wolfie
productivity breeds content

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2011, 08:53:20 PM »
I like Mark live in NM, but I live a county with the most expensive rents & mortgages, back in Nor-cal I had a very nice 1300 sqt, foot split-level condo w/ a garage, I got it back in 90 when I made good money, but after 8 yrs. of illness and AIDS, in 98 I had to walk away
for that place  :-[

 I didn't make enough on SSDI to pay for it anymore I had to file chapter 7 bankruptcies, and @ the time was living off little more than 15K a yr. even with Bob's income we still couldn't hang on to it anymore, so we packed up what we had & moved to ABQ, and we've been here every since (9yrs. now)

 We are just OK, but we cannot afford to buy a house, and we don't wanna do this @ 55 yrs. old
that ship has already sailed for us, and we rent, but we just get by they haven't rased our rent in 6 yrs. I doubt they ever will, we live in a modest 1200 Sq.foot 2 bedroom condo-style Apt. with no garage, we like it, but it's not new it was built in 1980, and I mean everything in it is old, and not updated @ all, we have heat, and a swap-cooler, it's cozy and we like it for now......

So I know what loss is, I have suffered a lotta loss, and it smacks to high heaven every-time I look back on what I had, but, I can live on what we make & we get by, and were lucky we can go on Vacation once a yr.
were not rich, but we get by on what we both make.......David for what it's worth, I hope you can @ least get your landlord to work with you on your place, cause, I know how that is, so your not alone, there are a lot of us that live the way we do, but, we all get by somehow  :'(  ok, I just poured out my heart & soul here, so I'm gonna go cry now  :-\
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline hope_for_a_cure

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2011, 09:17:32 PM »
he gave me warning only 10 days before the 1 January rent is due, don't you think? I'm a month-to-month anyway.

That really bites!  His greed is getting the best of him for sure.  Your place is convenient to Center City as well as the South Street area so I know you dont want to give that up.  The 10 day thing is a bit unreasonable.

I thought I was poor when I was making around 100K/yr Dennis.  Talk about a recalibration!  Whew!!!  The lean years just after all that ended did one thing for me for sure, made me appreciate just how far I could stretch a buck. 
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 09:19:41 PM by hope_for_a_cure »

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2011, 09:28:36 PM »

I thought I was poor when I was making around 100K/yr Dennis.  Talk about a recalibration!  Whew!!!  The lean years just after all that ended did one thing for me for sure, made me appreciate just how far I could stretch a buck.

Well I never went to collage, my parents could only afford for my twin-sister to go to collage, so I enlisted in the Navy, the most I ever made in my lifetime was only a mere 32K a yr. and that was well over 15 yrs ago  :-[
I lot of you guys have made way more than I ever did, and are way smarter than I'll ever be :D
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Growler

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2011, 09:51:58 PM »
Money Saving Tips for the Modern Queen

No 1.
Always Swallow! He'll be so grateful and semen is a fair source of protein and other essential nutrients!

No 2.
Drinking your own piss is an excellent way to recycle those expensive party drugs.

No 3.
Unscrew all the light-bulbs. Saves on the power bill and dim lighting is always more flattering.


GROWLER (who fancies himself as the new Martha Stewart, without the sensible heels)
“If loving someone is putting them in a straitjacket and kicking them down a flight of stairs, then yes, I have loved a few people.”

Offline Ann

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #52 on: December 22, 2011, 10:57:24 PM »
I live in public housing - what's called "council housing" here. I pay rent weekly and every year I've been in the house I'm in currently, the rent has gone up approximately £4.50 ($7.00-ish) a week each year, so that's a yearly increase of £225 ($350.00-ish) (we get two "free" weeks at the end of December).

Word has it that for the council authority under which I live, the yearly increase this April will be raised to £5.00 ($7.80-ish) at the very least - £250 ($390-ish) a year.

At least I'm getting a refurb (new wiring, plus a new kitchen and bathroom) in the new year. It's sorely needed as it hasn't had a refurb since these places were built in the early 70s.

Private sector rates are so sky-high here that I'd probably be living in a cardboard box if it weren't for public housing.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #53 on: December 22, 2011, 11:11:09 PM »
Wow Ann, that's interesting, I wish I could get a refurb, but my landlord is a cheap California investor that hasn't done anything to the place for many yrs. and it's been on the market and REDUCED twice, I wish I had the money to buy it, you have to spend money to make money, but, my landlord doesn't seem to care about any of that, all they do is take our money and laugh @ us all the way to the bank, I feel like a total failure just living there, sometimes I just wanna cry   :-[
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #54 on: December 22, 2011, 11:17:59 PM »
I am amazed every year that when my friends who are on Social Security get any kind of cost of living increase (which is minimal) their HOPWA share of the rent goes up and their food stamp benefits (SNAP/EBT) go down.  So, my one friend, who will get about a $22 increase in Social Security in January is seeing his food benefits go down by $20 and portion of rent he has to pay under HOPWA go up $10 - so he takes a $30 loss for a $22 increase --- ridiculous.

Rents here in South Florida are fairly high as it is --- I have been looking at renting dowtown near my job - but the one bedroom units I have been looking at are running $1,500 a month and those are for the lower level (first 15 floors) - if I want to be on the 20th - 30th floor, it will be around $1,750 - $1,800 month. --- So, I may stay living in the "suburban ghetto" that I live in --- at least it is centrally located and the increase has only been $10 a month over the last two years - and enough taxi drivers live in the building that I can always get a taxi if I have car problems   ;D
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #55 on: December 22, 2011, 11:23:49 PM »
Urban Ghetto, tell me about it Phil, every-time I look out my front patio, some ass-clown is being arrested for cooking meth, and i cannot use my truck to get outta the dam driveway, cause ABQ finest has the whole dam street blocked off ..pisses me off to no end  ::)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Ann

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #56 on: December 22, 2011, 11:29:39 PM »

 So, my one friend, who will get about a $22 increase in Social Security in January is seeing his food benefits go down by $20 and portion of rent he has to pay under HOPWA go up $10 - so he takes a $30 loss for a $22 increase --- ridiculous.


Isn't that actually an $8.00 loss? He's given $22 extra, then has $20 taken back off him via loss of food benefit. That still leaves him with $2 more than he started with before the $22 increase. Subtract the extra $10 he has to pay HOPWA, and he's $8.00 down.

Still not fair, it still sucks big-time, but it's a big difference from $30.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #57 on: December 22, 2011, 11:33:53 PM »
Isn't that actually an $8.00 loss? He's given $22 extra, then has $20 taken back off him via loss of food benefit. That still leaves him with $2 more than he started with before the $22 increase. Subtract the extra $10 he has to pay HOPWA, and he's $8.00 down.

Still not fair, it still sucks big-time, but it's a big difference from $30.

