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Author Topic: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP  (Read 18417 times)

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Offline collegekid

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Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« on: October 23, 2011, 06:32:01 PM »
Hi,

Thank you for taking the time to answer this question. I am certain I now have HIV and I cannot stop thinking about it. Two weeks ago I met a guy at a bar of unknown status who was overly aggressive and tried to bareback me and partially inserted his penis for 5-10 seconds. I had not bottomed in a long time and it hurt so I pulled out and told him to get a condom (he didn't have one) so I left. I then used the bathroom and noticed some bleeding from my anus and soreness that lasted only a day. I started PEP (Combivir and Viread) 15 hours after the exposure. I have not missed any doses, but have been off by an hour or two on one or two doses. Recently (two weeks post exposure) I got a low grade fever (101 degrees that went down to around 99 over the course of 3 days), muscle ache, diarrhea (could be from PEP?) and mouth ulcers. I am afraid this is ARS given the timing and symptoms. Please tell me my risk for HIV, I plan on testing at the four week, six week and three month intervals. I read that there is only a 3% infection rate for unprotected receptive anal sex. But I only had brief penetration with no ejaculation and I started PEP. I am just afraid that the bleeding increased my risk exponentially. Is this why am I getting ARS? Please help!! Thank you

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2011, 06:33:43 PM »
Also, I read that the average time to seroconversion is 22 days. Does that mean that ARS symptoms occur around 22 days or that ARS symptoms occur before 22 days?

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2011, 06:40:48 PM »
Yes, the average time to seroconversion is 22 days. ARS symptoms show up during seroconversion. But keep in mind that sometimes ARS symptoms are so slight as to not even be noticeable.

Meanwhile there is nothing about the symptoms which you are reporting which are HIV specific. Despite your understandable concern, the odds are in your favor against HIV transmission this time. The insertion was for only one time and was very, very brief without ejaculation.

In terms of testing, you have to wait until 6 weeks from completing PEP to test iniitally. If you test negative then the likelihood is you will continue to test negative at 3 months. All but the very smallest number of those who are going to seroconvert will do so within 4-6 weeks after an exposure to the virus.

Good luck and keep busy with other things while you are waiting to test. It will really help to pass the waiting time.
Andy Velez

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2011, 06:47:40 PM »
Andy, thank you so much for the fast reply! I cannot help but think of it lately and I am actually failing to attend my classes because I am fraught with stress. You say I need to get a 6-week preliminary test after completing PEP which would be 10 weeks after exposure. I am not sure I can wait that long. Would a 6-week post exposure test not be encouraging if negative?

Also, can I confirm that assuming he was positive, with precum and my bleeding that my risk is very low?

Thank you I really hope I can focus on my midterms now instead of this. I can't even think of ever having penetrative sex again.

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2011, 06:49:48 PM »
Also, to add on assuming he was positive, given my bleeding, and he had pressed his penis against my anus for a few seconds before trying to penetrate--possibly spreading precum. Given all this and my pep would you still say I have a low risk?

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2011, 06:57:01 PM »
My responses are always made with the assumption that the other person is HIV positive.

Listen, you can test as early as you want to. And of course any negative result is encouraging. But for a conclusive negative result, you will need to test at 3 months after completing PEP.

I know you're trying to nail down something more specific in the way of an answer and that's very understandable. You just have to work really hard at focusing on your classes and your schoolwork. I know that's easier said than done, but it can be done and doing it will make your waiting time go much more easily than you imagine possible at this moment.

And yes, I would consider your risk to be on the lower side as I have detailed.

Now, make a cup of tea or something like that and crack those books. Really.
Andy Velez

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2011, 07:01:35 PM »
Thank you, Andy. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer this. I have been literally isolated and cut off from friends and school being depressed about this. Okay, time to change. I'll go get studying on my midterms and try to forget about it. I'm guessing by the low risk you mentioned when I go test in a few weeks you are expecting a negative for me? Thank you so much again, Andy.

P.S. Last question: I promise. I've read conflicting reports on PEPs efficacy. Is it 81%, 99%, 0%?

Okay, seriously going to stop googling symptoms and study for my tests. This is going to be hard.


Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2011, 07:15:38 PM »
You're welcome. I understand it is hard to be getting through this time without the benefit of some support. But you can do it. Even if you feel overwhelmed at this moment, your life is going to go on. Really.

