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Author Topic: Man Has Stroke; Wakes Up Gay  (Read 13264 times)

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Offline wolfter

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2011, 09:35:25 PM »
– Is someone having enough sex? I wonder why would he be crabby otherwise  ;D please follow below -
Good to hear - Some people are unaware of their sexuality what can I say. Stupid made up terms are supposed to be idiotic. Me and my friend used to play this game to classify some 'straight/straight acting individuals' and it was funny. Hmm.. this one is 'in-denial'.. that one is ' pre in-denial' , this one is straight acting etc. However, I have to say watch your tone and  especially that’s coming form someone who is a Grandfather of 5! Glad you said you are not to be model for others especially can't write with good manners at times! "Crap", "Idiotic", guess one word for you what a "....." (there are 5 dots fill in the gap. I wish I could have spelled out the whole word). If I could make myself clear, usage of these types words/tones doesn’t go too far with me. Stay the F away.


What an inapproriate response to one of our most respected and loved members here.  I certainly hope you post an apology or you'll lose a lot of credibility with the "seasoned" members. 
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline Since2005

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2011, 09:55:54 PM »
What an inapproriate response to one of our most respected and loved members here.  I certainly hope you post an apology or you'll lose a lot of credibility with the "seasoned" members.  

"Seasoned members"... Yaa try to gang up on me now!

I have responded the way I would have responded to anyone who just joined yesterday! I have mentioned times and times "craps" , " idiotic" and such tones and words are not to be used in forum conversation. To me, it never works! I have made myself clear on that and I have not used such words. Again, I can not help how people control their emotions when they write but I however have the right to respond.

You may not fall into that ‘seasoned category’ since you have joined last year I believe(?) not sure and just to be clear, speaking of 'seasoned members', I have tremendous respects for them and I have said that numerous times in very many fashions and showed my gratitudes towards their contributions to this forum.

YOU, please don't try to play it out! I am not having this conversation with YOU.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2011, 10:31:03 PM by Since2005 »

Offline wolfter

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2011, 10:01:13 PM »
I didn't read the new policies about the newest members dictating what words are "allowed" to be written.  Peace out while I wait for the other responses. :o
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline anniebc

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2011, 10:38:14 PM »


 I have mentioned times and times "craps" , " idiotic" and such tones and words are not to be used in forum conversation. To me, it never works! I have made myself clear on that and I have not used such words.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying so just help me out here, are you saying it's OK  to respond to a member like this?

guess one word for you what a "....." (there are 5 dots in here please fill in the gap. I wish I could have spelled out the whole word). If I could make myself clear, usage of these types words/tones doesn’t go too far with me. Stay the F... away.


So asking members to fill in the dot's and a putting in a Capital "F" is OK?

Jan
« Last Edit: September 24, 2011, 10:40:04 PM by anniebc »
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline Since2005

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2011, 10:49:32 PM »
No its not! I would say the least I have not started. I have not said the words but I may have implied those words. So, yea based on my advice, yes, I am wrong and I sure am sorry that I had to imply anything such. Not anyone can make you do anythiing so sure I take responsibility for that.

However, I will ALWAYS respond to anyne regardless of their status of the membership (without implying anywords) that I feel has demeaning tone.



Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2011, 11:30:30 PM »
speaking of policies

[cough]

We would like to remind everyone at this time to use the "Report to moderator" link rather than respond to inappropriate behaviour yourself. If you choose to send a moderator report, please know that the reports are strictly confidential and only seen by the moderators. If you wish to have feedback on any report you send, please say so in the report.

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=277.0
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline bocker3

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #56 on: September 24, 2011, 11:33:42 PM »
No its not! I would say the least I have not started. I have not said the words but I may have implied those words. So, yea based on my advice, yes, I am wrong and I sure am sorry that I had to imply anything such. Not anyone can make you do anythiing so sure I take responsibility for that.

However, I will ALWAYS respond to anyne regardless of their status of the membership (without implying anywords) that I feel has demeaning tone.




Listen sweetie,

I standby by calling the use of the term pre-in-denial as crap and idiotic.  Why, because, until you told me about how you made it up while judging others, it sounded like you thought it was a real thing.

The difference between what I said and your response to me (other than my english is easier to understand) is that I didn't call anyone a name or swear at anyone.  You called me an "asshole" and told me to "fuck off".  I'm a big boy, I can take it.  What I find interesting is that anytime someone has an issue with a post of yours, you get a little bit "on edge".  You like to claim that you are being provoked and won't have "that" conversation with anyone else -- but you have a few such entries through these forums.  It simply shows that you have a temper that you can't seem to control and/or your comprehension of the english language is as poor as your ability to write it.  You might want to talk to someone about the temper thing though -- it could get you in trouble some day.

Oh -- one more thing - please leave my grandkids out of any further of your diatribes.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline wolfter

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #57 on: September 24, 2011, 11:49:45 PM »
Thanks Mike, I couldn't figure out what A word was being eluded to.  Isn't that 6 dots? ;)
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #58 on: September 25, 2011, 02:25:07 AM »
Since2005, why do you throw a tantrum and reduce to name-calling when someone disagrees with you ? There is a way to disagree without getting personal. This is a public forum and there will be divergence in views/opinions, just deal with it. There is a very clear difference in saying that something a person wrote is ridiculous/stupid and calling someone names.