LOL - yep, $8.00, unless of course I borrow $2 a month from him - then it would be $10  ---- ;)

but, it just is crazy how they do things - give you an increase and then basically take it and then some away.
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #58 on: December 22, 2011, 11:36:17 PM »
Shit I can't even get HOPWA, when I 1st moved to ABQ I tried to get medicaid and rental help, they took one look @ my SSDI and laugh me outta the welfare-office, they told me."This is New Mexico, and you don't live in sunny California anymore, you make more than enough to live here  ::)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #59 on: December 22, 2011, 11:50:34 PM »
Shit I can't even get HOPWA, when I 1st moved to ABQ I tried to get medicaid and rental help, they took one look @ my SSDI and laugh me outta the welfare-office, they told me."This is New Mexico, and you don't live in sunny California anymore, you make more than enough to live here  ::)

Shortly after being diagnosed, and when my income was substantially lower due to a job loss, I applied for HOPWA when the wait list opened in Broward County - that was 3 years ago. They conducted a lottery to select 300 people to put on the wait list --- there were over 1,200 applicants. I got on the list - number 280 - they have placed approximately 60 people from the wait list in three years - and I am no longer eligible (due to income); however, if I was still eligible - it would probably be about another 3 years before they would get to my number (for a total wait of 6 years) --- but, as said, I am not eligible any longer.

In Fort Lauderdale, they were allowing people to be placed on wait list who had just HIV diagnosis - In Miami-Dade County, they only allow persons with an AIDS diagnosis to receive HOPWA rent voucher (HIV positive can receive Emergency Assistance - if they have funding available).
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #60 on: December 23, 2011, 12:07:52 AM »
Shortly after being diagnosed, and when my income was substantially lower due to a job loss, I applied for HOPWA when the wait list opened in Broward County - that was 3 years ago. They conducted a lottery to select 300 people to put on the wait list --- there were over 1,200 applicants. I got on the list - number 280 - they have placed approximately 60 people from the wait list in three years - and I am no longer eligible (due to income); however, if I was still eligible - it would probably be about another 3 years before they would get to my number (for a total wait of 6 years) --- but, as said, I am not eligible any longer.

In Fort Lauderdale, they were allowing people to be placed on wait list who had just HIV diagnosis - In Miami-Dade County, they only allow persons with an AIDS diagnosis to receive HOPWA rent voucher (HIV positive can receive Emergency Assistance - if they have funding available).

Yeah well the problem with me is, I live with Bob, and he makes almost the same income as I do ( give or take 6O or 70 bucks) and here in New Mexico, you cannot live with someone, cause they count all of the household income, and so does our state medicaid, I didn't loose my dual eligible status because I made too much, it was due to the both of us having too much household income ( bob is still dual eligible status)
but I cannot live with him and get any kinda help @ all, so I don't quailify for much help @ my ASO

Mark is the one who knows about all of this, I should have ask him to explain all of this to me, but, it's too late for any of that now, that ship has already sailed for me  :-[
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Ann

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #61 on: December 23, 2011, 12:15:08 AM »

but, it just is crazy how they do things - give you an increase and then basically take it and then some away.


Reminds me of years ago after my hep c treatment ended and I tried going back to work part-time. I got long-term incapacity benefit (fixed amount, not means tested, but you can only work x amount of hours per week) topped up with a living allowance. I had to report my weekly earnings to the living allowance people (different department to the LTIB people) and a large percentage of that would be subtracted from my living allowance. I was allowed to keep what amounted to around £15-£20 of my weekly earnings.

But by the time I paid for the (expensive) bus fares and other unavoidable (but small) expenses that go hand in hand with working, I was basically working 16-20 hours a week for the same amount I'd been getting for not working. What a great way to encourage people to try to build up their strength after illness and get back into the work force!
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #62 on: December 23, 2011, 12:21:19 AM »

Yes Ann it's so unfair here in the states the poorer you are the worst your treated, if I wanted go back to work and do what I did 15 yrs ago, I would need more than 500 T-cells, but I cannot do this, and I've have to start all over again @ the very bottom of the barrel, and that would only be around 17K a yr. but here's the kicker, I already make that amount per yr.
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Cliff

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #63 on: December 23, 2011, 08:38:16 AM »
six years here -- $13.33 increase year year (thought not all at once)

Should I complain or not? A similar until goes for +$800 or so he says, so mine would be $630.  That said, mine is not in as good a shape -- it's not been painted in five years, it has wall-to-wall carpet and everyone else has wood floors, I only have a shower and they have bathtubs, no dishwasher, and no tile floor
On iPad so sometimes miss things but I don't think it's about complaining.  He wants you to pay x, you want to pay y. It's a discussion to see if you can meet in the middle. You have nothing to lose. He says no and you either move or you pay. You're no worse off from having the discussion. Focus on the added cost to him if you move (flat goes empty for x weeks, repairs and renovations plus any reletting costs.

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #64 on: December 23, 2011, 12:23:33 PM »
I make a living, get by, but am not raking in the cash. (I work for a non-profit).

I, like Dennis, live in New Mexico, but I live up north. Unfortunately, it is the second-most expensive county in the state, second only to Santa Fe.

The rents are so high here, people can actually buy property and pay less each month on their mortgage than they would pay in rent.



I rarely eat out by myself, but I have a group of friends with whom I have weekly get togethers to watch movies, talk, eat and enjoy each other's company.

We sometimes go on the occasional camping trip, pooling money to pay for food, camping spots, booze, etc.

I also attend AMG each year, or almost each year, first and foremost because I get to see the great people who have become part of my AMG family. It also affords me the opportunity to see parts of the country I might not see on my own.

But, to attend this, I save my money for most of the year. Rather than charging it, I pay cash for everything. Sometimes that limits how much I might spend or what I buy, but I also get home without a bunch of bills hanging over my head.

I am not wealthy in monetary measurements, and I doubt I ever will be. But, I know many people who live on very little money, and I count myself lucky to be able to do all that I do.

HUGS,

Mark

Oh Mark  :-* I knew there was something I loved about you, you are a unselfish man, I hope that Bob & I can get to Meet you someday, D.C. is still up-in-the-air with us, so we haven't decided on this yet  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline TonyDewitt

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #65 on: December 23, 2011, 12:35:09 PM »
Den, what kind of work do you do now? (If Im not being too nosy).

Offline dpb

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #66 on: December 23, 2011, 12:46:37 PM »
That's a very subjective question . It depends on what level of lifestyle you are accustomed to and where you choose to live . It also depends if you are living on investment income or a salary from a job .

I feel fortunate and content because I can put a roof over my head and pay my bills and eat out once or twice a week with friends and still pay my medical copay . That may not be enough to satisfy other people who are more ambitious about what they expect out of life but it works for me .   

I agree.

When I was stationed overseas, I was provided rent-free government housing, free food daily at the dining facility (three meals a day, seven days a week), and comprehensive healthcare at no cost.  I had no debt and very few bills or financial obligations.  Although my salary was only around $25,000 a year, I was able to save the majority of my earnings.  For example, my average monthly pay was around $2,100.  I would save $2,000 each month and live off the rest (roughly 95% savings rate).  I liked being frugal and the security I was affording myself.  I liked simplicity and minimalism.  I knew the power of compound interest and the daily sacrifices I was making would pay off later.  I had nearly $55,000 saved by my 23rd birthday.  My goal was $100,000 by the time I separated from the service at age 25, which I was easily on pace for.