We don't like to guessing percentages. PEP has a good record for efficacy and the earlier it is begun the better. You started it very early so that's another major plus in your favor.

Yah, lay off of googling for symptoms because that's bad for your health. Really. Get to your books and make yourself a nice cuppa something sensible to drink while you're doing that.

I'm betting you're going to come out of this ok.
Andy Velez

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2011, 07:18:03 PM »
Thank you! This is the most relieved I've felt in weeks. If someone with your experience expects a negative, I'll stop thinking about it.

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2011, 12:36:41 PM »
Andy, its been four days now with a headache, pressure in my head, dizziness, and all around I feel like I have a fever. However, my temperature is consistently only around 99.5. Is this consistent with ARS? It's been 2 weeks since exposure. My throat lymph nodes are slightly enlarged and I still have loose stools. Are these side effects from Viread and Combivir? Or is this a sign of ARS? Thank you!

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2011, 01:01:19 PM »
The symptoms you report are all consistent with dude effects from the extremely powerful drugs you are taking.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2011, 01:20:19 PM »
Jkinatl2,

Would you also agree that my exposure risk was very low and you are expecting me to test negative? I've been reading the forums and previous advice given to people who had receptive anal sex with brief exposure from say a broken condom for a few seconds was that the risk was extremely low and that a negative result was expected. What worries me is that I had bleeding, but would my risk not be comparable to a condom break? Would you agree I have a very low possibility of contracting HIV and that I should test negative? Thank you for the help!

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2011, 01:23:08 PM »
Also, the low grade fever is what worries me the most. I am waiting axiously until the 22 day mark (avg seroconversion) to see if I develop a severe sore throat or rash.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2011, 02:36:44 PM »
I totally concur with Andy in that your risk was on the lower side of the spectrum. That, combines with your taking PEP, makes me rather confident that you will be totally OK. The low grade fever is consistent with side effects of the drugs. Some people have seriously horrific side effects, and it's good that you are not one of them.

Of course, for people who take those drugs to control HIV, those side effects often go away after six to eight weeks. Luckily your regimen is for a month only.

You have to realize that seroconversion illness is NOT caused directly by HIV. It is the body's attempt to purge the virus by developing antibodies. That's why the symptoms are usually REALLY hard to define, as this process varies from person to person.

That is why it is recommended that you re-start your clock for testing when you finish the PEP, as you are stifling any potential virus (not that I think there is any) and disallowing your body to produce antibodies. It would be VERY VERY VERY unusual (unheard of, really) to undergo seroconversion illness WHILE taking PEP, because your body would not produce antibodies against a virus it cannot detect.

Yes it sucks that you have to wait an extra month to get a definitive test. But I am confident that you are going to be OK. Even if the guy who penetrated you WAS HIV positive and had a soaring viral load (neither of these things are certain) your timing for PEP was spot-on, and PEP is an extremely effective treatment.

As I said, I have confidence that you will be ok.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2011, 02:42:25 PM »
Thank you for the very thorough and long response. Also, I started taking PEP 15 hours post exposure at 5pm. But, since the next dose 12 hours away was 5am I didn't wake up and take it until 11am. And then I started making my schedule 11 o'clock from then on. Do you think this screwed up the efficacy? Especially since within the first 48 hours I took three doses (once only combivir, twice combivir and viread)? I read RapidRod said that PEP is about 86% effective and you say my feelings are probably side effects. So, in conclusion I had a brief and low risk encounter and I've done everything I can to stop the infection. A negative result is expected. Thank you for the second opinion to confirm Andy's.

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2011, 02:43:58 PM »
Since you also say that the drugs suppress the virus does that mean I should request to take PEP longer? Also, does that mean that I could experience the ARS symptoms after PEP as if it were during the normal 22 day period?

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2011, 02:47:29 PM »
Also you say that its unlikely to experience ARS while undergoing PEP. But, if PEP isn't working doesn't that mean the virus isn't suppressed? I've heard that PEP works by stopping the multiplication of HIV virus in the body and hope that any infected cells die during the 28 days.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2011, 02:51:57 PM »
In your quest for more answers you're kind of mixing things up here. Let me just say that PEP is taken for 28 days.