Bocker, I agree that being gay is more than sex. It is for me, definitely. I am saying that 'sexual attraction for the same sex' is what makes you gay- affection, enjoying compay of other gay men etc etc are added on top of that. If someone is not aroused by someone of the same sex at a purely physical level then affection, love etc is no different to a platonic kind of friendship. I feel deep affection and love for some of my girl-friends but I could not have sex with them.

If a man gets erections for (or is aroused by men, if he is impotent) other men and not for women (or not nearly as much for women), he is gay in my book- even if he marries a woman and never touches a man for his enitre life. It is that primal, I think.

And I agree that this 'Pre-in-denial' theory is plain ridiculous. After puberty, a person knows for certain to whom and how much they are sexually attracted. If they suppress it or deny it or whatever it is just that they are in denial. At that point, I also don't buy that someone can be 'wholly unaware' of their sexual inclinations.
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline GusInJune

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2011, 04:33:51 AM »
Lol @ everyone gettin' mad. If you're arguing then you've already lost. Didn't mean to start some flame war, but that usually starts with folks not knowing how to read properly, being unable to take a joke, or confusing fact with opinion, also factoring in a lack of life and serous need for socialization.
10/19/09 - Diagnosed +
6/28/11-Hospitalized 16 days Neurosyphillis, thrush CD4-70 8% VL >500k + Certfraxione, Bactrim DS
8/23/11 - Started Atripla
9/14/11 - CD4 340 18% VL 2980
9/27/11 - Eye surgery

Offline mecch

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2011, 06:42:54 AM »
Since said "pre in denial" was just a made up word.
Its not complicated to figure out who it would apply to.
"In denial" - you know something but you deny you know it.
Pre - in denial.  You don't know it yet, but you are destined to eventually know it, and then deny it.

I dont see where he said it is deeply thought out psychology.  

In Freudian psychology there was the idea of "repression" which was unconscious impulses and feelings.  So that is not "denial" - which in the Freudian scheme is "suppression".  And if you look at someone and say "he's gay but doesn't even know it, and won't accept when he knows it" - that would be "pre in denial"

But theres no proof for Freud's theories anyway. We all know that.

Hey Since, Yes you are right to notice some members here routinely use offensive or vulgar language, or are very aggressive and abrasive how they respond to others.  Don't respond in kind.  (Sotto voce!)
« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 06:49:14 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Ann

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2011, 09:04:28 AM »

"Crap", "Idiotic", guess one word for you what a "....." (there are 5 dots in here please fill in the gap. I wish I could have spelled out the whole word). If I could make myself clear, usage of these types words/tones doesn’t go too far with me. Stay the F... away.


Since, you don't get to use "a......" to get around the fact that we do not allow name-calling on this forum.


I have not said the words but I may have implied those words. So, yea based on my advice, yes, I am wrong and I sure am sorry that I had to imply anything such. Not anyone can make you do anythiing so sure I take responsibility for that.


Nice try. You didn't "imply" the words, you just left out some letters. You even said you "wish [you] could have spelled out the whole word". Your intent was pretty obvious.

Mike never called YOU "crap" or "idiotic" - he called your phrase "pre-in-denial" those words. Big difference. Huge, in fact.

A very intelligent, pillar-of-the-community type person can say or do things that are crap or idiotic, but that doesn't mean the person is crap or idiotic or that the person is being called those things. I hope you can see the difference.

Since, I don't want to see you name-calling again. You can criticise a person's actions or words all you want, but you cannot use those actions or words as a reason to call a person names. Got it? Good. Consider yourself warned.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2011, 09:50:42 AM »

Personally, I don't get how anyone could be unaware of their orientation -- but that is me and I'm very open to NOT being the model for all others.


Hmm.... it's a grey area for those who end up identifying as bi.

I agree with your statements about how being gay or straight is so much more than who you have sex with. It can be pretty confusing for an adolescent when you find yourself emotionally, romantically and sexually attracted to both sexes and it can take years to figure out what's going on.

Personally, I am rarely sexually attracted to anyone before I've gotten to know them and formed an emotional bond with them - in some cases, you might say "however fleeting". For myself, I can just as easily become emotionally and romantically attracted to women as I can men - the key is in their personality, not what is in their knickers.

I view people as people first and foremost (what I see first is a person, not a man or woman), but I don't know whether that view is a result of my attraction to both sexes or if the view caused the both-sex attraction. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? All I know is that my mind has worked that way ever since I can remember.

Because society mainly expects us to be straight, with the only other possible way of being is gay, it can take some time for a bi person to figure out what orientation you're going to land on.

Growing up, I had very strong romantic attractions to three of my girlfriends that I never acted on because I knew it wouldn't be accepted. I came very close with one (in sixth grade - I wanted to smother her in kisses), but she sensed it and started ignoring me and calling me a lezzie. It really hurt. During this time I also had romantic attractions to boys, but those I could freely act on, so obviously they were predominate.