Then came my HIV diagnosis.

I was quickly reassigned to a stateside duty station per military policy.  The allowances I was receiving for serving overseas (around $550 a month) were halted.  Shortly thereafter, I was (inaccurately) informed that I must live in off-post housing due to my medical condition. This obviously meant now having bills like everyone else: rent, utilities, food, phone, gasoline, insurance, maintenance, etc.  I had no vehicle, furniture, or furnishings.  So I was suddenly forced into needing all of these things at a time when I was completely unprepared for them.  I was still reeling from the shock, depression, and post-traumatic stress of HIV and a complete life change.  I made poor financial judgement and purchased a brand new vehicle, brand new furniture, and ultimately spent over half of everything I had worked so hard for, and for so long.  Now, I'll be lucky to have half of what I had originally planned for.  I know I shouldn't complain about my financial situation, but I worked very hard and wanted nothing more than to be successful.  I desired that security because it was sorely missing from my childhood and a tumultuous economy which forced me into the military to begin with.

I guess the moral of my story is: don't be an idiot like me. 
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 12:56:27 PM by dpb »
Date        CD4    %    VL
1/15/11    Diagnosed
3/1/11    525    18    168,518
5/12/11    558    16    331,791
5/16/11    Started Atripla
5/31/11    NA    NA    1,200
6/15/11    721    21    330
7/15/11    649    23    231
8/15/11    569    25    UD
11/17/11  752    26    UD
3/1/12    634    27    UD
7/2/12    594    26    UD
2/13       676    30    UD
9/13       662    31    UD

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #67 on: December 23, 2011, 01:01:27 PM »
Den, what kind of work do you do now? (If Im not being too nosy).

I've been on SSDI since 98, I used to be a Public Safety Worker, then an Armored Car employee  :)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline TonyDewitt

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #68 on: December 23, 2011, 01:16:03 PM »
Cool, thanks for sharing :)

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #69 on: December 23, 2011, 01:18:20 PM »
@ dpb your not an idiot, I like you did some of the same things, and listened to a lotta of very bad advice form many jealous queers (who I though were my friends), but I found out who was really a friend when I got sick with teh AIDS, when all my money run out so did they.....I learned that you really have to be very careful just who you want as friends  :-[  and those life lessons can be very hard on anyone financially, just ask me I should know, I can relate, so don't be so hard on yourself  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline TonyDewitt

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #70 on: December 23, 2011, 01:39:03 PM »
Indeed everyone makes financial mistakes, whether it's a bad investment, lending someone money, or being in a relationship where you get taken to the cleaners - I've done all three! Looking back and beating yourself up about it just makes you feel bad, so instead try to look at it as a lesson learned.

Offline Since2005

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #71 on: December 23, 2011, 02:22:41 PM »
Mitch, I moved to Switzerland 14 years ago, change careers (yet again)... 

Since, wake up, you need to watch SUZE religiously and start planning man. Don't you have a master's?  You must get yourself a comfortable life, plan for mature years

...Next year I'm going to inform myself about the reality of the retirement I face here.  I think it might have to be closing up shop in my own apartment and moving into a room in an old folk's home.  Maybe that will be fine.  At least, I'm open to change...

I also starting thinking about what I could prepare for now, before 50, to make professional level income after forced retirement as a professor.  I have no idea?! 

First, Meech, don’t tell us that you moved to Switzerland because of your ex partner. I have always thought that you moved there because you hated the policy/republicans etc. here in the States!

You are right! I need a wake up call. I am making the most I have ever made in my life. This is my second job after my grads. Of course, NYC is expensive. But, the money that I am bringing in, I should be way more than fine!!! Funny thing is (may be not), this job is temporary and I am not even thinking about that. I spend money like crazy. That’s what I said when I mentioned salary is irrelevant. Its like the same as when I was making lot less few years back. I envy those who can handle their spending. But, I also have issues to deal with. I think everything is kind of mixed up together. But NO EXCUSES!

You are a professor, you are not even 50 yet! You have a long way to go! How about the idea of coming back to States? If not, then move in to a place with some hot roomies. I heard Swiss are kinda hot. Good luck Man, hope things are gonna work out for you too.

I guess the moral of my story is: don't be an idiot like me.

I would say you haven’t met me yet! I know how you feel. I do feel that way too sometimes. At least, you have some hard cash in you, you are young, and you have a good place to live with good furniture and a new car!  Look at the positive sides. Yes, you wanted none of that but there are things that we do sometimes for no specific reasons. I also understand it took you years to get to where you are at and you worked hard for it. At least, you have things to show up for :). I agree with the other comments. I would take it as lessons learned ( that’s what I tell that to myself…sotto voice)

@ Miss P – I would check the market price to see if you could find a newer place for the same price (with the increased rent and I would also consider the moving costs etc. as you said). I think your parent’s gave good advice. I would be cool but firm while I negotiate with the landlord. He did not raise the rent for 6 years (if I am not mistaken) and he may not do it again for another number of years. It sounds like you have a nice place…

Since ( who is talking sign language with Growler -  Really? Semen is full of protein? Damn! why did I spend money on buying eggs this morning?!)
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 12:45:37 PM by Since2005 »

Offline Growler

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #72 on: December 23, 2011, 05:33:49 PM »
OK here's the break down from Sydney Australia.
The Australian and US dollars are currently on parity.

Income $304 a week (government benefits)
$180 a week ($720) a month for a room with shared bathroom and kitchen (includes electricity)
$25 a week public transport
$75 a week food and protein powder.
$7.50 a week recharge mobile phone.
which leaves $16.50 left over for discretionary spending.

GROWLER
“If loving someone is putting them in a straitjacket and kicking them down a flight of stairs, then yes, I have loved a few people.”

Offline mecch

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #73 on: December 24, 2011, 08:06:02 AM »
I live in public housing - what's called "council housing" here. I pay rent weekly and every year I've been in the house I'm in currently, the rent has gone up approximately £4.50 ($7.00-ish) a week each year, so that's a yearly increase of £225 ($350.00-ish) (we get two "free" weeks at the end of December).
Those hikes are pretty shocking!
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #74 on: December 24, 2011, 08:10:11 AM »
No 3.
Unscrew all the light-bulbs. Saves on the power bill and dim lighting is always more flattering.
I agree there. When I was young I once had a bf twice my age and his apt was so dim I used to laugh thinking about Blanche Dubois and her chinese lanterns.  Now I like dim too, but hopefully not deluded and don't need it....
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 08:54:44 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Ann

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #75 on: December 24, 2011, 11:32:49 AM »
Those hikes are pretty shocking!