Neither the presence nor the absence of symptoms will ever tell you anything accurately about your HIV status. Only and HIV specific test taken at the proper time will give you that answer. 
Andy Velez

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2011, 02:55:11 PM »
Did my few hours screw up my PEP though? Especially since it was during the critical first 72 hours? I'm afraid by delaying doses I left the virus become immune.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2011, 02:56:49 PM »
A) Don't fret over a few hours. However, this medicine is only for a month, and might prevent you from dealing with that irritating timetable indefinitely. You should try to be strict as possible, seeing as how it's only a month.

B) No. Longer PEP will not have any greater effect. One month is more than sufficient. Granted, some people take Truvada as an HIV preventative, and take it every day like a vitamin. The efficacy of that treatment strategy is controversial, however. Also expensive.

C) Methinks you overthink too much here. PEP has a STRONG history of effectively preventing HIV. Honestly, the less time you spend worrying over this, the more sane you are likely to remain.

Try focusing, if you must, on the extreme UN - likelihood that:

A) Your partner was HIV positive

B) Your partner had a high viral load

C) Your partner, given A and B, deposited infectious fluids into you

and

D) Those fluids found the appropriate receptor cells to infect

Now add PEP to that mix, where the virus AND your body's defenses are impacted to the point where HIV cannot replicate, cannot adhere to/infect a CD4 cell, and even if that happened, cannot reproduce.

You stand a greater chance of getting hit by a car crossing the street while you are lost in thought contemplating the very unlikely chance of an HIV infection over this incident.

*modified for clarity
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 02:58:44 PM by jkinatl2 »
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2011, 03:01:56 PM »
Thank you, I am sorry if I frustrated you in any bit with my worry. It's been hard to focus or even eat regularly since this incident. I guess the crux of your confidence that I will test negative lies in the fact that I was proactive and started PEP very early and that PEP is highly effective. I guess moreso since I am on a three-drug regimen :/ Thank you again. I can't help but worry this headache and mild fever is ARS, but your second opinion and follow up is appreciated.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2011, 03:21:56 PM »
Eat and do your schoolwork. Get to it!
Andy Velez

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2011, 03:31:27 PM »
lol I'm trying hard to focus with worry and headache. Thanks again for the help and very positive outlook that I will be negative. Do you have any tips to mitigate the side effects? Eat? Drink water?

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2011, 04:23:06 PM »
Drinking water is pretty much always a good idea to keep your system clean. Eat healthily.

And breathe. Whenever you find yourself tensing up take deep and slow breaths in and out. It never fails as a way of reducing tension. Really.
Andy Velez

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2011, 04:29:05 PM »
Okay. Im trying, really. Drinking lots of water and hoping you're right and its a negative. I'm just so stressed even though its a low risk (or very low risk?) its the fact I bled that scares me. Anyway, I'm doing better for now. Thank you again for the help. I guess no matter how many times you tell me you think it was low risk and I'll be negative I'm still worried :(.

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2011, 06:25:21 PM »
Okay, I know I am freaking out, but now I am definitely afraid I will test positive. After reading this thread http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=20872.0 where the only risk was brief "dipping" the guy became positive. Should I trust in PEP to save me??? Does this change your belief I will test negative? Please help me

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2011, 08:09:00 PM »
Okay, I know I am freaking out, but now I am definitely afraid I will test positive. After reading this thread http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=20872.0 where the only risk was brief "dipping" the guy became positive. Should I trust in PEP to save me??? Does this change your belief I will test negative? Please help me


No it does not. It does validate the caution we give people not to trawl the other forums for fuel to feed their fears.  Many times people either cannot recall their high risk activity or for a number of reasons they do not want to admit it. That's why patient report is notoriously unreliable.

In the other forums - the ones for HIV positive people - posters like the one you reference are handled with kid gloves. They are scared. Vulnerable. In shock. Many haven't begun to come to terns with their sexuality.  Granted there gave been egregious cases where people have been questioned over a blatant lie, but that doesn't happen often. I sure as hell don't want someone's suicide on my conscience because I pointed out their fallacy at the most inopportune time.

So especially in the forum for recently infected/recently tested persons, we try to offer non-critical and non-judgmental support when we can manage. Often, later - sometimes much later, more details surface that place everything into perspective. Drug use, particularly crystal meth. Alcohol blackouts. Or just self-loathing. And then there are posters who vanish as it becomes clear that they were not even really who they said they were, and were having a bit if sick fun with us.

Seen it all go down over the years. And none of the stories. Not one. Makes us change the assessments which, unlike semi-anonymous postings on a public forum, are based in scientific fact.

