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Author Topic: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+  (Read 3628 times)

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Offline edfu

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Offline Theyer

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2011, 09:28:49 AM »
Thanks edfu.
The progression off this fact has been interesting to me. From 12 years ago in a support group each time I have had an extended stay in Hospital to now reading these studies. plus of course living with 3 'aging conditions '
mhtv
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Offline aztecan

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2011, 10:14:05 AM »
This has been the topic of discussion among many of us LTS.

The question is what do we do about it, or, rather, is there anything that we can do about it?

Rather like the good old days, eh? Back when we didn't have a clue what to do next?

HUGS,

Mark
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~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline leatherman

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2011, 10:34:54 AM »
The question is what do we do about it, or, rather, is there anything that we can do about it?
the suggestions in that report were not anything that "we" (as in you and I and the LTSs) could about it; but things others could do about it - like take anti-inflammation meds (ie aspirin) and start HAART earlier.

as I had a pretty low cd4 nadir, am allergic to aspirin, and really didn't start that AZT soon enough  :D,
I think I'm screwed and just gone to be getting older faster. LOL
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


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Offline denb45

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2011, 11:02:06 AM »
Why, I don't look a day over 45  :D and I'm gonna be 55 in about a week and 1/2, I stopped worrying about my age when I turned 50, after that I knew I was invisible to the rest of the world , what can we do about this, here's a short answer NOTHING
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Offline AlanBama

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2011, 12:28:06 PM »
you're right Dennis (and we are the same age, BTW)

I read all of this info, but it seems there's not a whole lot any of us can DO about it, except to try to eat well, exercise, rest, just the usual common sense stuff.
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline Theyer

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2011, 03:08:09 PM »
On my 54 birthday I got  a over 60 cheap cinema ticket.
one must find ones compensations if one can and not listen to old time friends who said that would off happen,d anyway.
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Offline aztecan

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2011, 11:42:45 PM »
Why, I don't look a day over 45  :D and I'm gonna be 55 in about a week and 1/2, I stopped worrying about my age when I turned 50, after that I knew I was invisible to the rest of the world , what can we do about this, here's a short answer NOTHING

I agree completely about not worrying about looking older. I am just a smidge younger than you  ::)  , but I vividly remember turning 50 and suddenly becoming transparent.
Come to think of it, Alan, we were together in San Fransico that year. Poor children didn't know what they missed when they overlooked us! ;)

My only concern is not dropping dead from a heart attack before I am 67. My goal is to live longer than my father did, and he died at 66 of his third heart attacki.

Aside from that, I will take my AARP discounts whenever I can.  ;D

HUGS,

Mark
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Offline edfu

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2011, 03:03:56 AM »
I read all of this info, but it seems there's not a whole lot any of us can DO about it, except to try to eat well, exercise, rest, just the usual common sense stuff.

Agreed, but we must also be proactive and INSIST that our doctors provide essential diagnostic tests and care before the usually accepted age-related period.  We must demand appropriate anal-dysplasia tests, DEXA tests, cardiovascular tests, etc.  As this linked report says:

“Our findings suggest that an aggressive approach to the screening, diagnosis, and treatment of non-infectious comorbidities is warranted as part of the routine healthcare for HIV-infected patients. Our data suggest that onset of such screening should commence at a substantially earlier age for HIV-infected persons, compared with HIV-uninfected persons, possibly at least a decade in advance.”
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Offline BT65

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2011, 04:59:41 AM »
I"ve been taking Ibuprofen twice-thrice times a day for years, wonder if that will help me.  Otherwise, I do have diabetes, Insulin dependent.  And I was on a statin, but stopped it when I changed combos (it was causing severe cramps anyway); my doctor also wrote me out a prescription for one of the osteoporosis meds after a bone scan, but I've never gotten it filled.  I just take Calcium. 

Other than that, I take about 13 or 14 different meds, which totals out to about 24-25 pills a day, plus an injection of Insulin at night, and fast acting Insulin if my bloodsugar gets a little high.  It's just something else to deal with I suppose.  Like has been said, what are we to do? 
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Offline leatherman

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2011, 11:55:50 AM »
Our data suggest that onset of such screening should commence at a substantially earlier age for HIV-infected persons, compared with HIV-uninfected persons, possibly at least a decade in advance.”
Good point.