But the rent I pay is way below what I'd pay in the private market here, even with the hikes. And if I lived in private housing I'd have to either put up with the existing conditions or pay to have things updated myself, and then be subject to a rent increase because of the improvements I myself made. I've seen it happen to quite a few people.

The cost of living - particularly where housing is concerned - is nearly that of London. Most things in the shops are expensive too because just about everything has to be shipped or flown in. The lower retail costs of things over in Liverpool astounds me every time. I still consider myself lucky to be living on this Rock and I don't really want to move anywhere else.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #76 on: December 24, 2011, 12:13:14 PM »
Here in Swiss cities, go try to rent in the current market and its the same as if you would rent on Park Avenue, Monte Carlo, or whatever the luxury street is in Moscow.  So freakin expensive and there are very very few apartments at any price, let alone dream of finding the bargain.  Zurich, Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, its all the same.  Like renting space on the International Space Station!  Back when i was in college I had a bf from geneva, a different one, long before I moved here.  I just saw his apartment listed last week for 5,800.  He was priced out years ago, of course..

I just watched a House Hunters International where a family was moving from England to Geneva. Wow! it is expensive! Apparently Geneva is the 4th most expensive city in the world. They looked at this old house in need of updating that rented for $10,000 a month! They ended up in a modern, generic apartment for $7000 a month. I just can't imagine RENTING a place for that amount of money.

Offline BT65

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #77 on: December 24, 2011, 05:32:11 PM »
Well I never went to collage, my parents could only afford for my twin-sister to go to collage,

Dennis, have you ever heard of paying for college yourself?  My parents couldn't afford to pay for any of my siblings, nor myself, to attend college.  My brother and I went, and both of us have racked up a ton in student loans.  So, don't feel lonely about your parents not being able to pay.  Also, you make quite a bit on SSDI; much more than I used to make.  Living with Bob should give you a sorta-good living situation.  Together you both probably make more than I do working. 
I'm not even going to talk about the nightmare that is going back to work while being on SSDI.  I'm still living the nightmare, and not getting the SSDI anymore.  It's a cluster fuck to say the least.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #78 on: December 24, 2011, 05:48:46 PM »
Hey Betty Thanks for your reply  :D I don't really have any regrets about not graduating form a Large expensive Collage, however I did go to Jr. collage after the Navy, and was able to secure a service-trade
in the County Public Safety sector, and later on in the Private sector, making almost 32k a yr. isn't all that bad for not being a Collage Grad  ;) (I wish i still made that now, but I don't) and Yes I'm grateful for what I do have, not all that bad for 55 yr old with Teh AIDS and other related health problems  :)  @ this point I wouldn't even try, that ship has kinda sailed for me @ my age  ;)
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 05:59:37 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Hoover

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #79 on: December 26, 2011, 09:02:18 AM »
I feel so bad reading how devastated so many people are from being poz.
Now that we are over the breaking in period and are UD, our lives have returned to normal. Cost for us now is about $100 each a month. Our houses and cars are paid for and not needing heat or AC we have $40 electric bills so we could live on little cash if needed. We could wake up tomorrow and the product we sell could be replaced leaving us with no income what so ever. You just never know what the future holds. With that said, I would like to offer anyone help if they require a medical procedure they cannot afford in the states. We have our house and guest house open for world wide house exchange and would be glad to help anyone who needs to come to Costa Rica for cheaper medical procedures. We can offer our knowledge of the doctors and city, travel to doctors, a place to stay and hopefully good food and friendship. Airfare from major cities can be cheap to get here and the doctors are very reasonable. CR is the destination of many North Americans for medical tourism. Just a thought.

Cheers,
Hoover and the husband
Infection date: March 16, 2010
20/05/10 - CD4 348  VL 58,000  Lymph nodes in jaw painful!  Antioxidants started.
01/06/10 - CD4 428  VL?
24/06/10 - CD4 578  VL 9,800
13/07/10 - CD4 620  VL?
04/09/10 - CD4 648  VL?
01/11/10 - CD4 710  VL?   CD8 972
16/12/10    CD4 738  VL?  CD8  896   
02/02/11    CD4 520 (month of parasites and new lab)
14/03/11 started Truvida and Sustiva (Efavirenz)
04/07/11 CD4 686 VL 75 CD8 588  41%
10/10/11 CD4 757  45%  VL UD

Offline TonyDewitt

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #80 on: December 26, 2011, 11:58:53 AM »
Hoover - what a incredibly kind, generous offer! I've been the CR once, and found the people there to be very nice. I also recall CR getting high marks for social closeness. I believe the saying there is "pura vida", or "pure life". Thanks again for being so kind & caring, and Happy New Year!


Offline Hoover

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #81 on: December 26, 2011, 02:05:56 PM »
Thanks for the kind note Tony.
It is beautiful here and best of all is the medical community is first class.
My husband's upper GI scope cost us $115.00 and my lower and upper cost $500.
Dental is cheap! Our supplier of Atripla sells for around $100 a month supply.
If I had to catch HIV, at least I picked a good place to live.

Hoover
Infection date: March 16, 2010
20/05/10 - CD4 348  VL 58,000  Lymph nodes in jaw painful!  Antioxidants started.
01/06/10 - CD4 428  VL?
24/06/10 - CD4 578  VL 9,800
13/07/10 - CD4 620  VL?
04/09/10 - CD4 648  VL?
01/11/10 - CD4 710  VL?   CD8 972
16/12/10    CD4 738  VL?  CD8  896   
02/02/11    CD4 520 (month of parasites and new lab)
14/03/11 started Truvida and Sustiva (Efavirenz)
04/07/11 CD4 686 VL 75 CD8 588  41%
10/10/11 CD4 757  45%  VL UD

Offline TonyDewitt

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #82 on: December 26, 2011, 11:18:55 PM »
You're welcome Hoover - seems like your country has its act together with regard to medical care; reminds me of Ann living where she lives as well. Then why do people in America go crazy when the idea of raising the level of health care is proposed? Aren't we shamed by comparison to these other countries with better health care? Just food for thought...

Offline mecch

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #83 on: December 26, 2011, 11:45:00 PM »
Dental is cheap! Our supplier of Atripla sells for around $100 a month supply.
If I had to catch HIV, at least I picked a good place to live.
That is branded Atripla?
Off the pharmacy shelve and 100 is the retail price for a month of Atripla?.

Or that is the price you pay, and it is a portion of the cost, and the government and insurance pays the rest of the retail price?

Or that is the price of your generic atripla from India?

All first line HIV drugs are the same as in Europe? All available?  Intellence? Isentress? etc.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Hoover

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #84 on: December 27, 2011, 08:10:16 AM »
The Atripla we buy is sold from a pharmacy Panama and comes in a bottle marked Atripla.
The cost is around $100 per month supply.
Bottles nearing their exp date cost $85.00.
Our doctor set us up with this supplier as he is also a patient of his.
The CR health system will give us sustiva, AZT and the third for that combo.