So short answer is no, my assessment does not change based on those stories. Not one iota.

This, ironically, seems to make me a much better fit for this forum than many of the others on this site.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2011, 08:24:38 PM »
Jkinatl2,

First thank you for bearing with me, I know I'm a nervous wreck. But, still despite this his story was a lower risk than mine since I had bleeding. Can you assure me that you've seen plenty of cases like mine that were negative? It's hard to reconcile this when I see his low risk and my same risk but with bleeding not turning into a positive :(. Does your faith lie in the fact I took PEP? Thanks again, I know I'm getting annoying.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 08:27:30 PM by collegekid »

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2011, 08:36:11 PM »
Indeed I have. Seriously, I've been doing this for upwards of seven years, maybe more (I lose track). Andy and Ann have been here about ten years. There is not a lot we have not seen come through these forums. Thankfully, only few who post here have actually ended up moving to the forums for people living with HIV.

I do nto think you will be one of them. You had a risk. Yes. No denying that. But given your PEP, I honestly think you will be fine. Those are some heavy duty powerful drugs you are on.



"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2011, 08:40:06 PM »
I wish I could be as confident as you are in that. I guess I'm just looking for reasons to worry: missing doses of PEP by a few hours, possibly getting a resistant virus, not taking it fast enough, pep not being 100% effective. Ugh, it's hard. Okay, I guess you are standing firmly by the fact I will test negative. That is reassuring. I'll try to calm down, but I can't make any promises--which is very evident given how much I've freaked out already. Thanks again. I've definitely learned my lesson and always played it safe before but this was an aggressive top. Didn't even use lube and tried to enter! That aggression and lack of protection is also what worries me. Anyway, I've learned to be more firm and aggressive on my own end to make sure this never happens again.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 08:55:37 PM by collegekid »

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2011, 09:43:14 PM »
That sounds like a great takeaway from this incident.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Ann

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2011, 07:24:55 AM »
Kid,

If you had bothered to read the Welcome Thread before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Quote

Do NOT use Private Messages to question other members about any transmission, testing or symptom issues. These issues must be discussed in the public forum. Misuse of the PM function in this manner will result in your PM privileges being removed without warning.


I have removed your PM privilege.

I also fully expect you to ultimately test negative.

Now go study. Don't use this as an excuse to flunk out of college. That would be stupid in the extreme.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2011, 10:16:46 AM »
Hi Ann,

I'm sorry for PMing you and not abiding by the rules. Thank you for taking the time to reiterate that I will be okay. Should I worry that this is now day five of my low grade fever? Still have faith in a negative? My diarrhea is still persisting as well.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 12:28:56 PM by collegekid »

Offline Ann

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2011, 01:41:37 PM »
Kid,

I still fully expect you to test negative.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2011, 06:07:37 PM »
Is the fever a result of the pep? I can't find anywhere that says that either Viread or Combivir causes fever. I'm getting more fearful since exactly at the 2 week mark I started getting my low grade fever, two oral ulcers, constant headache, dizziness, loss of appetite (haven't eaten more than half a meal or one meal per day for past few days) and diarrhea. I understand PEP can cause some of these, but not the fever or the oral ulcers. My fever is now constant at around 99.5 F for the past few days and isn't letting up. I don't really have chills or aches, but I do get cold easily.

Also, what worries me is that I was doing fine and not having any side effects to the medications. The first week, yes I did. But between the first and second I was doing great. Then at week two, I get the fever, headache, diarrhea, oral ulcers. It's too coincidental.

 I know you, Andy and Jkinatl2 have years and years of experience. But, I'm getting more afraid that I am the exception...

Lastly, I am trying to get in touch with the guy and he isn't responding which is a bad sign. And I keep seeing stories of one time receptive dipping cases turning into positives, which scares the hell out of me. On thebody.com one reader told Dr. Bob he only had 15 second of receptive anal and went positive.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 07:01:32 PM by collegekid »

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2011, 07:03:36 PM »
You need to stop indulging in surfing the web because all you are going to do it come up with more for your worst fears and all to no good purpose.

You're taking powerful drugs and the side effects vary from person to person. Absolutely nothing you are describing is in anyway suggestive of HIV. None of it.