The first time I openly formed an attraction to another woman was in college. I had gone to an all-women's bar with my sister (who is a lesbian). I'd gone to this bar with her many times before, but this time a woman sat down next to me while my sister was dancing and we started talking. My sister was gone for ages and we covered a lot of ground. I'd talked to quite a few women on these expeditions to that bar, but this one was the only one I "clicked" with.

We really hit it off - there was a real connection between us. We had so much in common and I felt like I was floating on air. She was funny and had a knock-out smile. (I can still see her to this day!) I was smitten and I think the feeling was mutual. Talk about somersaults - my stomach was doing them, in a nice way. Very nice way. :)

She was (I think) just leaning in for a kiss when my sister appeared behind her, shouting "that's my sister and she's straight!!!" I said "how the hell would you know?" I was mortified, and so was this other woman. She also seemed to be afraid of my sister, because she got the hell out of there. I was devastated. I went to that bar many times after, but never saw my dream woman again. :(

Anyway, for years I mainly pursued relationships with men, because it was easier. It took a long time for me to start re-exploring relationships with women. It took a long time for me to embrace being attracted to women - and men.

Sexual orientation is just not cut-and-dried when you're bi.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline LM

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2011, 01:08:30 PM »
Perfect post, Ann.

I actually found out I was attracted to guys while visiting New York, when I was 13. Freaking gay city, lol. Maybe if I had never gone there, I would be straight. Anyway, I was at the Virgin store, if I'm not mistaken, looking around the videos and stuff, and by mistake I ended up in the gay section. I was surprised, I had never seen that, and when I saw what it was about, I got really scared and just left there in a hurry. But I couldn't take that off my mind. By the time I was taking a shower at the hotel room, I was already thinking of having sex with other guys.

It was very difficult to accept that. First, because I had a Christian background, and I didn't know gays even existed. Sure, I had heard of them, in jokes, but I had never really imagined they existed. And finally, I was still attracted to girls. At least emotionally speaking. So it was all very confusing. I knew I was sexually attracted to men, but I didn't know if I was sexually attracted to girls. I looked at girls, they were beautiful and stuff, but to a shy teenager like me, they were like a nine-headed dragon ready to eat you up. They really intimidated me, so I really didn't know.

And of course, according to "society", if you get aroused by men, you're gay and that's it. So this "pressure" on me was difficult to handle. I still have gay friends who turn their eyes in disappointment when I say I'm going out with a girl. And then they say: "you're still doing that?". To some of them, I am just fooling myself going out with girls. So all the time I had to ask myself "what am I? Just gay, or do I like women as well?".

I was confused for a long time. Had my first time with men, and enjoyed it. Years later, had my first time with a women, and I was very shy, so it didn't work out very well. I could say I was aroused at the moment, but it didn't convince me I was attracted to girls. Finally, when I was around 22, I met my ex-girlfriend and we had sex. When we finished, I thought to myself "ok, so I am indeed sexually attracted to women as well". Only then I was convinced.

But it's still confusing at times. For example, there is a number of guys I know who would like to have a relationship with me. Well, maybe now with HIV they wouldn't be so willing, but I don't know. One of them, especially, is a great guy. He would surely be much better to me than my ex-girlfriends were. Yet, I don't have feelings for him. I like him, he's great, but no butterflies. What can I do?

My shrink jokes with me that I'm kinda masochistic, since I only end up liking people who hurt me in the end. But in a way, aren't we all? Once I told her that while I wanted to be monogamous in a relationship, I feared if I could really do it. I mean, could I be with one girl and not go out with any other guy, or even another girl, for the rest of my life, or vice-versa? So she put her hand on my shoulder and said: "Do you know how many people come to my office saying that? Welcome to the real world".

So we paint the world in straight, gay or even bi colors, but human sexuality is so complicated that to limit it to simple labels ignores its myriad subtleties in terms of behavior and feelings. That's why sometimes I wish I were simple, and be just your average straight boy, or as gay as I could be. And that's why I believe many potentially bisexual people usually repress their weaker side to make things more simple.

Offline mecch

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #64 on: September 25, 2011, 05:15:48 PM »
My shrink jokes with me that I'm kinda masochistic, since I only end up liking people who hurt me in the end. But in a way, aren't we all?

Nice post LM.

About the above, er, no.  I know lots of people who are not masochistic in matters of love.

Also, with experience, you get wise to the little games you or others play about yes, no, wanting the one who doesn't want you, or isn't very nice, and vice versa.  So once you see that, you can avoid setting traps for yourself, or stepping into those set by people with messed up intimacy issues.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Since2005

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #65 on: September 27, 2011, 02:25:50 AM »
Since, you don't get to use "a......" to get around the fact that we do not allow name-calling on this forum.
I did not try to get around, I  just did not want to go to the lowest by calling names out loud. It would be something calling someone ‘f you’ instead of ‘fuck you’ out loud. Here, I am making my points not calling names just to be clear. I said I did not want to go to the lowest but I did go lower.