In the past we have purchased our truvada from India and used the free CR sustiva.
I still have about 6 bottles of truvada to finish. In three months I will no longer have to drive over two volcanoes to get my free sustiva, we will be completely on Atripla.

Cheers,
Hoover
Infection date: March 16, 2010
20/05/10 - CD4 348  VL 58,000  Lymph nodes in jaw painful!  Antioxidants started.
01/06/10 - CD4 428  VL?
24/06/10 - CD4 578  VL 9,800
13/07/10 - CD4 620  VL?
04/09/10 - CD4 648  VL?
01/11/10 - CD4 710  VL?   CD8 972
16/12/10    CD4 738  VL?  CD8  896   
02/02/11    CD4 520 (month of parasites and new lab)
14/03/11 started Truvida and Sustiva (Efavirenz)
04/07/11 CD4 686 VL 75 CD8 588  41%
10/10/11 CD4 757  45%  VL UD

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #85 on: December 27, 2011, 09:21:18 PM »
fyi schmucks, I negotiated my landlord downward with that rent increase so it will only be slightly more than half of what he originally asked for. :-*
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #86 on: December 27, 2011, 09:30:32 PM »
fyi schmucks, I negotiated my landlord downward with that rent increase so it will only be slightly more than half of what he originally asked for. :-*

Great job - Ms P.

When I first moved to Fort Lauderdale - about 13 years ago - I lived in a charming quad located on on W. Las Olas in Lauderdale in a historic area - my initial rent was kind of high - but the landlord liked me (translation - wanted sex), so I was able to "negotiate" my rent down a bit - by going down a bit myself - and over a bit - and under a bit - and.... well, you get the picture.......  my current landlord is a straight female (dayuuuuummmmm it!!!!) - so, I don't get a break. Hmmmphhhh! >:(
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline mecch

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #87 on: December 28, 2011, 01:43:35 AM »
Wow who knew the price could be so different!  Somehow your country gets it so cheap?
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Ann

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #88 on: December 28, 2011, 05:22:57 AM »

 my current landlord is a straight female (dayuuuuummmmm it!!!!) - so, I don't get a break. Hmmmphhhh! >:(


You never know, she may have a penchant for strap-ons that you just don't know about. Get yourself the gear, "accidentally" leave it out and invite her over to talk about your rent. If her eyes light up when she sees it, you know you got her where you want her.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained!
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mecch

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #89 on: December 28, 2011, 01:29:04 PM »
As I continue to be amazed by the different pricing possible for Atripla, I googled this info straight from the company:

So in a nutshell, this means that the poor struggling for HIV treatment in the USA are being punished by whom?  By the government unwilling to foot the retail price most people in the us manage to pay through insurance? Or by a company that manages to sell it for a fraction of the us price, in almost a 100 countries? Or both? Or no one?


ATRIPLA
On August 11, 2006, MSD announced an agreement with Gilead Sciences for the distribution of ATRIPLATM in developing countries around the world. ATRIPLATM is a once-daily, single tablet regimen for the treatment of HIV-1 infection in adults. ATRIPLATM contains 600 mg of efavirenz (STOCRIN) from MSD, combined with 200 mg of emtricitabine and 300 mg of tenofovir disoproxil fumarate (Truvada), from Gilead Sciences.
This developing world agreement covers 94 countries, including those 15 priority countries designated by George W. Bush under his 2004 President's Emergency Program For Aids Relief (PEPFAR).
•   For countries in the low HDI category and countries in the medium HDI category, with adult HIV prevalence of 1% or greater, ATRIPLA will be available to all purchasers at a price of US $613.20 per patient per year. Sixty-seven countries are eligible for this pricing.
•   For countries in the medium HDI category with adult HIV prevalence of less than 1%, ATRIPLA will be available to all purchasers at a price of US $1,032.95 per patient per year. Twenty-two countries are in this category.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Cliff

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #90 on: December 29, 2011, 09:15:41 AM »
fyi schmucks, I negotiated my landlord downward with that rent increase so it will only be slightly more than half of what he originally asked for. :-*
Excellent!!! 

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #91 on: January 04, 2012, 07:23:57 PM »
Back on topic... this thread link here to UrbanBaby should amuse everyone, especially the first post where a Manhattan resident claims that they feel poor on $700,000. Or the $2 million/yr person who feels middle class.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline newt

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #92 on: January 04, 2012, 07:47:54 PM »
If you have enough money to pay for your own funeral when you cop it, then you have enough money.

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline TonyDewitt

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #93 on: January 04, 2012, 07:50:33 PM »
Amen Matt - funerals ARE expensive!

Offline numbersguy82

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #94 on: January 04, 2012, 09:00:34 PM »
Interesting topic... I'm not sure if I've ever thought about what amount of money I would need to make/have to feel comfortable. I agree with some who have said that the more you have the more you spend. It's my experience that, me personally, as my income has increased or decreased then my enjoyment in life has adjusted accordinglly. I tend to be more of a "can't take it with me so go out and blow it on fun times with my friends" kind of guy eventhough I'm a budget analyst by trade, and fiscal responsibility is what I'm paid to practice. For me I save just enough of my income to have some padding, but prefer to enjoy my life in the now. I think my friends and co-workers would describe me as an extremely generous and charitable person. 

I'm not intending to live forever or truthfully even to 50. So in my opinion I would rather have some amazing memories and experiences now. I think part of wanting financial security is to take care of those people who rely on you in the event that something happens to you. I'm single and with no dependents so I think that urge to have a nest egg isn't as strong.

I also think HIV has played a role in this thinking because I have a greater sense of urgency to live and experience life now while I can. Who knows when health problems will plague me and start taking away my quality of life. A bit cynical but any one of us could die tomm. In short I think I need enough to have shelter, a mode of transportation, and without going to sleep hungry. I agree with Phil though... it would be a lot easier to live somewhere else other than Fort Lauderdale, but its a small price to pay to live in a place that I love.
8/10- 73 cd4, 7%, and 300k VL *First Labs*
9/10- Started Norvir, Prezista, and Truvada
10/10- 511 cd4, 22%, and 886 VL
12/10- 498 cd4, 22%, and 106 VL
3/11- 529 cd4, 29%, and 101 VL
8/11- 620 cd4, 30%, and 74 VL- Switched to Atripla
10/11- 580 ce4, 30%, and 62 VL
12/11- 684 cd4, 31%, and FINALLY *UD*

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #95 on: January 04, 2012, 10:00:14 PM »
Amen Matt - funerals ARE expensive!


Go with Direct Cremation it's only $600 to $800 US, it's clean cheap & easy, why spend over 10K on a Funeral
you would be better served donating  that to your loved ones, or any AIDS charity of your choice  ;)

"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline wolfter

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #96 on: January 05, 2012, 09:52:11 AM »
I tend to be more of a "can't take it with me so go out and blow it on fun times with my friends" kind of guy eventhough I'm a budget analyst by trade, and fiscal responsibility is what I'm paid to practice.
 