You need to stop contact the guy. He's probably tired of hearing from you and frankly I don't blame him. He can't give you the answer you want. You're responsible for your own health. So you need to accept that you're going to have to wait for your test result because that's the only for real answer for you. You can make the waiting harder by driving yourself nutz or you can make a real effort to focus on other things in your life and get through the waiting more easily. Really.

Those stories about supposedly getting infected by 15 seconds of anal are like a lot of other hearsay, things which never hold up under careful examination. More to no good purpose as far as  you are concerned.

As for being afraid you are "the exception," every worried person who comes here thinks they are going to be the exception. And all but hardly more than a handful end up testing negative.
Andy Velez

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2011, 07:25:27 PM »
Andy, I know I have been worried sick and it shows and I am literally crying as I write this. I haven't been overbearing when reaching out (only reached out twice) and have not gotten any response. You say that the stories are hearsay, but I know that for me I have been nothing but fully honest and forthright on my exposure and symptoms. Likewise, what scares me is that the writer of the story I referenced is also singularly focused on the facts. The link is here: http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/SafeSex/Q196496.html if you are interested. All I know is that if a little bit of unprotected anal sex is enough, then isn't mine with bleeding and access to the bloodstream even more potently dangerous?

I will admit I'm breaking down. And I don't know how to stop.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2011, 07:39:37 PM »
OK, I hear you. But you know what, all of this speculating (and that's all it is) can't give you the answer you want. An answer that only your test can deliver.

So no matter have truthful and decent and whatever you've been, it comes down to you having to wait for a test result.

Like Ann I fully expect you to test negative. And that's all I have to say. And frankly I am not willing to continue this back and forth because there really is nothing new or more to say or do beyond waiting it out.
Andy Velez

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2011, 07:56:13 PM »
Andy I apologize if my worrisome behavior irritates you. I hope that ultimately you understand that I am just trying to process as much and do the best that I can to take care of myself. When you say to stop contacting him, I was trying to see if I could go in and get tested with him to see his status which would be very helpful in evaluating the risk.

I'll try me best to refrain from posting again in the near future. As of right now this is my only support group, and it looks like I've already worn it down, I'm sorry. Thank you again for the reassurance that I should be testing negative despite everything I am feeling and went through.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2011, 08:18:04 PM »
OK. I just don't have anything further to say. You have to wait it out which I know is very difficult even though we think you're going to come out of this ok.
Andy Velez

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2011, 09:00:40 PM »
Don't get me started on that junk science statistical study and the nefarious Dr Bob, much less the abysmal HIV transmission theory section on that other site. There's a concrete reason I have never, and will likely never post over there.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2011, 09:02:47 PM »
Jkinatl,

Of course I understand the statistics are junk. There is no way its only 3%. I was mainly concerned with the reader's story on how he got infected.

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #42 on: October 25, 2011, 09:19:11 PM »
Jkinatl,

Of course I understand the statistics are junk. There is no way its only 3%. I was mainly concerned with the reader's story on how he got infected.

No, the statistics are junk because the controls were fabricated. The authors admit it themselves.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2011, 09:21:27 PM »
So have all studies been fabricated? PEP studies?

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2011, 09:44:32 PM »
The study that explained the statistical likelihood of infection per incident is the one to which I referred. That one.

Also, again, don't get me started on that site in general or the inaccuracy of the advice offered there.

I have little interest in arguing the merits of other HIV sites. I am astonishingly proud of this one, as it depends upon - and most importantly updates - first tiered peer-reviewed science. THAT is what we've offered you. We are unable to give any meaningful psychological counseling. Given the structure of this part of the forum, where multiple people are not allowed to comment on one another's threads, it also does not function as a support forum.

PLEASE find someone to talk to, on campus or off, about your fears and anxieties. It's becoming obvious that this low risk event has escalated into a major issue with you - and one beyond the ability of this forum to manage.

We've given all the science we've got at this point. You must wait, get tested, then move on with your life.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #45 on: October 25, 2011, 09:54:03 PM »
I don't know who I can confide in unfortunately. I do have one follow up question I hope you can give some scientific facts on. I'm wondering if maybe some of the symptoms I have are symptomatic of another std such as gonorrhea or syphillis. If my partner had either of these, wouldn't it exponentially magnify my risk of becoming infected with hiv? Would PEP still protect me then? Should I go get tested for these and treat them while still on pep or is it too early to detect? I know I am being paranoid, but I want to know I covered all my bases. I don't know if you considered a concurrent syphillis or gonorrhea infection in my partner when you assessed the risk. Thanks!

