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Author Topic: What do we give up?  (Read 2405 times)

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Offline Grinch

  • Member
  • Posts: 325
What do we give up?
« on: September 17, 2006, 11:00:15 AM »
Every month or so there appears a thread that blames GW Bush because there is still a problem with HIV.
These posts get heated and turn into name calling contests. I honestly don't get it.
I'd like to do a little exercise to see if I can figure out why so many people blame the President, and what they would do in his place.

  Lets start with the assumption that President <Insert your name here> has a finite budget, and must adhere to the one mission the US government was tasked with. Provide for the welfare and common defense of the country.  Lets also assume you can not raise taxes any more. You also can't change the tax system (Although that's exactly what I'd do if made King for a day).

  Unlike real world, we'll also say what ever budget you propose will be approved by congress.  What ever laws you ask for will be written as you meant them to be and also passed by congress. It is not permissible to say "I'd end the war and spend all that money on HIV"  Most of our deficit is coming from the war.

  Sticking to those rules how would you solve all of our problems?

  This is not the thread to get on a soap box and scream for your cause, this is a thread to exchange ideas in a calm and thoughtful manner.
We are a fairly diverse group with one thing in common that should unite us, instead we seem to be very polarized about the one subject in politics that really effects us.  I really want to figure out why.


Moderators:  If this turns into a nonproductive shouting match please lock it.  I'll give up and shut up.

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,973
Re: What do we give up?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2006, 11:03:42 AM »
Oh I give up!
 ::)

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,705
Re: What do we give up?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2006, 11:23:37 AM »


  Ever since that asshole Lincoln took over the US has gone into the gutter...

  If he would have addressed the HIV issue then we would prolly have a cure...

  Just nickel and diming....  that's my two cents!
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Iggy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,435
Re: What do we give up?
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2006, 11:33:41 AM »
.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 09:25:15 PM by Iggy »

Offline Grinch

  • Member
  • Posts: 325
Re: What do we give up?
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2006, 11:44:28 AM »
My solution would be to mandate a fund to provide Meds for those that can not afford them. Eligibility is simple.  Do you need meds?  If so how much income do you have based on tax returns? How much of your medication is covered by insurance. You'd still have to pay if you're capable, but no one would do without meds. Ever.

  I would also increase spending on aids awareness programs.

  I would offer tax incentives to big Pharma, to provide low cost meds and to continue developing new and improved meds.
Where would my money come from?  I'd make cuts in endowment for the arts and public radio.  Sorry folks but aids is more important than entertainment.  In my household entertainment would be the first thing cut if I didn't have the money for meds.

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,973
Re: What do we give up?
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2006, 01:23:01 PM »
You make my hair hurt.

Offline Grinch

  • Member
  • Posts: 325
Re: What do we give up?
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2006, 01:38:53 PM »
Go ahead and lock it please moderators.

Dachshund and iggy,  thanks for the reminder of why I stopped participating here.

  If it's not drama, name calling or the mass stroking of our E-peen's we can't participate here.

Could some one please point me to a Poz community forum not dominated by a few overly loud and closed minded folks that belittle anyone that has the courage to think for themselves or question?

Offline Cliff

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,645
Re: What do we give up?
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2006, 01:46:17 PM »
I think some of your assumptions are too restrictive.  The President can (and this one has) change the tax codes and raise taxes (he just raised mine with the tax increases on Americans living abroad).  With that in mind, I would:

1.  Not have gone to war in Iraq (this was in his direct control and thus another President could have chosen a different option), which would bring $400 billion back into the government (and counting).

2.  I would have NOT touched the inheritance tax.  The primary beneficiaries are extremely wealthy families (not farmers), who gained their wealth through the stability and opportunities provided for by a well structured economy.  They need to continue to pick up their share of the tab.

3.  I would cut taxes (similar to what Bush did) for those in the middle-class to lower middle class brackets, but kept the tax rates the same for the upper middle incomes and high incomes.  Growth in income and wealth has been exaggerated at the top and cutting taxes for those who already earn a greater share of the wealth and income in this country is not necessary.

4.  I would not have increased homeland security's budget by the amount Bush has.  It's money blown away by bureaucratic organizations who only crave budget increases but aren't necessarily using the money to make us more secure.

5.  I would have kept the military budget stable.

6.  I would have opened up additional areas for oil drilling and raised royalty fees on minerals extracted on federal land.

7.  I would have put forth a plan to increase reliance on nuclear power, including starting a quasi-governmental organization to construct and operate nuclear plants.  With the promise to take the company public to recoup the cost to the public.

8.  I would have passed a law to mandate health insurance coverage for employees working at least 15 hours a week, and additional taxes for employees not covered.  

9.  I would have expanded Medicare/Medicaid to cover anyone who is diagnosed with a major illness but does not have private health coverage (HIV, cancer, heart disease, diabetes).  I would have raised premiums on Medicare/Medicaid by 1% for both employer and employee.

10.  I would have passed a law mandating that employees are required to sign-up for health insurance coverage or be required to pay an additional Medicaid tax of up to 3% of their salary, depending on their income.

11.  I would have cut corporate tax rates by 1%, for companies deemed to be in high job growth sectors (IT, Healthcare, pharms, biotech, professional services, etc..).

probably wouldn't get much of this through Congress, but when you dream, dream big...

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,973
Re: What do we give up?
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2006, 01:54:41 PM »
People who don't have access to meds already have to follow your criteria based on proof of income or lack thereof.

Cutting funds for the Arts and Public Radio is ridiculous on it's face. How about cutting the defense budget or tax cuts to the top one per cent?

Why deny Iggles his opinion....just because he doesn't agree with you?

No need to lock the thread because it will soon fall off the page due to lack of interest.