I had a nice chuckle reading this.  I was a budget analyst for the federal government at the former Newark Airforce Base.  I oversaw a $34 Million  annual budget and had a reputation for being uber conservative.  If my budget chief had ever looked into my personal finances, I'd have probably been demoted to a clerk position.  I'm great with others' money, just not my own.  I was fortunate to have a spouse who handled all of that. 

Wolfie
productivity breeds content

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #97 on: January 05, 2012, 10:50:57 AM »
I had a nice chuckle reading this.  I was a budget analyst for the federal government at the former Newark Airforce Base.  I oversaw a $34 Million  annual budget and had a reputation for being uber conservative.  If my budget chief had ever looked into my personal finances, I'd have probably been demoted to a clerk position.  I'm great with others' money, just not my own.  I was fortunate to have a spouse who handled all of that. 

Wolfie

Never trust anyone with your personal finances, I made the mistake of doing that with people I thought I could trust when I was in my late 20s & 30s I even had guys disguised as my BF, or someone I thought was
you have to be very careful, sometimes you just cannot trust people, as they will have their own hidden agenda, some people just aren't kind at all, and if your not paying attention, you will get taken to the fucking cleaners, like I have in the past  :(

Lesson learned for me, today I have my own credit cards & my own banking, my own car, and so does Bob, if we need each others help, were able to do so, but we keep every-thing on the personal finances level separate, that means no joint account, and we even save or own $$$ separately, and this works well for us, as we've been doing this for the last 18 yrs.  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Hoover

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #98 on: January 06, 2012, 04:44:51 PM »
Deb,

That is funny that you said you both keep your money separate.
A friend who has been married to a doctor for 35 years told me yesterday that they have always had separate accounts also.
I guess that is not uncommon.
Seventeen years ago when my husband stalked me and then I quickly moved into his place, I inherited his debt and his kids. We have always worked together and shared accounts/money. Never have we had an argument about money, but we also know we will never divorce. The other day our x-wife was talking to our adult son and she said,
"Son you know that Hoover will steal all the money when your father dies........" :o
After 17 years of working and living together 24/7 she thinks I own/deserve nothing.
Joke is on her, we decided years ago our kids/families have received all they need from us.
We will spend our money like it is our money and hopefully enjoy the time we have left.

Cheers,
Hoover and the Husband
Infection date: March 16, 2010
20/05/10 - CD4 348  VL 58,000  Lymph nodes in jaw painful!  Antioxidants started.
01/06/10 - CD4 428  VL?
24/06/10 - CD4 578  VL 9,800
13/07/10 - CD4 620  VL?
04/09/10 - CD4 648  VL?
01/11/10 - CD4 710  VL?   CD8 972
16/12/10    CD4 738  VL?  CD8  896   
02/02/11    CD4 520 (month of parasites and new lab)
14/03/11 started Truvida and Sustiva (Efavirenz)
04/07/11 CD4 686 VL 75 CD8 588  41%
10/10/11 CD4 757  45%  VL UD

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #99 on: January 06, 2012, 05:42:23 PM »
Funny story Hoover  ;D but I've learned to be that way, call me cynical, but my dear old mother always told me
"Son take care of your own dam business" but I didn't listen to that advice until 18 yrs ago when I met Bob, he feels the same as I do, as he's been taken to the cleaners before as well, you live & you learn I suppose  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Hoover

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #100 on: January 06, 2012, 06:10:20 PM »
Sorry about the bad stuff in yalls history.
Other than our x-wife trying to cause trouble, things are cool here.
I tell the husband that he better be good to me as he has no clue where funds are kept. He has no idea of the bank accounts or passwords. God knows I have tried to tell him, but he likes it this way. One of my sisters and our son know all the accounts to help him out if I get bit by a Terciopelo and die in our yard.
Funny how different people handle their lives together.

Cheers,
Hoover and what's his name ;D
Infection date: March 16, 2010
20/05/10 - CD4 348  VL 58,000  Lymph nodes in jaw painful!  Antioxidants started.
01/06/10 - CD4 428  VL?
24/06/10 - CD4 578  VL 9,800
13/07/10 - CD4 620  VL?
04/09/10 - CD4 648  VL?
01/11/10 - CD4 710  VL?   CD8 972
16/12/10    CD4 738  VL?  CD8  896   
02/02/11    CD4 520 (month of parasites and new lab)
14/03/11 started Truvida and Sustiva (Efavirenz)
04/07/11 CD4 686 VL 75 CD8 588  41%
10/10/11 CD4 757  45%  VL UD

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #101 on: January 06, 2012, 07:04:43 PM »
Sorry about the bad stuff in yalls history.

Cheers,
Hoover and what's his name ;D

Well, it's not really bad, we were young, and before we actually met each other is when all this stuff happened to us, it's a hard lesson, but never-the-less a lesson learned to say the least, I'm sure everyone
in this forum (are those who have to balls to admit it) has been taken to the cleaners in one form or another in their lifetime, be careful who you trust, there is a lotta TAKERS OUT THERE  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline numbersguy82

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #102 on: January 06, 2012, 10:28:09 PM »
I had a nice chuckle reading this.  I was a budget analyst for the federal government at the former Newark Airforce Base.  I oversaw a $34 Million  annual budget and had a reputation for being uber conservative.  If my budget chief had ever looked into my personal finances, I'd have probably been demoted to a clerk position.  I'm great with others' money, just not my own.  I was fortunate to have a spouse who handled all of that. 

Wolfie

HAHA wow what are the odds. Maybe its a requirement for the job is to be completely crazy with your own personal finances so that we can focus all of our energies at work LOL. It's nice to meet someone else from that field, what a coincidence  ;)
8/10- 73 cd4, 7%, and 300k VL *First Labs*
9/10- Started Norvir, Prezista, and Truvada
10/10- 511 cd4, 22%, and 886 VL
12/10- 498 cd4, 22%, and 106 VL
3/11- 529 cd4, 29%, and 101 VL
8/11- 620 cd4, 30%, and 74 VL- Switched to Atripla
10/11- 580 ce4, 30%, and 62 VL
12/11- 684 cd4, 31%, and FINALLY *UD*

Offline Ann

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #103 on: January 07, 2012, 03:56:08 AM »
I've always kept my money separate in a relationship too. The only slight exception was when I was married. We both had our separate accounts, but we had one joint account for shared bill paying (ie rent, utilities etc) into which we both deposited a set amount each month. It worked great.

I was always the one to sit down and write the cheques each month. I can't remember the last time I paid a bill by cheque - the bills I have now I either pay online or in cash, in person.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline numbersguy82

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #104 on: January 07, 2012, 09:52:15 AM »
I've always kept my money separate in a relationship too. The only slight exception was when I was married. We both had our separate accounts, but we had one joint account for shared bill paying (ie rent, utilities etc) into which we both deposited a set amount each month. It worked great.

I was always the one to sit down and write the cheques each month. I can't remember the last time I paid a bill by cheque - the bills I have now I either pay online or in cash, in person.

