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Author Topic: AIDS doesn't kill you!  (Read 4993 times)

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Offline ACinKC

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AIDS doesn't kill you!
« on: September 19, 2006, 09:45:18 AM »
According to ABC News...

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=2459962

A brief quote...

Sep 18, 2006 — WASHINGTON (Reuters) - More than a quarter of New Yorkers infected with the AIDS virus are now dying of other causes, researchers said on Monday.

An analysis of 68,669 New York City residents infected with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, found that of those who died between 1999 and 2004, 26.3 percent died of something other than HIV. That is a 32 percent increase from 1999, when just under 20 percent of HIV patients died of other causes.

Cocktails of drugs that suppress the virus have been credited with allowing HIV patients to lead near-normal lives, and once- or twice-a-day dosing now makes them more manageable.

Nonetheless, AIDS remains incurable and is always fatal in places where the drugs are not available — notably much of Africa.

Writing in the Annals of Internal Medicine, Judith Sackoff and colleagues at the New York Department of Health and Mental Hygiene said they found that 31 percent of HIV patients died because of substance abuse, close to 24 percent died of cardiovascular disease and 20 percent died of cancer unrelated to the virus.

"Physicians everywhere must remember that most of their HIV-infected patients will survive to develop the diseases that plague the rest of us," Dr. Judith Aberg of New York University wrote in a commentary.


I don't really know why this upsets me so much.  I suppose it's good news but at the same time I feel it somehow diminishes what we go through.  I feel like they are saying, "See its not that bad! It's like the flu, but different." (thanks for the quote Matty)

Frustrated,
Andrew
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Iggy

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2006, 09:50:36 AM »
.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 09:16:06 PM by Iggy »

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2006, 09:57:22 AM »
They say cardiovascular and cancer is killing us.... but my question to them is "how do they know that if I had a healthy immune system that I wouldn't have been able to fight these things off?  OR that the meds we take daily (which are NO FUCKING PICNIC!) is a contributor to either of these diseases."
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Iggy

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2006, 09:58:46 AM »
.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 09:15:26 PM by Iggy »

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2006, 10:00:44 AM »
The article should instead say: HIV REMAINS INCURABLE. I think the denialists will use it (i.e., twist it, skew it) for their agenda.  :'(

Sadly there is no by line, otherwise I would email the author to tell him his article sux
« Last Edit: September 19, 2006, 10:05:34 AM by allopathicholistic »

Offline Ann

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2006, 10:02:04 AM »
Hmm... sounds to me like this is another case of the numbers being presented in such a way to downplay life with hiv.

What I want to know is how many of that 24% would not have died of cardiovascular disease had they not had to take HAART?

How many of those who died of drug abuse might not have been abusing drugs to the point of death if they weren't dealing with the depression hiv brings to so many of our lives?

How many of those cancer deaths that weren't related to hiv had cancers related to taking highly toxic drugs for years on end?

I hate these cut and dried life is rosy takes on living with hiv. Sheesh.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention, Andrew.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline ademas

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2006, 10:04:31 AM »
They say cardiovascular and cancer is killing us.... but my question to them is "how do they know that if I had a healthy immune system that I wouldn't have been able to fight these things off?  OR that the meds we take daily (which are NO FUCKING PICNIC!) is a contributor to either of these diseases."

Exactly.  One way to tell, I suppose, would be to take the average age of death from this 25% and compare it to the average age of death from the general population (that succumbed to the same disease.)

And if 25% of the deaths are from other causes, aren't they saying that 75% of the deaths are still from AIDS?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2006, 10:13:43 AM by ademas »

Offline Cliff

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2006, 10:10:01 AM »
I wonder what HIV unrelated cancer deaths mean?  I always thought liver cancer was one the biggest killers of people with HIV now.  Given the impact of the meds on cancer and difficulties in treating HIV/HEP C, I personally would consider liver cancer to be HIV related.  It would also be nice to see the ages of the deaths.  If, as I would guess, the age of death from heart disease is much lower in people living with HIV than the general population, then it would seem odd to dismiss heart disease as HIV unrelated.