Nice try. You didn't "imply" the words, you just left out some letters. You even said you "wish [you] could have spelled out the whole word". Your intent was pretty obvious.
 
When I said I implied I meant that ‘to mean it’. Yes, you are right about my intention which was to call names without spelling it out not due to “get around” rather not to be at my worst behavior. I hope you got my point.

Mike never called YOU "crap" or "idiotic" - he called your phrase "pre-in-denial" those words…

I do not agree to this. If someone’s behavior is idiotic then at that time it implies that the person is being an Idiot. A crapy person would talk like craps, stupidity behavior implies the fact that the person is being stupid. To me, that’s what those words imply. Regardless, anyone can find the demeaning tone by noticing the usage of these types of words. It is vulgar, its abrasive, its aggressive. There is no justification to use these words like stupidity, craps, idiotic etc to criticize anyone. I believe they who (luckily only handful of people) continuously use those words also should be criticized at least to acknowledge the fact these choice of words shows disrespects to other members. People who tend to use these types of words so often to criticize others would never get any respects from me now or ever unless they stop using these words. I believe one has to “earn” the respects from others. I am sure I have lost a lot respects for not following my own advice.

Consider yourself warned.
Fair enough. My intention was to call names. It’s not the word that was suggested earlier. Regardless, it does not matter as I did mean to call names. I did not spell out the words for whatever reasons but I did mean to say it. I have already admitted that I was wrong ( reply # 54). So, I do deserve that (not that you have asked for any opinions but I wanted to let you know where I stand).

Since, I don't want to see you name-calling again.
Neither do I. I acted out wrongly. I did bring myself to a lower level. I do not want to see myself there again.

I will try to follow what Meech has suggested..
 

Hey Since, Yes you are right to notice some members here routinely use offensive or vulgar language, or are very aggressive and abrasive how they respond to others.  Don't respond in kind.  (Sotto voce!)
If someone goes low I should not go lower. Calling someone names is out of my character, I was not able to control my emotions, and I acted out wrongly. I am sorry the way I behaved and I am apologizing to all the forum members for my action.

**Edited to correct spelling & grammar..


« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 03:35:04 AM by Since2005 »

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #66 on: September 27, 2011, 02:41:36 AM »
I did not try to get around, I  just did not want to go to the lowest by calling names out loud. It would be something calling someone ‘f you’ instead of ‘fuck you’ out loud. Here, I am making my points not calling names just to be clear. I said I did not want to go to the lowest but I did go lower.
When I said I implied I meant that ‘to mean it’. Yes, you are right about my intention which was to call names without spelling it out not due to “get around” rather not to be at my worst behavior. I hope you got my point.

I do not agree to this. If someone’s behavior is idiotic then at that time it implies that the person is being an Idiot. A crapy person would talk like craps, stupidity behavior implies the fact that the person is being stupid. To me, that’s what those words imply. Regardless, anyone can find the demeaning tone by noticing the usage of these types of words. It is vulgar, its abrasive, its aggressive. There is no justification to use these words like stupidity, craps, idiotic etc to criticize anyone. I believe they (luckily only handful of people) continuously uses those words also should be criticized at least to acknowledge the fact these choice of words shows disrespects to other members. People who tend to use these types of words so often to criticize others would never get any respects from me now or ever unless they stop using these words. I believe one has to “earn” the respects from others. I am sure I have lost a lot respects for not following my own advice.
Fair enough. My intention was to call names. It’s not the word that was suggested earlier. Regardless, it does not matter as I did mean to call names. I did not spell out the words for whatever reasons but I did mean to say it. I have already admitted that I was wrong ( reply # 54). So, I do deserve that (not that you have asked for any opinions but I wanted to let you know where I stand).
Neither do I. I acted out wrongly. I did bring myself to a lower level. I do not want to see myself there again.

I will try to follow what Meech has suggested..
  If someone goes low I should not go lower. Calling someone names is out of my character, I was not able to control my emotions, and I acted out wrongly. I am sorry the way I behaved and I am apologizing to all the forum members for my action.


Oh wow ! Since2005, do you launch into a diatribe with your door-knob if you can't peel potatoes with it ?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 02:45:34 AM by spacebarsux »
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Offline Since2005

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #67 on: September 27, 2011, 03:21:24 AM »
I stand by what I said (reply #65). Its pretty clear what my apology is about and what my intentions are going forward. I do not want to drag this any further. I believe I said my piece.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 07:48:00 PM by Since2005 »

Offline bocker3

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #68 on: September 28, 2011, 07:59:36 AM »
I do not agree to this. If someone’s behavior is idiotic then at that time it implies that the person is being an Idiot. A crapy person would talk like craps, stupidity behavior implies the fact that the person is being stupid. To me, that’s what those words imply. Regardless, anyone can find the demeaning tone by noticing the usage of these types of words. It is vulgar, its abrasive, its aggressive. There is no justification to use these words like stupidity, craps, idiotic etc to criticize anyone.