Agreed Ann... I think it's a wise decision to keep personal finances seperate. I think in this day and age there is nothing wrong with keeping a joint account for shared bills, but maintaining your own nest egg on the side. At this point I don't know if I would ever live with a man again. I love my independence and freedom that goes along with seperate spaces. It's 2012 afterall and we are all suffering from a disease that, lets face it, is expensive to maintain. We owe it to ourselves and our health to be responsible enough to ensure our medical needs are taken care of and that means having our own money on the side somewhere.
8/10- 73 cd4, 7%, and 300k VL *First Labs*
9/10- Started Norvir, Prezista, and Truvada
10/10- 511 cd4, 22%, and 886 VL
12/10- 498 cd4, 22%, and 106 VL
3/11- 529 cd4, 29%, and 101 VL
8/11- 620 cd4, 30%, and 74 VL- Switched to Atripla
10/11- 580 ce4, 30%, and 62 VL
12/11- 684 cd4, 31%, and FINALLY *UD*

Offline bocker3

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #105 on: January 07, 2012, 12:41:46 PM »
Here is a bit of a twist......

Sid and I have combined just about all our finances.  We kept them separate for the first 10 yrs or so.  We have combined for a number of reasons, it's easier to manage, etc.  However, one big reason is that by having us listed together on the accounts, if one of us dies the money automatically goes to the other.  Our accounts are jointly owned with right of survivorship (or some such wording).  This way, there is little chance of monies getting caught up in any estate battle with the "legal" family.
Yes, we have all the right legal documents together, but that doesn't stop someone from stepping in and contesting things.  Even if our docs help us prevail, it could tie up the estate for months or years.  Having our checking and saving accounts always accessible to each other takes that worry away.  It's also why I make sure that my life insurance policy (gotten while still neg) gets paid automatically -- this won't go through probate either, but directly to Sid.  Because there is such a mismatch in our earnings, I need to make sure that Sid is protected if something happens to me -- so that he wouldn't lose the house and everything we've built together over these 21+ years.
I think it is wise to be cautious, especially early in a relationship -- but caution also comes with a potential "price".

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #106 on: January 07, 2012, 12:57:16 PM »
Here is a bit of a twist......


Mike

Mike, that's a good idea for the both of you guys, you are a home owner w/ real property, and kids, so YES, you have to do everything possible to protect that, however Bob & I don't own anything, and we don't possess any real property, both  of our families don't care or even want any of our stuff which has little to no value to anyone.....

Bob & I like it that way , we both have life Ins. and both of us are the sole beneficiaries as well as medical power of attorney if any of us should need to pull the plug (so to speak) we both have a DNR order in our medical records, so @ least we took care of the basics , were glad that things aren't or won't be legally complicated for us in the end, it's all taken care of ( so to speak)  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Hoover

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #107 on: January 07, 2012, 01:13:52 PM »
Mike,

We are in the same boat, everything was placed in corporations we own to protect the other from that 3rd cousin or closer family member that decides to claim the dead partner's properties.
Even our kids do not have claim to any of our belongings.
The things we built and saved will not be taken from the other after one of us dies.

Also here in CR, the lawyer gets 20% of the estate for just writing a will.
(they don't mention that one!)
No wills here, just partnership in accounts and corporations.
Infection date: March 16, 2010
20/05/10 - CD4 348  VL 58,000  Lymph nodes in jaw painful!  Antioxidants started.
01/06/10 - CD4 428  VL?
24/06/10 - CD4 578  VL 9,800
13/07/10 - CD4 620  VL?
04/09/10 - CD4 648  VL?
01/11/10 - CD4 710  VL?   CD8 972
16/12/10    CD4 738  VL?  CD8  896   
02/02/11    CD4 520 (month of parasites and new lab)
14/03/11 started Truvida and Sustiva (Efavirenz)
04/07/11 CD4 686 VL 75 CD8 588  41%
10/10/11 CD4 757  45%  VL UD

Offline bocker3

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #108 on: January 07, 2012, 01:50:43 PM »
Mike, that's a good idea for the both of you guys, you are a home owner w/ real property, and kids, so YES, you have to do everything possible to protect that, however Bob & I don't own anything, and we don't possess any real property, both  of our families don't care or even want any of our stuff which has little to no value to anyone.....

Bob & I like it that way , we both have life Ins. and both of us are the sole beneficiaries as well as medical power of attorney if any of us should need to pull the plug (so to speak) we both have a DNR order in our medical records, so @ least we took care of the basics , were glad that things aren't or won't be legally complicated for us in the end, it's all taken care of ( so to speak)  ;)

I want to be clear -- I'm not saying our way is the better way -- I was just giving another view.
As for the house -- that is something that could get litigated if anyone in my family decided to do so.  It is in my name, because I initially bought it with a VA loan and could not use that benefit with a "non-spouse".  When I refinanced to a conventional mortgage a few years back if I added Sid there would have been a giant "gift" tax due -- so the house remains solely in my name.
My larger concern was around our cash assets.  If I die, they instantly become only his.  No one can really tie that up in court.  Of course, I suppose ANYTHING could be litigated, so we have already talked about being sure to move most of the cash out of the joint accounts and into new "single" accounts upon a death. 
In the end - many don't like to talk about these sorts of things, but there probably isn't a more important conversation for long-term couples.  Losing one of us would be devastating enough to the other, without then having to deal with a potential lack of cash too.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline leatherman

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #109 on: January 07, 2012, 04:47:21 PM »
but there probably isn't a more important conversation for long-term couples.
except for the added discussion about living wills and medical power of attnry (which in my case, of having poverty-stricken partners, has always been more important in the end than any money matters)  ;)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #110 on: January 07, 2012, 05:19:40 PM »
I suppose ANYTHING could be litigated
Mike

True, all of this to me sounds very complicated and I've seen things go south rather quickly in these matters
where as the police had to be called, and few arrest were made, it's not a very good situation for anyone....

but hey, at least your thinking ahead as far as all of your family members & of course Sid, if something should happen to you, always good to have a solid plain of action, but, no matter what you really do, someone will always end up unhappy, you simply cannot please each & every one of them....

when it comes to property & $$$ I've seen people do some really rude stuff to each other, and not in a good way at all..... I'm glad you though all of this thur  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline newt

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #111 on: January 07, 2012, 06:40:43 PM »
Well this thread prompted me to make a will, and "what little I have" turned out to be possibly more when I am dead (a flat is flat, right, and you can live in it...). It  is amazing the complexities of this, like what ifs? But is done, and some of the scenarios were not nice to think about. Solicitor was ace, thought of at least 3 unlikely scenarios I hadn't. UK people, married or not, if you have £2-500 and a house/mortgage/passable tenancy rights, go spend the money and make a will.
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Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #112 on: January 07, 2012, 06:53:48 PM »
Well this thread prompted me to make a will
A will is good, if you've got something as a tangible assett and want to leave it to a loved one...