But I do see what they are trying to say, (at least with the comment towards the end).  Doctors (and patients) should consider the importance of other 'normal' health issues, because they can be just as deadly as HIV.

Offline libvet

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2006, 10:20:18 AM »
Yeah, but it wouldn't really matter what the article said, the denialists would try to skew it to their own advantage.  I've yet to come across a denialist online that was reasonable.  It probably has something to do with the mindset that allows them to convince themselves of a vast conspiracy by doctors, researchers, people with HIV, and caregivers regarding HIV.

As far as the article itself, it is no more or less than I expect from the mainstream corporate media.  To some extent they are correct in the article.  While they don't even mention the metabolic changes due HIV medications, it is a fact that we aren't dropping dead of classic HIV related illnesses as was common 10 or 15 years ago.  We are living long enough to experience the same kinds of things that you would expect in an aging demographic.

I don't think the intent was to diminish what we go through taking meds and sweating every single blood test and the expense and fear of losing one's health coverage, but I don't really expect they would go into that kind of depth.  They rarely do in anything. 

Michael

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2006, 10:27:59 AM »
Denialists are CRAZY! If they truly TRULY believe what they say, I am offering a needle FULL of my blood for them to try out!  They can bring their own needle and take it straight from my arm and put it into theirs. 

THEN we will see how dedicated they REALLY are!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Maestro

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2006, 10:32:54 AM »
Good thread.  I actually pointed before that my Uncles doctor has told him that he can live to 90 on his meds and doesn't need to do anything different.  While I understand the spirit of this message, I have a problem with the doctor telling him that.  My Uncle has interperted that to mean he doesn't need to eat well, or exercise, or take care of himself as the meds will do it all for him.

He also has kidney problems, osteoporosis, anemia...and I think these are all caused by the HAART.  Did the researchers take in to consideration problems caused by treating AIDS?  I don't really see how they can distinquish since the meds are a direct result of having HIV.

M

Offline bocker3

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2006, 10:37:24 AM »
Hi All,

I think the "denialists" are going to say and think what they want regardless what is said in the media.  Even if the story reflected all the stuff mentioned in this thread they would contort it to fit their agenda.  Statistics can almost always be presented in a way that can be used by both sides.
What I don't understand is why we can't take what is, in fact, 'good news' and be happy about it.  If approximately 25% of us are dying of "other than hiv/aids" isn't that good?  Yes, the heart disease may be linked to hiv, the cancer may be linked to hiv, but on the flip side -- I have certainly been making healthier decisions around my diet, etc since testing positive, so if I do eventually die of cardiac disease (like the majority of men on my dad's side), perhaps my status prolonged my life because I'm trying to be healthier!!  I've read on this forum and others that many folks have quit smoking in order to improve health, perhaps that has helped them avoid lung cancer.  People who aren't positive will NEVER understand what we go through, no matter what we or the media say -- I certainly didn't understand all this until I tested positive and I have a medical and public health background!
I am NOT trying to refute anything anyone has said -- you all make good and valid points, but there is a flip side and I, for one, need to take good, hopeful news and smile about it.  Could the article have been presented differently, yes, but I bet however it was presented we would have found something wrong with it.  Let's be happy that we have hope, even if it is less than we would like!  

Just something to think about!

Hugs to all,
Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline Iggy

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2006, 10:44:06 AM »
.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 09:13:54 PM by Iggy »

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2006, 10:47:10 AM »
I agree mike!  THAT is why this article bothers me!  It just makes it harder for me to communicate to the ones I love how hard it is sometimes.  Not ALL the time, but like yesterday, because of the meds, BAD brain fog all day.  Felt like someone wrapped a wet towel around my brain.
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline bocker3

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  • Posts: 3,458
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2006, 10:50:22 AM »
Hi Iggy,

I share your concern around a diminishing sense of urgency, especially in the US (we, on average, have a horribly short attention span), however I don't think the right way to combat that is to "deny" that do have good news, not fantastic, we are all cured,news, but good news, just the same.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline bocker3