Offline Ann

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #46 on: October 25, 2011, 10:00:57 PM »
Kid,

Yep, you're being paranoid in the extreme. You are so highly unlikely to end up poz over this. You probably have the flu - it's that time of year, after all. You don't even have a proper fever. There's a good chance that this is all a product of your anxiety - stress can make you ill.

I'm giving you a seven day time out. Being able to hang out on this website is obviously doing you no good at all. You should be studying. When you ultimately test negative, you'll kick yourself in the ass for wasting so much time and energy on this.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline c0llegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #47 on: November 08, 2011, 10:56:11 AM »
Hi,

First off I want to apologize as I know I shouldn't make multiple accounts, but for some reason I am still banned past the 7 day period assigned. It was helpful to take a break and it help psychologically, but some symptoms I have recently are worrying me.

Starting from 2 weeks past exposure until now (3 days post pep) I've been having a heavy head feeling, dizziness, nausea that ranges from mild to severe, and the worst constant headache/migraine I've ever had in my life

From 2 weeks past exposure for until now I've been having elevated temperatures that started at 101 went to 99.5 for about 10 days and now is around 99 consistently. Normally, my temperature is around 98 and runs a bit lower than the average, so these temperatures worry me.

From 2 weeks and three days past exposure for 7 days I had oral ulcers under my tongue

From 2 weeks past exposure and for 6 days I had loose stools and diarrhea and cramping

From 3 weeks post exposure until now I had swollen lymph nodes (so big in my throat I feel them when I eat) and in my groin

Symptoms that come and go: severe pain in my stomach (lower gut, right and left below rib cage), weird tingly feeling on my back, pain in my right back near my rib cage, pain in my thighs and groin, pain in right hip, pain in joints, sore muscles (haven't exercised though)

I am now 3 days post pep and have had slightly loose stool, still slightly raised temperature, heavy head feeling (although slightly better), and severe intermittent pain in my right back near rib cage and down to hip.

Are these ARS symptoms and does this show that PEP failed? Or is it a sign of a serious pep side effect (I took Viread and Combivir) that needs to get checked out? I don't have much financial resources and it is expensive to see a doctor.

Also, after reading: http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=38696.0
I am relieved but confused since the guy also had brief unprotected receptive anal sex and the risk was low to zero. So, maybe I really did blow this out of proportion? But my symptoms are worrying me and a zero risk seems a little low. :/

I hope I am not coming off as disrespectful of the rules, I just wasn't sure if a computer glitch didn't unban me. Thank you all for your help, I appreciate your advice especially since I am scared and can't afford to see a doctor every time I have these symptoms.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 11:04:35 AM by c0llegekid »

Offline Ann

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #48 on: November 08, 2011, 11:19:02 AM »
Kid,

I disabled your new account and fixed your original. Next time you have a problem logging in, send us an email. DO NOT create a new account again or you will be permanently banned.

The guy in the thread you linked to had INSERTIVE anal intercourse, not receptive. Unprotected receptive anal intercourse is MUCH more risky than insertive.

We considered your risk to be on the low side because - he did not ejaculate in you and the insertion was brief and also because you started PEP within 15 hours. You're unlikely to end up positive over this.

If you feel unwell, see a doctor. Nothing you mention sounds like seroconversion.

You are just going to have to wait it out until it's the appropriate time for you to test, which is six weeks post-PEP. A negative at that time will need to be confirmed at the three month post-PEP point.

If you continue to attempt to use this site as a place for your symptoms to be diagnosed, you will get another time out. Go see your doctor and discuss your concerns with him or her.

I fully expect you to test negative.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline collegekid

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Re: Partial Unprotected Receptive Anal with Bleeding and PEP
« Reply #49 on: November 08, 2011, 11:23:48 AM »
Ann,

Sorry I wasn't sure if email was appropriate since I accidentally PMed last time. The last thing I want to do is make any of your days more stressful and I promise to abide by the rules.

The link I posted had an updated post where the guy had receptive anal sex for 5 seconds which is what I was referring to. Regardless, it is good to know that these are not usual symptoms of seroconversion, although the headache and temperature are worrisome.

Lastly, is it okay for me to go get my wisdom teeth removed if I am waiting for my testing period? I don't want to expose anyone to my blood, even though I know the virus dies in contact to air.

Thank you again for your help.

 


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