I probably should not waste my time with you, however, I'll try to reexplain what I said earlier and what Ann said to you.
I did not call you or your actions stupid -- I called your made-up word stupid.  If you personalize that, well, that is YOUR problem and not mine.  Step back and think about this.  I was talking about a word or phrase, NOT you, NOT your behavior. Although, your behavior around this discussion leaves quite a bit to be desired. 
I'm quite shocked that your argument with a moderator went unanswered, the fact remains, that I was speaking about a word -- I give very little thought to you, as a person.  Your inability to hold a rational discussion without feeling victimized is something I find tiring.

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Offline Ann

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #69 on: September 28, 2011, 08:22:42 AM »

I'm quite shocked that your argument with a moderator went unanswered,


I just get tired of beating my head on my keyboard all the time. Going by Since's response, anything further from me would most likely have been met with more excuses. Why talk to a brick wall? Life is too short to argue with someone who isn't listening.

At the end of the day, his warning still stands - despite whatever excuses he can come up with.

As you say, if he wants to be a victim, more power to him. Not my problem - or yours, for that matter.
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Offline Since2005

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #70 on: September 28, 2011, 08:39:52 PM »
Ann - Whether we agree or disagree, I have tremendous respects for you. I wanted to make this clear and I have and always will appreciate your support!!

Two months that I have been here, I have seen the same people keep using these words towards others. I could show dozens of them with examples just from last two months. So. for them,

this is what I said and this is where I stand -

Regardless, anyone can find the demeaning tone by noticing the usage of these types of words. It is vulgar, its abrasive, its aggressive. There is no justification to use these words like stupidity, craps, idiotic etc to criticize anyone. I believe they who (luckily only handful of people) continuously use those words also should be criticized at least to acknowledge the fact these choice of words shows disrespects to other members. People who tend to use these types of words so often to criticize others would never get any respects from me now or ever unless they stop using these words.

At least, I am adult enough to say sorry when I am wrong. Prove me wrong stop using such vulgar words!

With this, I am leaving this thread. I have wasted enough time on this.

Offline Raf

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #71 on: September 28, 2011, 09:54:52 PM »
This thread proves that the somersaults are bad even for the forum members  :D
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Offline LM

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #72 on: September 29, 2011, 12:34:07 PM »
I think I did a somersault in my sleep. My neck is killing me...

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #73 on: September 29, 2011, 01:33:20 PM »
I think I did a somersault in my sleep. My neck is killing me...

LOL

Thanks for that. This thread needed to lighten up. More LOL
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Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #74 on: September 30, 2011, 07:29:00 AM »

Personally, I am rarely sexually attracted to anyone before I've gotten to know them and formed an emotional bond with them - in some cases, you might say "however fleeting". For myself, I can just as easily become emotionally and romantically attracted to women as I can men - the key is in their personality, not what is in their knickers.


Ann, I agree with most of your post except this para, I feel ,is inaccurate in as much as it applies to bisexual men.

I agree that a lot of Bi, Bi-leaning women lay emphasis on the ‘person’s personality’ over the sex of the person. Maybe some bi men do, but I think they are very few and far between.

For most guys, gay, straight or bi, visual stimulus and pure physical craving for a man or a woman (depending on whether they are gay or straight) and the resulting urge to gratify that desire is deeply entrenched. It is innate and intrinsic. I would even go as far to say that it is biologically predetermined and fixed. That, in my opinion, shapes how gay or straight a man is.

The personality, affection for the person and everything else hinges on that very basic sexually driven nature. I honestly don’t believe that a truly bisexual man can be 100% monogamous with one or the other sex without making some sort of trade-off and exercising a degree of self-restraint.  

If you like chocolate and vanilla, you will never be wholly content with just one.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 07:35:05 AM by spacebarsux »
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #75 on: September 30, 2011, 07:38:10 AM »
Ann, I agree with most of your post except this para, I feel ,is inaccurate in as much as it applies to bisexual men.

I agree that a lot of Bi, Bi-leaning women lay emphasis on the ‘person’s personality’ over the sex of the person. Maybe some bi men do, but I think they are very few and far between.

For most guys, gay, straight or bi, visual stimulus and pure physical craving of a man or a woman (depending on whether they are gay or straight) and the resulting need and desire to gratify that desire is deeply entrenched. It is innate and intrinsic. I would even go as far to say that it is biologically predetermined and fixed. That, in my opinion, shapes how gay or straight a man is.

The personality, affection for the person and everything else hinges on that very basic sexually driven nature. I honestly don’t believe that a truly bisexual man can be 100% monogamous with one or the other sex without making some sort of trade-off and exercising a degree of self-restraint. 

If you like chocolate and vanilla, you will never be wholly content with just one.


I think you are trying to cast how you feel about sex onto everyone.  Frist -- Ann's post can't be "inaccurate", as she was stating her experience (note how she started off with "Personally,".
Second -- I am a gay man and I don't always need to satisfy my sexual needs in order to move on to personality and affection.  I went out with my partner for close to month before we ever had sex -- it actually did make our physical connection better that we had an emotional connection.  Now, don't get me wrong, I am quite capable of having a purely sexual encounter with a man -- so, you aren't "wrong" about that need.  However, I will say -- none of the relationships that I had in the past that began with a sexual encounter lasted very long -- but my partner and I have now been together for 21 years.  Not saying that is true for eveyone -- but it IS true for me.