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  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2006, 10:52:21 AM »
ACinKC,

I understand -- I have a negative partner (no denialist there) and he tries, but just can't understand my "bad" days --either the physical ones or the mental ones.  He does his best to be supportive, but he can't understand.  That is why I come here and stick close to the few poz friends I have here in Richmond.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2006, 10:55:10 AM »
Hi Iggy,

I share your concern around a diminishing sense of urgency, especially in the US (we, on average, have a horribly short attention span), however I don't think the right way to combat that is to "deny" that do have good news, not fantastic, we are all cured,news, but good news, just the same.

Mike

Good point Mike, thanks.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline AlanBama

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2006, 11:25:13 AM »
My cardiac problems will probably do me in someday....but why do I have cardiac problems?  Because I contracted bacterial endocarditis when I had no immune system, in the early 90's, that permanently damaged my heart muscle.

So I still attribute it to AIDS.

Articles such as this make it seem that AIDS is now quite manageable and treatable, and while my life is CERTAINLY much better now than it was 15 years ago, thanks to medical advances, it is still no picnic.   It aggravates me that they minimize the severity of it.   I think it sends out some bad messages.

Alan
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline Longislander

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2006, 12:06:54 PM »
Hmm, as someone new to all of this, and just returning from my Dr this morning, I find the overall news of the article to be cosistent with my doc. She wants me to quit smoking, get back to the gym, and eat healthier. All of this so I can help my body deal with HIV and eventually the meds. Apparantly the meds will cause their own havoc on my body, and the more I can do to not add to that, the better off I will be. My 1st doc told me I'll probably live to my 70's ( I'm 42 now), which is interesting, as no one on my dads side made 70!

I'll leave the political side of the article to those more in tune with that stuff, and just injest the positive side of it. lol
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
                                                 11/08 684/U/36%

Offline david25luvit

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2006, 01:09:32 PM »
AC....


                  AIDS killed my lover almost two years ago...so forgive me if I don't buy into this bullshit.
In a seven month period, David went from 173lbs sexy man to a whimpering 70lb child who's eye sockets
had sank so bad that when he cried his tears collected in a pool in his sockets.

                  I too am frustrated by such reports...so I pay absolutely no attention to them whatsoever
In Memory of
Raymond David McRae III
Nov. 25, 1972- Oct. 15, 2004
I miss him terribly..........

Offline MoltenStorm

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2006, 01:46:22 PM »
What they always taught us when HIV/AIDS was discussed, was that in reality, the virus does not kill you persay, but the OIs do. The virus just paved the way. Was that, in fact, false?

A slight technicality, I know, but it would make the article make more sense.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2006, 01:48:14 PM by MoltenStorm »
"Love is always patient and kind. It is never jealous. Love is never boastful nor conceited. It is never rude or selfish. It does not take offense and is not resentful. Love takes no pleasure in other people's sins, but delights in the truth. It is always ready to excuse, to trust, to hope, and to endure whatever comes." - 1 Corinthians 13:4-7, adaptation in A Walk To Remember

CD4: 555 / 29% / Undetectable - 7 Nov 2006
CD4: 555 / 29% / Undetectable - 5 Feb 2007

Offline ACinKC

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2006, 05:39:31 PM »
Self serving bump!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Moffie65

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  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2006, 06:17:43 PM »
AIDS HAS NEVER KILLED ANYONE!!!!!

Now all I want to know is what grant is this person trying to get that they went to the trouble of actually getting this shit published.  What Pharma company is lining the pockets of the scientists/medical people involved, and are they Republicans, or maybe poor Democrats, willing to publish absolute garbage in order to fund some Ka-Ka-Me-Me bullshit they are working on, but don't have the money to finish??????

Enquiring minds need to know.

This crap has been going on for the better part of 25 years now, so nobody should be surprised, just "ROYALLY PISSED OFF!"