This was not really a report about what HIV+ people, as an older crowd with HIV longer, can do; but what HIV+ people, as an older crowd, are experiencing. The result is not about what that group can do about the problems they already have; but what others can do as prevention from having these same issues. Some of us, as LTSs older and dealing with HIV longer, are just stuck with the problem because this damage is already done.

however the positive take-away from this study is that those younger, more recently infected, and newer to medications should get more screenings earlier, possibly take anti-inflamatory medications, and start HAART sooner, so they don't have these issues as much as they age.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


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Offline denb45

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2011, 12:46:19 PM »
Agreed, but we must also be proactive and INSIST that our doctors provide essential diagnostic tests and care before the usually accepted age-related period.  We must demand appropriate anal-dysplasia tests, DEXA tests, cardiovascular tests, etc.  As this linked report says:



Good Point, but I live in New Mexico, and my ID Doctor told me, that ("If you want such a test for anal-dysplasia tests, DEXA /HPV") you won't get that here, you'll have to go to NYC, LA or S.F. we just don't have that here  ??? being pro-active is great , but unfortunately it won't always get you whatever test may you want, so I'm kinda limited here, and cannot afford any of this (going outta my health-care-network)
really isn't a option for me  ???
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Offline Theyer

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2011, 02:02:43 PM »
One area where I think this should have ramifications is in benefit / social care assessments. And long term planning .
Though I am not clear if this will only affect our genration off LTS
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Offline David_CA

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2011, 02:45:23 PM »
Of course, we have people like my Dr (lots of long-term experience in treating HIV) saying that other than side effects, we're no different than HIV- people.  Many already have issues caused by HIV / OI's pre-HAART or pre-meds that can't be remedied; I guess he forgot to include those, too. 
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Offline denb45

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2011, 08:05:23 PM »
Of course, we have people like my Dr (lots of long-term experience in treating HIV) saying that other than side effects, we're no different than HIV- people.  Many already have issues caused by HIV / OI's pre-HAART or pre-meds that can't be remedied; I guess he forgot to include those, too. 

Yeah, I was kinda thinking that too, my ID Doctor isn't that bad, she always tells me "Dennis you are very healthy for a person that has had HIV/AIDS for as long as you have, you don't have warts, you don't have
all the little nasty things that come for unprotected sex, and all of these tests you think you need you DON'T"

Your Kidneys aren't all that great, and your GI-disease is @ least treatable, you take care of yourself, your UD and have been for the last 6 to 7 yrs. so STOP worrying about all of these things, if you need tests, I will give you them, it's my job to keep you healthy and to keep your HIV/AIDS under control..... your already doing your part, so let me do mine PLEASE  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline mpositive

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2011, 06:54:47 AM »
My doc say the same thing to me Dennis....except that I need to lose a LOT of weight.  MY biggest challenge.  Funny comment he made last visit, he said "you look great on paper!"  lol.

Offline Ann

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2011, 10:09:59 AM »
For those of you who don't read the LTS forum, Edfu linked to a recent article over at aidsmap about cataracts possibly being an hiv early ageing issue.

HIV-positive patients are signficantly more likely to undergo surgery to remove cataracts in the eye, according to Danish research published in Clinical Infectious Diseases. A low CD4 cell count before and after the initiation of antiretroviral therapy was associated with cataracts, but there was no evidence that any individual anti-HIV drug was associated with an elevated risk of the condition.

Cataracts are cloudy patches that develop on the lens of the eye, either as a result of ageing or as a long-term consequence of viral infections and inflammation affecting the eye. Long-term corticosteroid treatment may also raise the risk of cataract development.

The investigators suggest that cataracts may be one of the “diseases of ageing” associated with HIV. They add that doctors should be aware of the condition, “however, taking the level of excess risk into consideration, there seems to be no indication for special ophthalmic examinations for cataracts or changes in treatment strategies.”
read more

Another reason why we pozzies should have periodic eye exams, even if you're not someone who needs glasses.
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Offline aztecan

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2011, 12:37:25 PM »
For those of you who don't read the LTS forum, Edfu linked to a recent article over at aidsmap about cataracts possibly being an hiv early ageing issue.

HIV-positive patients are significantly more likely to undergo surgery to remove cataracts in the eye, according to Danish research published in Clinical Infectious Diseases. A low CD4 cell count before and after the initiation of antiretroviral therapy was associated with cataracts, but there was no evidence that any individual anti-HIV drug was associated with an elevated risk of the condition.

Cataracts are cloudy patches that develop on the lens of the eye, either as a result of ageing or as a long-term consequence of viral infections and inflammation affecting the eye. Long-term corticosteroid treatment may also raise the risk of cataract development.

The investigators suggest that cataracts may be one of the diseases of ageing associated with HIV. They add that doctors should be aware of the condition, “however, taking the level of excess risk into consideration, there seems to be no indication for special ophthalmic examinations for cataracts or changes in treatment strategies.”
read more

Another reason why we pozzies should have periodic eye exams, even if you're not someone who needs glasses.

I already have cataracts, but not serious enough to remove yet. But, they are also endemic where I live, caused by exposure to a lot of bright sun, or so they tell me at the opthamologist's office.

But I disagree regarding pozzies being no more prone to rapid aging than their negative counter parts.

Many of us, including me, have been living with the inflammation caused by constant immune system activation for more than two decades. Think of revving your car engine constantly for years. Things just wear out faster.

In our case, as the Italian study indicates, we are at greater risk of noninfectious co-morbidities. How much at risk will, I believe, vary greatly, just as our response to HIV and HIV treatment varies greatly.