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Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #76 on: September 30, 2011, 07:45:45 AM »
I think you are trying to cast how you feel about sex onto everyone.  Frist -- Ann's post can't be "inaccurate", as she was stating her experience (note how she started off with "Personally,".

Point taken. I meant to say that her experience applies more to women than men, in my opinion.

Edited to add: Mike, what I am casting on everyone regarding gay sexuality is that we're gay cos we prefer men sexually to women. We prefer cock to pussy. That's what makes us gay. Above all else. It is that basic.

It is not that we find men's personalities more appealing than women or something on those lines, if there even is such a distinction.

In my opinion, what caused you to 'fall in love' with your partner first and foremost is the fact that he is a man, the attractive personality comes next. it is a logical corollary.

This is my unbending view on male sexuality. lol
« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 08:03:10 AM by spacebarsux »
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Offline LM

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #77 on: September 30, 2011, 12:08:50 PM »
I honestly don’t believe that a truly bisexual man can be 100% monogamous with one or the other sex without making some sort of trade-off and exercising a degree of self-restraint.  

If you like chocolate and vanilla, you will never be wholly content with just one.


And I told that's bullshit. To be monogamous is difficult for everyone. We never stopped being attracted to other people and everyone needs to exercise self-restraint. Read again what I said about my conversation with my therapist. What you said about bisexual men is what straight men and women alike ask themselves all the time as well.

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #78 on: September 30, 2011, 03:34:51 PM »
And I told that's bullshit. To be monogamous is difficult for everyone. We never stopped being attracted to other people and everyone needs to exercise self-restraint. Read again what I said about my conversation with my therapist. What you said about bisexual men is what straight men and women alike ask themselves all the time as well.

Of course straight people exercise restraint. I agree with everything you say. Except that with bi guys there is an added dimension which cannot be discounted, whichever fancy way one argues it.

A straight man Will be attracted to many other women, but it will be easier because he is already with a woman. A bi man with a woman has to renounce cock forever if he chooses to be monogamoous to her. If you want to say there is no difference in these two scenarios then OK, but  that doesn't change my take on it- that the two situations aren't comparable.
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Offline mecch

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #79 on: September 30, 2011, 03:40:22 PM »
The topic is now intellectual somersaults about monogamy across the sexual orientation continuum?

I am pursuaded by observation and experience that all people have the same challenges and rewards as toward monogamous relationships. 

Also, I think very few gay guys are with their partners because he has "a dick."  The idea of a bi guy having to renounce his desire for "a dick" as the price to pay for staying faithful to his female partner strikes me as someone's very individual experience, not common at all.

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Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #80 on: September 30, 2011, 03:46:18 PM »

Also, I think very few gay guys are with their partners because he has "a dick." 

Sorry, this makes no sense. Then this majority of gay guys that you speak of can go with women since a 'dick' doesn't matter to them.

And by dick I dont mean just the penis. I mean anything that defines them as 'male'.
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #81 on: September 30, 2011, 03:49:25 PM »
Point taken. I meant to say that her experience applies more to women than men, in my opinion.

Edited to add: Mike, what I am casting on everyone regarding gay sexuality is that we're gay cos we prefer men sexually to women. We prefer cock to pussy. That's what makes us gay. Above all else. It is that basic.

It is not that we find men's personalities more appealing than women or something on those lines, if there even is such a distinction.

In my opinion, what caused you to 'fall in love' with your partner first and foremost is the fact that he is a man, the attractive personality comes next. it is a logical corollary.

This is my unbending view on male sexuality. lol


Well, it can be your unbending OPINION -- I'll respect that.  If you fall in love with a cock instead of a person, fine -- but that isn't me.  I didn't fall in love with a cock -- it wasn't that "basic" for me.  I am attracted to men, true -- but I fall in love with a person -- perhaps it is splitting hairs, but I don't think so.  I've been attracted to many men, have had sex with, um, a "few" -- but I haven't fallen in love with many at all.  So, I don't buy into the theory that you are proposing.  I am not gay because I prefer men sexually -- I am gay because I am attracted to men -- that would hold true whether or not I could have sex or not.  Sex is not how I define myself (although, I do like sex, I won't lie)
Perhaps that is your reality -- but it is not mine.

So -- please, I will respect your opinion -- but don't try and put my experiences down by connecting them to your opinion -- it simply does not match my ACTUAL experience.

Mike
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Offline mecch

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #82 on: September 30, 2011, 03:49:44 PM »
And by dick I dont mean just the penis. I mean anything that defines them as 'male'.