Put me on ignore if you don't like what I say
« Last Edit: September 17, 2006, 02:09:22 PM by Dachshund »

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,973
Re: What do we give up?
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2006, 02:01:39 PM »
Go ahead and lock it please moderators.

Dachshund and iggy,  thanks for the reminder of why I stopped participating here.

  If it's not drama, name calling or the mass stroking of our E-peen's we can't participate here.

Could some one please point me to a Poz community forum not dominated by a few overly loud and closed minded folks that belittle anyone that has the courage to think for themselves or question?


......just follow the yellowbrick road

[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline Terry

  • Member
  • Posts: 339
  • 7/13/82 Infected
Re: What do we give up?
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2006, 08:31:09 PM »
 ::)

I vote Iggy, for President and Cliff as First lady.  Heh, Heh, Heh.

 ::)



Offline Iggy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,435
Re: What do we give up?
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2006, 08:36:16 PM »
.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 09:22:59 PM by Iggy »

Offline ACinKC

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,994
  • Bring it VIRUS! #2 Ranked In-crowd Member!
Re: What do we give up?
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2006, 10:19:41 PM »
I blame BUSH for everything!  The man is the worst thing to happen to the free world in over 30 years!!

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline tetao1984

  • member
  • Posts: 1
  • Don't Tempt The Mortals
Re: What do we give up?
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2006, 11:11:23 PM »
Ok so you want us to prove why bush is bad, but we can't undo the tax shit bush started, but ok it's your challenge and I'll go with it because it's a really great idea.

1. All aids meds prices would be Federally negotiated with the big Pharma companies. B. It may make more sense to just allow this for all meds through the medicare program and the saved money to be spent on other hiv related health care costs such as #3 below.

2. Since the FDA streamlines all HIV meds, saving huge costs for the pharma companies, i would make all aids meds generic after 10-15 years creating an incentive for new meds to be created in a timely fashion. Also at this point most first-line regimes would fall into this timeline,  cutting huge costs for all begining meds.

3. National healthcare for all with hiv, uniform in each state regardless of income level or having private insurance. From the cost saving in 1B.

4. i would take the state management of ryan white away, some states MN, OR, IA, NY, do a great job with the money, the rest fuck with it, and don't provide a decent level of care to those who live in those states often forcing people with hiv out to the other states that provide proper services. This is mostly due to state level political buracracy bullshit. I don't know for sure it would solve the problem but it does need to be addressed somehow. but number #3 should take care of most of this problem.

5. Any hiv medical research in anyway funded by public money, must be freely shareable to all drug companies, and the public sector. Similar to a BSD or maybe even a GPL license for you computer geeks. Kinda like what the Gates Foundation is doing.

6. I would fire every single employee of the FDA, CDC, and our liasions with WHO/UNAIDS and start from scratch, they are causing a large part of our problems not just for HIV positive but all americans. All FDA employees need to be fully independent of the private sector, all drug trial data needs to be freely available and not just the ones they do for FDA approval, all inhouse data needs to be made available, and all meetings must be public and made available online.

7. I would overhaul patent and copyright laws, Patents for medical testing & Drugs need to have short time limits if allowed at all. Same goes for patenting human genomes, plant genomes and all naturally occuring organisms, Patents are for intelectually discovered and engineered creations, not a finders keepers game. I think the emphasis is on short term 10-15 years of exclusivity and then public domain. Allowing for the incentive to find yet limiting the potential of the harmfull effects of Supply & Demand issues.

 8. Come up with more ideas
« Last Edit: September 17, 2006, 11:25:09 PM by tetao1984 »

Offline aztecan

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,399
  • 29 years positive, 57 years a pain in the butt
Re: What do we give up?
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2006, 11:09:57 AM »
Hmmmm, I think Cliff and tetao1984 both have come up with interesting ideas.

I'm not entirely convinced about the corporate tax incentive, Cliff, or the turning over of Ryan White to the feds, Tetao, but they are interesting suggeestions.

I don't blame Bush for HIV. I do blame Reagan for not responding more quickly, but that's another story (from another generation.)

I don't like Bush. I don't like his abstinence-only crap or what he has tried to make other nations do to receive U.S. money (like push marriage and monogamy rather than condoms.)

But he is now a lame duck. What I am looking at is the November elections and what they may or may not bring via the House and Senate.

But, that's just me.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline david25luvit

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,409
  • Member since March 2005
Re: What do we give up?
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2006, 11:54:12 AM »
And let's not forget Bush is ready to throw out the Geneva Convention....
Lame duck or not.........the man is a menace
I vote we tar and feather him back to Texas...
just my opinion.................
In Memory of
Raymond David McRae III
Nov. 25, 1972- Oct. 15, 2004
I miss him terribly..........

Offline J.R.E.

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,217
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: What do we give up?
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2006, 08:35:10 AM »
And let's not forget Bush is ready to throw out the Geneva Convention....
Lame duck or not.........the man is a menace
I vote we tar and feather him back to Texas...
just my opinion.................


 ;D  Lets do one step better.... Send him back to New Haven, Cconneticut, and leave Texas to the real Texans !! :o


Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Online Andy Velez

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 24,906
Re: What do we give up?
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2006, 09:22:15 AM »
Just as a side comment re cutting money for the arts..... The monies for the arts have been cut consistently for years under Republican congresses.  What you're missing in the equation is 1) the cuts are intended to censor the arts re subject matter and 2) a shortsightedness about arts as a luxury.

Even if one doesn't agree that arts are essential to a healthy, thriving culture, the amounts spent by the government are more than returned by the jobs created, the income generated through audience attendance and many other businesses which depend on the arts to generate income, the value as a part of student education, etc.

So the arts way more than pay for themselves even if you consider them merely a "luxury."

Andy Velez

 


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