Please make sure to register to vote in November, we need all the help we can get to rid our country of this current asshole administration that is promoting this kind of shit, just to line their pockets with Pharma money.

Nuff said.

In Shock and Awe!!!
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Moffie65

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2006, 06:31:48 PM »
Hey guys,

At the bottom of the ABC page, there is a "contact" icon, I clicked on it and sent this off right now!!! I encourage you all to do a like minded post to them if you feel so inclined.  They need to be called on their "sloppy" news publishing.


OK guys at ABC,

You took the time to post this very disturbing story that “Patients are no longer dying of AIDS”….. Please do me a favor and read this thread on the only completely owned and operated HIV/AIDS website on the internet.

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=4020.0

I think you will find a completely different view written by People Living with HIV/AIDS, than what is posted in your article, and please, please, nobody has ever died from AIDS, ever!  However, the medication is ruining my body on a daily basis, and if my heart holds out, I will celebrate my 60th birthday in January of 2007.  Miracle?  Probably, but I am looking forward to living long enough to keep crap like this out of the news and you guys have the responsibility to not promote crap, no mater what or who is publishing it.

Sincerely;
Tim Van Nattan
Executive Director
BorderLand AIDS Services Team, BLAST
« Last Edit: September 19, 2006, 08:58:02 PM by Moffie65 »
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline ACinKC

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  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2006, 06:42:12 PM »
Nice job Moffie.  Hope to see my now famous post splashed across Primetime or maybe 20/20!!!!  This is exactly why I posted this.  It just really pissed me off.  Felt belittled and daddy don't like that!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline Eldon

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  • Posts: 2,664
Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2006, 06:46:26 PM »
Moffie,

Please let us know what their response was from ABC. I'd love to hear their justification for publishing such crap.



Have the BEST Day!

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2006, 06:49:32 PM »
What they always taught us when HIV/AIDS was discussed, was that in reality, the virus does not kill you persay, but the OIs do. The virus just paved the way. Was that, in fact, false?

A slight technicality, I know, but it would make the article make more sense.

Molten: Food for thought: I did not have any OI's in the summer of 2005 ... I had 42 T cells and I was weak weak weak like I was going to pass out and kick the bucket. The report issued by the emergency room staff said "HIV positive man. Unexplained weakness" (They knew about the HIV only because I told them)

 ... In terms of OI's, I was tested (not that same day. later on) for CMV, TB, KS, hep, pneumonia, blah blah blah and every single OI test came back clean .... I had NO OI's. So, personally, based on all this I am inclined to think that HIV itself can kill even if OI's are absent. I do not know what the official answer is. If anyone does please post Thanks
« Last Edit: September 19, 2006, 07:37:05 PM by allopathicholistic »

Offline Longislander

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Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2006, 07:31:27 PM »
Moffie, check out your link in that post!! lol You may endup with the IRS man at your door!!
« Last Edit: September 19, 2006, 07:33:47 PM by Longislander »
infected 10/05 diagnosed 12-05
2/06   379/57000                    6/07 372/30500 25%   4/09 640/U/32% 
5/06   ?? /37000                     8/07 491/55000/24%    9/09 913/U/39%
8/06   349/9500 25%              11/07 515/68000/24     2/10 845/U/38%
9/06   507/16,000 30% !          2/08  516/116k/22%    7/10 906/80/39%
12/06 398/29000 26%             Start Atripla 3/08
3/07   402/80,000 29%            4/08  485/undet!/27
4/07   507/35,000 25%            7/08 625/UD/34%
                                                 11/08 684/U/36%

Offline Moffie65

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  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2006, 09:00:29 PM »
Thank you so much Long, I don't know why my computer does that but it will never happen again.  I will open a new window to get the correct address.

Corrected, and sent off to ABC.  Hopefully they haven't trashed it already.  If so, please send more guys.

In Love and Thanks.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Iggy

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  • Posts: 2,435
Re: AIDS doesn't kill you!
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2006, 09:06:44 PM »
.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 09:13:16 PM by Iggy »

 


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