OK then, if that is what you meant.  That's not what you first said.  I thought I read - oh what a sacrifice a bi has to make to be with a woman cause he won't get anymore cock.
Well a straight guy with a woman won't get any OTHER pussy.  I don't get the difference here.
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Offline mecch

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #83 on: September 30, 2011, 03:51:11 PM »
 If you fall in love with a cock instead of a person, fine -- but that isn't me.  I didn't fall in love with a cock -- it wasn't that "basic" for me.  I am attracted to men, true -- but I fall in love with a person -- perhaps it is splitting hairs, but I don't think so.
See, Bocker read your post the same way I did. 
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #84 on: September 30, 2011, 03:53:17 PM »
And by dick I dont mean just the penis. I mean anything that defines them as 'male'.

Well, now you seem to be slipping away from what you have been saying all along - that one is gay because they have sex with men.  Now you are saying it is because they are attracted to a "male".  I agree with your newer view.  And by attracted, I don't mean, sexual attraction -- I mean attraction.  If you can't understand that distinction, then there is no need to further this discussion, as we will never be able to understand each other.

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Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #85 on: September 30, 2011, 04:07:57 PM »
Well, it can be your unbending OPINION -- I'll respect that.  If you fall in love with a cock instead of a person, fine -- but that isn't me.  I didn't fall in love with a cock -- it wasn't that "basic" for me.  I am attracted to men, true -- but I fall in love with a person -- perhaps it is splitting hairs, but I don't think so.  I've been attracted to many men, have had sex with, um, a "few" -- but I haven't fallen in love with many at all.  So, I don't buy into the theory that you are proposing.  I am not gay because I prefer men sexually -- I am gay because I am attracted to men -- that would hold true whether or not I could have sex or not.  Sex is not how I define myself (although, I do like sex, I won't lie)
Perhaps that is your reality -- but it is not mine.

So -- please, I will respect your opinion -- but don't try and put my experiences down by connecting them to your opinion -- it simply does not match my ACTUAL experience.

Mike

Well, now you seem to be slipping away from what you have been saying all along - that one is gay because they have sex with men.  Now you are saying it is because they are attracted to a "male".  I agree with your newer view.  And by attracted, I don't mean, sexual attraction -- I mean attraction.  If you can't understand that distinction, then there is no need to further this discussion, as we will never be able to understand each other.

Mike

I've been misunderstood or I haven't been very good at putting my point across.

What I have been saying all along is that what makes someone gay first and foremost is that we prefer men over women sexually (I think that is the same thing as being attracted to men or a major component of it, at the very least). I do not mean that one gets into relationships with men primarily for sex, or the cock size or whatever being the driving force behind it. That is not what's I meant.

All of us prefer men to women. We fall in love with a man and not with a woman and that makes us gay. And I do think it comes down to sex at a basic level because if it were not that then why aren't you falling in love with a woman?

 I am not saying sex is the 'main ingredient' or the 'driving force' or even the 'main reason' that anyone gets into a relationship with someone from the same sex. But it is the root of it, and in that sense basic.

At the root of it a gay man wants to be intimate with other men emotionally and sexually (which are obviously linked). A gay man will be sexually aroused by other men (erection or not or whatever) and not by women (or not nearly as much).

If some one says that they get hard-ons for women and want to be intimate with them and not with men then they are not gay.

If you think attraction is a broader and more sophisticated term than sexual arousal for the same sex then that's fine. But I think that attraction stems from sexual arousal for the same sex, in the first place- or at the very minimum is a an important component of attraction. If you think it were not, then why don't gay men fall in love with women? Because gay men are sexually attracted to other men, first and foremost, and not women.

And I never suggested that you or  anyone gets into a relationship only for the sex.  I didn't either. If sex were such a driving factor for me I'd prefer being a single gay man. lol.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 04:22:29 PM by spacebarsux »
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Offline mecch

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #86 on: September 30, 2011, 04:17:34 PM »
I thought you were making points about bisexuals.
A group who are probably the least focused on the importance of their loved ones being of a certain gender.
Yes gays want guys. Lesbians want women. Straights want the opposite sex.
Where is this going?
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Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #87 on: September 30, 2011, 04:27:21 PM »
I thought you were making points about bisexuals.
A group who are probably the least focused on the importance of their loved ones being of a certain gender.
Yes gays want guys. Lesbians want women. Straights want the opposite sex.
Where is this going?

I was challenging the notion of 'least importance of their loved ones being of a certain gender' as being overly simplistic and wildly inaccurate in as far as it concerned men-in response to Ann's and LM's post.

I was then separately addressing Mike's post on gay sexuality and how I think a person is defined gay first and foremost by virtue of the fact that the person is sexually attracted to a member of the same sex and not so much of the opposite sex. And that attraction for personality et all comes later. I am not talking about why people get into relationships but rather what makes them gay in the first place.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 04:42:12 PM by spacebarsux »
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Offline LM

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #88 on: September 30, 2011, 07:59:33 PM »
spacebarsux, you shouldn't take your own experience as an example for bisexuals. If you can't be monogamous, because you'll always crave for the other sex, don't think that's how all bisexuals are. It's offending and only contributes to stereotypes.

Offline Raf

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #89 on: September 30, 2011, 08:29:27 PM »
My opinion is that bisexuals that do somersaults are not monogamous
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Offline LM

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #90 on: September 30, 2011, 09:45:41 PM »
My opinion is that bisexuals that do somersaults are not monogamous

What about those that do somersaults in their sleep? That doesn't count... does it?