Both Bob & I are 55 yrs old, and in poor health, we don't have any children, don't own anything, and aren't obligated to anyone for anything, and we don't want the rest of our life to be complicated
in any way, we like our life together, and wouldn't change a thing...our life is good  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline bocker3

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #113 on: January 07, 2012, 07:38:51 PM »
except for the added discussion about living wills and medical power of attnry (which in my case, of having poverty-stricken partners, has always been more important in the end than any money matters)  ;)

True....  I was bunching all that together in my comment -- without ever stating it, so thanks for pointing that out. 

A will is good, if you've got something as a tangible assett and want to leave it to a loved one...

Both Bob & I are 55 yrs old, and in poor health, we don't have any children, don't own anything, and aren't obligated to anyone for anything, and we don't want the rest of our life to be complicated
in any way, we like our life together, and wouldn't change a thing...our life is good  ;)
Dying without a will -- even if one is "poor" can still leave major headaches for the surviving partner.  Upon your death, without a will, "legally" everything of yours conveys to your next of kin (that being the "legal" kin).  So, it is possible that a partner still loses whateve you may have -- including sentimental items -- if a family member jumps in. 
Without a legal document stating that your partner has final say on what happens to your remains, you might have family brought in anyway -- the "authorities" may look to them for this guidance and ignore your partner.
 
It is still so amazing to me that so many folks don't get how important legal recognition of our relationships really is -- just the legal hassles that ensue without it.  Letting us "marry" would instantly remove the bulk of these idiotic hassles.

Mike
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Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #114 on: January 07, 2012, 07:55:55 PM »
True....  I was bunching all that together in my comment -- without ever stating it, so thanks for pointing that out. 
Dying without a will -- even if one is "poor" can still leave major headaches for the surviving partner.  Upon your death, without a will, "legally" everything of yours conveys to your next of kin (that being the "legal" kin).  So, it is possible that a partner still loses whateve you may have -- including sentimental items -- if a family member jumps in. 
Without a legal document stating that your partner has final say on what happens to your remains, you might have family brought in anyway -- the "authorities" may look to them for this guidance and ignore your partner.

If I should die, Bob doesn't loose anything except me & my income, my Twin Sister isn't interested in anything we don't have she makes over 300K a yr. so she doesn't care... his family lives 2,000 miles
away, and they aren't interested in anything Bob doesn't have....we have NOTHING to take, it go's where ever hopefully the goodwill or something like that...... not even our life Ins. can be detested, we checked
it's such a small amount anyway ( under 5K each)

[/quote]
 
It is still so amazing to me that so many folks don't get how important legal recognition of our relationships really is -- just the legal hassles that ensue without it.  Letting us "marry" would instantly remove the bulk of these idiotic hassles.

Mike
[/quote]

YES I agree, that would help somewhat and make all of this less messy in the end  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline leatherman

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #115 on: January 08, 2012, 12:29:29 AM »
True....  I was bunching all that together in my comment -- without ever stating it, so thanks for pointing that out. 
I knew you understood Mike ;), I just wanted to point out since everyone was talking about house-ownership and money, that even without those factors there are legal hassles that need paperwork to help the surviving partner in simply dealing with the medical needs of the soon-to-be-deceased partner.

It is still so amazing to me that so many folks don't get how important legal recognition of our relationships really is -- just the legal hassles that ensue without it.  Letting us "marry" would instantly remove the bulk of these idiotic hassles.
Amen to that!

Dying without a will -- even if one is "poor" can still leave major headaches for the surviving partner.   ...
.
ain't that the truth? Being poor leaves no room for leeway. Instead of worrying about whose children may play vulture and come circling in for the house and money while an estate goes to probate, there's the concern about what the heck to do now with that partner's portion of the monthly income gone - like keeping the utilities on, the rent/mortgage paid, food in the cupboards and whether the vehicle will be repossessed and/or whether one will have to move before the end of the month has come. :o
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Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #116 on: January 08, 2012, 10:52:35 AM »
there's the concern about what the heck to do now with that partner's portion of the monthly income gone - like keeping the utilities on, the rent/mortgage paid, food in the cupboards and whether the vehicle will be repossessed and/or whether one will have to move before the end of the month has come. :o

I never had to worry about such things when my last BF died, all I lost was his income, I was still able to keep everything going, utilities, rent/mortgage, food in the cupboards and the vehicle was in my name, after about a month or two, I was able to find Bob, he had an income, and his own vehicle, has own money, his own banking his own credit cards, so he moved-in, and told me "hey you need the help so be thankful" and I like you your a very nice honest guy , so here we are almost 18 yrs later  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline MitchMiller

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #117 on: January 15, 2012, 02:59:34 AM »

Offline Ann

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #118 on: January 15, 2012, 06:31:35 AM »

This will tell you how much you need to retire:


I don't need AARP to tell me how much I need to retire, I need to retire very, very much - preferably to a beach-front house in Hawaii.
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Offline denb45

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #119 on: January 15, 2012, 02:42:10 PM »
This will tell you how much you need to retire:

http://www.aarp.org/work/retirement-planning/retirement_calculator/?intcmp=HP-link1-spot1

Funny you mention AARP. both Bob & I think that is the biggest farce ever, and when we get anything in the mail from AARP we just run it thur the paper-shredder, Bob did have AARP a few yrs ago, and ended up burning his AARP card in effigy  ;D
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #120 on: July 01, 2012, 02:49:52 AM »
I have to agree with Jeff - it is subjective -
I work full time and make a fairly good salary with good benefits; however, South Florida can be an expensive place to live.



South Florida is much cheaper than say north NJ.  You'd be lucky to find a studio in Newark for $750 but you can find a small one bedroom apartment just a little north of Fort Lauderdale 3 blocks from the beach for $750.  You can find a decent bigger apartment for $650 a few miles from the beach.  (basically all of south Florida is a few miles from the beach) You might find something even cheaper if you are willing to live in a studio, or efficiency as they call it here.   There are cheaper states to live in, but as far as a major metropolitan area, and especially with a gay scene, south Florida is one of the cheapest to live.

Luckily growing up we didn't have a lot of money so I know how to live within my means,  we weren't so poor that we couldn't afford food or clothing or shelter, but we didn't vacation, besides weekend day trips to the beach or lake in the summer.   A friend of mine grew up upper middle class and I just told him he doesn't know how to live like a poor person.  If he gets extra money like a tax return or some commission money from a job he left his first instinct is to spend it rather than saving it.  One time he said he had only a few dollars on his debit card left for the month and one time he said he only had 35 cents on him.  :-[

I really have to get my S together.  Now is the time that the relatives are getting older and I will have to drive back  or fly 1300 miles when one passes away to attend the funerals.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 03:01:11 AM by LiveWithIt »
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Offline elf

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Re: How much money is really enough?
« Reply #121 on: July 01, 2012, 03:25:44 PM »
I don't need AARP to tell me how much I need to retire, I need to retire very, very much - preferably to a beach-front house in Hawaii.
good choice  ;)
Let's have a Kiki!

 


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