I have three out of four indicators myself. I have had HIV for more than 25 years, my first meds were the "golden oldies," and I have lipodystrophy (specifically lipohypertrophy),

The only one I missed was having a CD4 nadir of less than 200.

I also believe our individual medical and family medical histories play a part.

I guess the bottom line is to know thyself. If you know there is a history of heart conditions in your family, as well as hyperlipidemia, hypertension, etc., it behooves each of us to do what we can to stave off these problems.

If only makes sense. If we know we have a propensity for these problems to begin with, and are also aware that living long-term with HIV, plus the other things, can hasten the development of those problems, then we should be taking action on our own to derail the process.

At least, that is what I think we should do.

HUGS,

Mark
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 12:44:11 PM by aztecan »
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2011, 12:44:38 PM »
... yet at the same time some of you are eternally pining to see your doctor only once annually
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Offline aztecan

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2011, 12:47:39 PM »
I see mine at least twice a week.

Of course, its not about anything related to me , , ,

HUGS,

Mark
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Offline denb45

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2011, 01:07:10 PM »
... yet at the same time some of you are eternally pining to see your doctor only once annually

I have to agree with you there, seeing your doctor(s) once annually really isn't enough, I see my doctor(s) all 3 of them @ least 3 times a yr. not too sure, but I think THIS is required to keep my Access & Ryan White
current, also, I'm not really in that great of health, like most of you working stiffs might be  :)
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Offline OneTampa

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2011, 06:19:00 PM »
I have a regularly scheduled appointment with my eye doctor in 2 weeks.
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Offline buginme2

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2011, 12:35:10 PM »
News article today states HIV Patients on HARRT have a Plethora of Ocular Diseases.

Cataracts are occuring at a "Much younger age"

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/752667


Offline elf

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2011, 07:40:30 PM »
To combat the rapid aging: take melatonin, selenium, vitamin-C , omega-3 and olive oil (apply olive oil on your skin too)
To combat sub-clinical infection: take low dose aspirin
To combat/prevent cataract: take statins
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 07:44:09 PM by elf »
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Offline aztecan

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2011, 11:06:32 PM »
To combat the rapid aging: take melatonin, selenium, vitamin-C , omega-3 and olive oil (apply olive oil on your skin too)
To combat sub-clinical infection: take low dose aspirin
To combat/prevent cataract: take statins


Well, I have been taking selenium since 1992, when my doctor back then recommended it, mainly because there wasn't much else we could do.

I would fall asleep if I took melatonin, but do take some vitamin C. I take 6 grams of fish oil and use olive oil liberally in many dishes.

I take a full-strength aspirin to stave off the flushing from Niaspan,

I can't take statins - ever. They cause serious side effects for me and mu CPKs are abnormally elevated to begin with.

So, I already do a lot of what you suggest, but I still have problems.

HUGS,

Mark
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Offline DiggerDive

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2011, 11:44:57 PM »
I didn't plan on aging when I was negative and I'm not taking part now that I'm positive.  Simple as that.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2011, 12:21:10 AM »
I didn't plan on aging when I was negative and I'm not taking part now that I'm positive.  Simple as that.

Lemme know how that works out.
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Offline edfu

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2011, 12:39:21 AM »
I didn't plan on aging when I was negative and I'm not taking part now that I'm positive.  Simple as that.

You might as well say you didn't plan on dying then or now. 
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Offline elf

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2011, 08:16:50 PM »
Well, I have been taking selenium since 1992, when my doctor back then recommended it, mainly because there wasn't much else we could do.

I would fall asleep if I took melatonin, but do take some vitamin C. I take 6 grams of fish oil and use olive oil liberally in many dishes.

I take a full-strength aspirin to stave off the flushing from Niaspan,

I can't take statins - ever. They cause serious side effects for me and mu CPKs are abnormally elevated to begin with.

So, I already do a lot of what you suggest, but I still have problems.

HUGS,

Mark

You can take melatonin before going to bed.  :)

I just ordered Can-C Carnosine Eye Drops.
I've gotten myopia in these 3 years of being HIVpositive, and sudden myopia may be a 1st sign of cataract.
So, these drops might help.  :)
Melatonin might be effective against cataract too: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18556977


Some supplements work, some don't. Resveratrol and turmeric are useless because their concentration is extremely low even when enormous doses are taken. Lycopene in a hot tomato soup is more readily available than lycopene in pills.
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Diseases of Aging Occur 10-15 Years Earlier in HIV+
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2011, 08:56:07 PM »
You can take melatonin before going to bed.  :)

I just ordered Can-C Carnosine Eye Drops.
I've gotten myopia in these 3 years of being HIVpositive, and sudden myopia may be a 1st sign of cataract.
So, these drops might help.  :)
Melatonin might be effective against cataract too: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18556977


Some supplements work, some don't. Resveratrol and turmeric are useless because their concentration is extremely low even when enormous doses are taken. Lycopene in a hot tomato soup is more readily available than lycopene in pills.


Uh, you seriously think you're getting cataracts from HIV after being positive for 3 years and at the age of only 31?
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