Offline Raf

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #91 on: September 30, 2011, 09:56:38 PM »
What about those that do somersaults in their sleep? That doesn't count... does it?

Well....Maybe they are monogamous. As you've said, they have enough dealing with their neck, let alone dealing with multiple partners/relationships  :D
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Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #92 on: October 01, 2011, 01:09:27 AM »
spacebarsux, you shouldn't take your own experience as an example for bisexuals. If you can't be monogamous, because you'll always crave for the other sex, don't think that's how all bisexuals are. It's offending and only contributes to stereotypes.

I never said I can't or bisexual men cannot or are incapable of being monogamous, I said it comes at a higher personal cost or sacrifice. If you feel it is no different to the self-restraint a straight man exercises by not being with other women then that's good on you. 

And I certainly see no reason to mince any words in stating my opinion on the subject because it may offend some overly sensitive bisexuals.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 01:30:35 AM by spacebarsux »
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Offline mecch

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #93 on: October 01, 2011, 04:32:03 AM »
I never said I can't or bisexual men cannot or are incapable of being monogamous, I said it comes at a higher personal cost or sacrifice. If you feel it is no different to the self-restraint a straight man exercises by not being with other women then that's good on you.  

And I certainly see no reason to mince any words in stating my opinion on the subject because it may offend some overly sensitive bisexuals.

Space, this thread has got you all worked up.  This is the third time I've noticed in the discussion that you are doing somersaults explaining, defending, refining, walking-back, clarifying points most of us aren't really following.   Also there you are using negatives, and double negatives. 
I never said I cannot.
If you feel it is no different
exercises by not being
see no reason to mince

What is it about the topic that gets your panties in such a bunch?

Or, just occurred to me, is English your mother tongue?

(Oh, sorry, can't resist - so you are a gay guy who won't mince....    words.   )
Leaving it to someone else to unwrap "overly sensitive bisexuals."
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 04:36:44 AM by mecch »
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Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #94 on: October 01, 2011, 05:08:13 AM »

What is it about the topic that gets your panties in such a bunch?

Or, just occurred to me, is English your mother tongue?


What really gets my panties in a bunch are patronising and 'waanabe forum moderators' who feel they have the right to toss their smarmy pearls of wisdom down at us ordinary plebeians because they are perched high up on the Swiss Alps.
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline mecch

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #95 on: October 01, 2011, 05:15:19 AM »
I have heard similar comebacks before so there is probably a grain of truth and in any event they don't push my buttons.

Also, what about my question. (Not that you have to answer.)  Why are these fine points so important to you.  
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 05:17:40 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #96 on: October 01, 2011, 05:38:37 AM »
I have heard similar comebacks before so there is probably a grain of truth and in any event they don't push my buttons.

Also, what about my question. (Not that you have to answer.)  Why are these fine points so important to you.  

 I was merely trying to explain my views and opinions on male sexuality and male bi-sexuality based on my experiences as well as a great deal of research I did for an article I wrote on the very connected subject of 'Perceptions of Male Sexuality in South Asia."
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline LM

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #97 on: October 01, 2011, 09:11:10 AM »
I was merely trying to explain my views and opinions on male sexuality and male bi-sexuality based on my experiences as well as a great deal of research I did for an article I wrote on the very connected subject of 'Perceptions of Male Sexuality in South Asia."

You're trying to explain how "we" feel by your theories on male sexuality. Fact is, it includes a lot of bullshit, as noted by others, but you don't seem to take that well.

Or maybe these theories work for South Asians. You gotta start somewhere...

Offline bocker3

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #98 on: October 01, 2011, 10:11:36 AM »
I was merely trying to explain my views and opinions on male sexuality and male bi-sexuality based on my experiences as well as a great deal of research I did for an article I wrote on the very connected subject of 'Perceptions of Male Sexuality in South Asia."

You are, of course, entitled to your opinions and views, but what I see you doing in this thread is arguing against and trying to "disprove" the actual experiences of others using your opinions.  You are trying, intentionally or not, to cast your opinions as facts that apply to all.  I think that is why you are getting the pushback you are seeing here.

I don't recall if you are gay or bi-sexual and it really doesn't matter -- but trying to tell someone else, particularly someone of a different orientation than yourself, what their motivations are or what may be "more difficult" for them is simply bound to upset others -- hopefully you can understand that.

So -- state your opinions, be willing to debate, ask questions, but don't try and argue with someone's actual experience.

M
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Offline hope_for_a_cure

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Re: Beware of doing somersaults
« Reply #99 on: October 01, 2011, 10:20:02 AM »
I think the guy who did the somersault really just wanted a little bit of attention and to find a way to 'blame' his sexual preference on something other than his deep down desire to be with another man. 

I fell off the top bunk of my bunkbed when I was 5 years old and hit my head really hard... when I woke up I was able to immediately play Bach's Two-Part Invention #8 without sight reading!  Later that day when the pain was gone I was only able to play Mary Had a Little Lamb in C major. 

 


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