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Author Topic: Am i infected? Insertive Oral Sex  (Read 8386 times)

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Offline samRion

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Am i infected? Insertive Oral Sex
« on: October 14, 2011, 12:27:52 AM »
Hi,

I am so worried that if i have the possibility to get HIV. On June 27th, I went to a prostitute and got an unprotected blow job from her. Although i have not felt any symptoms till now, i am so scared that i am infected by HIV as many other online resources stated that it is possible to have HIV infection though insertive blowjob. I just took a blood test for STD and HIV today. Hopefully my result will be negative coming out next week. I am really worried because it was my first time going to a prostitute. I am a Canadian and i found this resource from public health agency of Canada saying that there are few cases HIV inlfection though unprotected insertive oral sex. What do you think? Are they unproved ?

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/epiu-aepi/epi_update_may_04/13-eng.php
Thanks......

Sam

Offline samRion

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Re: Am i infected? Insertive Oral Sex
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2011, 12:30:24 AM »
Several studies have also explored the possibility of HIV transmission through unprotected insertive orogenital intercourse (insertive fellatio) or insertive oral-anal sex (insertive anilingus):

    In a prospective study of HIV infection among MSM in the Netherlands, five of 102 seroconverters (4.9%) may have been infected through insertive orogenital or oral-anal intercourse.10
    In an early cohort study of MSM, two of five cases of HIV seroconversion were attributed to insertive orogenital sex.12


Have you heard of these two studies??  Are they reliable ? Please tell me what do you think.......thanks a lot...

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Am i infected? Insertive Oral Sex
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2011, 02:02:41 AM »
I have indeed heard of them. They rely exclusively on patient report and interview post-infection, which has been proven to be highly unreliable.

Might I suggest the Page-Shafer studies? The Romero studies? They eliminate the bias by simply tracking serodiscordant couples through ten/five/two year periods of time who admit to using condoms for penetrative anal and vaginal sex, but not for oral sex. In the tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of sexual instances through the seventeen years of study, not a single patient was infected through oral sex.


No incident HIV infections among MSM who practice exclusively oral sex.
Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States

Oral Dis.   2006   May   ;12   (3):219-28 16700731   
Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update.
J   Campo , M A   Perea , J   Del Romero , J   Cano , V   Hernando , A   Bascones
Human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) and many other viruses can be isolated in blood and body fluids, including saliva, and can be transmitted by genital-genital and especially anal-genital sexual activity. The risk of transmission of HIV via oral sexual practices is very low. Unlike other mucosal areas of the body, the oral cavity appears to be an extremely uncommon transmission route for HIV. We present a review of available evidence on the oral-genital transmission of HIV and analyse the factors that act to protect oral tissues from infection, thereby reducing the risk of HIV transmission by oral sex. Among these factors we highlight the levels of HIV RNA in saliva, presence of fewer CD4+ target cells, presence of IgA antibodies in saliva, presence of other infections in the oral cavity and the endogenous salivary antiviral factors lysozyme, defensins, thrombospondin and secretory leucocyte protease inhibitor (SLPI). Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219-228.

http://www.aidsmap.com/en/news/2AF5DF5C-ECEF-4854-80BA-09F86B483A02.asp

http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAbstracts/102255339.html

AIDS:  Volume 16(17)  22 November 2002  pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men

Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan

Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.

The Romero study used male/female relationships almost exclusively, with either male or female partner positive. The viral loads varied widely, as did the treatment options (or lack thereof) during the ten years of the study.

The Page-Shafer "HOT" study used homosexual males with different partners, studied both receptive and insertive oral sex.

The abstract of the study is also here:

http://www.aegis.com/conferences/iac/2002/TuPeC4872.html

An updated abstract of the Romero study is in:

Oral Dis.   2006 May   ;12   (3):219-28 16700731

An earlier Page-Shafer study regarding oral HIv transmission:

Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men.
AIDS. 16(17):2350-2352, November 22, 2002.
Page-Shafer, Kimberly a,b; Shiboski, Caroline H b; Osmond, Dennis H c; Dilley, James d; McFarland, Willi e; Shiboski, Steve C c; Klausner, Jeffrey D e; Balls, Joyce a; Greenspan, Deborah b; Greenspan, John S b

Other relevant studies, many of which reference either/both Romero and/or Page-Shafer, among others:

http://www.aidsonline.com/pt/re/aids/fulltext.00002030-199904160-00021.htm;jsessionid=G1nGq7PY37yynzdYy7CHvpqRwHKzNFS7J3gPvGYzGKp6Tz2nvFdx!1330140564!181195629!8091!-1?nav=search&searchid=1&index=21&results=1&count=10

Note the methodology for the Page-Shafer and Romero studies, and how they differ significantly from earlier studies which relied on post-infection patient report. In my opinion, that methodology dramatically increases the validity of the report.

Studies which show the fallacy of relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to carefully controlled study insofar as HIV transmission risk is concerned:

Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117

Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;

Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Ann

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Re: Am i infected? Insertive Oral Sex
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2011, 06:38:12 AM »
Sam,

As Jonathan points out, patient report studies are highly unreliable. The operative phrase in those studies is "MAY have been". Well, they weren't.

Not one person has ever been PROVEN to have become infected through getting a blowjob and you are certainly not going to be the first. Test all you want, but don't be surprised by your NEGATIVE results.

Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

ALTHOUGH YOU DO NOT NEED TO TEST OVER A BLOWJOB, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline samRion

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  • Posts: 7
Re: Am i infected? Insertive Oral Sex
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2011, 06:58:27 AM »
i am so worried while still waiting my blood testing result. I regret having that experience......the anxiety has been controlled me for 3 months now because of ONLY a 10 mins blowjob...
I know the chance that i get HIV from it is extreme low or nonexist. But i just cannot control my mind to not thinking that i will be "lucky" one infected with HIV. Still have couple days to wait for the test result. Sorry for my English.

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Am i infected? Insertive Oral Sex
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2011, 07:05:19 AM »
Sam,

You're not going to test positive over a blowjob. No way, no how. Unless you've been having unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse you neglected to tell us about, you're worrying needlessly.

Getting a blowjob is absolutely NOT a risk for hiv infection. It is not low risk, it is NO RISK, regardless of what your guilt-riddled mind may be telling you.

You got your dick sucked. Get over it.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline samRion

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  • Posts: 7
Re: Am i infected? Insertive Oral Sex
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2011, 07:15:45 AM »
Thanks for reply so quick Ann.
I only had an unprotected blowjob form her and i did not have sex or other things with her. My Gum has been bleeding sometimes this week, and i remember i had night sweat couple of times 2 months ago.
Do they have anything connect to the symptom?

Thanks......

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Am i infected? Insertive Oral Sex
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2011, 07:22:33 AM »
Sam,

NO!!! If you feel unwell or are worried about your gums, see a doctor or dentist. Whatever is going on has NOTHING to do with hiv.

One more time, you did NOT have a risk for hiv infection. You got your dick sucked, now get over it.

If you read the Welcome Thread before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Quote

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.


Please consider yourself warned!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline samRion

  • Member
  • Posts: 7
Re: Am i infected? Insertive Oral Sex
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2011, 08:17:10 PM »
Ann, may I have name of the 10 years study regarding the no infection though insertive oral sex and some reliable studies please?

Offline jkinatl2

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  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: Am i infected? Insertive Oral Sex
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2011, 10:56:31 PM »
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=15891.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=2511.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=2244.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=12630.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=10457.0


http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=10310.msg127650#msg127650

The quantification we use at AIDSMEDS is based on three distinct and separate studies conducted over the course of two decades with serodiscordasnt couples. We do not rely on anecdotal evidence insofar as HIV transmission is concerned, especially not now, where the current state of the scientific and epidemiological art is as advanced as it is. With more people living longer and healthier lives, a large enough collection of serodiscordant couples has finally emerged to create blind studies where HIV transmission routes can be studied with scientific quantification.

Here are some of the  scientific findings.


No incident HIV infections among MSM who practice exclusively oral sex.
Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States

Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update
J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228

AIDS:  Volume 16(17)  22 November 2002  pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men

Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan

Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.

Studies which show the fallacy of relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to carefully controlled study insofar as HIV transmission risk is concerned:

Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117

Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;

Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.

HIV and saliva
An article from "The Molecules of HIV" (c) Dan Stowell
www.mcld.co.uk/hiv
Occasionally I'm asked about whether HIV is present in an HIV-positive person's saliva, and whether it carries a risk of transmission.
The short answer is that saliva virtually never carries any infectious HIV at all.
It does carry detectable "components" of HIV (such as viral RNA and proviral DNA), but these are not infectious on their own. The environment that saliva provides is far too harsh for infectious particles to remain intact and viable.
There are a number of possible mechanisms that have been suggested, which might explain why saliva seems to be so good at destroying HIV. Specific enzymes present in saliva may be important, or the effect of antibodies in saliva. Additionally, the saliva is "hypotonic" and has a tendency to disrupt any cells which may be floating around in it. It's pretty much certain that it's the combination of these factors that mean HIV is not transmitted in saliva.
It may seem strange that such a dangerous virus can't survive in something as "harmless" as saliva. In fact, saliva is a part of the body's natural defences against infection. Additionally, remember that the HIV virus is actually quite fragile.
More information:
Shugars DC, Sweet SP, Malamud D, Kazmi S, Page-Shafer K, Challacombe SJ (2002)
Saliva and inhibition of HIV-1 infection: molecular mechanisms.
Oral Diseases 8: 169-175 Suppl. 2 2002
Baron S, Poast J, Cloyd MW (1999)
Why is HIV rarely transmitted by oral secretions? Saliva can disrupt orally shed, infected leukocytes.
Archives of Internal Medicine 159 (3): 303-310

Source:

http://www.mcld.co.uk/hiv/?q=HIV%20and%20saliva



*edited to remove unrelated/obsolete content, and for formatting.


« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 11:03:18 PM by jkinatl2 »
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline samRion

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Re: Am i infected? Insertive Oral Sex
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2011, 11:33:13 PM »
I am still waiting my test result. I will post my result as soon as i get it. Hopefully i am fine.....
Feel anxious while waiting......

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Am i infected? Insertive Oral Sex
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2011, 12:53:22 AM »
So the links and quantification, useless?

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline samRion

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  • Posts: 7
Re: Am i infected? Insertive Oral Sex
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2011, 08:24:54 PM »
I just called my clinic for the test result. The HIV test came back negative. I really appreciated you guys help.
THANKS!

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Am i infected? Insertive Oral Sex
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2011, 06:56:25 AM »
Sam,

What a huge surprise.... NOT!

Remember to use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!!!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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